(If left is right and right is wrong) You Better Decide Which Side You’re On

Starting in 2015, I began ranking 120 players per draft based on math and a few other things I believed. Beginning that year, I started back drafting my list against the Oilers selections.

I wondered if my ‘math’ rankings would outshine Edmonton’s scouts, or at least hold its own. I decided to wait five years to give the prospects time to develop. We’re five years past the 2015 draft. How did the Lowetide list do against the Oilers scouts?

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, check it out here.

  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: We’re all just praying’: Hockey community rallies around Colby Cave
  • New Murat Ates: My favourite player: Ryan Smyth
  • New Jonathan Willis: What does the Oilers best possible playoff lineup look like?
  • New Lowetide: Why Jack Quinn is a perfect 2020 draft fit for the Oilers
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: My favourite player: Donovan Bailey
  • Jonathan Willis: For one glorious fall, Alexander Selivanov was the NHL’s most dangerous scorer
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Hockey’s not that important right now’: Oilers minor-leaguer Colby Cave in coma
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ five-on-five with and without Connor McDavid is improving
  • Lowetide: Bakersfield Condors forward prospects might need a history lesson
  • Lowetide: Craig MacTavish’s most important Oilers moment? Picking Leon Draisaitl
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: If play does not resume, 5 notable questions that will go unanswered in Edmonton
  • Lowetide: Making the call on RFA and UFA players on the Oilers’ 50-man roster
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Scott Howson on new AHL job, Oilers’ unsung prospect and development updates
  • Lowetide: A look back at reasonable expectations and the Oilers fantastic special teams in 2019-20.
  • Daniel Nugent-BowmanConnor McDavid on a ‘fair season’, working out and picking quarantine teammates
  • Jonathan Willis: If the Oilers need to clear money with a buyout, they have one real option
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: The 5 games that define Leon Draisaitl’s Hart Trophy-worthy season
  • Lowetide: Final Oilers report cards: Second-half impact defines a successful season

THE 2015 DRAFT

Oilers scouts must have been beside themselves watching all those draft picks being dealt, but five years later there’s a lot to be proud of for the organization. McDavid is the franchise cornerstone but the lottery took care of that pick.

The scouts get credit for the Jones, Bear and Marino picks and that’s a lot of quality. The 2015 draft already has four NHL players, matching 2010 as the only year in the decade to manage it. The 2015 foursome will fly higher than 2010.

My selections included Bear and little else of note. He’s the only player my list picked who is on track for an NHL career (McDavid aside).

Decision: Major edge to the Oilers scouts.

THE 2016 DRAFT

Four years after and this draft went sideways in a hurry. Puljujarvi was the right pick but his handling by the organization was a comedy of errors. Benson looks like he might be able to help and the organization could be on the verge of signing Niemelainen and Berglund this summer. Wells turned pro with an NHL contract but this draft will cross the five-year finish line in trail position.

The Lowetide list also took Puljujarvi, but followed up with DeBrincat who was a second-round home run. I also like the fact Abramov got a cup of coffee and hope for a late ‘Marino’ spike from him in 2020-21.

Decision: Major edge for the Lowetide list, and unlikely to improve for the Oilers with one season left in the five-year window.

THE 2017 DRAFT

The Oilers have what looks like a solid draft developing. Yamamoto overcame injuries and some pedestrian AHL numbers with a fantastic run with the big club beginning January 2020. Samorukov is tracking like a future NHLer and Maksimov has promise. Skinner hasn’t emerged but has had some good months in a tough situation.

Tolvanen trails Yamamoto but both men have talent and could become productive players for the next several years. Reedy is tracking well enough to be considered a prospect, and Chmelveski has a chance too.

Decision: Edge Edmonton, Yamamoto looks more dynamic than Tolvanen and Samorukov is a quality prospect.

THE 2018 DRAFT

The Oilers have Bouchard, who has the resume of a successful offensive defenseman and appears ready. McLeod and Rodrigue had good seasons and Kesselring has a lot of fans who work in the hockey industry.

My list features several men who are pushing up depth charts. Smith had a terrific year, he’s going to be a fine defenseman. Fagemo and Hillis posted strong seasons and Olofsson is on track as a prospect. Nyman had a solid year in Finland.

Decision: Too soon to know, both lists are performing well.

THE 2019 DRAFT

One year in the Oilers have several prospects performing well. Broberg and Lavoie played at the WJ’s and did some good things in league games. Konovalov had an uneven year but remains the best goalie prospect in the system. Blumel, Mazura and Denezhkin are progression.

My list has Kaliyev, who is a quality scorer whose numbers improved only slightly in draft plus one. Matthew Robertson improved across the board and is emerging as a nice two-way defenseman. Blake Murray didn’t score 50 goals this season but did improve his points per game. Billy Constantinou had a solid year.

Decision: Much too soon to know, no player on either list spiked in a way that suggests an impact player is about to emerge.

CONCLUSION

Edmonton’s 2015 draft was exceptional, full value for procuring four NHL players without a second or a third-round selection. The team’s 2017 draft appears to have two handsome returns (Yamamoto, Samorukov) although those eggs aren’t fully hatched yet. The 2018 and 2019 drafts continue to matriculate.

Edmonton’s sore spot is the 2016 draft, there is time and Puljujarvi, Benson and possibly others have NHL talent. Important to salvage something from that draft summer.

The Lowetide list hit a big fly in 2016, DeBrincat is the kind of selection math uncovers annually. The difference is DeBrincat cashed big, so as opposed to being an astute selection the young man had a fairly immediate impact on the franchise (Chicago) smart enough to pick him. The 2018 draft is also tracking well for the Lowetide list.

On the downside, the LT 2015 list got very little compared to the Oilers. As much as I can trumpet the DeBrincat selection, Edmonton’s scouts grabbed four useful pieces to only two from my list.

The 2017 list is reliant on Tolvanen turning out, there’s no one who looks like Samorukov. The 2019 list doesn’t look inspiring one year later.

Bottom line: Despite the DeBrincat selection, the Oilers scouts did a better job in these five drafts based on what we know today.

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140 Responses to "(If left is right and right is wrong) You Better Decide Which Side You’re On"

  1. Harpers Hair says:

    RIP Colby Cave.

  2. Yeti says:

    2016- you would have taken Veini Vehviläinen in the 4th round. Would be a useful piece for the Oilers to have right now.

  3. Yeti says:

    Oh no. That’s terrible. Sorry to hear this.

  4. wchay says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Just crushing. Thoughts with his wife and family.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    This was fun to look at just like the Oilers List vs. McKenzie LIst was fun to look at a few days ago.

    The DeBrincat pick hugely swings the 2016 draft but, if Benson does become a solid middle six player (let alone top 6) and Berglund becomes and NHL d-man…..

    2017 has the potential for 4-5 legit NHL players, player of prominence as well – too soon to tell but it may be another 2015 (sans McDavid).

  6. Todd Macallan says:

    Colby and Kristians Pelss are somewhere forming 2/3rds of a heck of an energy line now.

  7. frjohnk says:

    Absolutely gut wrenching.

    Taken way too young

  8. meanashell11 says:

    What a tragedy.

    My heart goes out to his family.

  9. OriginalPouzar says:

    Geezus – what awful news

    25 years old.

  10. flyfish1168 says:

    What sad news. RIP Colby Cave.

  11. doritogrande says:

    Sail on, son of Battleford.

  12. doritogrande says:

    So apt, but so tragic at the same time.

  13. Munny says:

    Fuck.

    so sad.

  14. OilClog says:

    Rest in Peace Colby Cave

  15. dustrock says:

    Oh man that’s tragic. Rest in Peace.

  16. jdhardy says:

    Far, far too soon. RIP Colby.

  17. unca miltie says:

    crushing news. so sad

  18. OilClog says:

    Krakatoa is erupting, Chernobyl is burning, Aliens must be next.

  19. slopitch says:

    Heartbreaking news about Colby Cave. Man. RIP. Gone too soon.

  20. jp says:

    That’s awful. RIP Colby.

  21. geowal says:

    Terrible news this AM

  22. defmn says:

    Words fail. RIP Colby.

  23. Pescador says:

    Colby was one tough SOB,
    https://youtu.be/8Id4ExV3mQI

  24. unca miltie says:

    I am right behind the Heat bench wearing my Oilers sweater in that clip. that will always be my memory of Colby even though he was well thought of for many other things.

  25. Silver Streak says:

    I was at the Bruin game in mid February….one group of fans wearing Bruin sweaters had Cave on the back….I asked where they were from….Battleford was the reply….they were a great bunch who made their town and Province proud….and they loved Colby. RIP

  26. defmn says:

    I wouldn’t say that I agree with Staples on each and every individual call he makes on what constitutes a mistake using his visual scoring system but like all large numbers they tell a story that has merit.

    This is why I like Larsson and will be sad when his time with the Oilers comes to an end.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/the-most-under-rated-edmonton-oilers-player-is-and-he-wins-by-a-long-shot/

  27. jtblack says:

    “DeBrincat is the kind of selection math uncovers annually. ”

    This is why it would be wise for KH to acquire 1 or 2 picks in the upcoming draft … The more picks, the more opportunity scouts have to deliver ..

  28. OriginalPouzar says:

    Yeti:
    2016- you would have taken Veini Vehviläinen in the 4th round. Would be a useful piece for the Oilers to have right now.

    I ask what you see in this player in particular?

    Sure, he had better numbers in the AHL that Stuart Skinner but they were still VERY middling numbers and he’s almost two years older than Skinner. I don’t see anything in his numbers that would suggest he’s NHL ready at 23.

    I acknowledge his numbers in Liiga and internationally but based on his first year North American season, am I missing something?

  29. Victoria Oil says:

    Thanks for posting. This will be my memory of him. RIP Colby.

  30. defmn says:

    jtblack:
    “DeBrincat is the kind of selection math uncovers annually. ”

    This is why it would be wise for KH to acquire 1 or 2 picks in the upcoming draft …The more picks, the more opportunity scouts have to deliver ..

    I don’t think anybody would disagree that more draft picks is better than fewer draft picks.

    How you acquire those picks is a more nuanced discussion. 😉

  31. fries n gravy says:

    Alas, such sad news.

  32. Gerta Rauss says:

    RIP Colby

    Heartbreaking news

  33. Someone says:

    What a horrible thing, and for his family not to be able to be with him in his final moments must have been crushing.

  34. jtblack says:

    defmn: I don’t think anybody would disagree that more draft picks is better than fewer draft picks.

    How you acquire those picks is a more nuanced discussion.😉

    100%. But I think we can agree that a team cannot go into draft after draft with 4 or 5 picks … If KH wants to build this out properly, they need as close to a full slate as possible for the next 2 – 3 years …

  35. Harpers Hair says:

    Nikolay Goldobin signs a two year contract in the KHL.

    Just another European opting to play close to home.

  36. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    jtblack,

    There would seem to be a two year window to acquire surplus picks from teams who’ve gathered more picks then they can reasonably integrate into their farm systems. Here’s looking at you, OTT, MTL and LAK.

    OTT: Round 1 (3x), Round 2 (4x), Round 3 (2x)
    MTL: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (3x), Round 5 (2x)
    LAK: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (2x)

    Other teams with multiple mid round picks:
    CAR: Round 2 (2x), Round 3 (2x)
    TBL: Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (2x)
    DET: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x)
    NSH: Round 2 (2x), Round 3 (2x)

    Of note, I find it interesting that some of these teams are rebuilding (DET, OTT, LAK), some are mid-stride (CAR, MTL, NSH) with TBL being the only team in a legitimate window to contend for the next few years. As such, TBL would probably be the hardest to pry surplus picks out of due to them needing talent percolating in the minors to replace skill leaving in a few years.

  37. jtblack says:

    seems like more and more players are choosing that option …

  38. jtblack says:

    Math or no Math. If you use the benefit of hindsight, it tells us that YES you can hit on an impact player in the 2nd Round.  But the numbers also clearly show that the odds of getting an impact player is between 6% – 13%. So let’s meet in the middle and call it 10%.  That’s 1 a decade.  

    Impact players:
    2006 – PETRY, LUCIC, ANISIMOV
    2007 – SUBBAN, SIMMONDS
    2008 – JOSI, STEPAN, HAMONIC, J SCHULTZ
    2009 – O’REILLY, SILVERBERG, TATAR, ORLOV
    2010 – J. FAULK, TOFFOLI, ZUCKER
    2011 – JENNER, SAAD, W. KARLSSON, KUCHEROV
    2012 – NONE (This is probably the worst Draft Class Ever)
    2013 – NONE
    2014 – NONE
    2015 – AHO
    2016 – DEBRINCAT, GIRARD

    there are obviously quite a few other decent players. I tried to stick to impact players.

  39. Harpers Hair says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    jtblack,

    There would seem to be a two year window to acquire surplus picks from teams who’ve gathered more picks then they can reasonably integrate into their farm systems.Here’s looking at you, OTT, MTL and LAK.

    OTT: Round 1 (3x), Round 2 (4x), Round 3 (2x)
    MTL: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (3x), Round 5 (2x)
    LAK: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (2x)

    Other teams with multiple mid round picks:
    CAR: Round 2 (2x), Round 3 (2x)
    TBL: Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (2x)
    DET: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x)
    NSH: Round 2 (2x), Round 3 (2x)

    Of note, I find it interesting that some of these teams are rebuilding (DET, OTT, LAK), some are mid-stride (CAR, MTL, NSH) with TBL being the only team in a legitimate window to contend for the next few years.As such, TBL would probably be the hardest to pry surplus picks out of due to them needing talent percolating in the minors to replace skill leaving in a few years.

    Thing is, TB drafts so well that they end up trading drafted prospects for players who can help in the short term.

    Tony DeAngelo – Rangers
    Brett Howden – Rangers
    Libor Hajek – Rangers
    Adam Erne – Detroit
    Connor Ingram – Nashville

    And yet they still have former first round picks Cal and Nolan Foote as their top D prospects along with some promising prospects like Boris Katchouk and Taylor Raddish in Syracuse.

    Then, of course, their ability to hit on players in later rounds is just ridiculous.

    Kucherov – 2nd round
    Palat – 7th round
    Paquette – 4th round
    Point – 3rd round
    Joseph – 4th round
    Cirelli – 3rd round
    Stephens – 2nd round

    And those are just the players on the current NHL roster

  40. jtblack says:

    Tampa’s excellence is in big part to landing Kucherov and Point …

    Both would be considered excellent value if they were chosen in the 1st round …

  41. Harpers Hair says:

    jtblack:
    Tampa’s excellence is in big part to landing Kucherov and Point …

    Both would be considered excellent value if they were chosen in the 1st round …

    And the others named would have been value if picked in the second round.

  42. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Agreed, their ability to suss out and develop late round picks is reminiscent of DET in the 90s-00s.

    That they trade strong prospects for roster players is a good point. That may be our best avenue to procuring some quality from them as they are loaded with draft picks. Wouldn’t blame them for wanting to make their own picks, if it ain’t broke and all. Although they’re going to be needing to dump salary rather than take it on.

    Players like Maroon, Bogosian, Schenn and Shattenkirk are all UFAs and will need to be replaced if not resigned.

    Pending RFAs of note include: Sergachev and Cirelli.

    Perhaps we can fill a roster need for them and recoup a surplus pick for the trouble.

  43. Yeti says:

    OriginalPouzar: I ask what you see in this player in particular?

    Sure, he had better numbers in the AHL that Stuart Skinner but they were still VERY middling numbers and he’s almost two years older than Skinner.I don’t see anything in his numbers that would suggest he’s NHL ready at 23.

    I acknowledge his numbers in Liiga and internationally but based on his first year North American season, am I missing something?

    Nothing more than:

    (1) despite his down-arrows year in the AHL, prior to that he won the best SM Liiga goaltender trophy in consecutive years and – in 2019 – led the league in goals-against average at 1.58 and in save percentage at .933

    (2) he’d be more useful than Matt Cairns by some margin

    Not saying he’s going to make it at the NHL, but he’d be a very useful addition to our goalie pool.

  44. Lowetide says:

    One thing we need to remember is luck, good and bad. Barry Fraser was skilled but also lucky, and spent 15 years in a job without getting enough done.

    Tampa Bay is enjoying great returns from the 2011 and 2012 drafts, with three nice kickers from 2014 and 2015. History tells us sustain is the most difficult skill, tougher years are ahead. Consistent success at the draft table is elusive.

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    Goldobin joining Slepy:

    Rick Dhaliwal@DhaliwalSports

    Just had a brief talk with Nikolay Goldobin about signing in Russia for the next 2 years.

    “The #Canucks did not want to sign me, I was disappointed how it turned out in VAN but I am happy to sign in KHL and will try NHL again in 2 years.”

    327
    9:20 AM – Apr 11, 2020

  46. Munny says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Nikolay Goldobin signs a two year contract in the KHL.

    Just another European opting to play close to home.

    I don’t blame him. He had nothing left to learn in the A… at least with regards to offense.

  47. Harpers Hair says:

    Munny: I don’t blame him. He had nothing left to learn in the A… at least with regards to offense.

    His problem in both San Jose and Vancouver was consistent effort.

    It caught up to him.

  48. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Cave reached out to Pospisil by text after that by text, transcript in the CoH post that Staples wrote this morning. He was a class act & a solid citizen.

  49. Lowetide says:

    I don’t have much to add about Colby Cave’s passing, someone tweeted “No words” and that’s how I feel. 25. My son is 25. I have lived several decades after 25. Colby Cave won’t get those decades and no one has a reason.

    His wife, a week ago, would have been planning their future with him, contemplating the years they would spend together. Today she is alone.

    My heart breaks for her and the entire family.

  50. London Jon says:

    Very sad to hear the news about Colby Cave.

    It’s front page on the BBC website, which hockey NEVER is.

    Strange to find out the news that way as it’s such a surprise. And I also thought the procedure sounded relatively straightforward despite the induced coma.

    RIP Colby. Far, far too soon. Although what a battler to fight through being undrafted to make the NHL. A man who absolutely made the most of his opportunities and scrapped for every inch of progress.

  51. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Hear, hear. This has been hard to accept. By all accounts Colby was a first-class individual. 25-year-old athlete goes to bed, never wakes up.

    Devastated for his young wife in particular. Married less than a year.

  52. pts2pndr says:

    Batten the hatches the Vancouverites are filling the ferries and coming your way.Hunker down and be safe. Take care of Mrs Hair and be safe!
    My best to you both!

  53. jtblack says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing we need to remember is luck, good and bad. Barry Fraser was skilled but also lucky, and spent 15 years in a job without getting enough done.

    Tampa Bay is enjoying great returns from the 2011 and 2012 drafts, with three nice kickers from 2014 and 2015. History tells us sustain is the most difficult skill, tougher years are ahead. Consistent success at the draft table is elusive.

    IMO it has more to it than just luck. Tampa did very well for 6 years in a row .. 2010-2015.

  54. Lowetide says:

    jtblack: IMO it has more to it than just luck.Tampa did very well for 6 years in a row .. 2010-2015.

    Sure. Barry Fraser drafted better than anyone in history 1979-83. He drafted a baker’s dozen worth of good players, several great and a few made the HHOF.

    If the Lightning draft brilliantly 2016-20 that’ll be 10 great years of drafting. How many organizations have had 10 years straight of great drafting?

    Not even Pollock did it and he was drafting kids who were 20.

  55. rickithebear says:

    RIP!

    I was worried they were not at his bed side.
    But they were!

  56. jtblack says:

    Lowetide: Sure. Barry Fraser drafted better than anyone in history 1979-83. He drafted a baker’s dozen worth of good players, several great and a few made the HHOF.

    If the Lightning draft brilliantly 2016-20 that’ll be 10 great years of drafting. How many organizations have had 10 years straight of great drafting?

    Not even Pollock did it and he was drafting kids who were 20.

    2008- They had 1 pick (Stamkos) in the top 115 and stil had 4 players play 100 games
    2009 – Hedman & Panik
    2016 – Howden was chosen 5 picks before Benson. Traded in the McDonaugh deal, Howden has 2 full seasons in the NHL. Hajek also had a cup of coffee with NYR last year. 2 Good arrows already (although they won’t play for Tampa).

    Prob different scouts during those years, but really Tampa has already done well from 2008 – 2016 (which is 9 years) …

  57. jtblack says:

    would be interesting to see which organization has put together the best 10 year run …

  58. Harpers Hair says:

    Lowetide: Sure. Barry Fraser drafted better than anyone in history 1979-83. He drafted a baker’s dozen worth of good players, several great and a few made the HHOF.

    If the Lightning draft brilliantly 2016-20 that’ll be 10 great years of drafting. How many organizations have had 10 years straight of great drafting?

    Not even Pollock did it and he was drafting kids who were 20.

    Pollock for the most part was drafting in a six team league and was able to bend the rules often.

  59. Bruce McCurdy says:

    If not actually write the rules…

  60. jtblack says:

    how about the best 1 year draft?

    AVALANCHE 2009

    #3 – DUCHENE
    #33 – O’REILLY
    #64 – BARRIE

    Ok then.

  61. jtblack says:

    DUCKS 2003

    #19- GETZLAF
    #28 – PERRY
    #186 – DREW MILLER (571 gms played)
    #250 – SHANE O’BRIEN (537 gms played)

  62. Lowetide says:

    Closest I’ve seen is NY Islanders 1972-81.

  63. SwedishPoster says:

    Terrible news about Colby Cave. Real gutpunch when I saw the news. My deepest to his family and loved ones. Way too young.

    Long interview with Filip Berglund in swedish media today, don’t have time for a full translation, maybe tomorrow, but the biggest takeaway was that him and the Oilers has ”a good contact” but nothing signed yet. He also said he doesn’t feel ready to come over next season, he wants to take another step in the SHL before giving the NHL a try. Feels he has things he needs to develop before he can make an impact. To me it sounds like he’ll sign but then be loaned back to Sweden where he’ll be reunited with his former coach. If I’m reading between the lines correctly the reason he signed with a new SHL team is because he wants to be used as a true #1D in the SHL before coming over. Don’t think his ambition is to end up as depth NHL D, he wants to give himself a proper chance to be a top 4 NHL D down the line and thus don’t want to risk coming over too quickly.

  64. godot10 says:

    We applaud Captain Kirk for doing this.

    We smirked at Spock for trying to follow the pre-ordained rules in the Kobyashi Maru scenario.

  65. godot10 says:

    1) Lowe, Messier, Anderson (and signing Huddy as a undrafted free agent).
    2) Coffey, Kurri, Moog.

  66. Harpers Hair says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    If not actually write the rules…

    Amen.

  67. jtblack says:

    Yah, those would be near or at the Top … Holy Crap … I knew they were good but forgot how good …

  68. defmn says:

    jtblack: 100%.But I think we can agree that a team cannot go into draft after draft with 4 or 5 picks … If KH wants to build this out properly, they need as close to a full slate as possible for the next 2 – 3 years …

    Long term success in a capped league is obviously tied to drafting and I fully expect Holland to try and grab a pick for Benning. If he gets a 6th for KRussell I will call that a win as well.

    But the thing about draft picks after the 1st round is that you are almost always looking at 4 years before they are a help to an NHL team so they are very much in the ‘long term success’ column. There are exceptions, of course, but they are more in the ‘I found a ten dollar bill on the floor of the bus’ category.

    But while long term success is tied to good drafting you have to have short term success first so that it can grow into long term.

    This team has holes. We all know where they are and more or less agree on the urgency of filling them so while I agree that drafting has to be the path to success year over year you have to get those 12 ‘core’ positions filled first so that we don’t waste more McDavid and Draisaitl years.

    Right now I am in the ‘3rd line centre is the biggest need’ camp. I don’t for a minute think the Oilers have an asset in the minors that can get that player by himself but there are some pieces that might help if they can find a team that has a different set of needs or scenarios.

    Is Jones blocked by Nurse and Klefbom with top 4 potential? I can see an argument for that. Samoroukov and Broberg are also in any conversation about future LD’s.

    Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year? Is Puljujarvi even necessary to that discussion?

    I don’t know the answer to those questions and I am as reluctant as anybody to trade one of our young dmen because they all look so shiny and bright right now but I want a young defensively minded centre for that spot and I have limited purchasing power so I am reluctant to spend any of it on draft picks until my current roster is filled in.

    And that is why I don’t trade young Jesse this summer for a promise that is 4 years in the future. I hold all my chips until I see the prize I want.

    Other than that I don’t care if Jesse stays in Europe for another year. The Oilers own his rights until he is 27, I believe, and his value can go down some but not enough that I am willing to move him until I see if he can help me fill the current roster with a prospect rather than a draft pick.

  69. jp says:

    defmn:
    Here are NHL games played by round in the years 2010-11 through 2019-20:

    First Round: 3,281 Second Round: 487 Third Round: 321 Fourth Round: 718

    I’m curious if anybody know what a ‘healthier’ distribution would look like. Should we expect something close to 1/3 of the games played by 2nd rounders to 1st rounders? Half as many?

    Something south of 15% seems almost willfully pathetic.

    This is from yesterday afternoon, I recalled an article related to it late last night.

    https://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports/Schuckers_NHL_Draft.pdf

    It’s a bit out of date (looking at 1988-97 drafts in hindsight), and doesn’t address the question directly but there’s some good info in there.

    For instance, average games played by round:
    1st – 482
    2nd – 192
    3rd – 182
    4th – 84
    5th – 86
    6th – 87
    7th – 50

    So 15% (GP by Oilers 2nd rounders vs 1st round GP) is low based on this. And these numbers do fit your 1/3 guess.

    But there’s also a graph in there of average GP per pick. It starts at roughly 900 GP for pick #1 and drops rapidly. Down to ~400 GP by pick #10 and ~200 GP by pick #50 (reading off a graph here, so these are rough numbers).

    Since the Oilers have been picking consistently in the top 10 (often top 5) they’re going to be skewed to higher GP than the “average” 1st rounder above. There are 7 1st rounders (and 4 #1OVs) accounting for most of your 3281 games (about 450 games average between the 7) and Taylor Hall is the oldest at 28. They’re going to blow the 482 average out of the water (as they should based on where they were picked).

    The Oilers only produced Pitlick and Marincin as NHLers from the 2nd round since 2010. Pretty meh. But the 200 games probability that we talked about the other day was about 30% for 2nd rounders IIRC. So that would only be 3 per 10 years expected. Decent chance one of Benson, McLeod or Lavoie can get the Oilers to 30% over 10 years (though likely with zero impact players). I’d say most of the effect of the Oilers 1st round being so much better than the 2nd round is that their 1st round picks have been very good (and very high picks).

  70. defmn says:

    SwedishPoster:
    Terrible news about Colby Cave. Real gutpunch when I saw the news. My deepest to his family and loved ones. Way too young.

    Long interview with Filip Berglund in swedish media today, don’t have time for a full translation, maybe tomorrow, but the biggest takeaway was that him and the Oilers has ”a good contact” but nothing signed yet. He also said he doesn’t feel ready to come over next season, he wants to take another step in the SHL before giving the NHL a try. Feels he has things he needs to develop before he can make an impact. To me it sounds like he’ll sign but then be loaned back to Sweden where he’ll be reunited with his former coach. If I’m reading between the lines correctly the reason he signed with a new SHL team is because he wants to be used as a true #1D in the SHL before coming over. Don’t think his ambition is to end up as depth NHL D, he wants to give himself a proper chance to be a top 4 NHL D down the line and thus don’t want to risk coming over too quickly.

    Thanks for that. I think that is great news for the Oilers if it plays out like that.

  71. jp says:

    Also Walt Poddubny (468-184-238-422 career) in 1980.

    Just remarkable stuff.

    Add in Fuhr and Smith in 1981 and that might be a good enough 3 year run to beat any other teams 10 years (maybe not). 6 Hall of Famers drafted in 3 years.

  72. defmn says:

    jp: This is from yesterday afternoon, I recalled an article related to it late last night.

    https://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports/Schuckers_NHL_Draft.pdf

    It’s a bit out of date (looking at 1988-97 drafts in hindsight), and doesn’t address the question directly but there’s some good info in there.

    For instance, average games played by round:
    1st – 482
    2nd – 192
    3rd – 182
    4th – 84
    5th – 86
    6th – 87
    7th – 50

    So 15% (GP by Oilers 2nd rounders vs 1st round GP) is low based on this. And these numbers do fit your 1/3 guess.

    But there’s also a graph in there of average GP per pick. It starts at roughly 900 GP for pick #1 and drops rapidly. Down to ~400 GP by pick #10 and ~200 GP by pick #50 (reading off a graph here, so these are rough numbers).

    Since the Oilers have been picking consistently in the top 10 (often top 5) they’re going to be skewed to higher GP than the “average” 1st rounder above. There are 7 1st rounders (and 4 #1OVs) accounting for most of your 3281 games (about 450 games average between the 7) and Taylor Hall is the oldest at 28. They’re going to below the 482 average out of the water (as they should based on where they were picked).

    The Oilers only produced Pitlick and Marincin as NHLers from the 2nd round since 2010. Pretty meh. But the 200 games probability that we talked about the other day was about 30% for 2nd rounders IIRC. So that would only be 3 per 10 years expected. Decent chance one of Benson, McLeod or Lavoie can get the Oilers to 30% over 10 years (though likely with zero impact players). I’d say most of the effect of the Oilers 1st round being so much better than the 2nd round is that their 1st round picks have been very good (and very high picks).

    Thanks for that. The crappy drafting in the 2nd round that has characterized this team since forever has definitely affected my opinion of trading for another one of them even though I know it is a different crew making the selections these days.

    But it is really the timeline that has me reluctant to trade Jesse for a promise that might be fulfilled in 4 years. McDavid & Draisaitl deserve a chance to win sooner than that and so I hold my chips waiting to see if somebody bites.

  73. jtblack says:

    defmn: Long term success in a capped league is obviously tied to drafting and I fully expect Holland to try and grab a pick for Benning. If he gets a 6th for KRussell I will call that a win as well.

    But the thing about draft picks after the 1st round is that you are almost always looking at 4 years before they are a help to an NHL team so they are very much in the ‘long term success’ column. There are exceptions, of course, but they are more in the ‘I found a ten dollar bill on the floor of the bus’ category.

    But while long term success is tied to good drafting you have to have short term success first so that it can grow into long term.

    This team has holes. We all know where they are and more or less agree on the urgency of filling them so while I agree that drafting has to be the path to success year over year you have to get those 12 ‘core’ positions filled first so that we don’t waste more McDavid and Draisaitl years.

    Right now I am in the ‘3rd line centre is the biggest need’ camp. I don’t for a minute think the Oilers have an asset in the minors that can get that player by himself but there are some pieces that might help if they can find a team that has a different set of needs or scenarios.

    Is Jones blocked by Nurse and Klefbom with top 4 potential? I can see an argument for that. Samoroukov and Broberg are also in any conversation about future LD’s.

    Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year? Is Puljujarvi even necessary to that discussion?

    I don’t know the answer to those questions and I am as reluctant as anybody to trade one of our young dmen because they all look so shiny and bright right now but I want a young defensively minded centre for that spot and I have limited purchasing power so I am reluctant to spend any of it on draft picks until my current roster is filled in.

    And that is why I don’t trade young Jesse this summer for a promise that is 4 years in the future. I hold all my chips until I see the prize I want.

    Other than that I don’t care if Jesse stays in Europe for another year. The Oilers own his rights until he is 27, I believe, and his value can go down some but not enough that I am willing to move him until I see if he can help me fill the current roster with a prospect rather than a draft pick.

    “Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year?”

    Let me tell you a story about the last time Edmonton gave up a lot for a player in the AHL …. 🙂

    That aside, you raise many good points … But what if Jesse plays in Finland for the next 2, 3 or 4 years? you keep holding?

    If I look at Edmonton’s prospect pipleline, it looks below average to me …. Connor and Leon are 23 and 24. They have a Good 10 years ahead of them (and most likely with Edm) … I think Edm NEEDS to continue to draft most picks and develop them. CHEAP LABOR is one of the top currencies in the league. Bear, Jones and Yammy were the difference this year. CHEAP IMPACTFUL labor.

    I know KH can’t wait forever to start pushing for the Cup, but it’s not his fault PC messed this up. Trying to rush the build (a contender year after year) won’t work IMO.

    And just so it’s clear. I was all for the AA deal at the deadline. You still have to make moves for immediate help, but it needs to be balanced (getting picks back) for long term success.

  74. jp says:

    Looking at the 72-81 Islanders as LT mentioned. Damn. That beats those 3 Oiler years I think. Only 5 HOFers though 🙂

  75. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    SwedishPoster,

    Thanks for the update, appreciate having the inside track on local prospects through your contributions.

    Also interested in any updates from the current conditions surrounding your professional sphere, if you’re inclined. Keep safe over there.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Nikolay Goldobin signs a two year contract in the KHL.

    Just another European opting to play close to home.

    He wanted to stay but the organization did not want to sign him – so he says.

  77. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    The fLames got a 4th from BUF for Frolik. Same salary, less valuable player.

    The NTC adds a layer of difficulty, however.

  78. OriginalPouzar says:

    SwedishPoster:
    Terrible news about Colby Cave. Real gutpunch when I saw the news. My deepest to his family and loved ones. Way too young.

    Long interview with Filip Berglund in swedish media today, don’t have time for a full translation, maybe tomorrow, but the biggest takeaway was that him and the Oilers has ”a good contact” but nothing signed yet. He also said he doesn’t feel ready to come over next season, he wants to take another step in the SHL before giving the NHL a try. Feels he has things he needs to develop before he can make an impact. To me it sounds like he’ll sign but then be loaned back to Sweden where he’ll be reunited with his former coach. If I’m reading between the lines correctly the reason he signed with a new SHL team is because he wants to be used as a true #1D in the SHL before coming over. Don’t think his ambition is to end up as depth NHL D, he wants to give himself a proper chance to be a top 4 NHL D down the line and thus don’t want to risk coming over too quickly.

    Great info as always – thank you very much.

    A bit disappointing that he wants to stay one more year in Sweden but I get it and it is what it is.

    I now understand why both Howson and Holland have mentioned signing him but not sure if he’d be in North America or Sweden next year.

    Lets just get that ELC signed by June and keep his rights – it will be a 2-year ELC (max) and the first year will burn off while he’s playing in the SHL next season. He could sign a 1-year ELC and then he’d be an RFA and could negotiate a one-way deal, if money is an issue.

  79. defmn says:

    jtblack: “Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year?”

    Let me tell you a story about the last time Edmonton gave up a lot for a player in the AHL….

    That aside, you raise many good points … But what if Jesse plays in Finland for the next 2, 3 or 4 years?you keep holding?

    If I look at Edmonton’s prospect pipleline, it looks below average to me ….Connor and Leon are 23 and 24.They have a Good 10 years ahead of them (and most likely with Edm) … I think Edm NEEDS to continue to draft most picks and develop them. CHEAP LABOR is one of the top currencies in the league. Bear, Jones and Yammy were the difference this year.CHEAP IMPACTFUL labor.

    I know KH can’t wait forever to start pushing for the Cup, but it’s not his fault PC messed this up. Trying to rush the build (a contender year after year) won’t work IMO.

    And just so it’s clear. I was all for the AA deal at the deadline. You still have to make moves for immediate help, but it needs to be balanced (getting picks back) for long term success.

    I don’t disagree with any of that but to answer your question I wait at least another year before I accept a draft pick. Jesse is young. A year is a lifetime for a 21 year old. I hold for at least a year unless I get what I want.

    It is funny you mention the emergence of Jones, Bear and Yamomoto this year because they are a major reason why I don’t want to trade for a draft pick this summer. If you had asked me last summer how far away this team was from competing I wouldn’t have counted any of those three as significant pieces and so figured Chiarelli had screwed this team up so badly we were at least 3 years away from recovering. That would have allowed that draft pick for Jesse to be viable. Now? I think we are a lot closer because we only have a couple of spots to be in the mix. I never expect a team in a capped league to break camp with every position filled optimally because the money doesn’t work. But we are close. I don’t want to turn an asset into a four year wait.

  80. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    JP+ for Domi would solve a lot of problems, salary aside to reup Max for term.

    Haula is one of my top 3C targets. Fooling around with the ArmchairGM feature on CapFriendly has him as a viable acquisition target in the UFA market for <$3.5M (pending minor raises to reup other current roster players like AA, pEnnis, Green, Bear etc). Whether that's realistic/doable or not is another matter entirely.

  81. jake70 says:

    rickithebear:
    RIP!

    I was worried they were not at his bed side.
    But they were!

    That’s good. Hospital in which I work, and I think most are same, palliative, newborns and ICUs, and that’s it for visitors. He would have been most likely neurosurg ICU.

  82. who says:

    defmn: Long term success in a capped league is obviously tied to drafting and I fully expect Holland to try and grab a pick for Benning. If he gets a 6th for KRussell I will call that a win as well.

    But the thing about draft picks after the 1st round is that you are almost always looking at 4 years before they are a help to an NHL team so they are very much in the ‘long term success’ column. There are exceptions, of course, but they are more in the ‘I found a ten dollar bill on the floor of the bus’ category.

    But while long term success is tied to good drafting you have to have short term success first so that it can grow into long term.

    This team has holes. We all know where they are and more or less agree on the urgency of filling them so while I agree that drafting has to be the path to success year over year you have to get those 12 ‘core’ positions filled first so that we don’t waste more McDavid and Draisaitl years.

    Right now I am in the ‘3rd line centre is the biggest need’ camp. I don’t for a minute think the Oilers have an asset in the minors that can get that player by himself but there are some pieces that might help if they can find a team that has a different set of needs or scenarios.

    Is Jones blocked by Nurse and Klefbom with top 4 potential? I can see an argument for that. Samoroukov and Broberg are also in any conversation about future LD’s.

    Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year? Is Puljujarvi even necessary to that discussion?

    I don’t know the answer to those questions and I am as reluctant as anybody to trade one of our young dmen because they all look so shiny and bright right now but I want a young defensively minded centre for that spot and I have limited purchasing power so I am reluctant to spend any of it on draft picks until my current roster is filled in.

    And that is why I don’t trade young Jesse this summer for a promise that is 4 years in the future. I hold all my chips until I see the prize I want.

    Other than that I don’t care if Jesse stays in Europe for another year. The Oilers own his rights until he is 27, I believe, and his value can go down some but not enough that I am willing to move him until I see if he can help me fill the current roster with a prospect rather than a draft pick.

    Your posts are soooooo much more realistic than many posters on this blog.

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: Long term success in a capped league is obviously tied to drafting and I fully expect Holland to try and grab a pick for Benning. If he gets a 6th for KRussell I will call that a win as well.

    But the thing about draft picks after the 1st round is that you are almost always looking at 4 years before they are a help to an NHL team so they are very much in the ‘long term success’ column. There are exceptions, of course, but they are more in the ‘I found a ten dollar bill on the floor of the bus’ category.

    But while long term success is tied to good drafting you have to have short term success first so that it can grow into long term.

    This team has holes. We all know where they are and more or less agree on the urgency of filling them so while I agree that drafting has to be the path to success year over year you have to get those 12 ‘core’ positions filled first so that we don’t waste more McDavid and Draisaitl years.

    Right now I am in the ‘3rd line centre is the biggest need’ camp. I don’t for a minute think the Oilers have an asset in the minors that can get that player by himself but there are some pieces that might help if they can find a team that has a different set of needs or scenarios.

    Is Jones blocked by Nurse and Klefbom with top 4 potential? I can see an argument for that. Samoroukov and Broberg are also in any conversation about future LD’s.

    Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year? Is Puljujarvi even necessary to that discussion?

    I don’t know the answer to those questions and I am as reluctant as anybody to trade one of our young dmen because they all look so shiny and bright right now but I want a young defensively minded centre for that spot and I have limited purchasing power so I am reluctant to spend any of it on draft picks until my current roster is filled in.

    And that is why I don’t trade young Jesse this summer for a promise that is 4 years in the future. I hold all my chips until I see the prize I want.

    Other than that I don’t care if Jesse stays in Europe for another year. The Oilers own his rights until he is 27, I believe, and his value can go down some but not enough that I am willing to move him until I see if he can help me fill the current roster with a prospect rather than a draft pick.

    Solid post and good thoughts.

    Just a few random things that came to me as I read it:

    1) I could see Benning for a pick but, at the end of the day, the likelihood of that pick ever becoming as good as Matt Benning is slim. Not saying it shouldn’t be done – adding prospects and having contracts and players under team control does have value. I do not think that a spot needs to be “opened up” for Bouchard. He’ll either force his opportunity at camp or, if not, it will come shortly after – teams need many d-men in a year

    2) If the Oilers can get rid of Rusty’s last year without retaining at all or taking back a negative value contract, that’s a massive win – a 6th, being an actual positive asset back, would be a Lucic like win. No offence to Rusty, I like him and he’s an NHL d-man but that left side depth is real and Holland needs that $4M

    3) I agree on 3C being the one external acquisition required this off-season and I do see the premise of using Jones as part of the acquisition cost – I understand Klef and Nurse blocking him from the top 4. At the same time, I think this might be a terrible time to move Jones – he had just solidified himself as an every day NHL d-man and showed that he very well could be a top 4 guy very soon but I don’t think he has that value yet around the league because he just started to show it. Its likely not “known” to other GM/scouts yet. Couple that with $800K for two years, likely to be a massive value contract……

    He’s blocked by Klef and Nurse, yes, but what a great 3LD depth option and injury cover – at $800K.

    Of course, Nurse is 2 years and the UFA – Jones may not be blocked for that long – I imagine his 3rd contract will be much cheaper than Nurse’s UFA deal…

  84. defmn says:

    who: Your posts are soooooo much more realistic than many posters on this blog.

    There’s no reason to be mean. 😉

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    JP+ for Domi would solve a lot of problems, salary aside to reup Max for term.

    Haula is one of my top 3C targets.Fooling around with the ArmchairGM feature on CapFriendly has him as a viable acquisition target in the UFA market for <$3.5M (pending minor raises to reup other current roster players like AA, pEnnis, Green, Bear etc).Whether that’s realistic/doable or not is another matter entirely.

    I think JP would have to be the plus, not the centerpiece of the trade – I think they’d be looking for a much much more proven player in a Domi trade – like a Bear level value.

    I also just get a bad feeling about Domi and his potential contract – he rubs me the wrong way for some reason and think he’s going to demand “the moon”.

  86. dunterpunter says:

    RIP Cave.

    #12

  87. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar: Solid post and good thoughts.

    Just a few random things that came to me as I read it:

    1) I could see Benning for a pick but, at the end of the day, the likelihood of that pick ever becoming as good as Matt Benning is slim. Not saying it shouldn’t be done – adding prospects and having contracts and players under team control does have value. I do not think that a spot needs to be “opened up” for Bouchard. He’ll either force his opportunity at camp or, if not, it will come shortly after – teams need many d-men in a year

    2) If the Oilers can get rid of Rusty’s last year without retaining at all or taking back a negative value contract, that’s a massive win – a 6th, being an actual positive asset back, would be a Lucic like win. No offence to Rusty, I like him and he’s an NHL d-man but that left side depth is real and Holland needs that $4M

    3) I agree on 3C being the one external acquisition required this off-season and I do see the premise of using Jones as part of the acquisition cost – I understand Klef and Nurse blocking him from the top 4. At the same time, I think this might be a terrible time to move Jones – he had just solidified himself as an every day NHL d-man and showed that he very well could be a top 4 guy very soon but I don’t think he has that value yet around the league because he just started to show it.Its likely not “known” to other GM/scouts yet. Couple that with $800K for two years, likely to be a massive value contract……

    He’s blocked by Klef and Nurse, yes, but what a great 3LD depth option and injury cover – at $800K.

    Of course, Nurse is 2 years and the UFA – Jones may not be blocked for that long – I imagine his 3rd contract will be much cheaper than Nurse’s UFA deal…

    Yeah, I agree all of our speculations are more about what might have to be done rather than perfect in and of themselves. Holland is the only guy who has to run all the possible scenarios through his head and pick the one he thinks best for the team.

    As you know I really like Jones. I actually think he could be better than Bear even though I know that is a lonely position at the moment.

    So I don’t suggest trading him lightly. The problem is that the LD has lots of promise but nobody that is ready to take a top 4 job away from Nurse of Klefbom next season and we need a 3C for next season so Holland has to either overpay for an older one as a UFA or use a trading chip and LD seems to be where we have them at the moment.

  88. rickithebear says:

    jtblack:
    Math or no Math. If you use the benefit of hindsight, it tells us that YES you can hit on an impact player in the 2nd Round. But the numbers also clearly show that the odds of getting an impact player is between 6% – 13%. So let’s meet in the middle and call it 10%. That’s 1 a decade.

    Impact players:
    2006 – PETRY, LUCIC, ANISIMOV
    2007 – SUBBAN, SIMMONDS
    2008 – JOSI, STEPAN, HAMONIC, J SCHULTZ
    2009 – O’REILLY, SILVERBERG, TATAR, ORLOV
    2010 – J. FAULK, TOFFOLI, ZUCKER
    2011 – JENNER, SAAD, W. KARLSSON, KUCHEROV
    2012 – NONE (This is probably the worst Draft Class Ever)
    2013 – NONE
    2014 – NONE
    2015 – AHO
    2016 – DEBRINCAT, GIRARD

    there are obviously quite a few other decent players. I tried to stick to impact players.

    When it comes to adding and excluding players on cup winning rosters
    I see you identified
    + ve Impact
    And
    -ve IMPACT players.

    Is drafting a player who does not sign with the team “good scouting?”

    Off to basement to continue building frames for my version of Trug raised garden beds.
    Learning garden is such an interesting multivariable approach Technology.
    Being forced to move to eco skills of 10,000 yrs ago.

    😉 have a nice day!

  89. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Just heard and came directly here. Devastating news on Colby Cave. Most of the difficulties that each of us deal with are shown to be trivial when something like this happens. Find your significant others and give them hugs … and be thankful that you still can.

  90. geowal says:

    Yes, initial reports from a few days ago said nobody could be by his side, glad to hear that wasn’t the case at the end.

  91. Harpers Hair says:

    rickithebear: When it comes to adding and excluding players on cup winning rosters
    I see you identified
    + ve Impact
    And
    -ve IMPACT players.

    Is drafting a player who does not sign with the team “good scouting?”

    Off to basement to continue building frames for my version of Trug raised garden beds.
    Learning garden is such an interesting multivariable approach Technology.
    Being forced to move to eco skills of 10,000 yrs ago.

    have a nice day!

    Great to see you posting again Ricki…was worried about you.

    Mrs. Hair and I spent the day planting…all from seed this year as garden centres are pretty much all closed here on the Island.

    Something primeval about digging in the dirt…very therapeutic.

  92. Tarkus says:

    jtblack,

    Detroit’s 1989 draft was pretty good too.

    4 players with >1000 games played, and Konstantinov was almost halfway to it when his career was cut short at age 30.

    https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html

  93. Harpers Hair says:

    Don’t know if it’s been confirmed here…but Barry Allan did pass this week…confirmed by TDM who was a close friend of Barry.

  94. jp says:

    SwedishPoster:

    Long interview with Filip Berglund in swedish media today, don’t have time for a full translation, maybe tomorrow, but the biggest takeaway was that him and the Oilers has ”a good contact” but nothing signed yet. He also said he doesn’t feel ready to come over next season, he wants to take another step in the SHL before giving the NHL a try. Feels he has things he needs to develop before he can make an impact. To me it sounds like he’ll sign but then be loaned back to Sweden where he’ll be reunited with his former coach. If I’m reading between the lines correctly the reason he signed with a new SHL team is because he wants to be used as a true #1D in the SHL before coming over. Don’t think his ambition is to end up as depth NHL D, he wants to give himself a proper chance to be a top 4 NHL D down the line and thus don’t want to risk coming over too quickly.

    Thanks for the update. Sounds like he will sign with the Oilers, which is good news. It would have been nice to see him in NA and have him as an NHL option this year but you can definitely see the logic from the players POV. Hope he has another strong development year in the SHL. Hope all is well where you are.

  95. barry.moore23 says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Don’t know if it’s been confirmed here…but Barry Allan did pass this week…confirmed by TDM who was a close friend of Barry.

    The day is heavy for us but I did want to let you know that the firehose comment from a couple of days ago made me giggle so thanks for that.

  96. Harpers Hair says:

    barry.moore23: The day is heavy for us but I did want to let you know that the firehose comment from a couple of days ago made me giggle so thanks for that.

    Thanks…taking one for the team.😎

  97. Death By Misadventure says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    jtblack,

    There would seem to be a two year window to acquire surplus picks from teams who’ve gathered more picks then they can reasonably integrate into their farm systems.Here’s looking at you, OTT, MTL and LAK.

    OTT: Round 1 (3x), Round 2 (4x), Round 3 (2x)
    MTL: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (3x), Round 5 (2x)
    LAK: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (2x)

    Other teams with multiple mid round picks:
    CAR: Round 2 (2x), Round 3 (2x)
    TBL: Round 3 (2x), Round 4 (2x)
    DET: Round 2 (3x), Round 3 (2x)
    NSH: Round 2 (2x), Round 3 (2x)

    Of note, I find it interesting that some of these teams are rebuilding (DET, OTT, LAK), some are mid-stride (CAR, MTL, NSH) with TBL being the only team in a legitimate window to contend for the next few years.As such, TBL would probably be the hardest to pry surplus picks out of due to them needing talent percolating in the minors to replace skill leaving in a few years.

    Besides the consistent busts when picking at the draft, I always thought one of the issues with the Oilers being stuck in perpetual rebuild was that they never had enough picks to actually build a sizable core to move forward with. They needed a couple of 2011 drafts where they added a Nuge and Klef in one draft. But alas, that beauty first round was followed by 2012 and Yakupov.

    Ottawa, for all it’s troubles, is doing this right. To be determined how it all turns out, but at least they are trying to build through the draft aggressively.

  98. ashley says:

    I recall a lot of smoke around Sergechev in 2016 before we got distracted by the fact that one of the “big 3” might fall because Columbus was going to pass on the Finns.

    It’s a shame how it unfolded. Sergechev would have been great on this team.

  99. Harpers Hair says:

    Death By Misadventure: Besides the consistent busts when picking at the draft, I always thought one of the issues with the Oilers being stuck in perpetual rebuild was that they never had enough picks to actually build a sizable core to move forward with. They needed a couple of 2011 drafts where they added a Nuge and Klef in one draft. But alas, that beauty first round was followed by 2012 and Yakupov.

    Ottawa, for all it’s troubles, is doing this right. To be determined how it all turns out, but at least they are trying to build through the draft aggressively.

    If their owner wasn’t batshit crazy they would have a perennial contender.

  100. OriginalPouzar says:

    Death By Misadventure: Besides the consistent busts when picking at the draft, I always thought one of the issues with the Oilers being stuck in perpetual rebuild was that they never had enough picks to actually build a sizable core to move forward with. They needed a couple of 2011 drafts where they added a Nuge and Klef in one draft. But alas, that beauty first round was followed by 2012 and Yakupov.

    Ottawa, for all it’s troubles, is doing this right. To be determined how it all turns out, but at least they are trying to build through the draft aggressively.

    Well, in 2015, they get a McDavid, a Bear and a Jones (and also a Marino but….).

    In 2017 they got a Yamamoto and ______ – there are a couple or three legit NHL prospects.

    In 2018, well, its too early to say but there is a Bouchard and a couple other legit NHL prospects.

  101. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Well, in 2015, they get a McDavid, a Bear and a Jones (and also a Marino but….).

    In 2017 they got a Yamamoto and ______ – there are a couple or three legit NHL prospects.

    In 2018, well, its too early to say but there is a Bouchard and a couple other legit NHL prospects.

    Thin gruel outside the first overall lottery pick.

  102. jp says:

    defmn: Long term success in a capped league is obviously tied to drafting and I fully expect Holland to try and grab a pick for Benning. If he gets a 6th for KRussell I will call that a win as well.

    But the thing about draft picks after the 1st round is that you are almost always looking at 4 years before they are a help to an NHL team so they are very much in the ‘long term success’ column. There are exceptions, of course, but they are more in the ‘I found a ten dollar bill on the floor of the bus’ category.

    But while long term success is tied to good drafting you have to have short term success first so that it can grow into long term.

    This team has holes. We all know where they are and more or less agree on the urgency of filling them so while I agree that drafting has to be the path to success year over year you have to get those 12 ‘core’ positions filled first so that we don’t waste more McDavid and Draisaitl years.

    Right now I am in the ‘3rd line centre is the biggest need’ camp. I don’t for a minute think the Oilers have an asset in the minors that can get that player by himself but there are some pieces that might help if they can find a team that has a different set of needs or scenarios.

    Is Jones blocked by Nurse and Klefbom with top 4 potential? I can see an argument for that. Samoroukov and Broberg are also in any conversation about future LD’s.

    Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year? Is Puljujarvi even necessary to that discussion?

    I don’t know the answer to those questions and I am as reluctant as anybody to trade one of our young dmen because they all look so shiny and bright right now but I want a young defensively minded centre for that spot and I have limited purchasing power so I am reluctant to spend any of it on draft picks until my current roster is filled in.

    And that is why I don’t trade young Jesse this summer for a promise that is 4 years in the future. I hold all my chips until I see the prize I want.

    Other than that I don’t care if Jesse stays in Europe for another year. The Oilers own his rights until he is 27, I believe, and his value can go down some but not enough that I am willing to move him until I see if he can help me fill the current roster with a prospect rather than a draft pick.

    Very well said.

    I will note that a draft pick, or the player it’s used on, can be used as currency to address holes in the short term. So it’s not necessarily sunk cost for 3-5 years until the player is ready.

    That aside, I do agree that 3C is the Oilers most pressing need, that it would be great to solve it by acquiring a young player under control, and that using Puljujarvi or other assets like Jones/Benning etc (or picks) would be ideal.

  103. rickithebear says:

    Harpers Hair: Great to see you posting again Ricki…was worried about you.

    Mrs. Hair and I spent the day planting…all from seed this year as garden centres are pretty much all closed here on the Island.

    Something primeval about digging in the dirt…very therapeutic.

    My father was raised on the farm in Rocky Mtn house ( rimby hall).
    Travelled the world for 1 of every 2 weeks.
    Then back in the garden after work (Satelite Station) with his tailored suits on ( drove my mom mad)

    It is interesting watching You tube seeing all the ideas about gardening.
    Then reading articles on gardening method succes for zone 3A/B
    Figuring how I can place 3ft by 8ft garden to maximize
    – placement of difrent Kinds of Sun hr and shade plants
    – deciding On diffrent bed mixes.
    – deciding on plants for each bed.
    – deciding on planting space per vegetable type per bed.
    – deciding on high intensity spacing for bed and 67LT utility buckets.
    – deciding what high return Veg 5times more than traditional, my family will eat to grow.
    It is Awsome.

    That is why have not been posting.

    ————————————————————————-

    Plus trying to convert the uncovertable on this site
    into using proven Championship Scientific theories.
    (kind of nailed it VGK 100% of exp draft players)
    Home plate
    Open closed shot
    Rovers
    Transition def
    Cup core
    Was growing tiresome for me and most posters.

    ————————————

    Someone mentioned Huala in past post.
    He was one of my prospects ( Exp draft) That was sure to be a top 125 Fwd with better Even and PP usage.

    —————————————————

    With Cancer restriction I watch
    “My self Reliance”
    And
    “Andrew Camaratta”
    I

  104. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Harpers Hair: His problem in both San Jose and Vancouver was consistent effort.

    It caught up to him.

    To me it’s if you view yourself as an offensive player – meaning not concerned about a rounded game – you have to be an elite scorer.

    A lot of fails barring injuries come along these lines.

    Be Pat Kane or Matthews or Ovi or dig deeper.

    Every sport, all the time.

  105. jp says:

    defmn: Thanks for that. The crappy drafting in the 2nd round that has characterized this team since forever has definitely affected my opinion of trading for another one of them even though I know it is a different crew making the selections these days.

    But it is really the timeline that has me reluctant to trade Jesse for a promise that might be fulfilled in 4 years. McDavid & Draisaitl deserve a chance to win sooner than that and so I hold my chips waiting to see if somebody bites.

    Yeah the Oilers certainly haven’t drafted an impact player in the 2nd for quite a while (I guess Petry in 2006 is the last).

    On Jesse, I agree it would be ideal to move him for someone that contributes sooner than a 2nd round pick. But theoretically moving him for #33 would still be something I’d do since I think it’s good value overall (the higher end of what’s apparently been offered so far).

    Draisaitl is here for at least 5 more seasons, McDavid at least 6. The window isn’t just the next 2-3 years. A pick around #33 could well result in a cheap and useful player within the McDavid/Draisaitl window (even if it doesn’t extend beyond their current deals). Looking at players picked between 28 and 38 in relatively recent years:

    2017 (so this season was draft +3)
    Jokiharu was an NHL regular
    Hague and Boqvist played more NHL than AHL games
    7 of 11 players have played NHL games

    2016 (draft +4)
    Steel is a regular
    Asplund, Peeke, Kyros, Hajek played significant games
    8 of 11 have played NHL games
    Debrincat was drafted 39th

    2015 (draft +5)
    Beauvallier is a regular (has been since draft +2)
    Fischer is a regular (has been since draft +3)
    Dermott is a regular (has been for 2+ yrs)
    Aho is a star (has been a regular since draft +2)
    Carlo is a regular (has been since draft +2)
    Stephens became a regular this season
    8 of 11 have played NHL games

    2014 (draft +6)
    Kempe is a regular (has been since draft +3.5)
    Lemieux is a regular (has been since draft +5)
    Barbashev is a regular (has been since draft +3.5)
    Pettersson is a regular (has been since draft +5)
    Demko is a backup now
    9 of 11 have played NHL games

    There really is a pretty decent chance of getting a player at the beginning of the 2nd who will contribute within the Draisaitl/McDavid window. I see your POV about in terms of holding out to get something that will be useful sooner, but trading Puljujarvi and taking the pick has value IMO too.

  106. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Death By Misadventure,

    Agree to a large extent.

    The other half of the problem, too many past due veterans and career AHL’ers, seems to have been solved in recent years.

    A full slate of draft picks (or more) in the next few years should have the team humming considering the recent history of improved drafting.

  107. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    ashley,

    I’d rather have Draisaitl AND Nurse (or Klefbom) plus whatever happens with JP than Subban and Segachev.

    Maybe that’s just me.

  108. Harpers Hair says:

    rickithebear: My father was raised on the farm in Rocky Mtn house ( rimby hall).
    Travelled the world for 1 of every 2 weeks.
    Then back in the garden after work (Satelite Station) with his tailored suits on ( drove my mom mad)

    It is interesting watching You tube seeing all the ideas about gardening.
    Then reading articles on gardening method succes for zone 3A/B
    Figuring how I can place 3ft by 8ft garden to maximize
    – placement of difrent Kinds of Sun hr and shade plants
    – deciding On diffrent bed mixes.
    – deciding on plants for each bed.
    – deciding on planting space per vegetable type per bed.
    – deciding on high intensity spacing for bed and 67LT utility buckets.
    – deciding what high return Veg 5times more than traditional, my family will eat to grow.
    It is Awsome.

    That is why have not been posting.

    ————————————————————————-

    Plus trying to convert the uncovertable on this site
    into using proven Championship Scientific theories.
    (kind of nailed it VGK 100% of exp draft players)
    Home plate
    Open closed shot
    Rovers
    Transition def
    Cup core
    Was growing tiresome for me and most posters.

    ————————————

    Someone mentioned Huala in past post.
    He was one of my prospects ( Exp draft) That was sure to be a top 125 Fwd with better Even and PP usage.

    —————————————————

    With Cancer restriction I watch
    “My self Reliance”
    And
    “Andrew Camaratta”
    I

    Keep safe friend.

  109. defmn says:

    I think I could agree with all of this if McDavid & Draisaitl hadn’t already played so many seasons with so little success. I know that is kind of a pathetic response because you can’t speed up the present because of a lousy past but there it is.

    The core of this team needs some success and the sooner the better.

  110. Harpers Hair says:

    Scungilli Slushy: To me it’s if you view yourself as an offensive player – meaning not concerned about a rounded game – you have to be an elite scorer.

    A lot of fails barring injuries come along these lines.

    Be Pat Kane or Matthews or Ovi or dig deeper.

    Every sport, all the time.

    Yep.

  111. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Considering how good their drafting has been since OTT came into the league? It’s actually impressive how deep in it they are right now. At least there appears to be a light at the end of the tunnel. Best news they could get is a team sale to a hands-off owners with deep(er) pockets.

    I’ve always rooted for OTT, seeing how they were set up by a bunch of old BotB and aren’t MTL or TOR. Have fielded some fine teams and talents over the years.

  112. wolf8888 says:

    100%

  113. wolf8888 says:

    I assume you gentlemen are not in Edmonton. A long way from gardening here still 🙁

  114. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    rickithebear,

    I used to watch My Self Reliance quite a bit, but found his videos a bit slow/boring even if the info was very good.

    You might enjoy Kris Harbour Natural Building. Just saw an impressive DIY of his yesterday where he built a 1kW wind turbine out of scrap and salvaged materials. Got the wheels turning for my own purposes. Another channel worth a look, from a completely different approach/environment, is ‘homesteadonomics’

    As for the farming/gardening channels I can ask my better half what she likes and report back to you if you like. There are some smart bits of information to be gleaned from a variety of sources if you know where to look. You’d probably enjoy Joel Salatin and his methods.

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Thin gruel outside the first overall lottery pick.

    I’ll take:

    – 2 legit every day NHL d-men at 22 years old, drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds – one already a top pairing player

    – a legit top 6 winger, maybe top line winger soon, drafted in the back half of the 1st round.

    – I’ll take an AHL all-star in his rookie pro 20 year old season.

    Lots of other potential NHLers.

    Not all can show themselves as early as legit 2nd pairing d-man Brogan Rafferty……

  116. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’ll take:

    – 2 legit every day NHL d-men at 22 years old, drafted in the 4th and 5th rounds – one already a top pairing player

    – a legit top 6 winger, maybe top line winger soon, drafted in the back half of the 1st round.

    – I’ll take an AHL all-star in his rookie pro 20 year old season.

    Lots of other potential NHLers.

    Not all can show themselves as early as legit 2nd pairing d-man Brogan Rafferty……

    Yeah…there is no other team that has acquired two potential second pairing D in the last five years.

    It’s remarkable unless you actually take a look.

    Then there is the case of a top six winger.

    Anyone get one in the last five years?

    Vancouver got four.

  117. rickithebear says:

    Football the game I was best at has been an area I have been looking at lately
    DET lions moves.
    Like hockey I look at past performance seasons by position critical to Playoff success.

    Here is an example of a post.
    Many fans are educated and like to discuss system/ scheme philosophy.
    But like the per snap identification for Mgmt decisions.

    My Lions grabbed a standup LB 2nd rd in 2019 draft.
    J. Tavai
    A. Has Elite forward contact LB rates per snap like All pro/ Pro bowl seasons from
    James Harrison,
    K. Dansby,
    L, David,
    L. Timmons.
    100+ comb TKL, 10+ TFL, 5 Sacks, 10QBH any combination of 15 QB contacts = (sk + QBH)
    B. Tavai had Box/Free safety target per snap (45+ per season) rates in coverage.
    With QB having worse than #32 (starter) passing rating in coverage.

    Det brings in J. Collins
    A. Elite Fwd contact LB
    B. Elite coverage LB with 55+ targets and QBH get worse than #32 Passing rating
    C. 30 total pressures (SK + QBH + Pressures) nice addition to IDL pressures.

    Gives 2 250+ LB with tackle/coverage skills teams are looking for from 237LB I Simmons LB in draft.
    Our Box safety Walker was 100+ comb TKL and top 15 S Pass defended

    Most of are DB/Lb had terrible coverage (QB rating) results.
    Due to 21.5 Total pressures from (1777 snaps) Harrison, Daniels, Robinson, Atkins, Hand.
    First 3 are gone. Robinson (12 Total pressures) signing for 2yr 8.5M per in LAR.

    Quinn signed:
    Nick Williams DT/DE 2yr 5M per (531 snaps) 6 sk, 27.5 Total pressures.
    D. Shelton (NT) 2yr 4M per (492 snaps) 18 Total pressure.
    They signed more than double the unit sacks for 500K more than Robinson

    We know QB Passing ratings levels were
    PB QB 78.7 (#32 QB Mayfield 78.8)
    Bott 5 84.3
    Bott 10 86.4
    Bott 15 below average 91.1

    Trufant 1CB (4.39 40) Covers best reciever (87.6 Bott #13 QB)
    J. Kearse 6’4” 215 big pkg SCB/Coverage LB (64.6 PB QB)
    D. Harmon FS (60.6 PB QB)

    Patricia has the ability to run 3 front – 8DB scheme
    N. Williams (27.5 TP), D,Shelton NT (18 TP), T. Flowers (53.5 TP)
    J. Collins JLB
    Oruwariye CB, J. Kearse SCB/LB, Tavai ILB, Walker Box S, Coleman SCB (84.6 bott 6 QB)
    D. Harmon FS

  118. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Yeah…there is no other team that has acquired two potential second pairing D in the last five years.

    It’s remarkable unless you actually take a look.

    Then there is the case of a top six winger.

    Anyone get one in the last five years?

    Vancouver got four.

    Of course, another strawman.

    You said “gruel” outside the lottery pick.

    I respond by positing that there are numerous “non-gruel”.

    You move the goal posts by posting that all other teams draft good players.

    Just like you being wrong about Berglund, wrong about Puljujarvi having zero value you are wrong about nothing but “gruel”.

  119. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Of course, another strawman.

    You said “gruel” outside the lottery pick.

    I respond by positing that there are numerous “non-gruel”.

    You move the goal posts by posting that all other teams draft good players.

    Just like you being wrong about Berglund, wrong about Puljujarvi having zero value you are wrong about nothing but “gruel”.

    Gruel.

    Berglund and Pulujarvi are distant bells that you keep ringing incessantly.

    It is so tiresome,.

  120. jp says:

    I get it. We agree on the ideal outcome I think (for me that would be Puljujarvi and Benning for a 3C solution).

    Only other thing I’ll add is that a 2nd round pick now would be better than a 2nd round pick next year (if an better deal for Puljujarvi doesn’t materialize between now and next year).

  121. pts2pndr says:

    Curious but wasn’t that through the time that Montreal had first pick of the kids from Quebec and then picked in order from the rest of players available.

  122. ashley says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey,

    I was more thinking that if they had just drafted Segechev instead of JP. There seemed to be some rumoured interest from the usual Oilers sources leading up to the draft.

  123. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Gruel.

    Berglund and Pulujarvi are distant bells that you keep ringing incessantly.

    It is so tiresome,.

    Bear, Bouchard, Jones, Yamamoto – far from “gruel”.

    Yes, correcting you and reading you change the conversation as oppossed to admitting error can indeed be tiresome, I agree.

  124. Georgexs says:

    defmn: Long term success in a capped league is obviously tied to drafting and I fully expect Holland to try and grab a pick for Benning. If he gets a 6th for KRussell I will call that a win as well.

    But the thing about draft picks after the 1st round is that you are almost always looking at 4 years before they are a help to an NHL team so they are very much in the ‘long term success’ column. There are exceptions, of course, but they are more in the ‘I found a ten dollar bill on the floor of the bus’ category.

    But while long term success is tied to good drafting you have to have short term success first so that it can grow into long term.

    This team has holes. We all know where they are and more or less agree on the urgency of filling them so while I agree that drafting has to be the path to success year over year you have to get those 12 ‘core’ positions filled first so that we don’t waste more McDavid and Draisaitl years.

    Right now I am in the ‘3rd line centre is the biggest need’ camp. I don’t for a minute think the Oilers have an asset in the minors that can get that player by himself but there are some pieces that might help if they can find a team that has a different set of needs or scenarios.

    Is Jones blocked by Nurse and Klefbom with top 4 potential? I can see an argument for that. Samoroukov and Broberg are also in any conversation about future LD’s.

    Does Jones (who I really like – even more than most) plus Puljujarvi get you a 22-23 year old centre in the AHL built to play 3rd line minutes within the next year? Is Puljujarvi even necessary to that discussion?

    I don’t know the answer to those questions and I am as reluctant as anybody to trade one of our young dmen because they all look so shiny and bright right now but I want a young defensively minded centre for that spot and I have limited purchasing power so I am reluctant to spend any of it on draft picks until my current roster is filled in.

    And that is why I don’t trade young Jesse this summer for a promise that is 4 years in the future. I hold all my chips until I see the prize I want.

    Other than that I don’t care if Jesse stays in Europe for another year. The Oilers own his rights until he is 27, I believe, and his value can go down some but not enough that I am willing to move him until I see if he can help me fill the current roster with a prospect rather than a draft pick.

    “This team has holes. We all know where they are…”

    Where are the holes?

    “Right now I am in the ‘3rd line centre is the biggest need’ camp… I want a young defensively minded centre for that spot…”

    Sheahan’s not young. I’m not sure I can say he’s defensive minded though. On one hand, you have the other team scoring at a legendary 3.32 goals per 60 against him 5v5. Otoh, he plays the most PK minutes of any Oiler forward and gives up a stingy 5.41 goals per 60. It’s confusing. On the PK, he plays against the other team’s best offensive players. Even if Tippett has been matching him against the same tough players at 5v5, why are the results so different? Why can he defend and not defend? Or why can the team defend and not defend when he’s on the ice?

    What’s clear though is Sheahan (and the team with Sheahan on the ice) doesn’t score. If you’re looking for and get a younger version of our current 3C, a “defensively minded centre”, I’m back to wondering where those holes everyone knows about are.

    In 2013, MacT said ““In today’s NHL, you really have to have a threat to score at some point, even marginally.” In 2020, it’s not enough to be a threat to score, you actually have to score. No matter how defensively minded your young 3C’s game is, he’s getting scored on. He’s gotta at least respond.

    “And that is why I don’t trade young Jesse this summer for a promise that is 4 years in the future. I hold all my chips until I see the prize I want.”

    This is exactly right. JP scored around a point per game in a pro league in his age 21 season. Liiga can’t be that far off from the AHL, can it? He’s a 4th overall pick. Someone will give us something real, something further down the road than an out of the first round draft pick. JP’s our problem but there are a lot of GM’s trying to solve a lot of their own problems out there.

    Holland’s doing the right thing here.

  125. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Bear, Bouchard, Jones, Yamamoto – far from “gruel”.

    Yes, correcting you and reading you change the conversation as oppossed to admitting error can indeed be tiresome, I agree.

    Everyone of them a secondary player that every team in the league can replicate.

    Gruel.

    Just Vancouver….

    Hughes >>>Bouchard.
    Boeser>>>Yamamoto
    Rafferty>>>Jones

    Bear looks like a player..I wonder if Jett Woo will catch him.

  126. Georgexs says:

    Harpers Hair: Thin gruel outside the first overall lottery pick.

    1. Gruel is thin by definition.

    2. WG said you were sharp.

  127. Harpers Hair says:

    Georgexs: 1. Gruel is thin by definition.

    2. WG said you were sharp.

    WG was right.

  128. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Should probably screen shot the above comment.

    Obviously not interesting in a mature conversation.

    Malkin
    Panarin
    Yamamoto
    Marchand

    https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=y&team=ALL&pos=S&loc=B&toi=200&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

    Wow…time to go for a cleanse OP…that’s just nonsense.

  129. jp says:

    Harpers Hair: Then there is the case of a top six winger.
    Anyone get one in the last five years?
    Vancouver got four.

    I wasn’t going to comment, but weren’t you guys talking about drafted players?

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Everyone of them a secondary player that every team in the league can replicate.

    Gruel.

    Just Vancouver….

    Hughes >>>Bouchard.
    Boeser>>>Yamamoto
    Rafferty>>>Jones

    Bear looks like a player..I wonder if Jett Woo will catch him.

    Those comparisons have nothing to do with the point – those players are not gruel.

    Bergeron >>>> Horvat

    I guess Horvat is Gruel.

    Also. Rafferty >>>> Jones is a pure troll comment

    Also. This year, Boeser was not >>>> Yamamoto.

    Yamamoto had more G/G, P/G with all but no PP time, oh, and for under $900K.

  131. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Wow…time to go for a cleanse OP…that’s just nonsense.

    Pettersson is gruel.

    That’s about as sensical as your trolling this evening.

    P.S. 3rd in the NHL in P/60 this season (min 200 minutes) – nonsense or simply a fact?

  132. Lowetide says:

    You know, agreeing to disagree is a thing. Just saying.

  133. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Ah. Totally agree.

    I dismissed Sergachev outright at the time. The Leftorium was (is!) strong, so he wasn’t on my radar.

    My focus was on PLD and Turtle because I didn’t see JP falling to us.

  134. Georgexs says:

    Harpers Hair: WG was right.

    If WG was right then the board is also right: your preferred character class is troll

    or

    you really believe KY and Bear are gruel in which case WG was clearly not right.

  135. Cowboy says:

    RIO Colby Cave.

    My Heart is so sad right now. Everything I have heard about Colby and is family is about how amazing people they are. The world is not as good a place as it was yrsterday.

  136. Death By Misadventure says:

    OriginalPouzar: Well, in 2015, they get a McDavid, a Bear and a Jones (and also a Marino but….).

    In 2017 they got a Yamamoto and ______ – there are a couple or three legit NHL prospects.

    In 2018, well, its too early to say but there is a Bouchard and a couple other legit NHL prospects.

    Well when I posted my comment I was going a lot further back in my thoughts. Specifically 2006 and the gagner, plante, and nash draft. It was my great hope and it sucked. Opportunity missed. And that was followed by a lot of missed opportunities. Agreed though that drafts have gotten better.

  137. deardylan says:

    Goodbye Colby. Your time was short but how you lived and interacted with others was full. We will miss you. Goodbye Colby. RIP

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