All Dressed Up With No Place To Go

by Lowetide

The Edmonton Oilers could have exceeded the price to acquire Taylor Hall and Curtis Lazar Sunday night, but general manager Ken Holland held back his first round selection and various prospects for today or down the line. My guess is either Holland never pursued Hall, or that the Sabres wanted that first-round pick badly. Either way, there are limited options available in the trade market today.

THE ATHLETIC!

I’m proud to be writing for The Athletic, and pleased to be part of a great team with Daniel Nugent-Bowman and Jonathan Willis. Here is our recent work.

EXCEEDING BJORK

Anders Bjork is a player I’m familiar with, having tracked him as a Bruins prospect and then watched him push toward an NHL career as a regular. His five on five scoring is shy, per 60 minutes her has delivered 1.36 pts-60 so far in his NHL career.

To give you an idea about what that represents, Joakim Nygard has produced 1.33 pts-60 in his 33 games with Edmonton. Drake Caggiula delivered 1.50 pts-60 during his career with the Oilers. These are not difficult players to find.

Bjork played just 29 AHL games before elevating to the Bruins, owing partly to his turning pro at 21. His pts-game number in the AHL (.759) is shy of Ryan McLeod’s totals this season (.917 pts-60) at age 21.

I don’t know, because Buffalo may love Bjork’s skill set, but my guess is McLeod will have a more substantial career than Bjork. Reasons include speed, position (McLeod is a center) and draft pedigree.

So, Holland could have acquired a 2021 second-round pick by trading a prospect (one of the LHD prospects, like Dmitri Samorukov) and Edmonton’s fourth-round pick in 2021 for something inside the top 60.

Trading McLeod and a second-round pick acquired for Samorukov is a dear price. Taylor Hall is worth that price.

Conclusion? Holland didn’t pursue Hall to the point of exhaustion. Was it a mistake? If Holland doesn’t make a deal before the deadline, I’ll call it opportunity missed.

TRADE LIST

I wrote about Edmonton’s LW options at The Athletic this morning, TSN’s trade board includes several of the names I mentioned plus a few more interesting names. I expect the fourth-round pick in 2021 is headed out, and there’s a small chance a bigger deal arrives but this could be quiet.

THE 2021 TOP 21

At this point in the season, the Oilers first-round selection is No. 21 overall. Here are the 21 best players in the 2021 draft.

  1. RW Dylan Guenther, Edmonton Oil Kings. 
  2. LC Mason McTavish Peterborough Petes.
  3. LD Owen Power, Michigan Wolverines.
  4. RD Brandt Clarke Barrie Colts.
  5. LW Matthew Beniers, Michigan Wolverines.
  6. LD Luke Hughes, U.S. National Development Team
  7. LC Zachary Bolduc, Rimouski Oceanic.
  8. RW Chaz Lucius, U.S. National Development Team
  9. LW William Eklund, Djurgardens.
  10. RC Ryder Korczak, Moose Jaw Warriors.
  11. LC Cole Sillinger, Sioux Falls Stampede
  12. LW Kent Johnson, Michigan Wolverines.
  13. LW Zachary L’Heureux, Halifax Mooseheads
  14. G Sebastian Cossa, Edmonton Oil Kings.
  15. LD Daniil Chayka Guelph Storm.
  16. LW Fedor Svechkov, Ladia Togliatti.
  17. LC Francesco Pinelli, Kitchener Rangers
  18. LD Simon Edvinsson, Vasteras IK
  19. RC Xavier Bourgault, Shawinigan Cataractes
  20. G Jesper Wallstedt, Lulea.
  21. LW Brennan Othmann, Fint Firebirds

Othmann has a great shot but doesn’t use it enough. Sounds like an Oilers forward to me! I think there’s a chance Edmonton picks a goalie this year, and there are tons of blue near the top this season. A reminder that European players on my list spike late, as I always get around to those leagues last.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, we continue the trade deadline on TSN 1260. Guests include Jason Gregor, Jason Strudwick, Matt Kassian and others as we head toward the deadline. I’m not certain we’ll see anything more than the fourth round pick for Luke Glendening, but we’ll have fun and hope you join us. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter.

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pts2pndr

Good morning LT. The little green box beside your name that says author should say author extraordinaire. Your writing and sharing of parts of your life are both hart warming and nostalgic. Thank You!

pts2pndr

Pun intended😉

hunter1909

How many of you want Playoff Death March?

JimmyV1965

I’m disappointed that we didn’t trade for Hall or some other impact winger, but I don’t think it would be enough to make a difference. When you’re two best wingers are sophomores, you’re probably not a contender. I love JP and Yama, but they should not be your best wingers at this stage in their careers. 

kelvjn

Pointa per 60 stats taken this year should be correlated to own defense pairing. Big drop off in quality to move puck between Nurse-Barrie to Russell-Bear and Jones/Lagesson – Larsson.

When CMD plays with RNH, more thna than likely Draisaitl is on the other line and can legitimately be deployed with the Nurse-Barrie pairing.

winchester

Chin up Oiler fans, there is always next year…..

barf

Material Elvis

They are going to the playoffs this season. Relax and enjoy.

Harpers Hair

Watching the Avalanche against Arizona.

It’s like watching the Harlem Globetrotters…I have never seen a team play with such pace.

Brilliant hockey.

leadfarmer

Great
now go away!!

wolf8888

Harlem Globetrotters outshot 37 – 19 and won 4-2 including an empty netter against a .500 team with their 3rd or 4th string goalie in net. Wow! Amazing!

Side

Who tweeted this?

Harpers Hair

I could if you like.

Side

No thanks.

Yegfoundation

How sad are you that your Canucks aren’t in the playoffs this season?
You picked the Flames to finish second in the North division, well ahead of the Oilers.
#shitthebed

hunter1909

Thank you for your CKUA. The greatest radio station in my life.

quade

Did HH work at CKUA? This is the second time I have heard this…how do we know this?

Scungilli Slushy

Most of us like Joe Sakic as a GM>

He trades players a lot.

The can’t be traded status can only apply to players like Connor, and maybe Leon moving ahead.

Or you get the absolute joy of rebuilds.

Which are avoidable if the management is on the ball. Trade assets that perhaps won’t sign, or are being replaced from within ideally, before they become your own ‘rentals’.

It’s the way to replenish Pollack style. Absolutely doable, and the team can cope, if Joe S can do it. Right? The team would rather win than carry around dead weight I’m sure.

Friends forever when business is done.

David

True, the only players I definitely am not moving on from are McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nurse. Contracts have to be structured accordingly.

Harpers Hair

Nurse will price himself out of that equation.

He’s very good…but not elite.

Ice Sage

In the Norris conversation this year, friendo

Harpers Hair

No he isn’t.

Material Elvis

Care to make a bet that Nurse gets votes for the Norris? Oh never mind.

Redbird62

Nurse is on the boards currently in Vegas at 15/1 tied for 8th lowest odds with Shea Theodore and Ryan Pulock. That’s the same odds as Hellebuyck to win the Vezina. By the way your boy Demko isn’t listed despite what you said about him a month ago (largely based on an article out of Vancouver). And there are no longer odds listed for Quin Hughes either. And yes, I understand the odds reflect an element of the betting action on each player.

Being in the conversation doesn’t mean anyone thinks he’s going to win it or even that he might be a finalist. If that were the case, no one is in the conversation for the Hart Trophy other than McDavid. Why even waste their time going through the charade of listing 3 finalists.

kelvjn

So is Jeff Petry. This is a strange year.

OriginalPouzar

I keep reading, and hearing, about “career years” and the Oilers needing to go in because of career years. This is mainly related to McDavid, Drai and Nurse.

Other may have different opinions but I don’t consider this a “career year” for any of those three, in particular McDavid and Drai, in the sense that they won’t repeat their performances or provide even superior performances.

In fact, I fully expect McDavid and Drai to be better over the next few years. I don’t consider either in their primes quite yet. Sure, maybe they are in their “offensive primes” but I think they will sustain this production for the terms of their contract. I don’t think they are in their primes as far as their overall games – both players are still improving various facets of their games and I think their primes, as overall players are likely in the next 3-5 years, maybe 3-7 years.

This could be a “career year” for Nurse in the sense of pure offensive production – this may not be repeatable, let alone improvable. At the same time, Nurse has improved every year of his pro career so far and that may not stop. D-men continue to improve their games well past their 25th birthday.

I don’t consider any of these players as having reached their peak performance.

jtblack

So whats the plan? Keep waiting ? And waiting? When do you push your chips in if you were GM? When these guys are 27? 30? Or do you just wait and build from within

leadfarmer

Well you don’t become a contender because you hope to be one.
clearly not ready to push the chips in this year. Maybe next year

Sierra

It can’t always be “next year” country

GMB3

it can. We just need to keep our fingers crossed that this rookie forward is the impact forward we need! Just like we’ve been hoping since we traded a topline wing for a 2RD. They are easy to find, Pete assured me.

Sierra

in Oil country the next rookie up is always the saviour

90s fan

But we are improving every single year! What more can you ask? If we are better next year then this year? Oh boy!

OriginalPouzar

The plan is exactly as Holland has stated, from his first day on the job – to create stability first and a team that will make the playoffs, year after year after year – giving multiple chances.

He is pretty much there at this point but is still crawling out from under the massive deadweight (negative value contracts for term and dead money). He’s made one signifigant mis-step so far – Kassian – the only bad contract with term he’s acquired (Neal doesn’t count given it was the price to divest Lucic).

As to the 2nd part – When the bet makes sense and there is a reasonable possibility of success.

Holland didn’t even go “all in” last season and we see the effects of the trades made as far as asset currency – spending similar assets in another season (and a weird one at that with no fans and no playoff revenue, etc.) that would not reasonably lead to a materially longer playoff run would crater the ability to do so next season when, presumably, the team will be in an even better situation.

Connor, Leon and Darnell aren’t getting any worse over the next few years, and likely better – these aren’t “career years” – these are what these guys are going to bring for the foreseeable future. One would presume Nuge will be better next season or the player(s) acquired with the $6M will provide more value. Barrie’s money can be spent on the the forwards with Bouch stepping in to the every day role, for example.

Anyways, I’m rambling now but the key is “multiple chances” and timing the years to be a material player in-season.

jtblack

Well said. I dont disagree. This season I am content with Hollamd doing very little.

But I would like to see him make a hockey trade in the summer or soon; to bring in a legit Top 6 / 3 C or whatever. Not hoping to grab one from the scrap heap.

Every player drafted from here (2021) forward wont arrive and make an impact until Conners 10th season … IMO Holland will have to start selling some of the future for NOW ….

OriginalPouzar

Well, yes, this coming off-season, presumably we aren’t looking at the scrap heap for the Kahun’s, Turris’ and Ennis’ of the league.

At the same time, Holland shouldn’t need to turn to the scrap heap – he will still need to find value and ensure he’s not “overspending” as, while there is lots of cap space available, there are big holes to fill (the current 1LW, 2RW, 1RD, RD, etc.).

What Holland will have is the ability to “shape” the team better – to choose where he is going to spend his material dollars. He can, for example, bring Larsson back and not Barrie, rely on Bouch being ready for at least 3RD and PP and spend the delta up front.

jtblack

The other reason for my “pending impatience” ….

Tomorrows health is promised to nobody. Croz and Malkin have both battled injury … Drai has been healthy and McDavid fairly healthy. That can change ay any moment and present “a lost yr or more” …

So IMO, starting 2022 playoffs, when the 2 Superstars are Healthy; Kenny needs to add

OriginalPouzar

McDavid has not been “fairly healthy” in my opinion – he’s suffered two major, multiple month, injuries. The only reason he didn’t miss the majority of a second season was his knee injury was in the last game of the season. Add that to his yearly 3 weeks sick…….

Harpers Hair

16 teams make the playoffs…many year after year.

Hoping some random draft picks will make the difference is a loser strategy.

As one GM said…there are teams hoping to get pregnant and other teams are hoping to have a baby.

Spending year after year trying to get pregnant while other teams have the smarts to assemble a team to contend NOW is what good GM’s do.

You will make a huge mistake trying to build a 1/16 team…that’s easy.

What’s hard is building an elite team.

If your GM can’t that, he should find a new line of work.

Ice Sage

Agreed – goodbye Benning!

Material Elvis

The Oilers are about to make the playoffs year after year. I forget….did you have the Oilers making the playoffs this season (year over year)?

OriginalPouzar

Of course the draft pick can be used for selection, the player developed and used in the lineup (hopefully) – could even turn out to be a value contract, a solid player, a star, etc.

Of course, the pick could also be used leading up to the draft as currency.

The pick, even after selected, will become a real prospect that will have value at next year’s deadline as well.

Trade deadline 2021 is not the only time the asset has trade value.

GMB3

If you think Darnell Nurse scores on 10-12% of his shots next year well… our GM thought Zack Kassian was going to continue to score on 25% of his shots… at least you aren’t alone.

OriginalPouzar

I would encourage you to go back and re-read what i posted as I expressly spoke to not expecting Nurse to be repeating this production offensively – of course, Nurse’s game and bump this year is far more than the goals.

GMB3

Is it really?? his individual underlying numbers are a mixed bag. I’d blame the small dip in xGA/60 on being dragged down by Tyson Barrie though.

This will probably fall on deaf ears as this is not a numbers blog, but aging curves exist for things like WAR too, catch-all numbers that attempt to quantify defensive impacts vs offensive impacts.

Theres a reasonable chance McDavid defies these odds longer than most but I’m less sure about draisaitl. I’m not sure it’s likely that Draisaitl is a better player in 3 years than he is today. I’d bet that the 2021 first round pick has worse odds of being an impact guy in 3 years though. Shit hopefully Broberg is by then!

godot10

Nurse has been one of the top 20 5vs5 point scoring D for the last three or four years. He can now argue that this is not an accident.

kelvjn

If you plan to go all-in relying on Nurse will continue to score 12% of his shot for the remaining of the year, well…

GMB3

This I agree with. Expecting him to score on 12% of his shots going forward would be ridiculous. I hope Ken learns about PDO after watching Zack Kassian this season and agrees.

I think that bolstering the second line with an addition would have mitigated the regression to a certain extent though.

Reja

Bring back Sather.

wolf8888

Leafs and Jets both lose. A good result.

OriginalPouzar

Wait, Jets lost to Ottawa, in regulation?

What does this mean?

wolf8888

Where the HH are the free points they were promised?

Harpers Hair

A great Twitter thread here from Rom:

Romulus’ Apotheosis
@RomulusNotNuma

Let’s get somethings out of the way on the Oilers.
When you send Ennis out and claim it’s for cap reasons, when you have Shore/Turris still on the team, I don’t believe you.
You’re making decisions for reasons other than winning.

David

Ennis is better than Turris but I’m not sure he’s better than Shore.

OriginalPouzar

Ennis, at $1M, passed through waivers, twice – including after vitriol was spewed at the GM for exposing him the second time.

Ennis was awful in his recent chance on McDavid’s wing – a complete non-factor.

I like Ennis and his versatility to play through the lineup, however, he is an NHL tweener at this point and, frankly, over the last 10 games (apx), Shore has brought more to the team on a nightly basis.

Statements like “this decision is based on something other than living” from the pretentious clan on twitter are something else – and they use the phrase “smartest man in the room syndrome”.

Harpers Hair

Both Shore and Ennis have 3 points in their last 10 games…are you seeing something else?

Material Elvis

Shore has 2 goals in his last 4 games. Cherry picking stats and framing them however you want is fun!

Harpers Hair

OP picked 10 games…not me.

4 games is just a dumb sample size.

Shore has 4 goals ALL SEASON.

Material Elvis

I would post a list of well known players who are tied or below Shore in goals, but my thumbs would get sore from typing.

OriginalPouzar

Yes, I have and its fairly clear to anyone that has watched the games.

Shore has been highly effective on the PK and created offence on the PK and momentum – he has also formed an effective 3rd line, yes, 3rd line, with JJ and Archie.

If Ennis and Shore have the same point total in a stretch of games, that is not a good look on Ennis.

GMB3

you’re saying he’s acting pretentious? Is this a joke OP? Have you just kaiboshed analytics as useless because Holland has?

devin Shore is running a 35GF% and 39xGF%. His line routinely gets killed at 5v5, and it absolutely matches the eye test. I missed last Tuesday’s game, but I’ve watched every other game this season. He’s a non-factor at 5v5 and I’m not sure the 1:06 he averages on the PK makes up for that.

Sierra

How does this have a handful of downvotes and yet not one response countering your points.

GMB3

Because if Dave Tippett likes him he must be right. Gotta toe the party line around these parts these days.

Material Elvis

I can’t really see why Shore is your target at the moment. There are several players who are underperforming 5v5 and lots of positions that could use upgrading. Do you think Tippett’s ideal 3LW is Shore?! James Neal and his $5.75M should be your target. Or Zack Kassian making $3.2M (2G, 3A). They aren’t winning the shot or goal shares either.

GMB3

Devin Shore was the aforementioned player. I didn’t bring him into this conversation. OP brought up how noticeably strong his play has been (it hasn’t, by neither the eye test or the numbers). Yes, Zack Kassian hasn’t been very good, pretty much as he has been in the bottom six his entire career, and as was predicted by anyone who understands PDO. Who held the gun to Holland’s head there?

GMB3

James Neal isn’t a target because we knew he would be bad at 5v5, but the other option (Lucic) was no longer tenable in Edmonton.

Material Elvis

There you go. $9M tied up in non- or underperforming assets. That can get you the type of players that push Khaira down, Archie down, Haas as a spare, Shore down, etc. Currently, they don’t have the cap space to do that so essentially they would be replacing Shore with a different Shore. Holland needs to clean up both problems this summer. Neal will have to be bought out. We’ll see how it goes with Zack but if he can’t get his shit together, Holland will have to spend assets to move him. They can make big strides with a few key additions (subtractions?).

GMB3

… Ken Holland signed Zack Kassian. Why does he get a pass on Devin Shore being bad at his job because we didn’t have cap room because he has wasted cap on Chiasson, Khaira, Kassian, and you could probably throw Barrie in that mix too (if you’re a numbers guy, if not, disregard). Sekera buyout as well.

im not sure I see the “gotcha!” there. The fact he signed Zack Kassian to that deal is enough to make us ask questions about what he would have done with that 9 million dollars available. He wasted 3.25 of it. That’s on him. Could have it been spent more prudently? Absolutely! He could have bought out James Neal too (I think), that would have given him approx 7 million dollars more to spend. It’s not like he didn’t have options.

Sierra

I think this is a fair post.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Ding ding ding!

kelvjn

Truth be told, the Oilers has an ensemble cast of tweeners forwards who are no better or worse than every other teams 4th line. This is the reason everyone that is not named CMD, LD, RHN, JP and KY passed the waiver unclaimed at least once.

Arguing Ennis over Shore is literally arguing over the deck chair seating plan on the fabled sinking Titanic.

Shore is a center and is younger is probably why he is preferred over Ennis on the energy/checking line.

GMB3

I’m arguing that Devin Shore has been objectively poor.

If we are comparing the Edmonton Oilers to the Titanic, then maybe we should reevaluate the job Holland has done to this point. I’d think selling high on Barrie to recoup assets would have been prudent. I’ve been told many times today how important it is to gather these assets (though what’s done with these assets is far more important)

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

By what metrics are Shore (.28ppg)-JJ (.35 ppg)-Archie (.21ppg) an effective third line?

Shore and Archie do not score and they have terrible underlying numbers 5v5. They are part of the problem. The only reason folks are so high on the line this year is because they are not quite as rancid as the Oilers record-breakingly terrible bottom-6 the past two seasons.

OriginalPouzar

They have only played 50 minutes together and they have sawed off goals (50%) which is a win for the Oilers. This has also been in the last 10 games which, as we know, was a trying 10 games for the team schedule wise with postponed games, days on end in hotels with no games, re-scheduled games on back to back, re-visits to MTL, etc.

Also 3 major parts of the PK.

Scungilli Slushy

Yes

Doing what is expected based on what you need to contribute, based on what role you are filling. What the coaches are asking you to do.

It’s self explanatory if you appreciate hockey or pro sports.

I’m not trying to condescend, but it’s a job and a business, right? Where winning is the only thing that counts, unlike traditional commerce, where you might take a loss to do a solid for future business.

Pro sports athletes don’t have a 20 year or more potential typically, and if they do they are calling their own shots. Do it now or in the near future. No need to feel sorry for the worst player making 600 000 US per year or whatever.

Material Elvis

Rom is a smart guy but those kinds of statements seem to be based on emotion rather than logic. Sure, send Ennis and Turris to the minors or taxi squad, but replace them with what? There isn’t anyone on the Condors or around the league (from the bottom feeders) that is going to step in and make an impact. And they have zero knowledge of any potential moves that Holland may have attempted to make.

leadfarmer

I’m actually quite happy with Archie Khaira Shore 4th line that not only would I keep them together. I would bring them back next season.
and by the way all three pk which is what I want my 4th line to do.
Also Shores pk GA/60 is 5.82 which is really good on this team
Ennis does not pk
so Ummmm Go Fish!!

leadfarmer

In case you are wondering Turris pkga/60 is 12.86 for comparison
Puke emoji

leadfarmer

And in case you guys haven’t noticed we don’t have a bottom 5 pk anymore and have risen to middle of the pack

Harpers Hair

21st is not middle of the pack…it’s bottom third.

jp

21st is not middle of the pack…it’s bottom third.

Tied for 15th in PK goals against.

17th in PK GA/60.

16th in PK%.

Do you even try?

Material Elvis

It’s difficult for him when he doesn’t have a Tweet to copy and paste.

iHockeyWpg

Even more difficult since it seems the mouse to copy said tweet is missing along with his squirrel. Sirens on the Island, another trip to the emergency room for HH……

Side

For someone who claims to be an independent thinker, you sure struggle with original thought when you don’t have someone else’s hand to hold.

leadfarmer

Once again
Go Fish!!

Harpers Hair

The Canucks had small group workouts today and Friday’s game appears to be a go.

https://www.nhl.com/news/vancouver-canucks-practice-after-covid-19-outbreak/c-323577534

McSorley33

I don’t get the Kulikov trade at all ….just like I didn’t get the Mike Green deadline deal last year. But the price was close to zero so…

But,in general, I have to say – I am happy Holland kept his powder dry.

Folks, this summer is where the action will be.

Ken Holland *has* to have a big summer here.

godot10

Kulikov might be better than Russell, might be more defensively reliable than Jones, and might more skilled than Lagesson.

If none of the above, than cheap depth.

Someone

Over on HF the response is very positive for the Oil. The trade probably means Tippet has made a decision on the young talent which isn’t a great thing, but the cost was cheap I guess.

Material Elvis

He doesn’t trust Jones or Lagesson. Those two are about to be finished for the season, barring injury. I wonder if that will actually benefit the team in the long run (they appear less attractive to Seattle)?

Sierra

But wouldn’t that mean that Seattle will be interested in one of Benson, McLeod and Marody, which many are looking to make big impact on the Oilers roster next year?

Material Elvis

Notable players exempt from selection: Evan BouchardPhilip Broberg, Raphael Lavoie, Dmitri Samorukov, Joakim Nygard, Gaetan Haas, Ryan McLeod, Kirill Maksimov, Olivier Rodrique, and all of the players drafted in 2020.

pts2pndr

There could be a set back with Koekkoek. There could be some uncertainty with one of the other left shot D. We don’t know what we don’t know.

Profit

Koekkoek is ahead of schedule according to Holland today. He made a huge deal talking about how Kulikov spent a ton of time killing penalties. That by itself is enough to push him into the top 4.

You can never have enough top 4 NHL D-men. If the Oilers want to challenge the Leafs they have to have some D depth. They go into the second round shorthanded, it’s over and Holland knows that. So… d-depth and hope the forwards pull it together for a bit of a run. It’s not a bad bet.

OriginalPouzar

This year, Kulikov is a legit 2nd pairing 2LD that kills penalties – by ice time and deployment (45% of his TOI vs. elites).

Willis’ article at The Athletic provides more detailed analysis and a fairly solid argument that he is a major upgrade on Russell – clean zone entires alone.

Indy

Yes, I agree with you Marty, glad Kenny kept his powder dry. Blow the load over the summer when the roster flexibility is real. Sans a Barrie re-signing please. Got me thinking of the great Motorhead song….Keep Your Powder Dry:

Don’t move, hold your tongue
Don’t take too long, don’t get it wrong
Time has other first to fry
Just keep your powder dry
Keep your powder dry
Keep your powder dry

Last edited 6 months ago by Indy
leadfarmer

Kulikov had had a very very good season dragging Pk around while playing 2nd pairing minutes
https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8475179

Material Elvis

Holy shit. His numbers without Subban are rock solid. Subban’s without Kulikov are horrendous.

Last edited 6 months ago by Material Elvis
Primetime

The forwards are obviously an issue going forward and must be fixed in the offseason. What if Holland realized there is no way to compete with the forwards of TO/WPG with deadline acquisitions given no assets to trade or cap space, and figured the only way to win THIS year was to trying to strengthen D and hope for a McDrai offence output just enough to outscore?
He actually balanced out the D with his trade today allowing:

Nurse-Bear (1st pairing, most minutes, brings D and O)
Kulikov-Barrie (Kulikov played with the ultimate rover in Subban and had good numbers, keeps Barrie off the big minutes 1st pair with a defensive presence and playing the right side)
Jones-Larsson(again puck mover/defender on each pair)

PK/Late period lead: Nurse, Bear, Kulikov, Larsson
PP: Barrie (Nurse)

Just like MacT surprising Detroit in ’06 by playing the trap…we can be a defensive machine! Surely Kenny still has nightmares about that series….

TheGreatBigMac

Seeing Tip execute a playoffs surprise on D, Dry, or otherwise would be so awesome!

Darth Tu

Oh man. Or we take this another step further and go for the ultimate defensive machine with 7 D.

Nurse-Barrie
Kulikov-Bear
Lagesson-Larsson
Russell

Barrie’s in there for PP abilities. Everybody else just defends like crazy. And everyone weeps, including us. We play to limit SOG and hope that McD can pick off a puck from the point man and break for 1 on 1s.

The horrifying future is now.

rickithebear

Kulikov is now our 4 th best (31 x 7dmen) #120 goal differential def dman behind #16 Russel, #60 larsson, #63 Lagesson.

Best goal differential Def dman acquisition was?
mette off waivers by OTT.

leadfarmer

This is funny

leadfarmer

If I was going to make a bet for most Ricki D I think I would have listed about 300 other D before even thinking Mete

Someone

How many of todays deals would have been good for this team? How could Ken Holland have taken this team from a low end playoff team to champions based on what others have done, and what would the cost have been? It seems to me we’re short at least one top 6 winger, one or two quality 3rd liners, and a LD that Tippet is more comfortable playing than Jones/Lagesson. At the rates paid, that could have cost every pick we have this year, as well as next years first, possibly second (I’m basing this off of the Foligno, Bennet and Mantha deals). That’s a team that’s still a longshot to win a cup, and severely hamstrings future deadlines, as well as the flow of cheap young talent.

I understand the emotions and disappointment. I wish we could have picked up Hall for the price paid. Thing is, I don’t see the point in throwing away 2 drafts to lose in the conference finals. Draft picks are at peak value draft day, if the first is getting dealt it might as well be for a long term solution at the draft. This is a franchise that has been a total clusterfuck top to bottom for a decade and a half. This wasn’t ever going to be the year to go for it. Suggesting that playing it conservatively at the deadline this year is somehow on par with Chia or Tambelinis body of work is ludicrous. One positive covid test to McDavid in a playoff round probably ends our hopes, why take that chance?

Profit

McD is highly protected already given his previous COVID infection, but your point stands with Draisaitl, Smith, Nurse and a few others. This is a *very* risky year to go all-in. The number of unknown unknowns has never been higher (outside of the Bubble last year and we all saw how that went). What will playoffs look like? What happens if a team goes down a la Vancouver but in the playoffs? What happens if all of the US teams are vaccinated before the playoffs but the Canadian teams aren’t – that instantly makes the chance a Canadian team goes all the way lower than that of an American team, all else held equal.

I’m on the “trade the 1st” bandwagon, but doing it with a flat cap, massive uncertainty and an asymetric risk profile (higher downside than up) makes me believe conservatism makes the most sense right now. And by conservatism, I mean trading it in the summer not at the trade deadline.

Plus Holland didn’t move any UFAs which is, absolutely, a cost to this team and needs to be considered as such, even if it isn’t a sexy as going elephant hunting.

Someone

I agree with you, the first needs to be on the table in the offseason. At this point there’s no doubt what the weaknesses of this team are, and the roster needs to be upgraded. No more half measures, find some proven wingers and a real 3rd line center. I think Holland will at least find some wingers to fill out the top 6.

Dac189

I’m happy with the deadline. Kulikov seems to be well liked by his previous teams and will provide some stability for a coach that is spending too much time sheltering the 3LD.

The McDrai window is going to be open for the next 10+ years IMO(Similar to Sydney-Malkin window. CrosKin? MalSyd?).
Meaning players drafted in the next 5 years will still be valuable for the McDrai years and the draft picks will be worth a lot then.

Let’s have some fun though. From the trades made today, what could we have used to make us a playoff contender?

Hall-McDavid-Puljujarvi
RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Foligno-Zajac-Palmieri
Shore-Khaira-Archibald

Kulikov

I still don’t think they’re better than Colorado or TBL but they’re definitely much improved.

This costs us
2x 1st round picks. 1x second. 2x thirds. 2x 4ths.
They would also need to make some cap space.
Probably trade Neal away for another 1st and a 2nd.

Would be great for this playoffs but I prefer the long term plan.

Last edited 6 months ago by Dac189
GMB3

The McDrai window being open for the next 10 years is kind of rich, don’t you think? zero guarantee that either resign here after the debacle this org has been

Dac189

It’s a possibility but in my head I have McDavid and Drai retiring here. The following years will play a big role in whether that happens more than the first seasons.
This offseason is the first big test for Holland IMO. It has been since he first got the job.

GMB3

So he’s been on the job for 700 days and we’re gonna make it 800 or so before it’s a test for him? Zack Kassian contract was a pretty big test, imo.

Dac189

There’s also been good things though.
Dave Tippet is an above average coach. he’s gotten a couple career years out of players and has brought in many rookies. Bouchard a question mark..
Got rid of Lucic who I think was starting to hate playing here.
Smith, Barrie, Puljujarvi.
Seems to be drafting well.

My big note for the season is that the players seem happy and confident.

GMB3

Is Dave Tippett an above average coach? Is he the reason Darnell Nurse is shooting 12%? He brought in Lagesson, used him poorly. Continues to run Tyson Barrie on the first pair despite getting crushed by most metrics for the past ten games. I wouldn’t attribute Connor McDavid’s career season to Dave Tippett, more to Connor being Connor McDavid.

Ken Holland needed a forward in 2019 and picked Philip Broberg who is maybe two years away today. Holland had a number of good forwards to pick from and ended up going off the board to pick Broberg. I do really like some of his picks in later rounds though. Getting rid of Lucic’s buyout proof contract was a good move. I liked the Ennis and Kahun signings. I think the Barrie money was better spent elsewhere. Turris was a poor bet to play a defensive role as 3C.

Feels pretty mediocre to me.

jp

There is no guarantee. That’s definitely true.

But there’s also no argument that ‘debacle’ can be fairly used to describe the Oilers since Holland arrived, is there?

GMB3

I’d argue that Ken Holland hasn’t done enough in his two years here to really change the narrative that Edmonton pissed a good chunk of McDavids tenure here. We’re halfway to UFA, and as so many astute posters here have mentioned today, Edmonton is no where near strong enough to consider themselves contenders. Kyle Turris as 3C? Zack Kassian at 3.25? Surely we can acknowledge some of Edmonton’s cap issues are on Ken at this point in time. He’s been better than Chiarelli but far from knocked it out of the park

jp

I’m not suggesting Holland is beyond reproach.

He absolutely whiffed on Turris and the Kassian contract is looking as bad as it could one year(ish) later. He’s definitely made mistakes and it’s more than fair to argue whether he’s done enough.

Still, there’s no reasonable way to lump in the past 2 seasons with the DoD. The Oilers have been a playoff team for 2 straight seasons (12th in points % both years) after missing the previous 2 (or 12 out of 13 if you prefer).

If nothing else Holland has brought competence (and I think there’s lots of room for continue improvement to the team going forward).

GMB3

Being a league average team with two of the best players in the NHL doesn’t scream successful team building. Outside of getting rid of Lucic last season, Bear, Jones, and KY were the biggest contributors. Hat tip to Riley Sheahan on the PK but I’m not sure that made up for how bad he was at 5v5. Sure it may not be the DoD but that’s not the bar when you were gifted Connor McDavid due to organizational incompetence.

jp

Being a league average team with two of the best players in the NHL doesn’t scream successful team building. 

You started with debacle. The Holland Oilers are not a debacle.

He’s built the team in years 1 and 2 into a pretty clear cut playoff team while still dealing with his predecessor’s problems.

He needs to do more going forward, and maybe he’s not cut out for it. I don’t think that’s the case but this stuff does take time.

GMB3

The Zack Kassian contract looks as bad as it did the day it was signed.

jp

The Zack Kassian contract looks as bad as it did the day it was signed.

Strong disagreement on this one.

The contract going sideways was predictable. Lots of folks called it. No arguments there.

But Kassian was coming off a full year of being a good complementary 1st line player. He was scoring more (5v5) and had better on ice results than either Nuge or Puljujarvi do this year. Top 60 in the league in 5v5 scoring or something.

The contract looks much worse today.

pts2pndr

We may not have been great,but since the Oilers came into the NHL no other Canadian team has been as successful. The franchise has been as competently run since Holland took over as it was under Sather. We have a pipeline of good young talent brewing under with competent coaching. Our amateur scouting is very good. The only somewhat questionable part of the entire organization is pro scouting but I have seen improvement there as well. I am of the opinion that as a fan base, given the improvement, the organization needs to given the opportunity to complete what they have in place all the way to a championship.

Harpers Hair

The Oilers have the fewest points in the league in the salary cap era.

A few middling seasons after you have all those 1st overall picks gifted to you don’t change a thing.

OriginalPouzar

The most important seasons for those two re-signing are 3 and 4 seasons from now.

Not that I hope, or expect, this to happen, but the Oilers could miss the playoffs the next two years and that would mean nothing for a re-sign if they win the cup the following year.

GMB3

If the Oilers miss the playoffs the next two years I sure hope the 2021 first round pick ends up scoring 35 on the way to a surprise Stanley Cup win.

OriginalPouzar

It very well could – it would be like Holloway scoring 35 goals two years from now – not expected but not totally out of the realm of reasonableness.

Anyways, that’s not quite the point – the point was the important of team success in the years just prior to the contract expiries.

Sierra

If the Oilers miss the playoffs the next two years then there will be real problems, regardless of how much OP disagrees.

leadfarmer

Today answers the question of do I think Holland protects Klef in expansion draft?
Yes yes I do

OriginalPouzar

It was a silly question by Jones as Holland said two weeks ago that he will allow the rehab to take place and check in with Klef a bit before the expansion draft.

Justthestatsman

It wasn’t like that in the ‘olden’ days, but his style of reporting has grated on me for a while now. The silly questions seem to be more frequent. Earlier this year after McDavid had scorched the Flames for 5 points he asked Connor if he had texted Matthews to tease him, since Austin had only gotten 4 points against the Habs in the early game. I don’t remember the exact response, but Connor shut down the line of questioning fairly quickly with a classy response to a lame question.

David

Leavins said he thinks the Oilers will leave Klefbom unprotected. Not agreeing or disagreeing but he’s pulling that from somewhere no?

Scungilli Slushy

If he protects Klef his poker game is off.

Absolutely no need to. Krak will not select him, no upside for the GM. Even if he can play tp a reasonable level, for a year, declining asset for a building team carrying a lot of risk.

kelvjn

A LTIR contract has its worth especially in a flat cap era.

GMB3

Via The Trade Guy
“You don’t really narrow the gap at the trade deadline. Its for teams to fill a hole from injury or maybe that one extra piece to go for it.
The Oilers are not that team. They’re far closer to a first round exit then a championship team. The draft is where we get the capital. Smart trades and value free agency play a part, but there is a lot of work to do.
I couldn’t imagine how bad our summer would be to trade our first and still get bounced in the first round.”

What does this mean? We get the capital at the draft? You absolutely can make a move to narrow the gap between Edmonton and the top teams in the league at the deadline. Teams acquire draft capital at the trade deadline every season… That draft capital can be used to narrow the gap.

The Oilers have 4 players having career years and are a middle of the pack hockey team. I’m okay with us not buying at the deadline, I doubt our mid-late first this year makes an impact before Draisaitl is 29 years old, but I understand that there might be a better move that shakes loose at the draft itself. Smart asset management would have had the Oilers cashing in on Tyson Barrie at the deadline though. “There is a lot of work to do”, I couldn’t agree more.

Ken Holland is well into year two here and we still have a ton of holes. Kahun didn’t fill the hole on the second line, Kyle Turris didn’t fill the hole at 3C. I know that it’s very popular her to postulate that he needs time to clean up Chiarelli’s mess, but it was very popular to postulate the same about Chiarelli and MacTavish.

Dac189

Idk, I feel MacTavish left Chiarelli with a lot of cap space and a lot of picks. Plus Draisaitl, McDavid, Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Nurse.

After the firing of Chiarelli, I was really down on the state of the team and how destroyed it was. I didn’t expect the Oilers to make the playoffs the first year and I didn’t expect them to be contenders this year. Maybe I’m wrong both times.

GMB3

i agree with the first sentence. Chiarelli was a catastrophically bad hire. Same guy hired Ken

Dac189

Lol, yeah. And then Nicholson had a quote along the lines of:

Yeah, I didn’t really put in any effort when looking for the first GM and that’s why we got Chia. My bad. Gonna do a lot better this time, promise.

GMB3

And then he hired his hockey Canada buddy. Seen that episode before

Reja

Mactavish was on the right track until he hired some throw you under the bus weirdo with the stupidest slogan that thought he was so smart he was going revolutionize the defensive game plan scheme going back a 100 years. How does this jerk-off still have a job.

Dac189

Yep, that was brutal but it got us McDavid lol. My biggest frustration with Mactavish was throwing Dubnyk under the bus

GMB3

how about his defensive roster construction? Putrid. His handling of Jeff Petry? Embarrassing.

Oil2Oilers

I am not very concerned about this year’s deadline trades, one way or another.

I am very concerned about how old and past it Holland seemed at the press conference. We all have bad days but, yeesh.

It would be fine if they could kick him into a mentorship role with young dynamic minds coming up the ranks, but the Oilers front office looks as determined as ever to remain a 70s furniture shop.

Betting on Holland to get better seems as wise as betting on a 40 year old power forward regaining his skating legs.

GordieHoweHatTrick

Didn’t see it, so I can’t really comment other than after I complete crazy deadlines for work that I have been working hard at for weeks, I just want to crawl up in a ball and cry myself to sleep.

GordieHoweHatTrick

Or blaze a phat one.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Why not both?

Rondo

Chiarelli the gift that keeps giving. He left a mess.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Agreed. When was the last time the Oilers organization did anything innovative or creative to improve the team?

Holland continues to be an uninspiring GM. He has been an improvement on chiapet because he avoids big mistakes (Hall, Reinhart, Eberle) and that is about it.

GMB3

Yeah, he’s definitely not creative, and his pro scouting is bad.

Oil2Oilers

Agreed, he has enough experience to avoid the big mistakes, but is very much yesterdays man. He would be fine in a mentor role like Lou was in Toronto but Edmonton does not have a young Dubos waiting in the wings.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Holland is probably just looking after things until Harrison Katz is ready. 😉

pts2pndr

In fairness Holland has retooled much of the organization. COVID and the flat cap have made everything more difficult as well. The warts are more obvious to those closest to the situation but that is part of why some other organizations look so good ( the grass is always greener…). Many of these Managers/organizations did not start from the same position as Holland did. Being bad at public appearances does not make him a bad manager, just likeDallas Eakins was great at B.S but not really a good coach. Holland appears to have some very good people skills as evidenced by getting JP back in the fold. His patience and experience also have great value!

Cassandra

Yzerman made a great deal.

Vrana is arguably as good as Mantha, he scores more either on a per game or per minute basis, is younger, and cheaper.

And he gets a first and second round pick for the privilege.

Team is still pretty bad though, and the prospect ranks doesn’t look great.

The lesson is that it is hard to rebuild from nothing in the NHL, even if you make good moves.

jtblack

The lesson is a Good GM will build a good team. Holland left Yzerman with nothing. Yzerman has been patient, knowing he cant rush from Cap hell, crap team to Great team overnight.

This is prob yzermans first big swing. He has loads of picks in 2021. I think Det slowly starts to get better in nxt 2 yrs and then Yzerman will add a Legit G and some veteran depth.

Could still take 3 -5 yrs, but my $$ is on Yzerman building a Long term contending team

David

Our Wingers are a problem. Spitballing optimal playoff lines, probably will be hated:

Nuge-Drai-Yamo
Archie-McDavid-Kassian
Benson-Haas-Puljujarvi
Ennis-Kharia-Shore

Would need Kassian to be pre big contract Kassian. Hopefully Drai’s line would be dominant and McDavid might get cleaner air? If not, that’s making it even easier for the Drai line to devour worlds. Puljujarvi wouldn’t be so deferential and would actually lug the puck which he is good at. Benson’s time to step up.

Bill

The way folks are pissing and moaning about Holland doing next to nothing, makes a fella wonder why all these up and coming General Managers are unemployed and posting their expert opinions on the inter webs. Even the resident, west coast troll figures he could do a better job managing Bouchard for crying out loud. That’s where the Oil have gone wrong all these years! Why waste coin on Holland?!?

krakman

The exact same defense was used for Chiarelli and Tambellini

ASkoreyko

This argument is always the weakest and IMO laziest defense of any person in a position of power. GM/Hockey Ops roles are not posted on LinkedIn and the applicant pool isn’t an open competition but instead made up of the same insular pool of re-treads that float from team to team.

I wonder if you said the same thing about Chia while he was here? I mean after all, he has been employed by multiple NHL organizations which would surely indicate he is bonafide right?

Even Dubas had connections to get him started and he was a risky hire for Toronto all things considered.

Plenty of NHL execs exist in their roles for reasons far beyond their proven ability to understand the game of hockey at a level required to be truly successful. This fact alone should make criticism of these individuals valid. The appealing to authority defense of people in an insulated profession is suspect and results in people like Chia continuing to find work.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Hi Ken!

Bag of Pucks

Bottom line for Holland: he HAS to resign RNH now.

Given what Columbus got for Foligno, Kenny’s asset management rightly goes under the microscope if Nuge walks after a short playoff run.

As the Jackets Captain, Foligno was every bit as important to that franchise as Nuge is to the Oilers. Unless the FA market completely dries up, it’s hard to see how Holland’s leverage is improving the longer this drags on.

Redbird62

With the Oilers firmly in a playoff spot, there was zero chance that Nuge was going to get traded. There would have been no way for Edmonton to improve their current roster with such a trade, and no way Holland would make his team worse going into the playoffs. What a horrible message that would send to the remaining players, coaching staff, the team owner and the fan base. Columbus is not making the playoffs and Foligno is 34 years old. Hardly comparable.

Bag of Pucks

Plenty of contending teams trade pending UFAs at the deadline, Paul Stastny being a recent example.

This is asset management 101. The Oilers have had months to get this player under a new contract. The player has broken off negotiations. If anyone’s sending a message, it’s Nuge.

Or Kenny simply doesn’t want to overpay, in which case, all the more reason to maximize the asset return now and reallocate the monies elsewhere in the offseason.

Do you think letting UFAs walk for nothing “improves the roster?” Holland is expected to play chess not checkers. Longterm asset management is the job.

Redbird62

St. Louis was a bubble team at the trade deadline in 2018 virtually tied with Colorado, but then ended missing the playoffs. So far, the return they got for Stasny has done nothing for them and had no impact on their cup victory in 2019. Several teams this year will see UFA’s walk for nothing if they don’t win the cup, the only difference being they had to give something up to be in that position.

And if you read my post properly, removing Hopkins from the team right now would make the roster worse for the rest of this season. Don’t know if he’ll walk for next season, which if he does and is not replaced, would make the roster worse next year. But in the off season, he has the chance to resign him still, or use the same money to sign a replacement. At the trade deadline, he had no chance to replace him on the current roster. So yes that would be bad roster management in terms of his team’s position entering this year’s playoffs to trade him for futures.

OriginalPouzar

Lou L. let John Tavares walk for nothing…….

Primetime

Lou got there well after the trade deadline that year. It was essentially Snow that let him get to UFA without signing or trading him

jzed

We weren’t going to get that winger for McDavid without gutting what little depth we have on the roster and the farm. Cutting of our nose to spite our face. The real controversy is player combinations and usage. Draisatl and McDavid have to drive their own lines. Drai has and quite spectacularly on the DRY line. Nothing Tippett has put together has worked as well. McDavid appears unable to duplicate with what’s left. So we water both lines down and are frustrated at middling results. McDavid needs tenacious forecheckers who can make plays with the puck. Poolparty and…..?

Sit the milk carton kid and spell it out. We can make a run with you or you can play your way out of the NHL .

Litke 94

Isn’t what we are seeing from Ken Holland what we have wanted to see from the Oilers for years?

In every media availability since he has joined the organization, Holland has spoken to consistency and repeatability. Building a sustainable franchise.

Holland probably had some options today, and maybe his lack of execution on some of those is disappointing. But he didn’t trade away valuable pieces of the future – cheap prospects on cheap deals that Championship teams need – for a run at the Cup where you know for a fact there are at least 6-7 teams with more complete rosters.

As it stands today, MoneyPuck has the Oilers with a 1.5% chance to win the Cup. How much would Taylor Hall have increased those chances?

Save the bullets in the chamber. Get some valuable playoff experience this year, and hopefully even win a round.

Then walk your ass into the offseason with a better cap situation than before. Get a legitimate goaltender. Get Klef back. Find that LW solution. See which of the kids on the farm are ready to contribute. And take your swing next year, in a Pacific Division that could legitimately be weaker than the Canadian Division this year.

pts2pndr

Very well stated!

krakman

Either do nothing or go all in whats the point of Kulikov??

Dac189

Stability in a position that Tippet is the least comfortable with. Possibility of resigning in the offseason. Player very well liked by previous fanbases

dessert1111

Agreed that this is probably the right approach, but it doesn’t completely jive with the lack of calling up Benson, Marody or McLeod. Need to see what you have in them and there are spots available they could slide into.

Litke 94

Kulikov gets you depth for hopefully a playoff series win against Winnipeg, and a few extra games of playoff experience. He also may be a guy who you re-sign on the cheap next year if Larsson walks and you need a defensive defensemen (take a look at his vs. Larsson’s numbers on Puck IQ and HockeyRef if you get a chance… interesting to say the least).

The lack of LW move tells me that Holland probably calls a player or two up here from Bakersfield at some point. Probably Benson.

Last edited 6 months ago by Litke 94
Litke 94

If Holland doesn’t call up a kid from the farm this month, I’ll agree that is weird. I know he is concerned about ice time, doesn’t want them playing 9 minutes a night, but hard to imagine they wouldn’t be playing more considering current lack of options.

pts2pndr

There is a problem due to quarantining. Given the time lag it costs your call ups a lengthy time without practice or games. I can see your point re getting experience but also see the problems relating to quarantining.

McSorley33

Winnipeg may have *10* players reach double digits in goals in this very shortened year.

Plus, a Vezina goalie.

Then we would get to play Toronto – who just added some depth.

Then, presumably Colorado/ Vegas / Tampa Bay Washington await.

Ennis, Turris, Chaser, Haas, Neal, Kassian ( wholly molly he is on a milk carton and his parents are worried)…..

But, we got Kulikov. So, there’s that…

Last edited 6 months ago by McSorley33
David

But after beating Winnipeg we would play Montreal…

JimmyV1965

Unfortunately, I don’t think adding one winger bridges the gap enough. I’m not thrilled with the quiet deadline, but the real opportunity comes this summer.

Holland can sign RNH, Larsson, Barrie or Klef or some other replacement, and still have enough cap space to add two top six wingers. The rubber hits the road at the end of this season.

GMB3

Does he really have the cap space to add two top six wingers? Nurse’s deal expires next year, KY will need a new deal, JP needs a new deal next year, same with Bear. What does a bonafide top 6 winger cost in FA?

pts2pndr

Holland will have a much better idea of which D he can move to acquire a winger. There will be less uncertainties as we move forward. We may also have a partial answer with Halloway starting next fall.

jp

Nurse’s deal expires next year, KY will need a new deal, JP needs a new deal next year, same with Bear. What does a bonafide top 6 winger cost in FA?

With Yamamoto and Puljujarvi scoring 0.45 and 0.37 PPG their new deals aren’t likely to be overly rich.

OriginalPouzar

Here is hoping that Jesse’s counting stats pop a bit in a top 6 role in 2021/22 but I would anticipate Kailer to be bridged this offseason – likely a similar contract to the one Bear signed.

jp

Agreed on both counts. But they shouldn’t break the bank (like it looked like might happen when Yamamoto was scoring a PPG last season, all at evens).

Ryan

Kulikov, eh?

This feels a little like the Brodziak reacquisition in that things come around full circle… just a little too late.

I remember wanting Kulikov in the 2009 draft and then Paajarvi started sliding.

At first I was excited that Paajarvi was sliding, then there was some sense of disquite among my friends and myself wondering what other teams know about Magnus…

checks notes. Kulikov has 2 points in 38 games. plays 19:32 per game. Puck IQ says his coach played him top pairing against elites and the results weren’t terrible.

Not quite sure what this will do for us.

jp

Kulikov has 2 points in 38 games. plays 19:32 per game. Puck IQ says his coach played him top pairing against elites and the results weren’t terrible. 

Not quite sure what this will do for us.

Holland just got the Oilers new 2LD for a 3rd/4th rounder, no?

Kulikov is nothing remotely sexy, and he doesn’t score at all himself. But he doesn’t seem to suppress offense (at least based on shot and other underlying metrics) while being better than his teammates at suppressing shots/chances against (based on NJ this year and Winnipeg last year).

Jethro Tull

Didn’t think it was possible to waste a conditional late pick. I was wrong.

Munny

Give it a chance JT.

Reja

We still have 14 games left but I would like to see Holland and Tippett rest Connor and Leon etc with minutes played and get the whole team involved. Ideally I would rather finish 3rd and open up on the road with a fresh Connor, Leon, Nurse,RNH, Barrie and Mr. Smith.

flea

It goes against the hockey mindset to play every game/play through everything. Hockey hasn’t gotten to the basketball load management side yet.

I’m ok with it. I’m not a big BBall fan but I play fantasy with some buddies. The amount of GTD and rested players is INSANE! If I was a fan of the NBA, it would really piss me off.

Doesn’t matter so much this year without crowds – so maybe you’re right, but I think the NHL looks down on this sort of management of players.

Ben

Fwiw, I think prices will remain reasonable for both trades and signings into the offseason, but disappointed Holland couldn’t add to the top 6.

To be ruthless, there’s no big $ incentive for owners to cash in picks to squeeze out an extra round of playoffs this year. And whether you think the window is open or not, I don’t think the Oilers have a hope of getting past any of Toronto/Tampa/Vegas/Colorado/Carolina at this point.

Bright sides:

1) we’ll get a chance to draft a really good player in the first round.

2) if we’re back in the Pacific next year, Vegas might be the only other non-terrible team in the entire division

3) there’ll be loads of interesting, affordable UFAs to look at this summer

Last edited 6 months ago by Ben
Munny

Remain reasonable?

The Trade deadline is always the most expensive time to make a trade for a buyer.

Only idiots–and those with closing windows–make big expensive deals during silly season.

pts2pndr

A number of the teams that loaded up will be changing decks on their Titanic. Teams that thought they were much better than they were like Vancouver and Calgary may change GM’s. The Oilers with some young players matriculating and wasted cap coming off the books due past buy outs will be in a much better situation to make improvements to the roster that are both substantive and sustainable.

Harpers Hair

Capitals acquire Anthony Mantha from Detroit for Panik and Vrana.

Harpers Hair

Detroit also gets a 2021 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick.

Just another elite team going for it.

leadfarmer

Have to. Not many playoff runs left in that team

Reja

The Capitals are flying under the radar they’re my pick to come out of the east.

pts2pndr

Wrong. Another teams whose core is at that best before date has went all in, in the hope of winning another championship. You know this but your trolling ways always get the best of you!

Harpers Hair

Detroit now with 12 2021 picks including two 1sts and three 2nds.

greenshifter

Mantha isn’t worth anywhere near that. Wash over reacting to what other teams in division did.

Harpers Hair

Daniel Nugent-Bowman (@DNBsports) Tweeted:
“Evan Bouchard is going to be a big part of this team. Unfortunately, it’s not right now. — Ken Holland, adds there are no plans, at least right now, to send him to AHL Bakersfield.

https://twitter.com/DNBsports/status/1381693976885923842?s=20

Reja

Somebody has to keep the bench warm. What a piss poor way to develop a D of his pedigree.

Harpers Hair

You have to wonder what the player and his agent think about this.

Not only is he getting paid AHL dollars while on the taxi squad but his second contract keeps getting kicked down the road

In the meantime, many other D picked in his draft are thriving.

Redbird62

His second contract was kicked down the road for the last time at the conclusion of the 19/20 season. Even if this year mattered, which is doesn’t, 12 games would have been enough to count. So none of Roster/Taxi-squad or the minors impacts that this season. His ELC will be done at the end of 23.

Harpers Hair

Of course he would actually have to play a large number of games (and successfully) to earn a significant second contact.

That ain’t happening.

OriginalPouzar

Bouchard isn’t going to play a large number of games in the next 2 plus seasons?

That can’t be a serious opinion.

pts2pndr

It’s about what’s best for the team and the player in that order just as it should with competent management.

OriginalPouzar

False again.

He is ELC is in force this year, right now.

His next contract will be up at the same time no matter how many NHL games he plays this season or how long he’s on the NHL roster.

Side

You have to wonder when you will be right about something. You are going off script and it’s showing.

jp

You are going off script and it’s showing.

Seems completely on script to me..

OriginalPouzar

Holland confirms that part of keeping assets now is in order to be more active at future deadlines. Can’t be “all in all the time”.

OriginalPouzar

Holland also confirms that he wasn’t trying to get creative (i.e adding in 3rd teams to double retain) – it was a very quick “no”.

Munny

Not surprising. Requires yet another discrete asset. We’re short on currency, ie draft picks.

OriginalPouzar

Holland said he won’t get in to it (can’t talk about other team’s players) but he wasn’t seriously involved in discussions for Taylor Hall.

leadfarmer

Not surprised.
I really think Hall had his destination picked and Buffalo tried to bluff to up the price

JimmyV1965

I find it more likely that NHL teams were not interested in Hall, than Hall limiting the number of teams he would agree to be traded to. This is still a garage league. I hope Hall plays great in Boston and the Bruins quickly crash and burn, opening up the possibility of getting him on a value deal in the summer.

OriginalPouzar

For what its worth, Stauff think the Oilers will sign both Larsson and Nuge and add a legit top 6 LW in the off-season.

Anyways, Holland speaking at 1:30.

JimmyV1965

We need two and can afford to get two.

DieHard

Change legit top 6 LW with legit (better than Nuge) top 6 Center.

OriginalPouzar

I would prefer, Leon as the legit top 6 center and acquiring the top 6 LW.

Harpers Hair

Canucks acquire defenseman Madison Bowey from Chicago for a 4th round pick.

McNuge93

Wow, they are stocking up for a playoff run.

leadfarmer

Holy carp. That is a steep price for a AHL defenseman

Harpers Hair

How many D picked in the 4th round are currently in the AHL?

leadfarmer

At least one Madison Bowey

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Hard to believe they’d pay such a high cost to add a middling prospect who’s meandering along his path, while simultaneously blocking the heir apparent himself, Brogan “Ageless Wonder” Rafferty.

LMHF#1

Another year wasted.

Barring McDavid and Leon completely going off in the playoffs, they will lose again. Stuck in neutral since 17 when
they didn’t go for it either and lost out on an opportunity for Cup #1 for 97 and 29. Or at minimum a conference title. Shame. Lots of pedalling backward as well.

Today is the result of not clearing out the crap prior to the season. That means they’ve failed. Again. The deadline is not a vacuum. It’s not an excuse either. The media will carry water for this every year, no matter what, and people will believe it. There’s always an excuse, and always people willing to support it.

There is no mythical “the season”. And planning that way gets you splatted all over the road by a team on a roll – or a bad injury.

Didn’t expect anything else – but hoped to be surprised.

Their methods are wrong, low percentage and going to result in negative consequences for 97 and 29. Nothing’s changed fundamentally.

Get ready for the excuses when “that year” comes, and something goes wrong and it turns to “ah well geez…nothing you can do I guess…”

LMHF#1

And Holland confirms the approach was, TLDR version – we didn’t try.

Damn pathetic.

leadfarmer

Way too many holes to fix for one trade deadline and there was no cap space. I dont think Hall wanted to come back here and I dont see any combination of players traded that make us a contender.
I wouldnt have bought anyone out before the season started not being sure if it was actually going to happen. Glad we burned another year of Neals contract before we buy him out.
I think next year is the first year of Compete Phase
.

Harpers Hair

Vancouver trades Jordie Benn to the Jets.

Harpers Hair

For a 6th.

leadfarmer

Jordie Benn kills penalties.
That is all

dessert1111

I don’t mind Kulikov (though haven’t watched him in awhile) and the value seems fair enough but, like others are saying, I don’t think he moves the needle enough to be worth trading for unless you think you have fewer holes than we do up front.

Ben

So…I, uh, have three Oiler jerseys for sale: Glendening home orange, Glendening reverse retro and Glendening third navy. Thought I’d give you folks first crack before I put em on the kijiji.

Willing to throw in a Smithson McFarlane to make it happen.

elgruntus

that Smithson jersey belongs in a case

jp

Maybe you should hold onto them until the off season?

* ducks *

Harpers Hair

Daniel Nugent-Bowman (@DNBsports) Tweeted:
The Oilers will not be making any other moves, I’m told.

https://twitter.com/DNBsports/status/1381687295699394564?s=20

Durag

LeBrun says the Blues are done, Holland is giving a presser at 1:30. Strong indication that the Oilers are done with just Kulikov.

Maybe there was nothing to be done, but colour me disappointed. The org doesn’t seem to be showing any ambition to get out of the division.

GordieHoweHatTrick

I think their hands are tied rather tightly this year due to their cap problems and a few anchor contracts in particular. I think any significant trades would require giving up a lot of future potential, with limited up-grade potential for this year’s playoffs.

Harpers Hair

Michael Traikos (@Michael_Traikos) Tweeted:
The checklist is complete. The Leafs added top-six grit (Nick Foligno), forward depth (Riley Nash), defensive depth (Ben Hutton) and goalie depth (David Rittich) before the deadline. And they did it without having to give away a prospect or a roster player. Give Dubas credit.

https://twitter.com/Michael_Traikos/status/1381686136406413313?s=20

John Chambers

They didn’t meaningfully improve their team, IMO and paid nearly a full draft in picks for the proviledge.

Harpers Hair

I expect Foligno will surprise you.

The rest of the moves are nothing more than depth for the playoffs.

Considering they are prohibitive favorites to make the conference final, these are just small moves to enhance their cup chances.

With their impact core players locked up for years, their need for draft picks is much reduced.

Reja

Foligno wants to win a cup he’ll be going balls to the walls along with Big Joe Simmonds Spezza. Anyhow no matter how good you look it all comes down to goaltending once the pressure packed playoffs begin.

Bag of Pucks

So we’re assuming the 1st round pick traded out wouldn’t have landed a legit prospect?

All orgs should frame trading their picks this way. Hey, we only traded picks not players! We could easily have sucked at the draft. With this rental, we avoid that danger!

Last edited 6 months ago by Bag of Pucks
Harpers Hair

Apparently you missed the times Tampa Bay traded their 1st round picks at add depth at the deadline.

This draft in particular is an absolute crapshoot after the top 10-15.

Youre just as likely to find a player in the second round as you are if you’re picking in the 28-32 spot.

Toronto has 2 blue chip D prospects, their top 6 is already loaded and locked in so Dubas just needs to add at the margins…which is exactly what he has done.

Litke 94

Give Dubas credit? They traded away a first, two thirds, a fourth and a fifth for an injured guy, two guys with piss-poor possession numbers, and a goalie who went from future of Calgary’s net to below replacement level.

This is an extreme long term price to pay. As Leadfarmer said below, if they don’t win the Cup, this is going to look bowling shoe ugly.

leadfarmer

I guess i will give Dubas credit for trading significant amount of futures without improving his team much

leadfarmer

Worth noting that Foligno will not be re-signing with the Leafs. He is a pure 2 month rental

Harpers Hair

Ben Hutton to Toronto.

Erik Gudbranson to Nashville.

Harpers Hair

Romulus’ Apotheosis (@RomulusNotNuma) Tweeted:
Bennett = Second and Prospect
Janmark = Second and Third
Foligno = First and Fourth
Hall = Second
The NHL hates Taylor Hall. Just absolutely hates the guy.

https://twitter.com/RomulusNotNuma/status/1381681780076470275?s=20

godot10

Hall had an NMC which restricts where he can be traded. The other guys don’t.

Harpers Hair

Yep… Hall picked his destination. He wanted to sign there last offseason.

Redbird62

New Jersey got a pretty good haul out of Arizona for Hall last year.

ashley

It’s doubtful that Hall wanted to come here. He has a NMC. It’s not really a missed opportunity if there was no opportunity.

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

Just want to thank Harper for the trade updates. I’m not so great at the search thing as evidenced by Side helping me last night with the Control + F.

McSorley33

Same.

I like it when people post the tweets from other hockey people as well.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

If they wanted (which they do not) the Oilers could trade Adam Larsson and get a bigger return than the Sabres got for Hall.

What a wild time to be alive.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

I like the Kulikov trade in a vacuum. Decent price for a decent player.

But if Holland does not add a forward then the trade makes less sense. The Oilers are not getting out of the division with their current group of forwards. Not enough talent, depth, or speed to beat the Laughs or the Jets in a seven game series.

Durag

I think we can beat the Jets (and they can beat us) but we’d be lucky to take the Leafs to 6 games without an addition up front.

pts2pndr

A lot depends on how bad they get beat up by Montreal. The tradition of that rivalry tells me it might be a lot harder than it may look. It would be funny if Montreal was to win that series

Durag

Do you really think the Habs and Leafs are going to beat each other up worse than the Oilers and Jets are?