I Remember How The Darkness Doubled

by Lowetide
Photo by Mark Williams

Robbed of the opportunity to see Dylan Holloway and Dmitri Samorukov, Oilers fans had to be content with watching the skills of Philip Broberg, Xavier Bourgault, Raphael Lavoie and Ilya Konovalov at the rookie show late summer 2021.

I would add Phil Kemp (sound defender, wins battles, gorgeous outlet to Devin Brosseau early) and Tyler Tullio, who was involved in many events around the puck, as players worth watching.

The talent on display this week shouldn’t be tossed aside like yesterday’s papers. There is no Connor McDavid or Leon Draisaitl, but there is talent across all positions and a genuine future for six or more young players in the system and currently outside the NHL. The Oilers have a pipeline. For these young men, something is available to them to help with the long climb: Jay Woodcroft to coach them up in Bakersfield.

THE ATHLETIC!

We’re going to spend the next few weeks arguing about four or five roster spots, and before we do, let’s acknowledge the heart of the order.

Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Darnell Nurse, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Jesse Puljujarvi, Zach Hyman, Kailer Yamamoto, Tyson Barrie, Cody Ceci.

That’s your batting order, and hopefully the goaltending, second pair and third line deliver enough good performances for this team to push for the top of the division.

A year ago, opening night, the heart of the order had a different look. McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Nugent-Hopkins, Zack Kassian, Adam Larsson, Kailer Yamamoto, Barrie and Ethan Bear.

The ratio last season was five forwards, four defensemen and zero goalies. This year, it looks like six forwards and three defensemen.

Warren Foegele

One player I believe will have an impact is Foegele from the Carolina Hurricanes. Based on reading countless online articles about his play, and the comments from his coach, I would say the fast winger held high value with the Hurricanes.

My opinion on the deal is stated here, so I will refer you there if this becomes an issue during the course of the day. If Foegele can help the third line outscore opponents, even if the goal total is meager, the impact of a third unit not bleeding out will be substantial.

Zach Hyman

I like the bet, but will tell you I also liked the Milan Lucic bet and that one turned quickly. Hyman is a player with great utility and a man who can flourish on more than one line.

Do you remember when Benoit Pouliot played with Connor McDavid back in 2015-16? In 304 minutes with 97 that season, BP was on the ice for an even-strength goal differential of 22-18 (55 percent) and scored 4-12-16, including nine first assists and a pts-60 at even strength (3.16) that always made me wonder why Milan Lucic was the offseason target the following summer.

Edmonton had Taylor Hall, Leon Draisaitl coming and Benoit Pouliot. The answer, of course, is that the injury of McDavid set a course that landed Lucic, Patrick Maroon and eventually Zack Kassian to the No. 1 line.

Hyman has a ruggedness to him, and McDavid is a veteran now, I think this is a nice mix of brains and brawn.

COMMENTS

There is now an added security element to the blog and it worked so well yesterday no one could comment! You can comment this morning, simply go to the bottom of the comments page and post. It isn’t fancy but will do for the time being. They are working on the issue and of course my sincere apologies. Hopefully we’ll get it working today.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

This will be a busy day, the Oilers likely to announce the training camp roster, and if not there will be leaks about who is on the list. We’ll have plenty of Oilers talk with Tom Gazzola from TSN1260 at 10:20 and will talk Jays in hour two. I expect this is going to be a busy hockey day. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Tune in!

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OriginalPouzar

Holland also called McDavid the most talented player he’s ever had the pleasure of being a manager for – given Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Yzerman, etc……

Kraz

Not sure if this was posted already but anyways Ken Holland had an interview today and dropped a nice little tid bit. Pretty much said he expects Benson to be on the opening night roster and that he would have to play his way off the roster in training camp. Also said he will get lots of preseason action.

https://youtu.be/F3c30eGonEk

OriginalPouzar

Yes, I was just coming to post on this:

– “proven himself to be a top AHL player”

– “He’s going to come to training camp – I’m hoping he can make our team”

– “He came back and played six games and looked real comfortable”

– “Going to give him every opportunity in training camp, he’s going to play lots of exhibition games”

– “He’s going to have to play himself off the roster, I’ve got him pencilled on to the roster”

unca miltie

does everyone have an avatar

Kert

You can change your avatar at gravatar. The new forum is just assigning defaults.

OriginalPouzar

A couple of things:

Yamamoto was on the air yesterday – said he worked on his shot a ton this off-season. Like ALOT.

Tip was on with Reid Wilkins last night:

1) confirmed they’ll be using Turris as a winger in camp

2) talked about they think Benson will really be competing for a spot

3) mentioned a few guys banged up and not sure if they’ll be on the ice at the start of camp.

Harpers Hair

Mike Johnson
@mike_p_johnson
·
1h
Made some predictions on where the final contracts end up on
@NHLNetwork
today. We will see how close I get
Kaprizov 6X9.5
Pettersson 3X7.5
Hughes 8X8.25
Tkachuk 8X8.4
Dahlin 3X6
Robert Thomas 2X3

I’m giving Kaprizov a passing grade as one less year dropped the AAV.

jp

Who do you figure the Canucks are going to trade?

Harpers Hair

They have $16 million in cap space so would be able to fit the contracts suggested by Mike Johnson.

jp

Ah, I thought it was $14M.

When do you figure they’ll sign?

innercitysmytty

With Ferland on LTIR they have $14.1 million in cap space and have 22 other players on the roster. If they drop 2 of those players off the roster they’ll have $15.6-15.8 depending on the players they drop. His predictions push them right to the cap, but they both seem fairly reasonable. Doubt Hughes signs for 8 years though but we’ll see.

Harpers Hair

Sportsnet
@Sportsnet
·
4m
The St. Louis Blues and Robert Thomas, who was the team’s last unsigned restricted free agent heading into training camp, have agreed to a two-year, $5.6-million contract.

leadfarmer

Elvis signed with Cbus
5 years 5.4 per
I know he was on the radar for some but that is a pretty serious commitment

TikkaMesSalo

Maybe. But it’s not a Pistol Pete level gamble on Koskinen either.

Instead of one okay year on an already questionable contract and a dubiously timed over-rich extension, CBJ are betting on a guy they developed (at least partially) and has delivered two quality NHL seasons in a row.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=175015

VS

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=112570

hunter1909

http://www.oilersdeathmarch.com/marches/2021-22

HERE is the link to the contest that won’t go away

PerryK

As I said earlier, change it to Victory Parade! On the other hand…….because Oilers!

Harpers Hair

Kaprizov 5X$9 million in Minnesota.

flyfish1168

To ask for more than Leon after only 1 yr is pretty ballsy.

Harpers Hair

The cap has risen considerably since Draisaitl signed.

jp

It was $75M when Draisaitl signed his deal.

Bank Shot

Can’t expect a Canucks fan to understand the meanings of commonplace words.

Side

This reminds me of when you were proclaiming that the LA Kings and their AHL team were “significantly younger” than all of the other teams.

flyfish1168

So by your calculations, hughes will get 12 and petterson 14. I’m all for that since the CAP is so much more and going up by 1 million next season

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Guerin is really playing 5D chess against himself.

McNuge93

Good benchmark for Petterson. Should leave about 5 mil per year for Hughes.

Brantford Boy
Harpers Hair

The Kings are the youngest team in the Pacific Division.

The Oilers are the oldest.

The Kings 2 oldest players (Dustin Brown 36 and Alex Elder 35) only have 1 year remaining on their contracts.

The Oilers 2 oldest players each has 2 years remaining on their contracts so the age gap will increase even further next season.

godot10

When talking about the average age of a team, one should weight the age by TOI. And then one could also weight it by one’s favorite performance metic.

Harpers Hair

Old defensemen and goaltenders would skew that greatly.

DevilsLettuce

Quick 86, Doughty 89, Kopitar 87.

Brown 84, Edler 86.

Birth years.

Then a roster of a bunch of young people that have never been more successful then Connor McDavid at hockey, that will no be spending the next decade directly playing against the man.

Kings need heaven and Earth to move for their rebuild to vault them into leading contention as you proclaim.

I wonder if the Kings are aware they’ve been cursed.

McDavid. 1997.

ThE kINgS aRe ThE yOuNgEsT

Harpers Hair

Irrelevant.

Kings have an average age of 27 which gets lower next season while the Oilers average jumps to 29.5.

Curses are the currency of the mentally feeble.

Side

The only thing that’s irrelevant is you discussing the LA Kings age in a thread where Brantford Boy posted an article about Zach Hyman.

If you can’t find your glasses, check your head.

OriginalPouzar

Since when does being the youngest team in the league equate to success?

The Oilers were recently among the youngest teams in the league…….

Being the youngest team that also has absolute boatload contracts for older/declining players does not seem conducive to near-term success.

Fuhr and Lowething in Vegreville

Internet trolling is for the socially feeble. Sad sad little man.

pts2pndr

Given that the cap hit on these two players combined is under 4 m it is completely irrelevant you toad!

Harpers Hair

Pete Jensen 🏒 (@NHLJensen) Tweeted:
Projected Pacific Division win totals:

1. VGK: 57 (-1)
2. EDM: 44 (-7)
3. VAN: 43 (+9)
4. LAK: 39 (+8)
5. CGY: 37 (-1)
6. SEA: 36 (N/A)
7. ANA: 29 (+4)
8. SJS: 24 (-7)

Full projections & new podcast: https://t.co/csyXwM6rLr

Randle McMurphy

Edmonton Oilers one of the top 5 oldest teams in the NHL.

Well that happened fast.

godot10

Now weight the average age by TOI.

Whaler Slamamoto

Get a new goalie and they are.top 5 youngest!

N64

test

ChupaCabra

Brogan Rafferty on a PTO?

Harpers Hair

Signed in Anaheim.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Stanley Cup incoming!

GordieHoweHatTrick

Well, if Archie hasn’t been jabbed, it is likely he will also be asked to stay away from camp.
I really hope he is good to go!

Randle McMurphy

Jason Demers

Randle McMurphy

Jason Demers
and
Alex Stalock

PerryK

Archival do getting suspended for failing the physical when he refused to take a COVID test and being suspended!

PerryK

Archibald! Nice autocorrect.

vinotintazo

test

OriginalPouzar

Actually, now I remember, it was Jim Matheson that speculated that Stalock may not be there for the beginning of camp –

DieHard

Would you trade our 1st round pick next year for Yamamoto?

OriginalPouzar

Yes

Randle McMurphy

The 32nd overall pick for a rebounding 2RW. Yes.

David

Nice.

Harpers Hair

Aaron Portzline (@Aportzline) Tweeted:
The Athletic: Blue Jackets tell unvaccinated forward Zac Rinaldo to stay away from training camp

https://t.co/DDa7PTSsoW https://t.co/oNuKyGQyPK

defmn

I expect that to be the norm for every team. As McDavid said last week ‘decisions have consequences’.

Todd Macallan

This would earn a +1 from me on the old blog.

defmn

Ken Campbell
@Ken_Campbell27
Newly acquired defenseman Duncan Keith is still quarantining after receiving his second dose of the vaccine. He will not be with the Edmonton Oilers when they open training camp tomorrow and is expected to miss the first week of camp.

OriginalPouzar

This is disappointing news.

defmn

Reid Wilkins
@ReidWilkins
·
2h
Oilers GM Ken Holland will comment on this in the morning.

Harpers Hair

Odd that he waited so long to get vaccinated.

OriginalPouzar

Agreed – odd.

At the same time, there were “rummors” that two Oilers were not vaccinated – if he was one of the two, then there is only one left and I think we have a fairly good sense of who that may be.

meanashell11

Wasn’t he skating at the captain’s practice last week?

OriginalPouzar

Yes but there may be other protocols for actual training camp.

flyfish1168

Kass is a pump and dump. We are in CAP hell to pay for JP and KY next year. Especially if both knock it out of the park

Reja

One of these players will be gone by this time next year in a package for a Goalie and sure in the hell won’t be Kassian

OriginalPouzar

I thought Yamamoto was to be gone to Washington State by now? Booked!?

If both JP and Yamamoto hit it out of the part and earn contracts in the $4M range, the Oilers may be challenging for the cup this season and, of course, either player could be traded for real value – just when the team has the likes of Lavoie and Holloway ready for impact.

There are also many other avenues that should be available to the GM for cap structuring purposes.

The core is about to go priming and is all signed long term. The secondary pieces are signed medium term.

Real and substantial prospects are ready and/or coming shortly at all positions (give or take tending).

McNuge93

But his point is valid. I know lets just worry about this year for now. But if Klef comes back healthy there are some major cap impications next year. But, i guess these are good things. If Pulu and Yam have grest years AND Klef returns healthy thats a good problem to have. May cost us a draft pick or delay signing a good replacment for Koski. Lets hope both Bouch and Barrie have really goid years and then trade Barrie.

Reja

Nuge, Hyman, Leon and McDavid are locked in the top 6 that leaves 2 spots open arguably they could be filled by the next highest paid wingers Kassian and Foegele. Lavoie, Holloway and hopefully Savoie and there’s still a chance for Benson to be cheap options in the top 6. Who knows maybe Perlini finds gold playing with Connor like Maroon did. What I’m trying to say there just isn’t enough money for a big raise for Yamo and probably Jesse plus we need a goalie and I could see either Yamo or Jesse in the deal.

Reja

Holloway got hurt if you couldn’t see the writing on the wall for Jones and Bear and now Yamo it means your not paying attention.

GordieHoweHatTrick

Only one game, but Konovalov met the verbal. Sound positioning and quick. I am not worried about his size.
Like LT said – He kept them in the game, which is about all you can ask your goalie to do when the ice is tilted like that for more than 2 periods. I am looking forward to his next game and continued growth.

GordieHoweHatTrick

PS. Sorry for breaking the internet yesterday.

GordieHoweHatTrick

The most significant contribution I have ever made to this blog! 🙂

Harpers Hair

Jim Hughson steps away from HNIC for personal reasons.

Randle McMurphy

Is tired of watching the Canucks suck a personal reason?

Ice Sage

Yeah – that just leaves garrett and HH pumping the deflating Orca.
Love the whimsy of these avatars

fishman

Test?

fishman

So watched some of the rookie game last night. Wow Broberg can skate! Obviously needs time in the A but looking forward to watching him in the years ahead. Hard to thing he won’t become at least a top 4 D!

OriginalPouzar

Skating doesn’t slump!

He’s got some chaos in his game on the defensive end – much of it due to the confidence to try and make plays coming out of the defensive zone (and some positional awareness issues) – all stuff that will improve with maturity, development and experience.

A year with Manson and Woodcroft will be perfect for this tantalizing prospect.

Randle McMurphy

Sign above the door of the Lowetide Cafe. To all Oilers fans,

“Look here junior, don’t you be so happy
And for Heaven’s sake, don’t you be so sad”

BONE207

Cafe? It’s a Bar & Grille…with room for a band & a foul smelling rug out on the patio.

Now that the politicians are finished, let’s play hockey!!!

Randle McMurphy

Judging by the Avitars, I think the site may be infected with a virus. 5h wave?

flyfish1168

Thank you, LT for this site.

Shane

+1

LadiesloveSmid

Ethan Bear played 22 minutes/GP in 2020, 18 minutes/GP in 2021. Had best 5v5 results w/o McDavid among oiler D.

Foegele played 14 minutes/GP in Carolina.

Looks to be a nice addition to the bottom 6, but that player is easier to find than $2M 2nd pairing RHD. Replacing Bear with Ceci hurts the team more than replacing Chiasson with Foegele helps.

JJS

I think superficially, that has always been our belief. However, a third line bleeding goals has been our Achilles forever

It may be easier to overcome the absence of Bear (who I liked – but didn’t have a dramatic impact on most games) than we think.

Is Ceci a suitable replacement? Probably not. But is the difference in ‘game impact’ bigger than a leaky third line? I guess we’ll see.

J-Bo

Agreed. Also though, Ceci is not his replacement, Bouchard is. Ceci is simply a place holder until they are confident he can be top 4. To be honest, over the next three years I believe we are better off with Foegle and Bouchard, then we were with the number of 3rd line wingers who never cut the mustard and Bear.

PennersPancakes

Is Ethan Bear a 2m 2RD? I eagerly wait to see how he plays in Carolina. I think as a human being hes great but never saw anything more long term than a third pairing defender. Smaller defender with no elite skating or offensive ability. I didnt hear any other fan bases saying they wish they offered more than Foegele. Bear had a decent season 2 years ago after Larsson went down and was paired with Nurse, then he had a lacklustre season where he suffered a concussion mid way through.

I view the replacements very differently. Even by their styles it makes more sense. Bear and Bouchard are offensively minded younger players (Bouchard had 3 less points in 29 less games). Bouchard is the future, higher pedigree, larger player, better skater. Larsson and Ceci are near washes based off last years performance and while Larsson has better defensive skills Ceci can move the puck much better but is the closest match on the right side considering age, style, price.

Barrie -> Barrie
Larsson -> Ceci
Bear -> Bouchard

Reja

In the Chicago series and the Jet series the game plan opposition was the same dump it in Bear’s corner and take the body and he will turnover the puck. Wasn’t it Caggiula who absolutely destroyed him the corner when Bear had his head down. Anyhow Bear was expendable and Holland wanted to beef up our team after we got bounced so quickly the last 2 years.

OriginalPouzar

Comparing TOI for forwards vs. d-men doesn’t provide real value effects.

12F vs. 6D – 3rd pairing D play more than middle six wingers in some instances.

Bear will be missed, absolutely. Foegele provides a skill-set this team desperately needs and is elite at helping in the team’s biggest deficiency over the last number of years.

Bear has one year until RFA with arb rights.

Foegele is signed for 3 years at $2.75M for his prime years – that’s a value contract – he’s already proven to be worth it.

OriginalPouzar

Comparing TOI for forwards vs. d-men doesn’t provide real value effects.

12F vs. 6D – 3rd pairing D play more than middle six wingers in some instances.

Bear will be missed, absolutely. Foegele provides a skill-set this team desperately needs and is elite at helping in the team’s biggest deficiency over the last number of years.

Bear has one year until RFA with arb rights.

Foegele is signed for 3 years at $2.75M for his prime years – that’s a value contract – he’s already proven to be worth it.

OriginalPouzar

I can’t remember where I read or heard it – maybe it was listening to Gregor at the gym this morning.

EIther way, it was for a reputable source and indicated that Stalcok may not be there when camp starts.

I’m not sure why that might be the case (in particular given last week Holland said (to Gregor) that he had spoken to Stalock and his agent and Alex was ready to compete for a job at camp, etc.) but I read/heard it earlier today.

MushedPeas

I’m bullish on the coming season, but even if I were not, pretty sure this’ll be the first time I get full value for my Rogers NHL package.

Silver Streak

I liked what I saw last night in Konovalov….although it took a while to get used to seeing an Oiler Goalie who mask was just a bit higher than the crossbar ! He is just maybe, our best drafted G prospect in years….looks very calm, has great quick legs, very strong prospect in my opinion. He`s too good for the ECL, but will he see enough ice in Bakersfield ?

Darth Tu

Or…. If the League does go with the taxi squad thing for goalies then Stalock would likely be the 3rd man in Edmonton as with last season.

OriginalPouzar

I agree with both of you with one caveat: clearing waivers as it relates to Stalock – none zero chance he gets claimed. If they go with the goalie taxi squad, and I really hope they do, I hope they come to an agreement to bypass waiver exposure – the players may not go for that but it would help quite a bit.

I doubt Holland would do it but 3 goalies on the 23 man roster is the other (less than ideal) option.

I think its almost a certainty that Rodrigue will be in Wichita and Skinner/Konovalov in Bakersfield.

The question is where the 3G will be.

Darth Tu

Agreed – that goalie carousel thing last year was a gong show for what felt like half the league. Surely GMs might want to say that having a waiver exemption thing in place for goalies, or at least the first goalie you move to taxi squad, is a good idea.

OilinYYC

Did you get a Grant Fuhr feel when watching him play? Not necessarily his goaltending ability but rather his size, gate and position.

OilinYYC

Referring to Konovalov

Coilers2021

I’m very curious to know how well Konovalov played last night.

I remain cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season as I think the team could do some very real damage during the regular season and some noise in the playoffs. My hope is that the team remains injury free as one or two of those could seriously derail the entire season.

Randle McMurphy

Didn’t see the game, but would suggest Konovalov will need 20 games or so to adjust to North American ice and angles.

OriginalPouzar

This is likely (and its likely he spends most of the season in the AHL – maybe an NHL opportunity if there are injuries).

At the same time, both Samorukov and Konovalov have mentioend that about 70% of the rinks in the KHL are now smaller, NHL or close to NHL size. I think he’s already got experience on the angles. There is a big style difference though where they shoot from everywhere in the NHL and jam for rebounds – not the same in the KHL where they don’t shoot from the boards and bag angles with the same regularity.

Randle McMurphy

Putin adopting North American ice surface size; the last bastion of communism has fallen!

meanashell11

He did not look like he needed 20 games last night. If it were not for his play the Oiler rookies would have been crushed. He made a number of very big saves. The Calgary crew were talking about him all game. By the way, I recommend the interview with him on Oilers TV. It was before the game but a good interview. Some dumbass questions about his height but generally interesting. Note he does not speak english or at least not enough for the interview but Safin interpreted for him and I thought it was kind of funny!

Randle McMurphy

This is good to hear. Konovalov has been my sleeper pick for “strongest outperformer amongst prospects” in camp.

This is good to hear. Konovalov has been my sleeper pick for “strongest outperformer amongst prospects” in camp.

Will check out the interview. Thanks.

OriginalPouzar

Stupid 9 hour time change so I didn’t see the game but it sounds like Konovalov may have been the team’s best player. At the same time, lets ground ourselves about what that means. We know that training camp performances often mean almost nothing let alone a rookie camp game – there are over-age players just hoping/praying to get an AHL contract offer.

jp

I generally agree about camp/rookie camp meaning nothing, but I’ve believed since 2019 that Benson and Marody’s very underwhelming rookie camp that year left a lasting negative impression on those evaluating them.

Randle McMurphy

I haven’t taken a close look at the cap situation for next year other than the cursory, “we are capped out” view.
But several of Hollands recent signings were done with out any conditions, Ceci, Ryan, Shore, Koekoek, Smith and the one that surprised me the most Barrie.

So I’m not worried about our ability to procure a goalie and sign Yamo and JP.

A fire sale on any of the two above or the disposal of Kassian’s contract (with or without a sweetener) should get the job done.

Randle McMurphy

I wonder if this pending cap crunch is part of the reasoning for showcasing Kassian on the top line or in the top 6?

Reja

Kassian not going anywhere he’s part of the core for the next 3 years.

DevilsLettuce

Jack Hughes, what a gent.

flyfish1168

Kass is a pump and dump. We are in CAP hell to pay for JP and KY next year. Especially if both nock it out of the park

OriginalPouzar

Moving out Ryan, Shore and Koekkoek doesn’t really alleviate any cap issues as they would need to be replaced on the roster and the replacement likely no cheaper. In any event, I had a long post about this the other day – there should be many mid-cap moveable players after this season. Barrie and Ceci being the main ones. Kassian, with a year, could perhaps make himself tradeable without a poison pill.

Also, the likes of Archie and Turris should be replaced by guys like Holloway and Lavoie which provides cap savings and, of course, a trade of Kailer or Jesse themselves, to the extent their play has warranted a real raise, means they bring back real value.

There is a whole season to play out first but there should be a multitude of avenues to deal with the cap come the summer.

Randle McMurphy

Agreed, I meant to add that it is still contingent upon one or two of our A level prospects filling holes while on entry level contracts, which seems probable.

DieHard

If you could only have one of Yamamoto or Jesse. Which would you pick (both played well). I pick the big guy.

defmn

Probably the big guy but I think who you trade should depend on who you can get back.

Lots of things can happen on the road to grandma’s house before this becomes important though. I don’t think Holland is finished shaping this team and there is a chance that neither of these two is here long term.

The cap pretty much requires a steady rotation of ELC’s for given the money tied up in McDavid, Nurse, Draisaitl, Hyman and Nuge.

PennersPancakes

I choose the guy listed 8 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier.

OriginalPouzar

I am very much looking forward to having Foegele in the Oilers’ lineup this year and, for me, those that simply hate the trade are mostly propagating their anti-Holland narrative (and others, in my opinion, overvaluing/undervaluing Bear/Foegele).

I like Ethan Bear and I wish he was still an Oiler. I wish him well in his career and hope that he establishes himself as a legit 2nd pairing d-man and has a great career. At the same time, I am VERY happy to have Foegele on this team and, as of now, the trade value seems fairly equal.

Foegele is a player that the Oilers have needed to add to the lineup for a very long time – he is a player that helps drive results on a 3rd line, plays with pace and aggressiveness, retrieves pucks, plays responsible all over the ice, kills penalties, goes to the hard areas and scores girtty goals. He really is what Zack Hyman was just a few years ago. This team’s biggest issue has been getting caved in the McDavid/Drai off minutes and this is the exact player that helps with that issue.

When I read/hear “they traded a cost-controlled 2RD with upsdie for a 3rd liner” it reads/sounds as pure narrative to me. Ethan Bear has played top pairing RD but, at the same time, he isn’t established as an every day 2RD – he may soon but he simply hasn’t. Sure, Foegele is a “3rd liner” but he’s already established as an elite 3rd liner who helps drives, who also impacts the special teams, and has clear 2nd pairing upside. In what world is Bear, signed for one more year and then in need of a contract with arb rights more cost-controlled than Foegele who is now signed for 3 X $2.75M for the beginning of his prime years. He’s already worth that AAV and there is clear room for growth and upside.

This was a hockey trade and the Oilers got value, and paid value. The Oilers could ver well win this trade. The Canes could win this trade. Both teams could win this trade.

Foegele is going to be massive helping the Oilers McDavid/Drai off minutes – the primary issue over the last few years.

Randle McMurphy

It’s a very good example of how you define something making all the difference.

I tend to agree with OP’s view on this subject and yet I know your definition is accurate.

Can’t put my finger on it…Bear zoomed by Nurse?…Bear shy on offense?…Bear not a cycle breaker?….Bear susceptible to concussion due to style of play?…

Perhaps, Hurricane Bear will have the final say on this?

Randle McMurphy

it kind of felt like, Bear on the cusp of top 4 RD, and Foegele on the cusp of top 6 fwd, that introduces shades of grey

defmn

I have nothing to add on the Bear/Foegele trade that I have not already stated several times but I am curious to see what kind of bug this site envisions me as so thought I would drop this into the conversation.

BONE207

I always felt Bear would be great on the 3rd pairing but playoffs show that he was not ready or too small for the physicality. He just needed to be more & that may have come. Did we lose a good one?

OriginalPouzar

I would suggest that Bear spent one season as a top d-man (in 2019/20) and, last season, lost that job to Tyson Barrie during the year and mostly played 3rd pairing. It is becoming oubvious, that Darnell Nurse does make his partner better (Bear in 2019/20 and Barrie in 2021), likely with some help from McDavid.

I did say that he has played top paring and I also said that he remains non established as an every day top 4RD, given he lost that job last season and played mostly 3RD after (with high end PK mind you).

OriginalPouzar

Also, what does “cost controlled” mean? Bear is an RFA with arb rights after one season. He isn’t more cost-controlled than any other player with a contract, is he? Foegele is cost-controlled for 3 seasons, Bear for 1.

Randle McMurphy

Good back and forth by the two of you. It’s like being in the room with two scouts who trying to convince the GM of which player to take. Quality points on both sides.

pts2pndr

Bear never lost his job to Barrie. Barrie was brought in to be a top four D but was found wanting if not paired with Nurse!

OriginalPouzar

Bear started the season paired with Nurse and Barrie started the season paired with Koekkoek.

Attila

Totally agree.

ashley

Defenders are more valuable than forwards. Top 4 defenders are like gold. 3LW are available every July 1 and sometimes on waivers.

This trade has a high probability of making Holland look like a fool.

Nothing against Foegele who I am sure is a fine third line hockey player.

defmn

Bear seems to be in the process of becoming the new Hall on this site.

OriginalPouzar

Bear was not a top 4 defender last season – he started off the season as one, based on his previous year, he lost the job to Tyson Barrie for most of the year.

The Oilers have been looking for a player that provides on-ice results like Warren Foegele for years, in fact, missing that player has been part of the team’s biggest deficiency for years – this player at this cost going in to his prime is not available on waivers ever nor at free agency at under $3M.

Overvaluing what Bear has established. Undervaluing what Foegele has established.

pts2pndr

You can phrase this or argue it any way you want to but the bottom line is Bear did not lose his job to Barrie. Barrie was found wanting as in a team negative as in not a top four D man if not paired with Nurse!!

defmn

Uh, yeah, he did. The phrasing you are referring to is from those explaining why they think Bear lost his job to Barrie.

OriginalPouzar

You can have your opinion but there are facts that say Bear lost his job in the top 4 to Barrie given Bear started the season with Nurse as 1RD and Barrie started the season down the line-up as 3RD.

OriginalPouzar

Please, explain how that is a misreprentation.

Did Bear not start the season as 1RD with Nurse?

Did Barrie not start the season down the lineup?

Was Bear’s start to the season not considered by most to be, lets say, “uneven” despite good possession numbers (which, of course, never tell the entire story on a player)?

Did Barrie not move up the lineup when Bear got hurt and keep his position as 1RD after Bear’s return?

Randle McMurphy

A game day and no commenting? Betting OP pumped a lot of iron yesterday.

OriginalPouzar

OP pumps iron every day – no worries about that. The game started at 3am my time so I wouldn’t have been commenting in any event.

Kert

Oh wow, does the comment section support full threaded/nested replies? Neat. And no +/-? How will I know how little people respect HH with out the +/-?

Randle McMurphy

haha. For reasons beyond my control, I was otherwise occupied yesterday. Turned out to be a good thing, what with the Lowetide Lockout, the Jays losing, and the Lames winning. 🙂

Randle McMurphy

OP wisely pumps his muscles, while I fatalistically hope my main muscle continues pumping.

Side

Excellent penis joke.

Ryan

Old school comment section today.

BONE207

I just come for the avatars & the +/- anyway.