The Land of Milk and Honey

by lowetideedm

You may also like

4 8 votes
Article Rating
Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

79 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
OriginalPouzar

One thing that Toby Salmelainen mentioned last week and Kalle Larsson today, its impossible to get in to Russia to do any scouting these days.

OriginalPouzar

Kalle Larsson on with Stauff today. An informative conversation – some good info on the entire player development team (6-7 people report to Larsson), the mental performance coach (distinct from their mental health professions), etc. – also their interplay with player procurement, their work with the Bako coaching staff, etc.

maudite

Dach is another added onto deal acquisitions worth including.

I’ve found that aspect of his deals intriguing. Those higher picks that don’t quite land as top 6 clear options have a history of taking a bit longer to redefine games into mid to bottom 6 effective players. Picking those 2 plus speed, physical with some scoring touch as throw-ins is savy. Like what are the odds the 31st overall puck that is centerpiece of deal even ends up as good as 2021 62 overall kirby dach or 2016 21st overall max jones?

Last edited 17 hours ago by maudite
dulock

This is important to remember. The Oilers don’t really need a first-round pick so much as they need what it represents. They need 21-27 year olds that can contribute substantially, cheaply and outperform their contract number.

danny

I think under a systems coach like Babcock, the paradigm of mid level players shifts from needing to outperform their contracts, to just plain old outscoring.

Any players that commit and execute Babs system, and give up less than they get, will be how success is measured. Whether that’s 30 pts, or 60, the gf/ga will be tell.

Last edited 13 hours ago by danny
godot10

Babcock is pretty religious about handedness.

Yet people keep putting Savoie on the left side, and Howard on the right. I will be surprised if Babcock rolls this way.

Babcock plays four lines. That means Nugent-Hopkins or Samanski as one of the centres. Trent Frederic is NOT a centre. He is not remotely suited to what Babcock expects from a centre. Frederic will have enough trouble finding a spot in the top twelve on the wing, since there are far more reliable left shot forwards available to Babcock. One would be putting Frederic behind the eight ball again trying him out at centre.

Quinn Hutson is a Hutson, and a right shot forward. I half expect him to steal somebodies job. There is no reason he cannot jump over the lefties Frederic, Jones, Dach, Janmark, and Joseph. Those lefties are not high bars.

For the Oilers to play four lines, I think that means Nugent-Hopkins and Hyman have to anchor the third line. And Dickenson the fourth.

Babcock has to take everyone out of their comfort zones in order to make the Oilers play sound systematic hockey. I will be surprised if the deployment is not different from previous seasons.

Ditto for the defense.

I do not understand why people are expecting more of the same.

Scungilli Slushy

There are a couple of reasons Hutson isn’t likely to jump one of the lefties on your list. One, he is not a good skater at the NHL level, Chaulk says ‘straight legged’, not enough to offset that he is not tall and is light by NHL standards. Another is that Chaulk said he does not battle hard defensively. Not to mention the other than Dach those guys are NHL players, Hutson isn’t there yet. Hutson has a decent scoring touch, but so does the much bigger and tougher Dach who has an NHL season worth of games in already

Reja

What about this Owen Michaels is he a centre? If Owen shows well on the farm is there a possibility he gets called-up.

cowboy bill

Yes. He’s a right shot center, there’s actually plenty of positive talk about him.

Scungilli Slushy

He might, but I don’t consider him as a realistic helpful player this season. He’s not a high end talent, so I imagine at least a season in the A will be needed. As LT always says, high end skill players (especially forwards) are the ones that are far more likely to get to the NHL early, and if they don’t there’s a problem. The rest take longer

Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR

I for one can’t wait to see some “out of the box” thinking when it comes to deployment. I’d love to see a third line built around Nuge and Hyman.

LMHF#1

Whether or not someone can read Hutson is very quickly becoming a test of “hockey eyes or not” for me.

Reja

They already had the Centre who they traded for Howard. Maybe it’s a good thing they’re not putting Howard in a position to succeed. The Leo 18 million contract with his teammate Cutter asking the same has shook the strategy of G.M’s not seen since free agency. You’ll see ELC now get blocked more unless you’re willing to dole out huge chunks of your cap money to 20-21 year-old. Also this may change the signing date of ELC contracts, teams may wait a year before giving a mid to late 1st rounder or any other pick a ELC that first year in the organization. The Leo contract is going to change the landscape of the NHL not scene since the changes made to free agency.

cowboy bill

Ducks may need to shed some salary. Oilers might be able to take advantage.

Last edited 21 hours ago by cowboy bill
OriginalPouzar

Spender Stastney plus Marjala (or similar) for Ryan P.

Vatrano is not a contact teams are looking to take on.

cowboy bill

That’s interesting because I was thinking of Ryan Poeling also but was thinking more along the lines of a second round pick as the acquisition cost.

Last edited 18 hours ago by cowboy bill
OriginalPouzar

By allowing Howard the privellage of developing his game in the proper league, they have 100% set him up to reach his ceiling. Great development arc to this point.

Reja

High end skilled smaller sized forwards don’t spend a year in the AHL at age 21-22. If he was a bigger player or a centre it’s a different kettle of fish. I would think Ike was told to work on certain things by K.K. With a new coach in Babcock it’s probably a 45-55% chance that Howard makes the team and even less of a chance in top 6. Will Mike go with a 45 second P-2 or start PP-2 if Leon Connor or both coming off a long shift. If Ike even makes the team and the answer is no for top-6 and PP-2. Tell me what exactly is the Iceman going to do that an old Babcock vet like Lazar can’t do more effectively.

Scungilli Slushy

They aren’t similar players but Savoie did fine with little PP just doing what he was supposed to. Howard is a better scorer, so if he can play reliably enough and have a good enough C he could contribute some in the top 9. It’s hard to see the roster construction from here with a new coach, but Babcock in Hyman’s words helped establish The Laughs current talent. Howard is not going to look like an alien to him

I won’t be surprised if he plays as Godot says all 4 lines more evenly, meaning Howard wouldn’t be with Dickinson who is probably going to play with wingers that can support going against any comp to free up air for the top 2 lines

Reja

It’s a 84 game schedule. Will 2 smaller forwards be able to hack the Big D on most teams now? The Panthers are even more filthy . I see a return to toughness no way do I see the Hurricanes surviving the Panthers in a 7 game bout. The move is to trade Howard while he still has some value for some functional toughness a Podkolzin type with a shorter fuse a Kostin with skill.

OriginalPouzar

Savoie and Howard will be just fine. There are numerous successful smaller forwards.

These guys are even that small – they aren’t Nathan Gerbe out there.

godot10

If the Oilers have to worry about the Panthers, the season will have been a success.

Reja

Everyone is going to get thumped on by Panthers Gudas-Hathaway-Tkachuk-Bennett-Ekbald-Marchand the team toughness will rub off off on everyone. Tampa bay will load up players so will other teams. I would think Clattenburg passes Howard as our number 1 prospect.

OriginalPouzar

Clattenburg worked his way down the depth chart upon reassignment this past season – playing on the 4th line behind ECHL call-ups and then not able to get in to the AHL playoff lineup once cleared to play. Last we saw he was getting hurt in development camp and in a walking boot!

Clattenburg has the raw skills to play in the NHL upon development but he needs to flip his current trend – he needs to (1) let himself develop and (2) find a way to stay on the ice.

Bill

Martin St. Louis must have been an anomaly.

Reja

Yes he was did ever see his thighs in shorts while he was golfing they’re like tree trucks. Sam goes for Theoren Fleury-Marchand-Debrincat These players are few and far between.

Bill

I have no idea about the shorts/thighs thing, what I was trying to point out was St. Louis spent his age 22 year mostly in the AHL.
For all the bull and bluster we all fire away in opinion, it’s just opinion. We have no idea what Howard will or will not accomplish this upcoming season. Maybe he comes in and pots 35 out of nowhere or maybe he just cannot do the job and is shipped down to the AHL or is used as trade fodder.
Nobody knew St. Louis was going to morph into what he became either. We’ll see what Howard can do in time.

Reja

You never know who’s going to make it. Unlike us there’s people making well over 6 figure salaries to find that diamond in the rough. Hell if we’re wishing uptown a star let Colton Dach turn into a Clarke Gillies with Max Jones being our Charlie Simmer

Fibonacci

He was the definition.

Bill

The definition of what exactly?

My initial response was to Reja saying that “High end skilled smaller forwards don’t spend a year in the AHL at 21-22.” St. Louis did. And there was no one on hell’s half acre that said he was high end back then.
Howard could pull off something similar or maybe he doesn’t.
I am not comparing them in skill, drive or anything other than it might be plausible that Howard does play in Bakersfield this year and blows the doors off down the road, or maybe he does it this year.

Last edited 15 hours ago by Bill
OriginalPouzar

Perhaps one is over-valuing exactly what this player is at this point in his career. My goodness, this isn’t a top 5 pick, he was drafted 31st, it wasn’t long ago that was a second round pick and, when the Oilers came in the league it was mid 2nd round.

His game clearly needed development. He asked Chaulk to help develop certain areas of his game and they worked to do exactly that.

You don’t know where Babcock plans on using Howard – Babcock is not shy on using young players up the lineup.

I will say this, without the development that Howard did in his overall game, there would be a MUCH less chance that he could play Babcock’s team.

Reja

We traded our best prospect by a country mile who Jackson went out of his way to secure after talking to his good buddy Hunter. Dale is arguably the best Coach probably in all amateur hockey. Dale also happens to be the Brother of die-hard Oiler Dave Hunter who was tasked at shutting down the opposition best centres as an Oiler. When Dale talks about prospects you listen. This might be a sleepy ass tuesday trade for you but it’s not for me.

OriginalPouzar

They traded their best prospect to acquire their best prospect.

What the off was the point of that dribble?

Reja

There’s a pyramid in hockey small skilled wingers are at the bottom corners. Tough sob centres like messier are at the top with all around sob like Denis Potvin to the left of him with Lidstrom to the right. The point is Bowman needs to start winning trade after trade if we are to make it to the final. A lot can change in a few years as I seen a dynasty ripped apart within in 2 years. Who knows in 2 years from now we could see us wandering in the desert like Toronto has been for 60 years. Unfortunately we don’t live as long as Noah anymore.

Scungilli Slushy

Godot you’ve mentioned Babcocks preference for handedness, but given the Oilers have been allergic to having enough appropriate RS players, that will impact usage. At least until Bowman gets the players to support that preference

fireantz

So play Savoie RW not left. Play Howard LW. If you need a guy to play a guy on his off wing try Podz who’s game is more on the wall or net front power and less sniper

OriginalPouzar

Quinn Hutson is a Hutson, and a right shot forward. I half expect him to steal somebodies job. There is no reason he cannot jump over the lefties Frederic, Jones, Dach, Janmark, and Joseph. Those lefties are not high bars.

Based on what other than his brothers and his name?

His coach 10 days ago talked about how he doesn’t work as hard in the defensive zone as he does the offensive zone – not sure that’s a Babcock trait.

Reja

You never know with a new coaches. It looks like Joseph is a gimme to make the team especially with our dreadful P.K. Hopefully that diamond shaped strategy is dropped off at the greyhound station by Ralph Klein’s henchman. That was the ugliest PK that Oilers have ever had with the personal they were using.

jimrickett123

Interesting post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Last edited 9 hours ago by jimrickett123
barry.moore23

Oh damn I thought you were going to say “The land of the ice and snow with the midnight sun and the hot springs glow”. 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OtzJtp-EM

OriginalPouzar

Any road, the way I see it the biggest hurdle to retaining McDavid long term is finding replacements for the key veteran forwards who are aging out. Matt Savoie has taken over for the Nuge on the top line, will Mike Babcock continue to roll that way? What about Howard on the Draisaitl line? That’s the right thing to do, you know. Bowman needs to steal a player and right soon.

Savoie seems like the Nuge replacement in pretty much all areas – top 6 winger but versatile, PK and, shit, he seems to have the skill-set for the Nuge zone-entry plus other role on the PP.

I think Howard will fit georgeously with Drai but the issue there is Howard should play left wing and is Podz in that spot? Given that, I wouldn’t mind Howard on McDavid’s left wing with Savoie on Drai’s right wing.

DevilsLettuce

While I enjoy Savoie’s development 5×5, Nuge is still easily the better player for the Nuge role on the PP as he is a PP witch that we’ve all seen is sorely is missed when not available.

Scungilli Slushy

I agree at this point, but if Savoie shows he can distribute to the right place close enough to Nuge (that being Nuge’s witchiness), being right shot adds another threat off the left wall. Won’t happen immediately or at all

OriginalPouzar

Of course, zero chance Nuge gets moved off PP1 – this is in due course.

usuallyunusual

If Nuge plays on the third line then him on the pp splits up 3 lines which could impact the pp setup.

I think it’s likely we see some shifts in pp strategies. Maybe that’s a quicker change from pp one. Maybe Nuge and hyman come off early or could be pp2 actually gets time.

I also think it’s likely zone entries and in zone responsibilities are different under the new staff which could also affect the players involved.

OriginalPouzar

I fully expect there to be a shift in PP usage to some extent but I don’t think that starts with taking Nuge off PP1.

Also, I think Babcock will be looking for a fourth line that he can put out after a PP and that will be able to play against the opposition’s top players.

Ekholmsbeard. Formerly brobergstan

podkolzin was predominantly a right winger until he arrived in edmonton.

he played RW in the ahl for abby and rw in the khl.

OriginalPouzar

Perhaps him playing RW was part of the problem?

OriginalPouzar

What would that look like? Something like Ike Howard and a second-round pick for Kaapo Kakko and a legit prospect one year away from the NHL might do it, but these things tend to involve less famous players. I think Matt Poitras of the Boston Bruins is a worthy target. Shouldn’t cost much.

Maybe Howard himself is a steal?

That deal takes away essentially ALL of the Oilers cap space this season – puts them in a tough spot for even a single injury.

What do the Oilers trade away to get Poitras – presuming they don’t trade to waive, that means three of Janmark/Jones/Joseph/Samanski/Howard are off the opening team.

Fuhr and Lowething in Vegreville

No dink-ness intended at all, I know nothing about Poitras so I’m totally ignorant to what he brings but a quick check on boxcars, pedigree and recent history, other than being only 22 he seems kind of underwhelming, what would be bring that Lazar doesn’t? Lazar could be had for nothing not money and not very much at that of we are looking for a RHC?

OriginalPouzar

I listed the 5 players current fighting for 3 forward roster spots (which would be two with an add).

I agree that Jones and Janmark are likely the odd men out to start (Stauff alluding to Janny maybe not being healthy).

cowboy bill

Shouldn’t cost much, they could send Howard to the Bruins for Poitras.

OriginalPouzar

We know that not even you would be in favour of that.

cowboy bill

What? You no longer take me seriously?

Reja

He thinks you’re funny in a Henry Hill GoodFellas way.

Louis Levasseur

It feels like a “cake and eat it too” scenario. We want to win, so we trade away picks and prospects for the likes of Ekholm, Walman, Murphy, Dickenson, etc., but we also lament the fact that our pipeline is pretty empty. Personally, I love the draft and prospects, but I care little about that at this stage of the arc. I realize that at some point in the future the chickens ate coming home to roost, but I accept that.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Personally, I love the draft and prospects, but I care little about that at this stage of the arc.

Same here. I think this is a key distinction lost on many.

You can’t have a pipeline full of blue chip prospects and be a perennial contender. They’re at odds given the way capital is exchanged in a salary cap league.

That said, drafting almost becomes more of a key; need to find some late round gems to prop up the farm and ease the cap pressure on the big team when a guy pops.

The other half of it, discussed by our host, is to win trades, and ideally fleece a GM here and there. Send away a fading vet before their performance outweighs their reputation and get a prospect and young/useful player back. Rinse, repeate.

The Gernat+ for Maroon trade was exceptional. Too bad they didn’t cash in on the other end of the deal, value was lost and it negatively impacted the team. A similar transaction sequence in principle if not age range is MPS for Perron, who then begat Klinkhammer (warm body) and the 16OV in a stacked draft (le sigh). MPS was struggling hard, but DP quickly became one of my favourites to don the jersey. Had things worked out and he turned into Joel Eriksson Ek (as rumoured) that would have been a staggeringly efficient trade tree that would have set up the team for a decade plus. Alas.

Louis Levasseur

I ssume all 32 GMs and their front offices are are pretty in tune with what is going on and the intell on all players is detailed, so kind of hard to expect your team’s GM to fleece another team’s GM. Sure you can win trades. Sometimes it’s a win for both teams, or sometimes someone doesn’t turn out like expected. However I think any trade is 50-50. I’m old enough to remember the Sam Pollock, Glen Sather fleecings that used to happen, but I think front offices are way more sophisticated today

OriginalPouzar

How about the Kane for Podkolzin fleecing?

I mean, they traded a 4th for Podz and then re-couped that exact 4th in exchange for Kane.

MushedPeas

And yet I’m positive that with better management from 2015 on the Oilers could have done exactly that – continue to grow their own while being contenders nearly this whole time. The unnecessary wastage and loss of value so great, throughout, that having much of any of that back would profoundly impact the roster today, and probably have meant more silver on the shelf.

Oh well.

Reja

We had 2 allstar 1st line centres with 1 allstar point magnet D locked up for 12 years plus. Maggie the Monkey could have rounded out the team to 3-4 Cups. Instead we have retreads Peter-Holland-Stan that were lured to Edmonton by wine-woman-song. Meanwhile there’s currently 3 G.M’s from the Oilers regime that learned from the master Sather yet we hire over the hill Holland and Bowman that still has Hawks stink on him. The G.M of the year should be our coach Billy was one hell of an Oiler player so was Grier-Staios. Bowman has 3 years left to win a Cup if at that time we don’t have number 6 fire his ass and bring in an Oiler player from yesteryear.

OriginalPouzar

The GM job Glen Sather had as an Oiler in the 80s has so little resemblance to the job the current GM has to do.

The Avs had Nathan MacKinnon plus Mikko Rantanen plus Cale Makar and their two GMs over the least decade were able to build one Cup Champion as the exception to year after year after year of playoff disappointment.

Yes, the one championship reigns supreme but the first statement above is not reality.

verite

What negative impact from sending away “draft picks and prospects”?
Really?
The OIlers should have 3 Stanley Cups by now if not for inadequate goaltending and the incessant failures of Nurse. That is obvious to every Oiler supporter, if intellectual honesty counts for anything.
Bowman can never be forgiven for losing Broberg and Holloway.

“draft picks and prospets” have limited present value in any expected value sense.

And Chiarelli was a greater cause of agony over the McDavid era than any traded draft pick.

The present is all.

Spartacus

‘struth.

Fibonacci

Nothing clears the mind like an impending hanging.

Spartacus

It should be noted that when one hangs out with one’s wang out, it keeps everyone clear.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

The OIlers should have 3 Stanley Cups by now if not for inadequate goaltending and the incessant failures of Nurse. That is obvious to every Oiler supporter, if intellectual honesty counts for anything.

Thank you verdud, for being the sole arbiter of the truth and the way for all of us intellectual lightweights who cannot perceive a shred of nuance. It’s too bad none of us have the mettle to make a case by numbers to take out bias.

Bowman can never be forgiven for losing Broberg and Holloway.

Certainly. Holland and (to a lesser extent) Jackson had no role in that debacle. Let any culpability be permanently expunged from their records.

The present is all.

Might as well sell the farm club and give up the rights to the prospects for an AI vending machine. You make it sound like we only have one year to set the stage so McDavid extends his contract.

Such odd takes, time and time again over the years, binary positions that rarely turn out to be true.

Reja

This is bang on. I would also add a coach willing to except Bennett-Tkachuk-running around clocking people with very little push back from K.K.

Fibonacci

Janson Duench
@reporterJD

Incredibly excited for this next step in my writing/reporting journey. I’ve moved to Edmonton to cover the EdmontonOilers for The Athletic.

Fibonacci

Is a Carleton grad who was covering the Soo Greyhounds for the Sault Star.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

That article was skimming the surface with a telescope.

I sure hope he has some investigative chops and knows how to suss out the underlying context to explain how situations pan out in the first place. And likely/potential implications.

Last edited 22 hours ago by BornInAGretzkyJersey
Spartacus

From the Soo and straight into the stew.

This should be interesting for him.

I wonder how much engagement he had in Sault St. Marie… he may wish for less.

Spartacus

Good scoop, Jimmy!

I like that you posted some Oilers content that didn’t have a negative skew.

You okay?

Brantford Boy

Oh it’s there… make no mistake… just squint a little more.

rev.hans

It’s about time.
I look forward to reading Duench. I hope we get to hear him on-air with you LT. I missed the DNB spots.

79
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x