Little PTO

by Lowetide

You’ll often hear Oilers fans complain about free agents not coming to Edmonton, but the club has signed some big names since Connor McDavid arrived. From Andrej Sekera to Milan Lucic to Tyson Barrie and Zach Hyman, the only limitation appears to be cap room.

Edmonton has also done well with PTO’s since 2015, but the human brain can only remember so many things. You might have the lyrics to Love Hurts, a complicated joke you’re saving for a friend, your phone number when you were 10 and a detailed visual of your wife/husband/bf/gf that takes a lot of memory.

So names like Kris Versteeg and Eric Gryba (2016), Chris Kelly (2017), Scottie Upshall and Jason Garrison (2018), Devin Shore and Ryan Stanton (2020), and that’s a partial list, prove Edmonton does in fact attract free agents great and small. What about this year?

THE ATHLETIC!

PTO CANDIDATES

  1. RW Kyle Palmieri. I don’t see him coming to Edmonton, but it’s worth a call.
  2. LHD Zdeno Chara. I don’t care. I know he’s rumoured to be heading to Florida, but he’s No. 1 on my list until he signs.
  3. RHD Sami Vatanen. He appears to have lost his offense but the possession numbers and puck moving remain solid.
  4. RC Tyler Bozak. I’d bring him in despite the addition of Ryan. That’s a position where the Oilers have great utility, but one more RH pivot would be a wonderful luxury.
  5. RHD Michael Stone. He played 21 games (2-2-4) with possession stats around 50 percent. He is a veteran but past 30 and has some coverage gaps.
  6. RHD Jason Demers. He was 41, 0-4-4 with the Coyotes, outscored 21-34 and at 33 he may be done. You never know.
  7. LHD Erik Gustafsson. Surprised he’s still out there, and he does bring chaos, but this is a talented puck mover.
  8. RW Alex Chiasson. I would bring him back, he was effective in his Edmonton years.
  9. LW Michael Dal Colle. He’s a Glen Sather special. Former top pick looking for a second chance.

I expect we’ll see one, a RH defender. There’s no problem with the 50-man absolutely miles of room:

Ken Holland has a fairly set roster, I have 17 “Certain” Oilers and in all honesty with a signed Kailer Yamamoto added to Ryan McLeod and Slater Koekkoek we’re at 20.

Corey Pronman has his prospect rankings up today, the Edmonton Oilers are here. I will endeavor to get Mr. Pronman on the Lowdown at some point this week.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, we kickstart a fun week that ends with a long weekend! TSN1260 is the channel, and we’ll be joined by John Hodge from 3DownNation at 10:20 to review the CFL games this weekend and look forward to Labor Day. Jason Gregor from the Jason Gregor Show on TSN1260 will drop in at 11 and talk CFL, NFL, Cantlay-DeChambeau. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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OriginalPouzar

Thank you.

I think the rest of the league should get nervous when McDavid talks about working on ways to score more goals. If Matthews isn’t 100% healthy to start the season, McDavid may add the Richard to his case.

flea

Or if Matthews gets hurt during the season, which has happened every year since his rookie year. Last year he was not close to 100% for the second half.

Great player but injuries seem frequent.

defmn

Play hockey, see the world. 😉

The Belfast Giants have landed quite a free agent, signing Griffin Reinhart for the upcoming season.

Reinhart, 27, was the fourth overall pick in 2012, selected by the New York Islanders just ahead of Morgan Rielly.

The last two years have seen him lace up his skates in China with Kunlun Red Star of the KHL and then the Iserlohn Roosters of the DEL.

Melvis

I was at the range today…fully concentrated on this folly…missing the obvious. The guy to the left of me said. ” look behind you. What do you see?”

I saw nine guys in a row teeing off..so 11 in all. Weird. Apparently, there are more lefty golfers per capita in Canada then anywhere else in the world. I was thinking of taking a survey. How many of you guys play hockey?

Melvis

I meant nine “lefty” golfers in a row.

pts2pndr

In Canada this is true but golf clubs for left handlers are cheaper! Supply vs demand?

OriginalPouzar

Gregor brought up a very good point in his piece at ON:

https://oilersnation.com/2021/08/30/edmonton-oilers-roster-with-salary-cap-considerations/

This was discussed a bit last year as well (I believe Hart from PuckPedia is the guy that advised about it last year).

If a team starts the season on LTIR, any player that is not on the opening day roster, but is called up during the season, will have any potential performance bonuses count in the cap when they are called up. If they are on the opening day roster, sent down and then recalled, when recalled, those performance bonuses will not count against the current cap.

There could be some very interesting opening day transactions with the Oilers with guys like Broberg and Holloway on the opening day roster and then re-assigned (pretty much any ELC player with performance bonuses that they think they may recall during the season).

Scungilli Slushy

Most defensemen are right handed
Most defensemen are left shot
There’s a conundrum 😀

Ice Sage

Top hand on the stick tends to be the dominant (power) one

Scungilli Slushy

In Canada

One piece I read referred to the US producing more RS D. The idea was they start later so using the strongest hand is less of a comfort decision than a 2 or 3 year old would choose, meaning if you are right handed you would shoot right, dominant and strongest hand in the control position, like how most orientate in baseball or golf

I was teasing LT with my comment, he refers to RS D as right handed

I use LD RD, LS RS as is the norm. Not that it amounts to much

Ice Sage

Great analysis and it’s not easy to take the piss from LT 😉

pts2pndr

LT is resilient? I have not had the pleasure to meet the man but I respect who he is!

pts2pndr

I am a right shot, right handed individual. My experience is that Americans are generally right handed. This would explain why left handed sports equipment is less expensive. I have been away from the U.S.A for over thirty years so things may have changed.

pts2pndr

True. Most North Americans are right handed. The anomaly is that most D men are left shot D. Many theories to explain but will make your brain hurt to research same!

meanashell11

I am right handed but play hockey, golf, and hit baseball left handed. I have never experienced cheaper golf clubs because they are left handed…..

Kinger_Oil.redux

– I was going to post about Kailer in uncertainbut I reread the crtieria. Can’t imagine a scenario where he doesn’t sign, but I guess technically he hasn’t yet.

– Pretty underwhelming, when you compare this roster to the consensus cup contenders, except Drai and CmD on different lines with linemates that score is the thing most other rosters don’t have.

– Kind of like Malkin Crosby and a bunch of guys: and they eventually figured it out a few times. Maybe Hyman = Kessel for secondary scoring, Guentzel emerged and their pretty shitty D without Letang gets it done, and Murray came out of nowhwere and helped a lot. I guess this is the template we hope for…

Malkin and Crosby really carried this roster:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PIT/2017.html

Kinger_Oil.redux

– Its kind of interesting Kinger, the 2009 team was also Malkin and Crosby, and a bunch of guys (that team beat Hollands Wings), so maybe thats the formula Holland is going for. This team had a young Staal, a bunch of vets like Guerin, Kunitz, Gonchar, Fedontenko, etc.

Wasn’t sexy except the top-2 but it worked:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/PIT/2009.html

Ice Sage

Letang and Fleury were sexy too – Oilers don’t *quite have that yet.
Still, the model is at least a coherent one!

pts2pndr

Are you sure the proper descriptor is sexy? As a male heterosexual I would question your phraseology!

Reja

If your second line winger only scores 8 goals in 52 games with 9 games against the Sens and your Centre is Leon your in trouble. You are not winning nothing you need production out of this position Leon and Connor need help Hockey is a team game with the additions of feisty Hyman, Foegele, Perlini, Holloway a relaxed RNH and a born again Kassian we finally have balance up front. With the mobile D and if conservative Tippett gives them the green light we will be the highest scoring team in the league. Book it!

pts2pndr

You have beat that dead horse for weeks and no matter how long you continue what you believe is just that a belief! You have every right to believe but you are getting to the point of brow beating and that is to be kind unfair! Rescue your saddle because if and or when
you are proven wrong crow is not a great dish! I do respect you for standing by your beliefs and you give me cause to re-evaluate my thinking and you are a genuine quality poster on site! I thank you for that and continue to do you!😉

OriginalPouzar

I am very enthused to watch the forwards this coming – lots of speed, “give a shit”, battle, versatility, etc. – should be really fun.

I’m not sure I agree with that (a) Kass is “born again” while (b) Yamamoto is will remain the player that struggled to produce (and it seems the 30 games in the 2nd half of 2021 are defining his career) but to each their own.

It will be interesting to see if Perlini and/or Holloway break camp with the team and/or if they play any NHL games this year.

Its probably more likely, to me, that Perlini breaks camp with the team but maybe more likely that Holloway plays NHL games. Doesn’t make sense but I posit:

Holloway – 15% chance to make the team out of camp
Perlini- 50% chance to make the team out of camp

Holloway – 75% chance to play 15 plus games
Perlini – 40% chance to play 15 plus games

pts2pndr

Very reasonable call!

jp

except Drai and CmD on different lines with linemates that score is the thing most other rosters don’t have.

Most?

They’ve been the #1 and #2 scorers in the league two years in a row.

Agree Pittsburgh is the template though. It’s near impossible to have a fully balanced team when you’re paying two superstar centers.

Kinger_Oil.redux

except that Drai is mostly CMDs winger when he reack up those sick points. They can’t win with them on the same line, because they haven’t draft and developed secondary players, and the resulting lack of fully balanced team. Every coach so far has always ended up putting them together.

Malkin and Crosby centering different lines with guys who get chem: that’s the only way, and our difference maker we have.

If Drai can’t centre a scoring line sans McD we won’t win a Cup.

At least now I see what Holland is tryng to do (I hope).

jp

Yes, agreed the team needs them to succeed on different lines. And it’s clear Holland is putting most of his resources into ensuring quality wingers for both, as well as improving the 3rd line.

FWIW, Tippett has played them apart more than his predecessors. In the last 2 years ‘only’ 45% of McDavid’s TOI has been with Draisaitl, while Draisaitl has played 43% of his with McDavid.

Kinger_Oil.redux

OF the 57% of time Drai isn’t with McD, based on what you say, It would be nice to know what his scoring rate is 5×5 when McD is playing. Effectively what does he do as a 2nd pairing C, with the 2nd best batch of wingers.

Extrapolate this, hope and wish this batch of wingers is better, and have at ‘er with the two of them on different lines

Last edited 1 month ago by Kinger_Oil.redux
OriginalPouzar

What could be noted in this conversation is that Drai, without McDavid, has SPLENDID GA/60 numbers, like top of the league elite.

This is a main reason why Drai w/o McDavid has such a high GF%, much higher than McDavid w/o Drai.

A part of that might be Yamamoto’s defensive acumen, which is highly under-rated in my opinion.

pts2pndr

The problem is that the team has not found a player other than Draisaitl to compliment Conners immense talent

OriginalPouzar

I’m assuming that’s 5 on 5, right?

Kinger_Oil.redux

yes – the key is when McD is on another line: not when McD isn’t playing and Drai gets the remaing best linemates. So what has been his true 5×5 scoring when the 2nd C, and is that elite and is their a path to forsee a Crosby Malkin calibre tandem?

Last edited 1 month ago by Kinger_Oil.redux
OriginalPouzar

This past season, when Drai was away from McDavid, Drai generally got Yamamoto and Kahun and McDavid generally got Nuge and Puljujarvi.

It would be tough to argue that McDavid didn’t get the best of the rest, no? Even with, Drai’s GF% was much better than McDavid’s.

Kinger_Oil.redux

– what was Drai’s 5×5 scoring rate over the last two years, when McD was playing on another line? I’ve clearly said that Drai gets the 2nd best wingers when not with CmD

OriginalPouzar

I’m not sure what Drai’s personal scoring rate was away from McDavid but I know his line was a MASSIVE outscorer during those minutes (last year the Nuge/Drai/Yamamoto line went like 77% over 27 games and this past season, Drai was over 56% away from McDavid.

I think Drai away from McDavid shows how elite Drai is as far as helping win hockey games go.

OriginalPouzar

Thank you.

The P/60 isn’t great but a 58% goal share, away from McDavid with two wingers not producing at top 6 levels (one not even in the league any more) is spectacular. A better GF% than McDavid who saw much of his time with Nuge and Puljujarvi.

In 2019/20, Drai was 58% goal share without McDavid (McDavid was below 50% without Drai). I don’t know Leon’s scoring rates for the year but I believe they were best in the league for the 27 games he was with Nuge and Kailer.

I have no doubt Leon can produce elite offence away from McDavid and drive beautiful goal share.

jp

The P/60 isn’t great but a 58% goal share, away from McDavid with two wingers not producing at top 6 levels (one not even in the league any more) is spectacular.

I hate to throw more water on Draisaitl, but those GF% results come with a major asterisk. The underlying numbers (SF%, xGF% etc) were all in the 45-46% range. Bad.

Kahun-Draisaitl-Yamamoto rode some major luck this past year, which helped them stay together as long as they did.

Draisaitl’s 19-20 results without McDavid were also great (and more supported by underlying numbers, he was at least over 50% shot and xgoal rates), but those were driven by the Nuge-Draisaitl-Yamamoto fire (which I would explore again).

Looking at his numbers pre-19-20, I’m reminded how much concern there was whether both McDavid and Draisaitl could carry their own lines.

From 16-17 through 18-19, when Draisaitl was on the ice without McDavid he had a 41.3% GF% in 1700+ minutes. Yikes.

The shot and xG numbers were at least over 47%, so not *that* terrible. This is with the likes of Lucic, Chiasson, Rieder, Caggiula, Puljujarvi, Maroon, Nuge, Khaira and Kassian as his linemates (I believe this is in order of most time with Draisaitl, but without McDavid).

So three things:
1) It’s clear Draisaitl needs more help than he’s gotten aside from a) McDavid or b) Nuge-Yamamoto
2) There’s every reason to believe he will have more help than he did either last season or from 16-17 to 18-19
3) With Draisaitl not scoring so much AND losing the goal share battle (badly) over the year it’s awfully difficult to fault Oilers coaches for putting McDavid and Draisaitl and letting Nuge struggle at 2C with similar results to what Draisaitl provided in the same slot.

OriginalPouzar

Is it not somewhat meaningful when a player’s actual GF% results consistently outpace the underlying shot metrics numbers?

Dra did it last year and he did it the year before (McDavid off numbers). I don’t think that is unsustainable and is at least somewhat a function of his eliteness. Drai will always have a higher shooting percentage, for a few reasons.

jp

Is it not somewhat meaningful when a player’s actual GF% results consistently outpace the underlying shot metrics numbers?

Maybe, but before these last 2 years his GF numbers were considerably worse than his shot numbers so it’s not like he’s always done it (McDavid has done it more consistently for instance).

I do think Draisaitl has taken another step in the last couple of seasons and may be able to drive percentages a bit, but no one consistently has 46% of the shots and 58% of the goals. The shot number has to improve.

jp

Wow, I’m surprised his P/60 was that low this season.

To add some more historical Draisaitl numbers (without McDavid):
2019-20
610:24 11-17-28 2.75 (but that’s not really fair either because DRY heater)

16-17 through 18-19 (too lazy to do each year separately):
1701:15 18-32-50 1.76

It really does look like Draisaitl (and his wingers) have some work to do.

Even before seeing this I’d have given Nuge-Draisaitl-Yamamoto a chance this coming season. Even more so now. And there’s certainly enough options now to explore other combos if it were to fail.

jp

Yes. It would be lots more if including PP.

OriginalPouzar

Eeli Tolvanen signs for 3 X $1.45M.

Take note Kailer Yamamoto.

jp

That’s a good sign, though Tolvanen doesn’t have a ‘26 points in 27 games, #3 in the NHL P/60’ stretch on his resume.

We’ll see, I’d be very happy if Holland can get Yamamoto signed for ~$1.5M.

OriginalPouzar

Oh, I’m not saying Yamamoto will sign that deal – 3 years for that low AAV is a bad deal for Kailer. The range is clear though.

Darth Tu

Yup. 2 years $1.5-1.6 mill is my call.

Ryan

RW Kyle Palmieri. I don’t see him coming to Edmonton, but it’s worth a call.

Isn’t his signed contract with the Islanders in Lou’s desk drawer?

Harpers Hair

Yes.

defmn

Of course it is.

OriginalPouzar

Sure, no problem bringing anyone to camp on a PTO but, for me, the only potential PTO that has a real chance to earn a contract would be a right show d-man – Demers and Stone are the ones that comes to mind (and, at this point of their careers, I think they are really a 3RD/4D at best and I could get on board with one of them a one year deal under a million given the Oilers don’t have a 4th right shot d-man (Berglund is the 4th).

The “issue” is, if Demers/Stone is on the team then, in addition to Lagesson being waived, one of Koekkoek or Russell needs to be waived and assigned. I’m not sure I see management doing that.

I mean, there is only room for one extra D – so only two of the following Lagesson, Koekkoek, Russell, PTO/RSD (Demers/Stone).

Last edited 1 month ago by OriginalPouzar
ArmchairGM

So, Waddell with a revenge-driven offer sheet. If you were in Montreal’s shoes, what do you do? Match or take the 1st and 3rd?

Also, do you plan an offer sheet for Necas next summer?

defmn

From what I read it was revenge-driven by the owner.

TheGreatBigMac

I think Montreal can make it work with Weber’s LTIR, it’s just one year. The question for me is do you want to bring back a player who signed that contract. The contract is clearly a big overpay and revenge move. It seems disloyal and maybe shows a lacks self confidence from the player to sign something like that for a one year payday.

Last edited 1 month ago by TheGreatBigMac
defmn

What I am reading is that loyalty left the building when Kotkaniemi was scratched in the last two games against TB.

pts2pndr

The smart move is to resign him for one year. This first and foremost let’s all the other teams GM’s know that you can’t be bullied. Approaching the trade deadline you have an option to resign and or move him for an asset moving forward. All the pressure is then on the player to produce and or accept a low ball offer to continue to play in the NHL wether that’s with Montreal or elsewhere! It also sets an example for the other young players and their agents moving forward! This is a lose situation only if Montreal lets him walk!

Gerta Rauss

If Montreal retains him, they can’t trade him for 1 year – so that keeps him in your organization through the trade deadline, the draft, and the UFA period

That rule isn’t a showstopper, but it’s something to consider

Friedman mentioned on their emergency podcast(LoL) that the Habs were anticipating a contract that started with a 2, so the two sides appeared to be miles apart on a contract

Again, not a showstopper, but it’s something

pts2pndr

Then I would sign him and if he withers under the pressure so be it. I’m sure there are ways to work the system to Montreal’s advantage and if not it still allows the team to set their parameters for young players moving forward. Montreal can be an unpleasant place to be if the fans get on the players case!

Cassandra

The gap is bigger than that. Bergeron was offering 2.5 over 2 years (less than 1.5 M cap hit) or something like that. Kotkaniemi just got himself a 5M raise.

If the Canadians match and they don’t think he’s worth 6M next season then they lose him for nothing.

Now they get a first and third round pick for him. There is a lot of risk in matching.

Elgin R

KK is probably hoping Bergevin takes the picks. Better weather, better team and almost $1m more in take home pay due the tax-rate differences.

Material Elvis

Not sure where you came up with $1M more in take home but it wouldn’t be that much. Players are taxed based on where they place each game. Also, North Carolina is not a zero state income tax jurisdiction.

pts2pndr

Really sucks if they play hardball! Not sure that most fans will have a lot of sympathy for a spoiled young millionaire!

Scungilli Slushy

I let him jump.

Let Dundon pay him 6.1 this season and forward, or try to trade him.

As for Necas, I’d want him as an Oiler, but offer sheets are almost always a bad enough contract the home team won’t sign it, and who wants those?

Take the picks and cap and figure it out.

Edit
Actually they do sign them, I should Have said often they shouldn’t. The offer has to be offensive enough to discourage the home team.

Unless the player is really special the overpayment carries a lot of baggage. Other players contracts, lowe of space etc etc

Last edited 1 month ago by Scungilli Slushy
pts2pndr

The caveat is it’s only one year! Short term pain to make a statement both to the player and the GM’s that might want to poach your players! Old saying “you teach others how to treat you”! Door mat or Alpha the choice is mostly yours! Going along to get along rarely works well for the individual that travels that route! Prey or predator!

Trevor457

If Montreal signs him, what does this do for his next contract? Is there a minimum qualifying offer they would have to tender next year based on this contracr? If yes, this is more then one year pain.

OriginalPouzar

He’s due a QO of $6.1M next season (if he doesn’t sign an extension before hand which can be signed come January 1).

The club can file for arbitration would could lead to an award as low as 85% of the QO.

————

P.S. The above will apply whether MTL matches or now – its just which organization he will be dealing with.

Last edited 1 month ago by OriginalPouzar
Elgin R

KK would take home close to USD $1m if he plays for the Hurricanes. Better weather, better team, more money. I love the $20 signing bonus. Great for the dog days of August in the NHL calendar, at least there is something non-Oilers to talk about. Good job Waddell.

ArmchairGM

You’re answering a question I didn’t ask. What would you do as Montreal’s GM?

ArmchairGM

FWIW, in Bergevin’s shoes I’d take the picks and flip them – along with some other assets – to Buffalo for Jack Eichel.

And I wouldn’t go after Necas next summer.

DevilsLettuce

Pronman said what he said for the clicks, no one watches Bouchard and says below average puck skills other then HH and he’s shown himself to be a fraud every step of the way. Can’t take a review like that seriously his shot is too damn good.

Elgin R

Pronman (The Athletic) – Evan Bouchard
Tier: Projected middle of the lineup player
Skating: Blow-average
Puck Skills: Below-average
Hockey Sense: Above-average
Compete: Average
Shot: Above-average

Did Pronman watch any games or is he just summarizing what others have said? I did not watch any of the Swedish games but have watched all of Bouchard’s NHL time and a good portion of his AHL games. To call his puck skills BELOW AVERAGE for an NHL player is suspect and a disservice to the young man. Bouchard is the real deal and will be an excellent 2RD (or higher) for many years in Oiler silks.

Ryan

Skating: Blow-average

Fortunately, Broberg projects to be a “great push [sic] rusher in the NHL.”

Reja

I’m a huge Bouchard fan but the Oilers don’t play him so it’s understandable outside folks think there’s a weakness in his game. Bouchard should of been in the line-up going all the way back to the Chi-Town series
where Larsson was out and our offensive and PP D-man Kelfbom was playing with one chicken wing and Bear who looked under the weather after getting utterly destroyed in the corner by I believe Caggiula.
last year Bouchard plays overseas and after settling in plays good hockey arrives at camp in mid season form then sits in the press box because of a numbers game. Tippett must of gotten tired of mine and others whining and decides to play him on the wrong side where he’s out of position on 2 goals and then it’s back to the press box for another 15-20 games. If Tippett thought the last 7-8 games were that important that he couldn’t get Bouchard in and up to speed in case they needed him in the playoffs why not dress 7 D. The way Tippett double shifts Leon and Connor like rented Mules one or two of the 4th liners barely play anyhow.

Material Elvis

Not just his puck skills, which are above average, but his skating is not below average. That was a narrative going into last season and it was debunked the moment Bouchard stepped on the ice. He’s not a dynamic skater like Makar and Hughes, but Bouchard’s backwards skating is good and his forward top gear is really good — surprised me a couple of times when he joined the rush (how quickly he moved up the ice).

But as HH would say, do we know the Oilers players better than a professional scout who doesn’t watch them regularly? (Spoiler: yes)

Harpers Hair

I would wager Pronman has seen Bouchard play live and on video many more times than you have and also brings objectivity to the process.

Reja

Bouchard should be playing top 4 but there has to be a reason why Tippet won’t play him. Please enlighten me. Do you think it’s because he’s not a current management pick and this has something to do with it?

OriginalPouzar

I also take issue with Bouchard’s skating as being rated below average – his straight line speed is quite good, plus even, his backwards skating is high end. He isn’t great laterally but I don’t consider his skating below average.

OriginalPouzar

The reason why Bouchard didn’t play more last year is clear, obvious and known. You don’t accept it as valid, and that’s fine, but you know the reason.

Reja

So if Bouchard knocks it out of the park which I fully expect ( There will be some growing pains) will everybody slap Holland on the back and call him a genius for his innovative method of letting a Top 10 pick with pedigree and a star in the OHL watch his peers in games from a Hotel room for 3/4 of the year. Then as a reward instead of giving him 1 game against the lame Jets Holland promised him he won’t forget to bring up his name at the end of a interview after he’s done doting on golden boy Broberg.

OriginalPouzar

This doesn’t really have much to do with the fact that the reasons are fairly clear and obvious. You don’t agree with the reasons, clearly, but when you express to not know what they are its somewhat baffling.

RonnieB

It’s because, even in his early thirties, dad still falls about 7 years short of Tippett’s preferred age demographic.

Material Elvis

Would you wager? That’s nice to know. Maybe try paying the bets that you lose before making any more wagers.

meanashell11

Lol! That loser will never live this down and we continue to keep the flame alive!

pts2pndr

You are very presumptive and a complete ass!

Redbird62

There’s a chance you’re overstating Pronman’s qualifications.

Material Elvis

HH is using an appeal to authority to boost CP’s qualifications only because CP does not rate Bouchard highly (and that makes HH feel good). As for the whole “he’s watched a lot of games and a lot of video so he’s the most qualified” argument, perhaps HH has missed Swedishposter’s spot on analysis? How is it possible that SP can provide such detailed, accurate scouting reports when he’s a physician, not a professional scout?

defmn

It is what I said a few weeks ago when this came over Wheeler’s rankings. I take the view of those who watch and follow a particular team over a league wide view every day of the week.

Not to mention that both Wheeler & Pronman are working under even more difficult situations than usual because of covid.

Material Elvis

Absolutely. And to further your point, Pronman’s and Wheeler’s area of scouting expertise is at the amateur level. The sheer volume of players at that level is difficult enough to track and analyze. Over-and-above that they have time to closely watch and provide accurate analysis of 31 NHL teams? Nobody has that much time; instead, they are relying on old scouting reports and word-of-mouth.

Redbird62

My point was Pronman is not a professional scout either or at least I am not aware that he ever was a professional hockey scout. He is a sports analyst for the media. He makes his living writing about it or talking about it. Not the same thing. I would generally not call referencing any media reporter/analyst an appeal to authority unless they had spent several years doing the actual job they are reporting on or analyzing. Not to say their opinions have no merit. Some can be very informative and insightful as well as entertaining like Pronman, but I do not believe he is an expert.

YKOil

Been thinking about the Kotkaniemi offer-sheet. Like it for both sides.

Carolina kicks Les Habs in the shins and pays high on a 3C, but also puts themself in the driving seat to sign said player longer-term, at lower dollars, if it all works out.

Montreal is closer to a reload than a full-clip in my mind so an extra 1st and 3rd is just fine while they deal with the Drouin contract, snag an extra $1.1 million for next year as the Alzner buy-out ages out, and prep for the Suzuki and Caulfield contracts.

Hell, starting to think that Carolina did them a favour in regards to bringing this all into focus a year earlier than it normally should have – can you imagine if they had offer-sheeted Suzuki next year? THAT would have been a much bigger deal – not just the contract – than this.

Redbird62

The guy in the driver’s seat could be Kotkaniemi. If he plays decently next season, to prevent free agency, Carolina will need to offer sheet him at $6.1 million, otherwise he becomes an unrestricted free agent. Carolina will have up to the offer sheet deadline after the end of next season to convince him to extend for longer at a lower rate but he doesn’t need to sign it.

defmn

From various reports there is a vebal agreement to extend the contract at a lower rate. No idea of how that was done or how binding but if true I would think it is announced as soon as the league allows one year contracts to be extended.

Redbird62

Anything legally binding would be in contravention of the CBA and neither party could try to enforce it without running afoul of the NHL. The parties can’t sign an extension until January 1. If they announced an extension right at that time for a meaningfully lower AAV, the Habs would probably ask for an investigation. Besides, if he hits it out of the park till Jan 1, he might think he is worth at least $6.1 on his next deal. If he fails miserably, the Canes might be leary about an extension even at a handshake lower AAV. A lower AAV extension could happen, but both parties are taking risk.

defmn

Yup. There is risk. It would all rely on the honour of the people involved.

That said, some people do honour their word and some players sign huge contracts and go in to semi-retirement mode.

OriginalPouzar

SJ honoured their deal to extend LeBlanc – they signed him for one year but, from accounts, had an agreement for a longer term/bigger money deal and, even after LeBlanc underperformed, they signed him to the deal.

pts2pndr

I was taught that your word was of great value! It has stood the test of time! I have done my best to pass that on to my children and to date it has done them well!

defmn

It really is the most important thing you own.

Darth Tu

Man, until the offer sheet for Kotkaniemi was made I full on thought the Aho situation was Montreal and Carolina colluding. The Aho thing was bizarre, Montreal offer sheets him at a cap hit that probably was at the lower end of what Aho would have received at the time. All it did was take out the prospect of a bridge – but would Carolina have even bridged him? I doubt it, I think they wanted him locked up. So. Montreal’s offer sheet took out the bridge and meant Carolina had Aho locked up at a pretty reasonable cap hit. On Montreal’s side Bergevin could say to the Habs fans, look, I tried to get a top line C but oh well, he’s decided to stay with the Canes. Everyone goes home happy.

Now the Kotkaniemi thing comes along, so I guess maybe they weren’t pleased at all?

OR. It’s all really big brain and Bergevin is happy to take the picks for a player that they’ve kind of mishandled so far in terms of development. Who knows. Makes for interesting twitter times I guess, and it doesn’t involve the Oilers.

I’m still mad that no one stuck in an offer sheet for Elias P. (Unless someone did but he opted not to sign it, usually these things leak though).

flea

Laraque (who has been right on some Habs news in the past) is reporting that the Canes will extend KK long term at a deal around $4M AAV if Montreal walks. (after the initial 6.1M season of course)

I really think they just like the player, they saw an opportunity to get him (short term high AAV offersheet), and took it. I think the rest is just for show, maybe some sour grapes but mostly just marketing. Can’t blame them in a smaller US market. More eyes on the team is a good thing.

Does Seattle take a run at Kailer Yamamoto in a similiar way? I don’t think they’d give up the picks so early in their team development cycle, but if they offered him $4.1M on a 1 year deal Edmonton would be F’d. 2nd round pick would be the compensation – not too bitter of a pill to swallow for Seatlle.

defmn

Is Yamamoto able to accept an offer sheet?

I thought you had to reach arbitration availability for that but now I am not sure why I thought that.

OriginalPouzar

Yes, Yamamoto can be tendered an offer sheet to sign.

You are thinking of a Section 10.2(c) RFA that isn’t eligible for an offer sheet (like Quinn Hughes) but it doesn’t have anything to do with arbitration rights but applies when the player hasn’t accred three year of professional experience.

JK isn’t arb eligible but just signed an offer sheet, for example.

Material Elvis

If it was only about acquiring the player, Carolina would not have released a public statement that was verbatim the statement that the Habs released after they tendered the Sebastian Aho offer sheet. No, this was premeditated;Tom Dundon holds grudges.

Confused

No love for Gally on a PTO?

jp

Was wondering the same.

Galchenyuk?

Durag

Galchenyuk

I’d be for it if only to say that the Oilers have employed 5 of the top 15 picks from that draft!

Last edited 1 month ago by Durag
Material Elvis

And they were in on Ryan Murray this summer, too. Really loading up on the 2012 generational draft….

Reja

Isn’t Gary a announcer for the Habs game.

flea

Only if they bring back Yak to play with him.

cowboy bill

The battle for the two remaining 2 spots on LW will be an interesting one (Shore , Benson , Perlini ) I have to say Shore has the most utility , while Perlini can play either wing , I’m not sure where this leaves Benson unless he hits it out of the park . I’m curious about Kyle Turris , he could surprise this season , at least he should beat out Marody for a spot on the roster. Macleod will be there and I hate to say it , but I have a real bad feeling about Yamamoto , something ain’t right there . Maybe he’s considering a change of career ? Could he be a good hockey analyst ?

Last edited 1 month ago by cowboy bill
Reja

He can see his 2nd line slipping away. Yamo’s one of the few players just like Bear and a bit like Jones that we can make a hockey trade. I see him being traded to Seattle where they’re short on top 6 skill plus the hometown boy will help in the ground zero fan support.

godot10

Is somebody born in Calgary a hometown boy in Edmonton? I don’t think so.

Seattle is blue. Spokane is red.

Kert

Shore’s “utility” is he can play any forward position equally poorly.

(I don’t mind Shore, I just like making jokes at his expense)

defmn

I think Shore’s utility is consistency. The coach knows what he is going to get in most situations. I think coaches value that more than fans generally do.

Material Elvis

Would another utility include spending time in the press box without making noise?

OriginalPouzar

cowboy bill

 August 30, 2021 9:54 am

The battle for the two remaining 2 spots on LW will be an interesting one (Shore , Benson , Perlini ) I have to say Shore has the most utility , while Perlini can play either wing , I’m not sure where this leaves Benson unless he hits it out of the park . I’m curious about Kyle Turris , he could surprise this season , at least he should beat out Marody for a spot on the roster. Macleod will be there and I hate to say it , but I have a real bad feeling about Yamamoto , something ain’t right there . Maybe he’s considering a change of career ? Could he be a good hockey analyst ?

I don’t disagree on the LW battle except:

1) Do we need the “utility” that Shore brings in the lineup? I mean, that utility is mainly the ability to play center (and he can be the 14F/5C) and the PK and the PK now has: Hyman, Nuge, Archie, Foegele, Ryan, Yamamoto, McLeod, Drai.

I mean, do they need Shore on the PK? I’m sure he makes the roster but I don’t think he needs to play ahead of Benson/Perlini on day 1.

Perlini is big, fast and can shoot, he also has a history of Tip and scored goals in the NHL when coached by Tip. On the other hand, coming off poor NHL seasons and a, seemingly, meh season in Switzerland, he probably slides through waivers. Would Benson slide?

2) I don’t have “expectations” for Turris but I could see a real bounce back – he was 0.5 P/G in his last season in NSH. He may be done or, maybe, pre-season Covid last year effed his ability to get ready, had lingering effects, etc? I anticipate he makes the opening 23.

3) With Eli T. signing for 3 X $1.45M today, I think Kailer will be done in short order. I’m not too worried. Lots of these RFAs signed around this time of the off-season – they are always last on the list. If he’s not signed by the time rookie camp starts mid-Sept, then I’ll get concerned.

cowboy bill

Honestly the Oilers would be just fine without Yamamoto , Benson & Marody .. Holland has his bases covered .

OriginalPouzar

Sure, they could be just fine without Yamamoto (and, if he’s traded, it depends on the return and the performance of the asset acquired) but I would prefer Yamamoto on the roster than not and I expect he will be come October.

Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR

This roster is starting to look like one that a PTO would have a hard time to crack. Maybe a Bozak could knock Ryan down to 4C, but really any additions are blocking prospects. I’d prefer to give the MacLeods, Bensons and Bouchard’s a chance to get some solid footing and see where the roster is at the deadline.

meanashell11

Fully agree. I do not want anyone taking ice time away from those we have spent years preparing for this moment.

Shane

Also, Pronman lost me in that article as soon as he said Bouchards puck skills are below average..

Kraz

Apparently Yamamoto is a High-end skater and Holloway is only average? Kind of puzzling to me

OriginalPouzar

Kraz

 Reply to Shane

 August 30, 2021 9:51 am

Apparently Yamamoto is a High-end skater and Holloway is only average? Kind of puzzling to me

This one is indeed puzzling – Holloway’s skating is sublime to me eye and I watched alot of it.

Harpers Hair

He does say:

He can hit seams and make a lot of outlets effectively and be creative with the puck

However there are other puck skills including retrieving them.

Shane

Does that sound ‘below average’ to you?

LMHF#1

Did he just never watch the guy play at all or…??

Darth Tu

That’s fair, we probably do need to reassess what “average” and “good” are now. McDavid probably moved all the brackets down 2 slots as soon as he appeared in the league.

Someone please come up with an equivalency formula.

Material Elvis

LT, next time your wife asks you how she looks, I dare you to use the word ‘average’ in a complimentary way….

godot10

#ThoroughlyMediocreLooking, I think gets one the couch.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

I like the league wide prospect rankings usually for entertainment over accuracy.

The Bouchard, Yamo, and Holloway descriptions read like the CS descriptions of the players on draft day.

I don’t have a real issue with the Oiler’s overall ranking but the individual player descriptions need to be updated.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

I.e. the Oiler’s prospect pool is not particularly deep and some of the top prospects are starting to get a little older and have not yet established themselves as NHLers.

defmn

I like the league wide prospect rankings usually for entertainment over accuracy.

This is the correct take. Off season content filler. It can be a fun read but hard to take seriously considering the disruptions to play over the past couple of seasons.

pts2pndr

Maybe he’s grading them on a figure skater scale!😉

Elgin R

Maybe he is and is using the ‘French’ judging formula.

godot10

People booed Larry Murphy out of a couple of cities. Bowman used him to help win Stanley Cups in two cities.

Shane

Sorry LT, I can’t help myself here:

“I don’t care. I know he’s rumoured to be heading to Florida, but he’s No. 1 on my list until he signs.“

Actually, he’s in fact No. 2 on your list. 😉

Dee Dee

The list order is a Lowetide thing, RW,LHD, RHD, RC ….

Dee Dee

Tough crowd.

Shane

😆