Dylan Holloway spoke to Oilers media yesterday, partly about his injury and his wrist surgeries: “there’s still a little bit of complications with the full range of motion, but you don’t really need it too much for hockey. As long as I can shoot and take a (one-timer) I’m fine.” Hand injuries are tough, especially for skilled men like Holloway. He seemed to have things under control late in the AHL regular season (1-8-9 in final seven games) and playoffs (2-2-4 in five games). Holloway appears to be a lock for the NHL, where will he play?
THE ATHLETIC!
- New Lowetide: Oilers prospect Reid Schaefer and what math tells us about his future
- Lowetide: Oilers’ opening night roster will be influenced by salary cap, waivers
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers’ European, college and junior prospects for 2022-23
- Jonathan Willis: The Edmonton Oilers are rapidly approaching their “all-in” moment
- Lowetide: Why Oilers trading for Patrick Kane makes more sense at the deadline
- Lowetide: 9 Bold Predictions for the 2022-23 Edmonton Oilers
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers reasonable expectations for every player in 2022-23
- Lowetide: Oilers math shows 41 candidates for 23 (or fewer) jobs. Who could play where?
- Lowetide: Who will the Oilers trade for cap purposes?
- Lowetide: 5 Edmonton Oilers training camp surprises
- Lowetide: Four Oilers defence prospects applying for one job. Who wins?
- Lowetide: For Oilers forward Dylan Holloway, the future may come early
- DNB: Oilers’ Brad Holland on AGM role, analytics, working with his dad: Q&A
- Lowetide: Oilers top-20 prospects, summer 2022
HOLLOWAY’S ROLE AS A ROOKIE
Jay Woodcroft uses young players in seemingly unusual places, but in truth does a fine job in playing to their strengths. Evan Bouchard and Ryan McLeod are examples from last season, Philip Broberg a little, too. In the case of Holloway, the traditional approach would have him break in on the No. 3 line with veteran linemates like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Jesse Puljuajarvi.
Holloway’s words yesterday should be taken as a good sign, the young man is moving past it and we saw him good in the AHL as a passer, creative player and speed merchant. He’s good. You would like to see him fill the net (three goals in the final 12 games is 10 goals NHLE in 82 games) in preseason and I do think he’s probably headed for the AHL to start the season. I’m not going to write the bit about him being on the roster to satisfy the bonus issue, then get sent down, but I do see it happening just this way.
HOLLOWAY’S NUMBER COMPARABLES (AHL)
- Dylan Holloway 2021-22 (age 20) 33 games, 8-14-22 (.67)
- Kailer Yamamoto 2021-22 (age 20) 27 games, 10-8-18 (.67)
- Jake DeBrusk 2016-17 (age 20) 74 games, 19-30-49 (.66)
- Michael McCarron 2015-16 (age 20) 58 games, 17-21-38 (.66)
Holloway has some nice comparables here and there’s nothing holding him back. He has enough size, speed and skill to get a full NHL audition and his chances of success are significant. I don’t believe the wrist injury will hamper him enough to cast a pall over his future, but injuries to prospects have exceptional impact. We tend to forget prospect injuries and remember them only as players who weren’t good enough for the show. Consider the impact of injuries on some fine Oilers prospects 20 years ago:
- 2001: Doug Lynch: A wrist injury that was not properly addressed and then a knee injury after being dealt to the Blues organization derailed a promising NHL career. That wrist injury came on the heels of a very impressive AHL season, and washed away his future.
- 2003: Marc Pouliot: He played 3 weeks with a broken wrist during the 2003-04 season.
- 2019: Kailer Yamamoto: Wrist surgery that kept him out of training camp, no known long-term impact.
I don’t think this will be a major issue, and Holloway is close enough for jazz to the NHL. He has played 33 AHL games, Yamamoto played 50 in Bakersfield. I think Holloway may see some action in the AHL early this season, but they key for fans will be how many goals he scores in preseason, Bakersfield and eventually Edmonton. The wrist didn’t impact his brilliant passing in Bakersfield, hopefully he can get enough torque on his shot to beat a goalie clean.
LOWETIDE AND JAMIESON
A busy show, with NFL previews (Broncos) and US Open (Serena! plus Bianco and Shapo) plus the normal high doses of NHL chatter. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!
NEW for The Athletic: Is the Edmonton Oilers’ 2022-23 lineup balanced?
https://theathletic.com/3556042/2022/09/02/edmonton-oilers-lineup-balance-2022-23/
Al, you tease.
https://www.overtimeheroics.net/2022/09/01/2022-offseason-nhl-power-rankings/
Seems a peculiar list in a lot ways, no?
Dallas at 24. Minnesota at 15 amongst others.
Maybe they don’t think much of Oettinger? 😉
But yeah, I just happened across it and posted because they have the Oilers at number 3. I don’t know the site beyond that.
At the same time, it wouldn’t be hard to see Dallas and Minnesota taking big steps back this year due to age and what they’ve lost since last year.
Hey everyone, on a completely unrelated to the thread note… anyone know the best way to stream games while living in Asia. I’m in Singapore, not China so should be easier.. any advice appreciated! Can only watch weekend games due to 15 hr time difference but a little better than none!
There are a bunch of options. The only ones that come to mind right now are:
nhl66.ir
onhockey.tv
Hopefully others can fill out the ones I’m forgetting.
Thank you. I’ll check those out
When I’m in far away destinations, I connect to my ExpressVu VPN and either tell it I’m back in Alberta (stream the networks through my TV provider) or, generally, in the states and use by GameCenter membership (although I think that is changing).
The Battle on the Blueline (with video)
https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/feature-battle-for-opportunity-brewing-on-oilers-blueline/c-335447544
https://www.nhl.com/stars/news/ready-or-not-hockey-world-here-comes-dallas-stars-jake-oettinger/c-335447256
James Neal signs a PTO in St. Louis.
Columbus
Johnny and Neal reunited Neal scores 17 early on then gets waived by the end of the season.
Nothing but respect for James Neal as, from accounts, he was nothing but a tue professional riding the buses for most of last season and just loved being around the team, going to the rink, etc. even without the former life of luxury that went along with it.
The real deal.
Ben Pope
@BenPopeCST
Neither Patrick Kane nor Jonathan Toews have approached the Blackhawks with trade requests, Kyle Davidson told me today. Despite the rampant rumors (he has seen them), there’s “nothing new.”
All parties are “excited to get to training camp and see how the season plays out.”
All parties are “excited to get to training camp and see how the season plays out.”
I think you mean the two players are “excited to get to training camp and see how the trade deadline plays out.”
Chicago had a gross season as an organization – on and off the ice.
Loved seeing Bob’s lines today, I’ve been personally clamoring for Hyman being Nuge’s puck carrier during the season. They’ll be the best 3rd line in hockey, the unicorns will run wild.
Neither 97 or 29 should be spending time watching Hyman lug the puck, Nuge plays like a wizard off of the puck carrier. It’s great deployment imo.
I do wonder where McLeod ends up, I think it’s most likely a roving utility man.
Holloway is going to have to win a job, Bourg is going to need to score 9 in the preseason and he probably still gets sent down. What a change.
Holloway was on Oilers Now this aft.
Bob asked him about C and W and Holloway said he thinks they have him slotted in as a winger but, of course, can play both.
Any consideration for signing Ty Rattie to fill out the first line?
We’ve come a long way since those dark days. Putting a square Rattie in a round Kunitz hole was a bigger stretch than Benson deserving top 6 minutes so he gets a full shot at playing with skill. Not as big as Draisaitl is Colbourne.
All true and the trauma to a point we may never forget!😉
I was just thinking how much depth this team has compared to those days.
And I believed in Rattie, too!
JFJ is only 37, he also remains unsigned. With Rattie on one wing, you’d want some size on the other side.
This the post I hoped this thread would generate. #theresstillachance
I think Holloway starts the season in Bakersfield, sent down immediately after being on the opening day roster for cap reasons. I think he will be a permanent NHL’er shortly after the Christmas break.
3 months as #1C in Bakersfield. Then the last half of the year as #4C in Edmonton.
I could be wrong, but I do not think Holloway has played much at C over the past two years. Why would that change now? Especially with McD, Drai, RNH, and McLeod already on the NHL roster.
None this past season, but I believe he was a full time C in Wisconsin.
It’s a pretty tough gig to be a playmaking winger in the NHL unless you’re really good as in PK or J Hockey
Given Holloway isn’t a shooter and has the wrist thing….
Just ask Nuge!
If he goes to the net he’ll score 20-25 just ask Hyman. Holloway purchased his motor at the same shop as Hyman and it’s almost brand spanking new.
He may end up playing C, but I think ‘playmaking winger’ is selling him short.
His goal-assist ratios have been very ‘normal’ through his career so I expect he’ll score some and set up some. The main questing being how high he can go with both.
AJHL 28 11-16-27 (6 4-0-4 playoffs)
AJHL 53 40-48-88 (7 8-3-11 playoffs)
NCAA 35 8-9-17
NCAA 23 11-24-35
AHL 33 8-14-22 (5 2-2-4 playoffs)
I see neither ‘goal scorer’ or ‘playmaker’, just a rounded player who as noted has a Hell of a motor.
Holloway definitely IS a shooter – from watching him at Wisconsin primarily but also later in the season when his wrist got an extra monty to rest as he rehabbed his thigh injury.
Holloway is very much a shooter and his wrist isn’t effecting his ability to shoot any longer (from his own mouth) – no pain, not even any need to tape it up.
Holloway was a full time center his last year in Wisconsin.
He didn’t play any center this past season but, as he said to Bob this afternoon, he couldn’t take draws.
From Holloway’s mouth today, he thinks they plan to deploy him is a winger (at least in the short term).
I would be just fine with Holloway breaking in to the NHL as a part time winger and part time 4C but I don’t see it happening.
Thanks! I could not find faceoff info from Wisconsin.
When Holloway was on his show today, given how much Bob likes to name-drop, he told Dylan the story about how his former coach, who was then coach at Penn State called him to tell Stauff that it seemed Holloway won 67 out of 71 faceoffs against them that weekend and the Oilers have a good one…..
From watching him that year in Wisconsin, yes, he was very good on faceoffs – for example, he would take the faceoff for PP1 every time before sliding back to a position on the point.
It’s difficult to get him the ice time he needs to continue to progress as a fourth line centre. The team might be better served to leave him the AHL for the full season versus fourth line!
I’ve posted about being OK with him being 4C but, truth be told, he’s unlikely to get any PK duties in his rookie season and, without, that could be some very limited ice time – in particular in games where they are chasing or down early.
I sent him to the AHL for half a season. But then one wants him fully up to NHL speed by the playoffs.
The whole point of the regular season is to get the 4 young D, Holloway, and Boutgault ready for the playoffs.
Dallas signs Jake Oettinger.
3X$4 million
Nice signing.
13 RFAs to go now?
Yep.
You have to wonder what’s going on with McLeod.
Perhaps Holland still working on a trade.
You just dont quit
Yea it kinda seems like the McLeod signing is waiting for another shoe to drop.
Foegele 20%
Yamamota 25%
Barrie 5%
Ryan 5%
Jesse 45%
Trade Ryan just for the Hell of it? It doesn’t really help the cap problem.
Save $400000 but it’s more to do with ice time. I like Ryan at least he can win a face off and he does score some surprising Goals. Their has to be competition with players fighting for a job. If certain fridge players coast through trading camp and a Holloway or a Bourgault blow the doors open then they should win a job.
Yeah it could open up as much as $400k, though only $225k over guys like Holloway and Bourgault.
Even at $400k it wouldn’t be enough to get the Oilers from a 21 to 22-man roster, so I don’t really see a point to it.
I’m not following on the 2nd part. There has to be competition, but they should move Ryan so there’s less competition?
It wouldn’t be the worst thing to trade Foegele for whatever and sign McLeod to a bridge of, say 3X$2 million.
Apparently, Holland is prevented from announcing a McLeod extension until after Labour Day.
Is that in the CBA?
One prime time playoff is worth 12 million. Who would you rather have for the next 3 years Oettinger or Campbell and your reasoning?
https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=177818
I like Campbell. I’d much rather have the guy above. Especially for less cash.
I’m trying recall how many Yankee Goalies have won a Cup without Cheating. I’ve got Barrasso-Richter and Thomas with honourable mention to Jim Craig for backstopping U.S.A to a Gold Medal in 1980.
and that could be Skinner if he pops.
This was an RFA signing hence the lower AAV.
Oettinger.
No injury history, still developing and Campbell has had stretches of poor play.
He had a broken rib and he came back to early because he’s such a competitor. Broken ribs are nasty every inhale and exhale can be torture as you may well know.
One would think the Leafs medical staff would have been involved in that decision.
Ask Sheldon Souray about that and you might lose a couple of teeth.
Based on this logic of yours, you don’t expect any poor stretches of play from Oettinger after also acknowledging he is still developing?
Is Oettinger immune to injury and poor stretches of play? He must be the first goalie in history to achieve this. And at such a young age, too! He’s a hall of famer already.
Campbell is 30.
Oettinger is 24.
Goaltenders tend to get injured more often the older they get which is why so many need hip surgery later in their careers due to the nature of playing the butterfly style.
All else being equal the younger goaltender is a much better bet especially at $1 million lower cap hit and on a two year shorter contract.
Campbell will be 36 when his contract expires.
35. He’ll be 34 until January of the final year.
I wonder why anyone would start to wonder about McLeod – Labor Day isn’t until Monday and I think we all know that this signing will be announced post labor-day.
Facts don’t matters – intentional exaggerations in the name of an anti-Oiler narrative are the norm. Last week I read analysis about injury risk not being something for Oiler rivals with older player but, now, goalies get hurt more as they age.
I think what you meant to say was “Oiler goalies get hurt more as the age” . Because it is axiomatically true that other team goalies 1.) ALWAYS and without fail improve, 2.) NEVER have stretches of poor play or lose confidence, 3.) Automatically are superior in every possible metric of performance and – the crucial element here is 4.) NEVER suffer a freak/odd/significant injury.
The caveat of course is any given said “other goalie” instantly loses every single one of those attributes, the moment they with are rumoured to be traded to Edmonton or in fact sign with Edmonton.
Sounds like the only thing you are betting on is Campbell needing hip surgery before Oettinger later in their lives.
So you think Oettinger is a better bet for the next 3 years because he is $1 million cheaper and has a slightly lower chance of encountering hip problems compared to Campbell. Got it.
Sounds like you are saying a longer bet at 25% more money on an aging goaltender for a longer term is a better course of action.
Got it,
I see you have reduced the discussion down to age, term and money.
How quickly you changed your stance, since it wasn’t long ago you said you preferred Oettinger because he was
“Still developing”
Which, is very vague. Is Campbell still not developing?
And “no poor stretches of play”
Which, is kind of a silly thing to sign a developing, young goaltender to a $4 million contract for 3 years for. Even Carey Price has poor stretches of play.
I’m glad we cleared up you think Oettinger is a better bet because he is younger and $1 million cheaper for 2 less years.
It’s a shame Dallas didn’t look for younger and even cheaper goalies for an even shorter term. What were they thinking?
At 30…players are what they are.
Aging curves wait for no man.
Tim Thomas says hi, on both counts.
Yes there are outliers…MAF being another one.
Betting on filling an inside straight is generally not a good bet.
Holtby just put up a .913 season
Smith came off a .915 season
Bishop’s last NHL season was a .920
Quick had a .910 season.
All, well over their 30s.
Lets look at the young, injury defying goalies you have touted recently:
Logan Thomson had a .914 season
Oettinger had a .914 season
Those horrible, horrible aging curves indeed. It’s all downhill for Jack Campbell now.
Tim Thomas and Rollie peaked in their mid 30’s Goalie’s are a different breed.
Would a stretch of ,893, .905, .870, .900, .958, .789 be a bad stretch?
What about: .862, .870, .826, .931, .920, .765, .737?
Must have butterfly styled too much in those bad seasons.
Those were stretches of games last season.
Makes sense. Sorry, there were a lot of goalie names flyin around. But yes, to my eye, those do seem like bad stretches.
Of note…the Stars made two bets on 30+ goaltenders, Ben Bishop and Anton Khudobin who both had better track records than Campbell.
It did not go well.
Yeah but by your logic, Holtby played more games than Campbell which means he used the butterfly style more, which means he hurt his hips more.
Campbell doesn’t have that same wear and tear, so it’s not comparable.
Well, according to you at least.
EDIT: I also just realized you said Ben Bishop instead of Holtby.
And both put up decent save percentages in their 30s with the Stars. Oh, the horror!
Wow, just looking at this now.
Bishop and Khudobin are actually very encouraging comparables for Campbell (since you brought them up).
Bishop was turning 31 when he signed in Dallas. He had 3 high end seasons there (.923 SV%, .920 in the playoffs) at ages 31, 32 and 33 before going on LTIR with the knee injury.
Khudobin originally signed in Dallas after turning 32, then re-signed at age 34 (a few months older then Campbell will be when his deal expires). His first 2 years were exceptional, then he faltered after signing the 2nd deal. All told though, his SV% was .917 (.918 in the playoffs, including a trip to the finals) in his age 32, 33, 34 and 35 seasons with Dallas.
Both players improved their career SV%s after signing those bets after age 30.
In terms of the players having better track records than Campbell before signing, well:
Bishop 270 GP .919 SV%
Khudobin 147 GP .915 SV%
—–
Campbell 135 GP .916 SV%
Bishop had twice the games and a slightly better SV%. Khudobin had almost identical numbers (but was 2 years older). We will see.
You can’t even do percentages you hopeless troll!
For fun let’s keep track of who has the better save percentage this year Otto or Soupy. I say Campbell by .5 percentage points.
It will be interesting.
The Stars have a new head coach so their style of play is likely to change.
Haven’t you said they’re going to be far more offensive? So likely doesn’t bode well for Oettinger’s SV%.
That is one possible outcome but they may also play the fast, puck possession style that limits chances against.
I am most curious to see how Heiskanen blossoms if he’s freed up from a button down style.
I expect he will be a Norris candidate.
Yes now you get it! Dallas will be both MORE offensive and MORE defensive. They will be IMPREGNABLE. Because Dallas will improve in every possible way, because every possible move will work out. Statistics, reality, probability, chance carry no meaning in these discussion.
Now, this needs to be generalizable. We are currently talking about Dallas. The same “logic” will hold once the discussion turns to Vegas, Vancouver, Colorado, Calgary, St. Louis, Anaheim…….. ad infinitum.
Making excuses already surprise surprise!
In the case of Holloway, the traditional approach would have him break in on the No. 3 line with veteran linemates like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Jesse Puljuajarvi.
=====================
I guess that makes me a traditionalist because that is how I have had them slotted since Puljujarvi signed. 😉
Janmark Holloway and Ryan as the 4th line from January onwards, after spending the fall in Bakersfield.
What ever happened to competition in training camp and earning your job?
And probably starting on left wing. Nothing wrong with being a traditionalist. The extreme end of the scale as in years of tradition unhampered by progress is a different matter.
Ya, as we discussed yesterday, that quote from Holloway was really good to hear. Its a bit disappointing that there are some mobility issues but if they truly don’t effect his hockey play at all and he is 100% hockey wise, that is significant. There was indeed the potential that he would never be 100% on ice going forward.
Lets also remember how different Holloway looked on the ice at the end of the sesaon and playoffs. He was a very impactful player from his first AHL game but, for most of the season, he seemed VERY hesitant to shoot the puck. This changed 180 degrees after he came back from missing a month with that late season thigh injury. He became a volume shooter (to my eye), seemingly looking to shoot the puck at all opportunities. If I’m not mistaken, he was 12P in his last 13G.
For the season, I would say that, just like Yamamoto in 2019, his box-cars absolutely under-represent his impact on the ice. I’m not really exaggerating when I say he was noticeable almost every shift of every game – he was ALL OVER THE PUCK – in all zones. His motor really is something else and elite.
I do presume that (aside from being on the roster for opening submission), he is returned to Bakersfield to start the season. This presumes current roster (i.e. Foegele, Jesse, Yamo all here). His $925K cap hit probably hurts him (vis-a-vis the likes of Benson, Malone, Shore, etc, being cheaper oh the cap). It just seems like natural progression in a Holland run organization when there is actual depth for NHL spots.
Of course, he “won’t be there long” and is likely to be a good 0.90 P/G or even higher in 10, 15, 25 games.
As far as “where he plays”, I do think the org deploys him at wing at the NHL. Maybe that’s “wing forever” or just while he develops early in his NHL career.
Personally, I”m not against him playing 4C at the beginning of his NHL career. Hemsky played 4th line if I remember correctly for a bit and, frankly, I want an impact 4th line and I think they can craft a 4th line that has some skill. Is Janmark/Holloway/Ryan not a 4th line that can be run out in a rotation?
I think its fairly clear based on his comments that he is not 100% and never will be. Maybe 99%. You’re not 100% if you don’t have full range of motion, even if its not “critical” range of motion for “playing hockey” (theres a lot of wrist motion involved in certain activities and if theres weakness it could rear its head again some day). Its going to affect him some. Maybe 1%, but some.
I think its fairly clear based on his comments that he is not 100% and never will be. Maybe 99%. You’re not 100% if you don’t have full range of motion, even if its not “critical” range of motion for “playing hockey” (theres a lot of wrist motion involved in certain activities and if theres weakness it could rear its head again some day). Its going to affect him some. Maybe 1%, but some. Hopefully not severe Klefbom-style arthritis by the age of 25, either.
Kelfbom had several injuries but it was the Staph infection (which is down right nasty) took its toll on him in my peanut gallery opinion
That staph infection was indeed a doozy (and gross) but I”m not sure its been a factor in his shoulder arthritis????????
Here they are all together from Schaefer to Puljujarvi:
PLAYER – D – D+1 – D+2 – D+3
SCHAEFER – 21.8 – – –
CHIASSON – 21.5 – 22.3 – –
PETROV – 10.7 – 37.8 – –
BOURGAULT – 32.1 – 40.6 – –
TULLIO – 28.2 – dnp – 35.0 –
SAVOIE – 22.5 – 30.0 – 41.5 –
BEREZKIN – 15.6 – 20.2 – 23.5 –
HOLLOWAY – 13.3 – 41.6 – 27.3 –
LAVOIE – 25.1 – 31.8 – 21.6 – 17.9
MCLEOD – 27.0 – 23.9 – 15.8 – 38.5
YAMAMOTO – 33.7 – 35.4 – 25.7 – 26.8
BENSON – 20.7 – 28.2 – 27.3 – 37.4
PULJUJARVI – 13.3 – 27.7 – 25.2 – 16.0
That’s a lot of prospects with NHLe seasons above 25. Draft year above 25 is impressive, D+1 above 30 is impressive. D+2 is often a Pro Hockey learning curve season so there is sometimes a dip. Note: Puljujarvi’s D+2 and D+3 are NHL numbers. Holloway’s and Bourgault’s 40+ in their D+1 are phenomenal. Tullio and Savoie had very promising D+2 seasons. Benson has the closest thing to straight line improvement but that is likely due to injuries keeping his numbers down in his first 2 years. His D+3 is solid.
The highlight package from yesterday’s informal skate was fun. Xavier Bourgault was the most impressive to my eyes — lots of high skill plays and looks like he can rip a wrist shot.
Hyman Draisaitl Bourgault (Patrick Who?)
Agreed. Our only disagreement on this is ‘when’. I think Holland will send him to Bakersfield for 20-35 games just because.
I agree with this except the implied meaning behind “just because” (or at the least the meaning I have inferred from it).
I think Bourgault will likely reap material benefits from some solid AHL time as a rookie pro. That’s a massive jump from the Q, both on and off the ice.
Don’t get me wrong, there is a chance that maybe he’s the best RW option to join Kailer and Jesse in the the top 9 – perhaps he could trade water in the top 6 with an elite center or as 3RW with a McLeod or Nuge as his center.
The above can be true while its also true that Bourgault will be a better and/or more impactful player in February or in a year or 18 months due to some real AHL development time. Real and important lessons are learned in the AHL and real and important development happen.
The org is in a place that even an solid prospect like this “could” play in the NHL, they don’t need to play him and can develop him with less risk.
Bourgault could possibly impact the NHL lineup more materially in March due to being in the AHL as opposed to the NHL in October.
Hopefully Bourgault arrives quickly (agree he could).
But the ‘Patrick Who?’ part is a bit much given Kane was a 70 point player out of the box, and basically a 90 point player ever since (the #1 scorer over the past 10 seasons, with per 82 boxcars of 35-59-94).
My preference would be Nuge on the left side with Draisaitl and Bourgault. Hyman down to the third line with McLeod and JP. Two veterans to set up the young rookie and a third line that can minute munch and is defensively extremely sound.
Yeah, there’s so many possibilities for lines that could work.
I can see merit in your and a lot of others (Nuge at 3C, Nuge-Hyman together, etc. etc) so I really don’t have strong preferences for most.
Woodcroft has his work cut out sorting it all out!
LT, this focus you are placing on young prospects is detracting from the real game breakers. Can you please focus more articles on Brad Malone?!!
Agreed. I want a breakdown of Malone’s diet this off-season.
To compare with current youngsters:
Player – Draft – D+1 – D+2 – D+3
Lavoie – 25.1 – 31.8 – 21.6 – 17.9
McLeod – 27.0 – 23.9 – 15.8 – 38.5
Yamamoto – 33.7 – 35.4 – 25.7 – 26.8
Benson – 20.7 – 28.2 – 27.3 – 37.4
Puljujarvi – 13.3 – 27.7 – 25.2 – 16.0
If there is a predictive lesson to be found in those numbers I am afraid that it escapes me.
Progress is nary a straight line?
For sure, but they have to show some production at some point in their D to D+3 seasons. That’s about it.
NHLE is flawed and usually ruined by sample size.
I didn’t like to say. 😉
2 of the 3 comparables you give are pretty significant players, so the comparison looks very reasonable.
I do feel though like Holloway’s AHL production deserves to be viewed though the injury recovery lens. He almost certainly would have produced better boxcars if not making his NHL debut mid-season and with lingering problems with the wrist.
Even now he really seems to be a wildcard in terms of what he’s going to be.
-Great AJHL numbers, but obviously a lesser league
-Questionable counting numbers in his college debut, but finished stronger
-Incredible 2nd college season, but relatively small sample
-Solid AHL debut that probably underestimates his true offensive
Seems to have a pretty high floor, and we should get to see him in the NHL before long.
Not to mention, as Woody liked to do (and Chaulk continued doing), the younger high potential prospects were not loaded up in the top 6 consistently.
While Holloway did get PP1 time from the start (although it was on the point and when he wasn’t able to shoot), he was sprinkled in the middle 6 most of the season.
Nothing wrong with playing the the Habmlin’s and Malone’s but its not like he was rolling with Marody and Griffith nightly.
That’s a lot of solid NHLes. What was used for the KHL equivalency for Berezkin? I’d also like to see Lavoie’s numbers included. His story isn’t over… yet.
Player – Draft – D+1 – D+2 – D+3
Lavoie – 25.1 – 31.8 – 21.6 – 17.9
His Draft season and D+1 were so promising. He’s fallen off the pace since. But COVID may have had more of an impact on him. Hopefully, he’s had a good off-season and will come back in a big way this season.
Absolutely agree we shouldn’t write off Lavoie yet.
Has he had a good offseason though? I thought he was still recovering from surgery late last season. It’d be nice to hear an update on where he’s at (someone can fill me in if there already has been one).
I really thought we nailed it with the Lavoie pick. A big winger that drives to the net and has half decent hands. Instead he’s been a disappointment to say the least.
Would you say the same about Holloway? 🙂
Holloway would have a full-time job in the top 9 if not for the injury complications. Anytime you go under the knife you take your chances. McDavid is a perfect example of that, things could of really turned south on Connor just ask Bobby Orr.
Its been me that’s posted about his season ending major knee surgery and postulating about him maybe not being 100% for camp let alone having had a summer of hockey training (as opposed to injury rehab).
Yes, there has been a “somewhat official” update (which I did post earlier this week). Its not good. Stauff mentioned on his show that he thinks Lavoie will have a “late start” to the year.
I take that to mean he’s not 100% which likely means he hasn’t even really “hockey trained” and has been rehabbing all off-season.
I know Holloway has to have that mentality to move on with his hockey journey, but I find it very hard to believe a wrist injury which required 2 surgeries to correct, where there is still soreness and issues with range of motion, won’t have a negative impact on his play with the puck.
Not everyone has a mutant healing factor like Connor “Logan” McDavid.
20 year old elite level athletes aren’t everyone and I’d imagine, with most of them their ability to heal is mutant like.
Watching him in the AHL and one would notice a marked and material difference in his game with the puck after the mid-season month long “break” with the thigh injury.
Woah LT… I thought you’ve been inferring lately we pump the breaks on prospects because we don’t know what we don’t know etc.
I’m too lazy to look for Benson’s draft year(s)+ comparables…
I am joking, and obviously really hoping for Holloway’ success. If he turns out to be a DeBrusk replica, is that a win? I know many here have wanted that player for some time. Maybe we’re sick of chasing the Bruins UFA draft and develop players (Ference, Lucic, DeBrusk) and starting to draft our own.
Drafting and developing our own players has been a long time coming for this franchise.
I sometimes wonder what the 80’s did to the psyche of this team where talent just seemed to arrive without planning because of the talent/luck of Sather and Fraser.
It worked so well until it didn’t but it did seem to produce a mindset amongst those who experienced it and later became part of management regarding the value of growing their draft picks into useful players.
The Oiler gang of the 80’s was so successful with the will to win the talent and the pack mentality. Sather was the architect but the players desire to win trumped everything. You fast forward and I could see how the OBC just couldn’t fathom how players were so nonchalant with losing. The team as a whole watched individual players get thumped and pissed on with Zero response. No wonder why Perron lost it and was traded immediately after caring to much.
Stauffer:
Projected @EdmontonOilers lines:
(with RNH at center)
Kane-McDavid-Puljujarvi
McLeod-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Foegele-RNH-Hyman
Janmark-Shore-Ryan
McLeod on 2, Hyman on 3? Hmmm. No offence to Shore, but I’d rather improve 4C a bit.
Why does Leon always get saddled with wingers that have brick hands.
because Yamamoto having brick hands is made up in your head.
I’ve got no issue with Hyman on the 3rd line in general. One of his “attributes” is being able to compliment top player but also “drive a 3rd line”. Lets not forget he was actually -7 goals at 5 on 5 last season.
One main roster issue for the Oilers right now is that they have 3 right wingers for the top 9 (with Bourgault the wild card). D. Ryan will be a great 4RW but they need an add there and, at this point, Gagner isn’t that guy as they need a top 9 guys.
That is why I’m hopeful for E. Rodrigues to add to Jesse and Kailer for the top 9. I’m thinking he’ll come in around $1.5MM. I’m not sure if Foegele out and Rodrigues in with a 22 man roster is compliant but it might be close.
The other “issue” is 4C. I even texted this to the show this morning. We speak of the great center depth, however, if we want McLeod above the 4th line well there isn’t a great 4C option give or take Ryan McLeod.
As per my other initial post this morning, I’m not against Holloway at 4C but I don’t think the org goes there.
cant say i like this.
I would much prefer the following… if foegele is moved on from
Kane-Mcd-Yammo
Hyman-Drat-Puljujarvi
Holloway-Nuge-(Milano or rodrigues)
Janmark-Mcleod-Ryan
Hyman is good enough to drive his own line. Keeping the #1 PK unit of RNH-Hyman together results in less disruption of lines. McLeod-Yamo can be #2PK unit, then load up Kane-McDavid-Draisaitl for the post-PK shift.
McLeod can fly, he’s a zone entry machine. Makes sense to give him a chance with Leon. I like the thinking … we’ll see about the execution.
Quite aside from any consideration of chemistry or balance my first thought is that Bob isn’t very good at counting unless he thinks Barrie is being traded.
Yes, I was going to add to the post (but I was at the gym and needed to get back to work) – not sure how he gets that lineup in with cap compliance.
Good points
It also seems they’re balancing traits and looking for a reliable 3rd line probably to hard match at home and make some clean air for the top 6
1- JP is the retriever
2- Highlander gives the line speed and the zone entries, pressure off Leon especially if anything is lingering with the ankle
3- Foegele Hyman provide size and speed to Nuge’s lack of. Hopefully Foegele finds the two way game again he was supposed to have had that we haven’t seen yet
4- Without a better C they are going to be picking a lot of pine splinters, but the wingers are good at that usage
I think that Ryan is the other top 2 PK unit guy – the likes of Yamo, Drai and, hopefully, Foegele and/or Jesse filling in behind the top 4 – I think.
Yes, of course, but I think the exercise is with players currently in the Oilers’ org.
I don’t think Milano plays RW (or hasn’t) but Rorigues does….
For a game as violent and brute strength as hockey can be the fine motor skills can really make or break a pro career. How fine a line it is for the best in the world.