It Don’t Come Easy

In 2018-19, the average NHL team scored and allowed 244 goals. Edmonton scored 229, off the pace but in the range. However, the team’s goals against total was 271, making the goal differential -42. Clawing back that many goals in one summer is impossible, but closing the gap has to be the goal. Have the Oilers improved this summer?

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: Adding a scorer will be Ken Holland’s first big move as Oilers GM
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the Oilers’ depth chart looks like now and where they go from here
  • New Jonathan Willis: How often do goalies like the Oilers’ Mike Smith rebound?
  • New Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster moves clear the way for Oilers top prospects Tyler Benson and Kailer Yamamoto.
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A deeper look at Mike Smith’s comments after signing with the Oilers
  • New Jonathan Willis: Oilers GM Ken Holland promises long-term rewards for an approach light on short-term improvements
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Trade market now most likely place for Oilers to find scoring winger
  • New Lowetide: Oilers add free agent Markus Granlund, creating a crowded depth chart at left wing
  • New Jonathan Willis: Tomas Jurco is a nice little reclamation bet by the Oilers.
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: How re-signing winger Alex Chiasson impacts the Oilers
  • New Lowetide: Oilers add Mike Smith to an uneasy goalie depth chart for 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Oilers buy out Andrej Sekera, look to a more dynamic free-agent frenzy.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘He comes as advertised’: Philip Broberg’s skating makes him development camp standout for Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers plan to skew younger on defence could open the door for Evan Bouchard, Dmitri Samorukov
  • Lowetide: Taking stock of Oilers prospects ready to graduate with a clear shot at an NHL job in 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.
  • Lowetide: Are these Jesse Puljujarvi’s final days with the Edmonton Oilers?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ranking the Oilers’ trade assets from the high-priced diamonds to those needing fresh starts
  • Lowetide: Oilers GM Ken Holland is shopping for 20-goal scorers on a budget. What will he find?

PROJECTED LINEUP 2019-20

Can this lineup score more than 229 goals? Although Leon scored 50 last season, McDavid popped 41 and Zack Kassian 15 — 106 goals in total — my early RE projections have this group scoring just 88 in 2019-20. Now, that will get tweaked and if the Oilers acquire a scoring right winger we can project higher.

The No. 2 line? Well, I’ll guess 52. Third line? 35. The rest of the forwards? 25. That’s 200. Add the defense and you’re looking at 230. That’s about what the team managed last season, when the 229 Edmonton goals ranked the team No. 20 among 31 teams. Not close to good enough. As I wrote this morning for The Athletic, Ken Holland has to get some scoring before training camp. By the way, that isn’t my final lineup, suspect Tyler Benson makes that one.

I can answer that one, or at least give you Holland’s thinking based on his own words. In the book “Behind the Moves” Holland says “the minute a young kid would play well (in the minors) for six weeks, he’d get called up and provide a bit of a spark. Then six weeks later they’re sent down and they’re beaten up. I learned people are ready when they’re ready and I learned about the importance of building their foundation.”

Holland would prefer to keep Benson in Bakersfield for another 40 games, but it’s uncertain he can do it. Same goes for Marody and Yamamoto.

I spoke to Daniel Nugent-Bowman from The Athletic on the Lowdown yesterday, his intel has Broberg playing in the SHL in 2019-20. That’s fine, his minutes and production can be tracked. I don’t think he’ll get much in the way of power-play time, so the boxcars won’t pop. That said, his five-on-five goal differential can be tracked from a league that has seen tremendous blue his age perform at varying levels.

Ilya Konovalov

Red Line: Classic late-bloomer was a dominant force in the KHL and blossomed into the league’s top rookie. Extreme battler who will stop pucks with any body part and refuses to lose. Lacks ideal NHL size, but is athletic, flexible, well balanced, and smart.

I like Dzingel as the best available for Edmonton, although American free agents often choose American teams. Dzingel is a first-shot scorer and has established himself as a solid percentage marksman. You’re not getting a two-way winger, you’re getting the bat over the glove.

Ferland holds my interest, Johansson too and Vanek might be a useful add late August if the scorer hasn’t been identified.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy Friday morning with all hell about to break loose. Starts at 10, TSN1260. Steve Lansky from BigMouthSports will pop in to chat Mitch Marner offer sheet, Kawhi’s whereabouts and CFL’s “Live Mic” moments from week one. Hart from Puck Pedia will join us to chat about cap room in Toronto, on the island and in Edmonton. Crazy day! 10-1260 text @Lowetide on twitter. I’m getting the vapors because of Lou!

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192 Responses to "It Don’t Come Easy"

  1. Marc says:

    Disappointed that you didn’t go with ‘My Dzingel-Ling’ as the title for this post

  2. Lowetide says:

    Marc:
    Disappointed that you didn’t go with ‘My Dzingel-Ling’ as the title for this post

    That song (by Chuck Berry) was the subject of great irritation when it was a hit. My Dad did NOT approve!

  3. Andy Dufresne says:

    Best available Dzingle

    Most likely Boyle or Maroon

    Holland connection Vanek

  4. Andy Dufresne says:

    Lowetide: That song (by Chuck Berry) was the subject of great irritation when it was a hit. My Dad did NOT approve!

    My dad called my brother a Ding a Ling and I played with him all the time. Thats what the song is about…right? 😉

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    Improvements in goals against comes down to goaltending at the highest level.

    In isolation, has the tending improved? Koskinen, well, one generally doesn’t see improvement in a player’s 30s, however, maybe there is something to to 2nd year on North American ice – hopefully. I don’t see Smith being any worse than Talbot and he has a history of plus play for significant stretches.

    Of course, the defensive group and team defence will factor in to goaltending. In isolation the defence hasn’t improved but, as of now, we have a healthy Klefbom and simply more depth for injury fill ins at the lower level – not the Gravel’s and the Petrovic’s of the league but young skill with mobility and puck moving ability. Player’s more conducive to the current NHL game.

    Potential improvement in the bottom six will, generally, hopefully, keep the puck out of our zone a bit more.

    Adding Granlund, Hass and Nygard may just help the PK – they all have lots of pro experience.

    New coach with defensive strategies and new strategies to move the puck out of the zone.

    All or some of these should help.

    Fantasy?

  6. Andy Dufresne says:

    FUN FACT: The NHL Calder trophy for Rookie of the Year, has been won 11 times by someone age 25 or older!

    Gaetan Haas is on an ELC. Wouldn’t it be hilarious after having Gretzky and McDavid (and a host of others) the first Oiler to ever win the Calder trophy was Gaetan Haas?!?!

    All he needs to do is pot 30 goals this year.

  7. Coiler says:

    I like Holland’s approach/quote to the development of the players. A complete 180 from what the Oilers have done in the past. Refreshing.

    Dzingel would be the obvious choice to fill that need for the team but his ask would likely be out of what the team could afford.

  8. London Jon says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    FUN FACT: The NHL Calder trophy for Rookie of the Year, has been won 11 times by someone age 25 or older!

    Gaetan Haas is on an ELC. Wouldn’t it be hilarious after having Gretzky and McDavid (and a host of others) the first Oiler to ever win the Calder trophy was Gaetan Haas?!?!

    All he needs to do is pot 30 goals this year.

    Don’t know if he Haas it in him

  9. Andy Dufresne says:

    Foot speed aside, Brian Boyles fancies are what we all dream Jujhar Khaira will become sometime soon.

    Boyle at 1 x $2m is actually pretty attractive.

    Career 50% faceoff guy
    60% Dzone 40% Ozone
    Slighty negative possession
    Slighty positive goal share
    13 min a night

    Dont know his QoC numbers

    But if hes close to sawing off against top six or even 30% elites then hes a pretty solid option at 3C

    Oh Yeah….scored 18 goals last year (near career high)
    He’s pretty much a 10 goal 20 pt player. With a little luck he pots 15 which is completely acceptable at 3C and 13 minutes a game.

  10. Jaxon says:

    London Jon: Don’t know if he Haas it in him

    Maybe not, but then again he might score like a Haas on fire.

  11. Caribbeerman says:

    Just like everyone else I see trade to acquire a 20 goal scorer – Kassian, Jessie and Bear as assets out to acquire. I can see a Lucic for similar contract type – my ultimate hope would be a 3 way with Calgary & Vancouver where we acquire Neal. And we could end signings with a Maroon add in the middle of summer. That to me is the most that we can ask for – and hope that with Benson & Jones along with better defensive system coverage especially on the PK – that we have enough to make the playoffs.

  12. OriginalPouzar says:

    I just can’t get on-board with Chiasson in the top 6 unless he’s with Drai (who he’s shown well with) and also without McDavid (who he’s shown to be a drag on). Based on historical results the solution is a McDavid/Drai split. Drai can drive offence without McDavid at top line rates and, also, since Hitch “fixed” him he has shown not to leak and, actually, to be a plus 200 foot player.

    Also, Hass can’t be pencilled in as 3C – I’m not even sure he’s an NHL player. I know his camp has essentially said that the agreement is NHL or back to Europe (well, a few weeks of AHL adjustment would be OK) but he’s got to be knocked down to the 4th line.

    A Lindberg, Sheehan, Marleau, Eakin, Boyle, etc. needs to happen – the 3C that I’m confident Holland will acquire.

  13. frjohnk says:

    -Our 3 best players ( McDavid, Drai and RNH) all had career years
    -2 other forwards, Chiasson and Kassian had their best years.

    so to increase goals scored, we need these guys to stay healthy and at least meet 18-19’s production bar while having a couple other players join them by having career years, or bounce back ( ie Lucic if he stays.

    Overall, we were basically league average in man games lost. Since the injury plagued 15-16 season, I have always just hoped for league average injuries, we got that last year, injuries happen so Im hoping for the same for next year.

    I dont think we will score much more, so in order to cut down the -GD, we need better goaltending.
    Both Smith and Koskinen need to better this coming year than they were last year.
    Will they?
    I have no fricking clue.

  14. jtblack says:

    I agree with you LT. The team has not improved offensively at all ..

    I look at that roster and cringe … Last year the team needed 90% of things to break their way to have a chance … things didn’t and Edm got 78 points ..

    Goaltending? major question mark for me …..

    RHD? Same as it always was …..

    Bottom 6? Same as it always was …..

    in KEN we Trust …. based on his verbal I think he is seriously committed to 2020 / 2021 and the seasons beyond that . This could be a long, frustrating campaign for Edm again ..

  15. Jaxon says:

    I hope the Oilers stay away from Maroon and he takes whatever the Blues offer him. If he’s affordable the Blues would be silly not to sign him. From a personal happiness standpoint, I have to believe it’s the best for him and his son. EW projects him at 3 x $3.5. there’s no way he gets that but he might fetch 3×2, or 3×1.5 which would bring his career earnings to the $14M to $15M range. His family is well set up for a very advantageous future. I hope he stays.

  16. OriginalPouzar says:

    I suspect the Benson is competing with Jurco for a top 6 wing spot. Given age, who acquired the player, etc., I suspect that Jurco has the upper hand and we’ll see Benson once a top 6 injury occurs or a failing by the initial group.

  17. OriginalPouzar says:

    I suspect that Broberg will indeed be back in Sweden – if the team is leaving the choice mainly up to him, given money and comfort, I think he’ll chose to stay home for one more year.

    If that is the case, I think primary goals should be:

    1) stay in the top league playing for Skellefteå and avoid “relegation” to Allsvenskan; and

    2) gain the trust of the coach through the year and gain minutes playing legit top 4 by year end.

    The numbers won’t pop – I don’t even think they did for Karlsson – we’ll need to rely on inside intel from Swedish Poster and others with connections.

  18. nvan97 says:

    Jaxon: Maybe not, but then again he might score like a Haas on fire.

    It will help if he’s Gaetan some power play time.

  19. pts2pndr says:

    I will not be surprised if the opening lineup has Lagesson instead of Jones on the third pairing. Lagesson is the better defender and actually makes it difficult for opposition forwards. If Jones is the third pairing left D so much for cutting into the goals against.

  20. Andy Dufresne says:

    Caribbeerman:
    Just like everyone else I see trade to acquire a 20 goal scorer – Kassian, Jessie and Bear as assets out to acquire. I can see a Lucic for similar contract type – my ultimate hope would be a 3 way with Calgary & Vancouver where we acquire Neal. And we could end signings with a Maroon add in the middle of summer. That to me is the most that we can ask for – and hope that with Benson & Jones along with better defensive system coverage especially on the PK – that we have enough to make the playoffs.

    I think you nailed it, with realistic expectations.

    Personally, I think that Kassian is a 20 goal scorer
    Given our current circumstances I dont mess with Draisaitl McDavid Kassian this year.

  21. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – The problem with the analysis that we didn’t score enough goals last year, so we have to get a guy from another team who looked good in that situation in that team and “transport” those goals

    – A healthy, puck transporting D corps will result in a lot more goal scoring

    – Not letting in 1st shot goals so the team is scrambling 15+ times will help

    – Not waking up every day and wondering who is going to coach, who is going to get fired will help

    – Whoever plays with McD is going to score a lot, same with Drai

    – Having more speed skill on all the lines will help

    – Scoring more goals on the PP will help

    – Having goalies that play well and have defined roles and scedules will help

    – Here are guys on the roster that for sure score more than 10 goals if healthy, in a good situation: Pool, Jar, Gagner, Chiasson, Kassian

    – Here are guys that might be able to score more than 10 goals if healthy, in a good situation: Granlund, Jurco, Marody, Nygard, Lucic

    – Here are guys that if they do well in the AHL might be able to score more than 10 goals pro-rata if they tear it up for half-season: Benson, Kailer

    – Here are the guys that have no chance of scoring 10 goals: Colby, Brodziak

    – Last year when healthy for instance Jar-RNH-Pool was very effective

    – Dzingel: healthy scratched: no thanks.

    – I think thinking that paying some dude in full at 27 + and projecting him into our line-up, and paying the Oiler premium (term and size) to get him would be a bad move.

    – Eventually we will be able to make a trade from strength, or our draft and develop are ready, or the system clicks and some of the guys above have good years, or we get lucky (mostly luck)

    – If there is a hockey trade that makes sense and we can trade some D: do that at some point.

    – But looking at the past, and assuming its the future is just wrong: we just don’t know.

  22. JJS says:

    The biggest factor re goals against last year = injured defense without suitable replacements, Brodziak, goaling, and a horrendous PK

    I don’t feel we have upgraded our D to any great extent although we do have tremendous talent bubbling under – and aren’t relying on Sekera to get healthy

    Our 4th line center will not be Brodz

    Goaling upgrade? Not sure yet.

    Our PK has a few additional burners although not elite

    Add this up and we may be slightly better in the goals against department.

  23. Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR says:

    Andy Dufresne: I think you nailed it, with realistic expectations.

    Personally, I think that Kassian is a 20 goal scorer
    Given our current circumstances I dont mess with DraisaitlMcDavidKassian this year.

    We said the same thing about McDavid-Nuge-Rattie this time last year. I agree that should be the first line going into camp, but highly doubt it will happen.

  24. Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR says:

    Goaltending was a huge part of the problem last year. If you ignore the heater from Koskinen, it was probably the worst in the league. Not sure if Smith is the guy, but he really can’t be any worse than what we had. That is how the gap gets closed. I don’t see them scoring more than last year unless they can add a scoring forward. I’d settle for Neal if Looch goes out the door. For what it’s worth, Neal broke into the league under Tippet.

  25. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR: We said the same thing about McDavid-Nuge-Rattie this time last year.I agree that should be the first line going into camp, but highly doubt it will happen.

    Kassian >> Rattie

  26. godot10 says:

    Offer sheet Sam Bennett before he files for arbitration today Ken. 2nd round compensation level. 2-years $3 million something.

    Make problems for the Flames.

  27. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I dare to dream that JP will come back and actually work out (more approaching expectations) at 2RW.

    Other than that, this is really another development year to figure out who stays and who goes in the years ahead when there is a better chance of success.

    From the new flock of bottom 6 candidates, which ones will do their jobs and stick around for the following 4-5 years?

    Another year for Benson, KY, Bouch, Samorukov and Lavoie to develop and seriously push in 2020

    Another year for Konovalov to develop as the next franchise goalie (cause I don’t think the others in the system are 1A in the next 2-3 years). Koskinen could be an excellent 1B on the last 2 years of his contract.

    I am excited to see the prospects develop. I wish they were all ready this year 😜

  28. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    I’d like to see Ferland in. Marleau I think is too slow now. I’d lie to see a group of similar aged players bond and show a pack mentality.

    Hopefully Tippett will be able to forge a cohesive team working together. I’d like to see an Oilers team that doesn’t “look” defeated all the time the way they seem to have been since, well, thirty years? Give or take a few exceptions.

  29. LadiesloveSmid says:

    We should expect lower scoring seasons from Draisaitl, RNH, and Chiasson. Probably Nurse as well.

    I don’t know outside of Benson/Yamamoto/Puljujarvi that anyone else has the potential to pop offensively. 2 of those bets failed last season.

    There’s good reason to believe the group as it stands now, will perform worse than last season’s roster.

  30. tileguy says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Best available Dzingle

    Most likelyBoyle or Maroon

    Holland connection Vanek

    I think you may have found the defining transaction in the Dutch era, same ol same ol or fresash air, what will it be?

  31. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    Also I think while there’s plenty of blame to spread around, JP is not doing himself any favors and risks ever having a big NHL contract. But I fear he is a lost cause as far as the Oilers are concerned.

    Maybe there is something to the issue that resulted in McD and Drai not wanting to play with him. Too bad really whatever the issue was.

  32. Pescador says:

    godot10:
    Offer sheet Sam Bennett before he files for arbitration today Ken.2nd round compensation level.2-years $3 million something.

    Make problems for the Flames.

    I like Bennett, but I would rather spend the few remaining cap dollars on Gusev,
    Trade proposal is Puljujarvi & 2020 3rd round pick

  33. Andy Dufresne says:

    Happy thought of the day.

    Conner McDavid……Age…….22

    That is all.

  34. godot10 says:

    I think Bennett would sign an offer sheet. He is blocked in Calgary.

    Bennett, McDavid, Kassian (sandpaper on both sides of McDavid)
    Benson, Draisaitl, Chiasson (a playmaking partner for Draisaitl, and a shooter in Chiasson)
    Khaira, Nugent-Hopkins, Puljujarvi/Nygard/somebody

  35. GMB3 says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    We should expect lower scoring seasons from Draisaitl, RNH, and Chiasson. Probably Nurse as well.

    I don’t know outside of Benson/Yamamoto/Puljujarvi that anyone else has the potential to pop offensively. 2 of those bets failed last season.

    There’s good reason to believe the group as it stands now, will perform worse than last season’s roster.

    I’m already brushing up on my 2020 prospects

  36. Darth Tu says:

    godot10:
    I think Bennett would sign an offer sheet.He is blocked in Calgary.

    Bennett, McDavid, Kassian (sandpaper on both sides of McDavid)
    Benson, Draisaitl, Chiasson (a playmaking partner for Draisaitl, and a shooter in Chiasson)
    Khaira, Nugent-Hopkins, Puljujarvi/Nygard/somebody

    Offer sheet Tkachuk!

    Seriously though, Bennett would be a decent acquisition, and more realistic in terms of available cap.

  37. GMB3 says:

    Pescador: I like Bennett, but I would rather spend the few remaining cap dollars on Gusev,
    Trade proposal is Puljujarvi & 2020 3rd round pick

    If that is enough to get him out of Vegas, I’m all for it, but I don’t think we have the cap space to account for Smiths bonuses and Gusev.

  38. Andy Dufresne says:

    Anyone understand what the possibilities are for Ilya Konovalov to leave the KHL before his 2 year contract has expired?

    How does that typically work? If he wants out of his KHL contract, how does he do that?

  39. GMB3 says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    We should expect lower scoring seasons from Draisaitl, RNH, and Chiasson. Probably Nurse as well.

    I don’t know outside of Benson/Yamamoto/Puljujarvi that anyone else has the potential to pop offensively. 2 of those bets failed last season.

    There’s good reason to believe the group as it stands now, will perform worse than last season’s roster.

    I don’t see how we can reasonably expect anything better than last season with a Koski/Smith duo and a Nurse-Russell second pair. If Persson shows capable of playing on the second pairing? Maybe.

    I would predict a bit of a return to form from Klefbom-Larsson though.

  40. Ryan says:

    Not close to good enough. As I wrote this morning for The Athletic, Ken Holland has to get some scoring before training camp. By the way, that isn’t my final lineup, suspect Tyler Benson makes that one.

    Imagine if we had another 2.15 m in cap space.

    Here’s what I think happened… Holland bought out Sekera thinking he had a tentative deal in place to sign Bretty Connoly with maybe a few backup options in place. Unfortunately, he did not understand the market here or the propensity of agents to use Edmonton as leverage in contract negotiations.

    When Connoly signed with Florida and his other options disappeared, he didn’t want to look like he made a rookie mistake buying out Sekera a year too early for cap space he didn’t need, so he circled back to Chiasson.

    Chiasson in turn was sitting around waiting to get his retroactive back pay for the 22 goals he scored last season. Classic situation of a vet who’s “good in the room” who had a heater last year wanting a retirement contract. That combined with a lack of UFA’s interested in coming here forced the situation.

    Now if Holland hadn’t panicked and signed Chaser, we’d have more flexibility.

  41. Pescador says:

    London Jon: Don’t know if he Haas it in him

    Jaxon: Maybe not, but then again he might score like a Haas on fire.

    nvan97: It will help if he’s Gaetan some power play time.

    This Haas to be the worst pun thread in history

  42. GMB3 says:

    Ryan:
    Not close to good enough. As I wrote this morning for The Athletic, Ken Holland has to get some scoring before training camp. By the way, that isn’t my final lineup, suspect Tyler Benson makes that one.

    Imagine if we had another 2.15 m in cap space.

    Here’s what I think happened… Holland bought out Sekera thinking he had a tentative deal in place to sign Bretty Connoly with maybe a few backup options in place. Unfortunately, he did not understand the market here or the propensity of agents to use Edmonton as leverage in contract negotiations.

    When Connoly signed with Florida and his other options disappeared, he didn’t want to look like he made a rookie mistake buying out Sekera a year too early for cap space he didn’t need, so he circled back to Chiasson.

    Chiasson in turn was sitting around waiting to get his retroactive back pay for the 22 goals he scored last season. Classic situation of a vet who’s “good in the room” who had a heater last year wanting a retirement contract. That combined with a lack of UFA’s interested in coming here forced the situation.

    Now if Holland hadn’t panicked and signed Chaser, we’d have more flexibility.

    Fully agreed. That extra 2 million could go a long way in an acquisition.

  43. alberta bound edmonton says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Happy thought of the day.

    Conner McDavid……Age…….22

    That is all.

    Thank you! Nice!

  44. Pescador says:

    GMB3: If that is enough to get him out of Vegas, I’m all for it, but I don’t think we have the cap space to account for Smiths bonuses and Gusev.

    I thought Smith bonuses can be kicked down the road, y’know so it can cause problems with Nurse’s next contract.
    Besides with the current roster, I’m not the least bit concerned with the potential playoff bonuseses.
    $3.75M x 2 for the Goose

  45. GMB3 says:

    Pescador: I thought Smith bonuses can be kicked down the road, y’know so it can cause problems with Nurse’s next contract.
    Besides with the current roster, I’m not the least bit concerned with the potential playoff bonuseses.
    $3.75M x 2 for the Goose

    I’d be all for it in that case. He seems like the most reasonable bet to be a homerun type of pick up.

  46. Andy Dufresne says:

    I know this was discussed in previous threads and what Im posting here is not from a transcript, but I did type it out (paraphrase style) as I was hearing it a few days ago.

    Not really intended as a discussion point, I just found it enlightening / interesting.

    It was either Gregor or Stauffer that had Connolly’s agent on the show and he was very candid. Surprisingly so! He said that the Oilers were in on Connolly (implying in the 3 x $3.5 range. But he said “ negotiations sometimes get to a point where the team making the offer says, “this is our offer. Take it or leave it” and at that point, the implication is you can no longer “shop” the offer. You either accept the offer or you move on.

    “Our agency believes, I believe, that there is a kind of ethics involved at that point in the negotiation.” “In this case, Florida ( at a point late in the negotiation ) came with an offer of 4 X $3.5, We decided to take the offer” (Implying that at that point he could no longer go back to Holland with the news of the 4 x$3.5m offer to see if Holland wanted to counter)”

    I found the mechanics of this deal to be logical / normal / expected. I found the agent’s candidness / willing to disclose details, surprisingly refreshingly.

  47. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Dare I ask
    Has there been any official or unofficial word on McAwesome rehab in the past 3 weeks?
    Skating or anything??

  48. Reja says:

    Ryan:
    Not close to good enough. As I wrote this morning for The Athletic, Ken Holland has to get some scoring before training camp. By the way, that isn’t my final lineup, suspect Tyler Benson makes that one.

    Imagine if we had another 2.15 m in cap space.

    Here’s what I think happened… Holland bought out Sekera thinking he had a tentative deal in place to sign Bretty Connoly with maybe a few backup options in place. Unfortunately, he did not understand the market here or the propensity of agents to use Edmonton as leverage in contract negotiations.

    When Connoly signed with Florida and his other options disappeared, he didn’t want to look like he made a rookie mistake buying out Sekera a year too early for cap space he didn’t need, so he circled back to Chiasson.

    Chiasson in turn was sitting around waiting to get his retroactive back pay for the 22 goals he scored last season. Classic situation of a vet who’s “good in the room” who had a heater last year wanting a retirement contract. That combined with a lack of UFA’s interested in coming here forced the situation.

    Now if Holland hadn’t panicked and signed Chaser, we’d have more flexibility.

    How many goals does Chase need to score next year to cover his 2.6% cap hit?

  49. GMB3 says:

    Reja: How many goals does Chase need to score next year to cover his 2.6% cap hit?

    The point is that money could have gone to someone who is a more material acquisition. Chiasson doesn’t move the needle. His fancies weren’t great last year, and there’s not much reason to believe he scores more than 12-14 goals next year.

  50. Andy Dufresne says:

    Random thought of the Day:

    For the coming season;

    IMO It should come as no surprise, that Kailer Yamamoto, a small player (age 21 at the start of the 2019 season) drafted 22nd overall plays the second year of his ECL in the AHL.

    BUT on defense, Lagesson, Jones and Bear are all entering the final year of their ELC. We have to get these 3 some NHL ice time. We have to know what they are by years end. We have to provide them at least the opportunity to develop their game at the NHL level. To me that means somewhere between 20 and 40 games each.

  51. Andy Dufresne says:

    I liked this from Ricki

    Sekera stated he believes Lagesson is ready for the NHL.
    Based on data & history.
    Tippett running a 3-2-1 heavy defence suggests we should be able to be a 220-225ga team.
    Especially adding #2 open sh save% goalie Smith.

    253 GF & 220-225ga. +18 – +23 goal diff.

    Which ranks
    17-18 #5 to #8 in WC
    18-19 #5 to #6 in WC

  52. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Andy Dufresne:

    I found the mechanics of this deal to be logical / normal / expected. I found the agent’s candidness / willing to disclose details, surprisingly refreshingly.

    – You’ve never dealt with an agent I’m guessing. The agent used Edmonton to negociate in public to get 4 years. That’s good on agent, and good for Connolly: glad we didn’t sign that

    – Agents only act in their and by association their clients best interest (in that order). Now he’s got another toolbox going forward to be “refreshing” for his next client

  53. Professor Q says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    Dare I ask
    Has there been any official or unofficial word on McAwesome rehab in the past 3 weeks?
    Skating or anything??

    I think there was a picture of him yesterday skating. It was Reddit, however, so take it for what it is.

  54. Andy Dufresne says:

    After LT, JAXON is a top ranked Draft Analyst in my books.

    Enjoyed this comment from him, that surrounds the Oilers 2019 draft for me

    JAXON says:
    July 3, 2019 at 8:40 am

    I wasn’t crazy about Broberg at #8, I had others ahead of him with Broberg at #13 (Kaliyev would have been my pick as well). Though I had Lavoie at #14, so to get my #13, #14, and one of the top-ranked goalies in the draft is a hugely successful draft in my opinion.

  55. Andy Dufresne says:

    LT suggesting that there isword out there that something like a $12.5m offer sheet is rumoured to be coming down for Mitch Marner today.

    LT asks the question; “Is it possible that, at some point, Auston Matthews is the player that Toronto moves on from”??

  56. Andy Dufresne says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – You’ve never dealt with an agent I’m guessing.The agent used Edmonton to negociate in public to get 4 years.That’s good on agent, and good for Connolly: glad we didn’t sign that

    – Agents only act in their and by association their clients best interest (in that order).Now he’s got another toolbox going forward to be “refreshing” for his next client

    I think you missed the point completey. But thats ok.

  57. Pescador says:

    Reja: How many goals does Chase need to score next year to cover his 2.6% cap hit?

    15 but it’s what you get (GF) minus what you give up (GA).
    Besides I believe the point of it is that 2.6% could have been better spent by adding an an additional 1.4% for a more substantial player.
    Now we only have the 1.4% and still need a top 6 winger.

  58. Reja says:

    GMB3: The point is that money could have gone to someone who is a more material acquisition. Chiasson doesn’t move the needle. His fancies weren’t great last year, and there’s not much reason to believe he scores more than 12-14 goals next year.

    Scrub chases signing. Who do you sign on a a 2 year contract and for how much?

  59. Sunnyboy says:

    LT or anyone, is there any updated intel on any youngsters/Condors spending summer in town training with oiler staff, seems like a career opportunity. Bear was reportedly doing this, any others?

  60. GMB3 says:

    Reja: Scrub chases signing. Who do you sign on a a 2 year contract and for how much?

    It’s more that it gives us an opportunity to sign a more material player. Could be a trade for Gusev, then having the money to sign him. Possibly Dzingel, say the price for M.Jo comes down over the course of the summer.. etc. The opportunity to sign a better player.

    We just saw how valuable cap space is with some of the trades made over the course of the summer. Chiasson isn’t the answer. I highly doubt he scores more than 15 goals. He’s no defensive savant either. He can’t really play on the top line, probably should be in the bottom six. That cap space could be essential in a trade or a signing.

  61. GMB3 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Random thought of the Day:

    For the coming season;

    IMO It should come as no surprise, that Kailer Yamamoto, a small player (age 21 at the start of the 2019 season) drafted 22nd overall plays the second year of his ECL in the AHL.

    BUT on defense, Lagesson, Jones and Bear are all entering the final year of their ELC. We have to get these 3 some NHL ice time. We have to know what they are by years end.We have to provide them at least the opportunity to develop their game at the NHL level.To me that means somewhere between 20 and 40 games each.

    I don’t know how we get all three enough games this year, barring some serious injuries. In my head I have Jones pencilled in on the third pairing, but it will be interesting to see how the D pairings shake out with a new coach. Ideally Jones can prove to be ready for a second pairing with Nurse, but that is highly unlikely. I don’t think I’d hate a Russell-Benning third pairing.

    Add in Persson probably needing games too. That further muddies the waters

  62. LadiesloveSmid says:

    I don’t have huge qualms with the Chiasson contract. Just aim higher. The needle has maybe moved 3 degrees in the wrong direction so far this summer.

    Forward depth is putrid, goaltending depth is putrid. D could use some work.

  63. BONE207 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Foot speed aside, Brian Boyles fancies are what we all dream Jujhar Khaira will become sometime soon.

    Boyle at 1 x $2m is actually pretty attractive.

    Career 50% faceoff guy
    60% Dzone40% Ozone
    Slighty negative possession
    Slighty positive goal share
    13 min a night

    Dont know his QoC numbers

    But if hes close to sawing off against top six or even 30% elites then hes a pretty solid option at 3C

    Oh Yeah….scored 18 goals last year (near career high)
    He’s pretty much a 10 goal 20 pt player. With a little luck he pots 15 which is completely acceptable at 3C and 13 minutes a game.

    Exactly…JJ would be a great 3C if he could do the faceoff thing. Imagine how much he would score if he could play 26 minutes a game. 1st line baby…

  64. jtblack says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    I don’t have huge qualms with the Chiasson contract. Just aim higher. The needle has maybe moved 3 degrees in the wrong direction so far this summer.

    Forward depth is putrid, goaltending depth is putrid. D could use some work.

    +1. Quantity of Transactions over quality …. Be nice if Holland can add 1 higher end player prior to camp …

    Again, I do believe he’s keeping powder dry until 2020 / 21 …. this year will be about House Cleaning, Evaluating, Auditions & Prepping for next year

  65. digger50 says:

    GMB3: I don’t know how we get all three enough games this year, barring some serious injuries. In my head I have Jones pencilled in on the third pairing, but it will be interesting to see how the D pairings shake out with a new coach. Ideally Jones can prove to be ready for a second pairing with Nurse, but that is highly unlikely. I don’t think I’d hate a Russell-Benning third pairing.

    Add in Persson probably needing games too. That further muddies the waters

    I completely agree the defensive waters after top 3 players will be complete mud.

    Im not too sure about taking Broberg. Nobody on this blog had him at #8. No discussion. Not one person “how about we take this Broberg guy?” After the draft the narrative changed in regards to how good we did to land him.

    Anyway…. I wonder how this turns out. Making that decision, Broberg is now the absolute favorite prospect of Holland. Holland will also be pushing Bouchard and hes up on the latest Samorukov hype.

    Wonder how this plays out for Bear? Laggesson? Jones? Persson? I have a feeling that this group will be undervalued and moved out mostly because they are at the end of thier ELC, they need to be waived next year, they dont recieve enough NHL games to be evaluated and are deemed in the way and expendable.

    After finally developing some skill, will they be able to manage an excess?

  66. BONE207 says:

    jtblack:
    I agree with you LT. The team has not improved offensively at all ..

    I look at that roster and cringe … Last year the team needed 90% of things to break their way to have a chance … things didn’t and Edm got 78 points ..

    Goaltending?major question mark for me …..

    RHD? Same as it always was …..

    Bottom 6? Same as it always was …..

    in KEN we Trust ….based on his verbal I think he is seriously committed to 2020 / 2021 and the seasons beyond that . This could be a long, frustrating campaign for Edm again ..

    To hell with Old Dutch. He won’t be on the ice. If as you predict comes true, we might have to Blacque Jacque the season & discuss medieval weaponry & whisky. I hope the winter is less harsh than last years…

  67. digger50 says:

    BONE207: To hell with Old Dutch. He won’t be on the ice. If as you predict comes true, we might have to Blacque Jacque the season & discuss medieval weaponry & whisky. I hope the winter is less harsh than last years…

    And if this happens, please just pressbox Connor for the season so he doesn’t get hurt attacking 1 vs 5

  68. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Andy Dufresne: I think you missed the point completey. But thats ok.

    – I think you thought that the agent was being bona-fide, and a good guy by sharing information

    – I know that he was using a platform to get a better deal for his client

  69. bwar says:

    Bring Vanek back to Alberta! I know he still has friends here from when he played here as a teenager. Not sure his family would be onboard with coming to Edmonton though so could be a tough sell, especially if the money isn’t great.

  70. BONE207 says:

    <a href="#comment-850765"
    I suspect the Benson is competing with Jurco for a top 6 wing spot

    I hope the Benson is half as entertaining as THE ZLATAN.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tllFT4Ikfvg

  71. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Caribbeerman: my ultimate hope would be a 3 way with Calgary & Vancouver

    I know the old saying “know thine enemy” but that seems a bit extreme.

  72. jeetz says:

    Getting a 4th to play in the top 6 is a must.

    McD + Drai
    RNH + ??

    We have a slew of bottom 6 players…

    Lucic, Gagner, Kassian, Khaira, Haas,, Cave, Jurco, Brodziak, Granlund, Nygard, Chaisson

    plus Gambardella, Marody and Russell could make the cut

    We may end up signing Maroon and/or Boyle.

    If we get that elusive 4th top 6 to play with RNH, 2 players from this list of players will play in the top six (Kassian with McD and Drai plus 1 othe to play with RNH).

    That leaves potentially 14 players to compete for the bottom 6 plus the 13th forward.

    To me that means can (SHOULD) trade both Gagner and Russell (Def) any way we can to free up as much cap space as possible to get RNH a legitimate 25 goal scorer linemate.

    Neither Bennett nor M Perreault (rumoured for Russell) fit that criteria. Ehlers does though

    WE WILL HAVE A GOOD SEASON

  73. Jaxon says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    After LT, JAXON is a top ranked Draft Analyst in my books.

    Enjoyed this comment from him, that surrounds the Oilers 2019 draft for me

    JAXON says:
    July 3, 2019 at 8:40 am

    I wasn’t crazy about Broberg at #8, I had others ahead of him with Broberg at #13 (Kaliyev would have been my pick as well). Though I had Lavoie at #14, so to get my #13, #14, and one of the top-ranked goalies in the draft is a hugely successful draft in my opinion.

    Thanks. That praise is way too high for a desktop number cruncher like me. I don’t analyze much video (mostly only for divisive players or when a player’s numbers don’t match their rank), but I do have some faith in the numbers mixed with scouting reports that don’t have major red flags like skating. I am a disciple of Lowetide’s methods (scoring), as well as draft analysts like Blue Bullet, and Jeremy Davis. I think my Projected 5v5 Primary Points adjusted for age and league is somewhat unique, although I think Blue Bullet and Jeremy Davis have done something similar (but different) in more detail and with a better statistical background (which I have none). I like lists that grade attributes like skating, IQ, puck skills, compete, physicality, etc. (Corey Pronman, Grant McCagg) so I can convert that to some sort of mathematic formula as well and get back to the comfort of numbers. Anyhow, thanks again. It’s probably enough praise to inspire me to do it again next year, even though the time suck is ridiculous, haha.

  74. Bruce McCurdy says:

    frjohnk: -Our 3 best players ( McDavid, Drai and RNH) all had career years
    -2 other forwards, Chiasson and Kassian had their best years.

    All five had career high in goals:

    Leon 50 (29)
    McDavid 41 (41)
    RNH 28 (24)
    Chiasson 22 (13)
    Kassian 15 (14)
    —–
    Total 156 (combined previous career highs 121)

    Entire rest of team including D = 73

    If you want to include Nurse’s 10 (previous career high 6) that’s all of Edmonton’s double-digit goal scorers from last season. Next on the list is Drake Caggiula’s 7 in just 29 GP before Chiarelli traded him for Manning.

    So the formula is a handful of guys reaching the next level, and everybody else boning the dog. Obviously that needs to level out a bit next year. Thank goodness Oilers added 12-goal man Markus Granlund, eh. 😐

  75. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following post:

    I will not be surprised if the opening lineup has Lagesson instead of Jones on the third pairing. Lagesson is the better defender and actually makes it difficult for opposition forwards. If Jones is the third pairing left D so much for cutting into the goals against.

    _____________________

    I am confident that Lagesson would be able to handle 3rd pairing minutes – it would be great if he was given a partner like Sekera but that doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

    I suspect you are right but the sexier skater/puck-mover in Jones will likely break camp with the team and Willie will follow when an injury hits.

  76. GMB3 says:

    digger50: I completely agree the defensive waters after top 3 players will be complete mud.

    Im not too sure about taking Broberg. Nobody on this blog had him at #8. No discussion. Not one person “how about we take this Broberg guy?” After the draft the narrative changed in regards to how good we did to land him.

    Anyway…. I wonder how this turns out. Making that decision, Broberg is now the absolute favorite prospect of Holland. Holland will also be pushing Bouchard and hes up on the latest Samorukov hype.

    Wonder how this plays out for Bear? Laggesson? Jones? Persson? I have a feeling that this group will be undervalued and moved out mostly because they are at the end of thier ELC, they need to be waived next year, they dont recieve enough NHL games to be evaluated and are deemed in the way and expendable.

    After finally developing some skill, will they be able to manage an excess?

    Yep. None of Lagesson, Jones, or Bear have the pedigree to be worth much in a trade either. We could potentially be shipping off another Gustafsson who never got the opportunity here (hilarious because of how bad our D has been).

  77. BONE207 says:

    Hey Bulging Twine…what’s the word on Dzingel??? 15 minutes have elapsed…

  78. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Given that this year is another development and evaluation year, I would like to see Russell moved for cap space or best return possible.

    This will give the team the possibility to adequately roll through the plethora of D prospects /fringe.

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Nurse-Jones/Persson/Benning
    For third pairing Variations of Jones Persson Benning Lagesson Bear and Bouchard through the year

    The argument from Holly was that Sekera was blocking evaluation of new crop. Same arguement holds for Rusty.

    Recall that if all shit the bed (impossible) there is still Manning and Lowe if absolutely rewlquired for a few games on 3rd pairing.

    I would much rather the team settle for this reality and push/test the limit of the new D crop to determine their potential before having to waive some of them and watch them play elsewhere in the nhl for the following 6-7 years. Plus if most show some success at nhl level this will increase trade value substantially.

  79. Reja says:

    GMB3: Yep. None of Lagesson, Jones, or Bear have the pedigree to be worth much in a trade either. We could potentially be shipping off another Gustafsson who never got the opportunity here (hilarious because of how bad our D has been).

    I know the Condors had great team chemistry last year but these players especially Lagesson should have been test driven at the end of the year plus a bonus paycheque for summer fun. We could potentially lose Lagesson without him ever playing a game for us. Maybe that’s a reason why they bought out Sekera but then again it’s the bad water Oilers we’re talking about and the Sekera buyout like a earlier poster eluded to was on a Connolly swing and miss and shortly after chase is signed.

  80. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Reja: Ithe Sekera buyout like a earlier poster eluded to was on a Connolly swing and miss and shortly after chase is signed.

    – Yeah, there was a swing and miss. Chiasson wasn’t even mentioned at all by anyone ever as being a target with the Oil. Once they didn’t sign anyone, they signed him to cover their asses, look like they did something. He wasn’t getting signed early by anyone else. Overpaid too: 1.8 x 2 max, which is a triple. He’s like Maroon: everyone knows why he scored goals here…

  81. PennersPancakes says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    More I think about it the more I like it. Russell might even get an equally overpaid center to make another signing redundant. I think everyone is right that Lagesson/Bear/Jones dont have much value to other teams atm so even if they dont play great they cant lower their value too much.

    I am most excited by Joel Persson and find it interesting he doesnt get mentioned much. He put up near identical stats last season even after the departure of wonder boy calder winner Pettersson.

    17-18: 51GP – 6G – 28A – 34P
    18-19: 50GP – 6G – 25A – 31P

    The scouting reports suggest he has the offensive skills to play in the NHL but still question marks about defensive coverage and size. Not that theyre bad but arent currently standout in the SHL so question marks if theyll make the cut in the NHL. I think ideally AHL is the spot for him to start with a perfect roster to get used to the smaller ice but hes 25 and been playing against men for some time.

    Curious what everyone elses thoughts are, could he run a sheltered 3RD PP specialist role?

  82. PennersPancakes says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    100% agree with this. Might not be the classic Holland move by looking at the stereotypical Detroit memes but its a new day and a new man.

  83. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    PennersPancakes:
    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    Curious what everyone elses thoughts are, could he run a sheltered 3RD PP specialist role?

    – Here is the list of 25 year old+ D that have never played in the the NHL before, that moved directly from Europe and played impactful NHL D minutes immediately, in the history of the NHL:

  84. Ryan says:

    GMB3: Yep. None of Lagesson, Jones, or Bear have the pedigree to be worth much in a trade either. We could potentially be shipping off another Gustafsson who never got the opportunity here (hilarious because of how bad our D has been).

    Agreed. That’s the problem with so many D that are close to being NHL ready especially given the lack of pedigree.

    None will have much of any trade value until they’re developed and playing in the NHL.

    Then the ones with more marginal career trajectories are still hard to get a return on and usually just eventually part ways (Brad Oesterle, Brad Hunt).

  85. jtblack says:

    EDMONTON plays 40 Games from season opener until X MAS ….

    So we should have our answer on this team before SAINT NIC ARRIVES.

  86. BONE207 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Yeah, there was a swing and miss.Chiasson wasn’t even mentioned at all by anyone ever as being a target with the Oil.Once they didn’t sign anyone, they signed him to cover their asses, look like they did something.He wasn’t getting signed early by anyone else.Overpaid too: 1.8 x 2 max, which is a triple.He’s like Maroon: everyone knows why he scored goals here…

    My thoughts on Chiasson was that he come back after a summer of improving his speed. If he does that, he may be a “good in the room” guy who would then also be a more impactful player on the top lines. Having an SC ring helps too for potential playoff (?) experience. Only then would you offer him a contract at 1.5 to 2 million. Hopefully he is doing exactly that.

  87. Ryan says:

    GMB3: It’s more that it gives us an opportunity to sign a more material player. Could be a trade for Gusev, then having the money to sign him. Possibly Dzingel, say the price for M.Jo comes down over the course of the summer.. etc. The opportunity to sign a better player.

    We just saw how valuable cap space is with some of the trades made over the course of the summer. Chiasson isn’t the answer. I highly doubt he scores more than 15 goals. He’s no defensive savant either. He can’t really play on the top line, probably should be in the bottom six. That cap space could be essential in a trade or a signing.

    Agreed.

    Holland may have underestimated the value of cap space this summer. There’s a fire sale on assets from teams that are tight to the cap and want to divest useful players with no money coming back.

    Chiasson is a bottom sixer who doesn’t really kill penalties. He averaged 36 seconds per game last year.

    His 5v5 offense is in the 4rth liner level despite playing most of his minutes with Draisatl.

    Sort of like Letestu in some respects who had that heater on the PP1 unit one season then wasn’t the answer the next.

    There’s a chance that Chiasson could be a buyout candidate in a year if the stick goes cold or if he loses half a step.

    We have enough dead cap that we didn’t need to potentially add another bad contract.

  88. SwedishPoster says:

    Broberg’s SHL team has confirmed that he is indeed staying in Sweden. Good news imo. Strong org and good opportunity to get ice time without it being handed to him.

  89. BONE207 says:

    PennersPancakes:
    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    More I think about it the more I like it. Russell might even get an equally overpaid center to make another signing redundant. I think everyone is right that Lagesson/Bear/Jones dont have much value to other teams atm so even if they dont play great they cant lower their value too much.

    I am most excited by Joel Persson and find it interesting he doesnt get mentioned much. He put up near identical stats last season even after the departure of wonder boy calder winner Pettersson.

    17-18: 51GP – 6G – 28A – 34P
    18-19:50GP – 6G – 25A – 31P

    The scouting reports suggest he has the offensive skills to play in the NHL but still question marks about defensive coverage and size. Not that theyre bad but arent currently standout in the SHL so question marks if theyll make the cut in the NHL. I think ideally AHL is the spot for him to start with a perfect roster to get used to the smaller ice but hes 25 and been playing against men for some time.

    Curious what everyone elses thoughts are, could he run a sheltered 3RD PP specialist role?

    This upcoming season, I say try them all. Have them here in town for development camps or in Bake, to assess them & give them some time to get used to the ice size, culture in the city & give incentive to train for what I think is some incredible opportunities based on the make up of the big club.

    Weak defence & poor line up strength offer so much for these kids. I hope they all get at least 10 games & pushed to show what they have to offer. Maybe then we can get rid of our seashell & starfish collection.

  90. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    jtblack:
    EDMONTON plays 40 Games from season opener until X MAS ….

    So we should have our answer on this team before SAINT NIC ARRIVES.

    Hopefully they have zero games from X-mas til Valentine’s Day cause that is the time they usually suck the most

  91. who says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    Given that this year is another development and evaluation year, I would like to see Russell moved for cap space or best return possible.

    This will give the team the possibility to adequately roll through the plethora of D prospects /fringe.

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Nurse-Jones/Persson/Benning
    For third pairing Variations of Jones Persson Benning Lagesson Bear and Bouchard through the year

    The argument from Holly was that Sekera was blocking evaluation of new crop. Same arguement holds for Rusty.

    Recall that if all shit the bed (impossible) there is still Manning and Lowe if absolutely rewlquired for a few games on 3rd pairing.

    I would much rather the team settle for this reality and push/test the limit of the newD crop to determine their potential before having to waive some of them and watch them play elsewhere in the nhl for the following 6-7 years. Plus if most show some success at nhl level this will increase trade value substantially.

    I don’t think Russell is moveable. If he was, I don’t think Holland buys out Sekera.
    The only dman that it makes sense to trade is Benning. I’ve been saying this for months, but no one is listening.

  92. BONE207 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Here is the list of 25 year old+D that have never played in the the NHL before, that moved directly from Europe and played impactful NHL D minutes immediately,in the history of the NHL:

    Well that was informative…lol

  93. flyfish1168 says:

    jtblack:
    EDMONTON plays 40 Games from season opener until X MAS ….

    So we should have our answer on this team before SAINT NIC ARRIVES.

    LOL. StL won the cup and they were in last place. Probably never happen again.

    There are stats that show if a team makes the PO by American Thanksgiving.

  94. jtblack says:

    BONE207: Well that was informative…lol

    BRIAN RAFALSKI

  95. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Here is the list of 25 year old+D that have never played in the the NHL before, that moved directly from Europe and played impactful NHL D minutes immediately,in the history of the NHL:

    Marek Zidlicky says hi. Arrived in the NHL aged 26 and scored 53 points his rookie season. That was his career high though he later had five more seasons of 40+ points, ultimately scoring 417 points in 836 career games.

  96. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – So far here are the non-elite things that Holland has done:

    1) Reached for ‘Brah, and told everyone I’m getting Brah: not sure which is more non-elite
    2) Reached for the G in the 3rd instead of getting more skill/speed lotto picks
    3) Rushed to sign Chiasson and overpaid him
    4) Bought out Sek to pay for Chiasson it appears
    5) Reached for Smith, and overpaid him IMO
    6) Has not brought anyone in to augment management (or analytics)

    – So far here are the things that I like since Holland arrived:

    1) Lavoie in 2nd round
    2) MacT, Suter gone
    3) Hasnt make any throwing chairs, kicking ass taking names moves
    4) Kept Jay in AHL
    5) Tippett: ok, but 3 years I can live with
    6) Jurco, Hass, Nygard, Granlund etc: seems like good small ball bets
    7) Didn’t get one of the USHL all-stars with the 1st pick
    8) Hasn’t panicked with Pool

  97. Bruce McCurdy says:

    jtblack: BRIAN RAFALSKI

    An even better example. Rafalski came back from Finland age 26 & scored 32 points as a rookie. That turned out to be a career LOW as he exceeded 50 points four times & 40 points five other times. Obviously an exceptional career in both senses of the word, but it’s possible.

    Closest the Oilers had was Jan Hejda who was 28 when he arrived. Alas, he came to Edmonton who didn’t know WTF they were doing, played him in just 39 games his first year (ATOi 20:23 though!) and only after he moved on the next summer did he become an impactful shutdown in Columbus & Colorado for the next 8 years. Played 627 career games, averaged >21 minutes per.

  98. PennersPancakes says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Here is the list of 25 year old+D that have never played in the the NHL before, that moved directly from Europe and played impactful NHL D minutes immediately,in the history of the NHL:

    Odds are against him but its rare not impossible. Between the different level of competition overseas and having only 2 seasons of legitimate professional hockey to his name I wouldnt write him off.

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following post from CapeBreton:

    Goaltending was a huge part of the problem last year.If you ignore the heater from Koskinen, it was probably the worst in the league.Not sure if Smith is the guy, but he really can’t be any worse than what we had.That is how the gap gets closed.I don’t see them scoring more than last year unless they can add a scoring forward.I’d settle for Neal if Looch goes out the door.For what it’s worth, Neal broke into the league under Tippet.
    ___________________

    I absolutely agree with this from a high level – goaltending was bad last year, both Koskinen and Talbot were simply not good enough.

    Of course, at the same time, a goaltender’s “performance” will be altered given team performance – quality of shots, amount of time spent in the zone, playing with the lead vs. trailing, etc., etc. While I am 100% not letting either goalie off the hook, they were part of the problem, the team was also part of the problem and here is hoping that more depth in the bottom 6, different coaching and systems, better puck transition, etc. happen because, if they do, the tending will be better as well.

    These are just hopes right now but, as per my first post in this thread, I’m hoping.

  100. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    – The exception that makes the rule… Expecting anything from a 25 year old Euro D to come in and make a difference. Are you making the call that he’s the next Zidlicky: good luck with that call

    – That 2003 Nashville Team that he was on: they made the playoffs for the first time, beat out this team from Edmonton by 2 points.

    – Rafalski: he was an american, played college for 4 years then went to Europe: that was some good scouting. However I could have been an effective D with the Devils behind Niedmeyer, Stevens, Daneyko, Souray, Odelin and Brodeur in net at that time

  101. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    PennersPancakes,

    – You guys and this are case in point why fans get so upset in Oiltown. Same yesterday with Jultz. Your expectations are just out of whack, then you get ticked when they aren’t met.

    – Defending Jultz as Norris, or that Persson is going to be the guy who makes an impact on D

  102. godot10 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Here is the list of 25 year old+D that have never played in the the NHL before, that moved directly from Europe and played impactful NHL D minutes immediately,in the history of the NHL:

    Mark Streit
    Jan Hejda
    Brian Rafalski
    Viacheslave Fetisov
    Sami Salo (24)
    Vladimir Konstantinov (24)
    Stefan Persson (24)
    Thommie Bergmann

  103. godot10 says:

    who: I don’t think Russell is moveable. If he was, I don’t think Holland buys out Sekera.
    The only dman that it makes sense to trade is Benning. I’ve been saying this for months, but no one is listening.

    Matt Benning (modulo stuff) for JT MIller? Anyone?

  104. godot10 says:

    flyfish1168: LOL. StL won the cup and they were in last place. Probably never happen again.

    There are stats that show if a team makes the PO by American Thanksgiving.

    Don’t tell Hitchcock that freeing Alex Pieterangelo from the toughest opposition turned him into a difference maker! -).

    Armstrong and Hitchcock made the fatal mistake of not trading Shattenkirk for a defensive stud much earlier. And the trade of Johnson for Shattenkirk likely cost St. Louis a couple of cups.

  105. JimmyV1965 says:

    I will consider it a very successful season if Holland brings in just one good player; a top 6 forward, top 4 dman or a starting goalie. The latter two are pretty well out of the question, but there’s still lots of time to acquire a top 6 forward. I hope we make the playoffs, but that would likely require some good luck. A simple, incremental improvement would make me happy. We wait.

  106. defmn says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – So far here are the non-elite things that Holland has done:

    1) Reached for ‘Brah, and told everyone I’m getting Brah: not sure which is more non-elite
    2) Reached for the G in the 3rd instead of getting more skill/speed lotto picks
    3) Rushed to sign Chiasson and overpaid him
    4) Bought out Sek to pay for Chiasson it appears
    5) Reached for Smith, and overpaid him IMO
    6) Has not brought anyone in to augment management (or analytics)

    – So far here are the things that I like since Holland arrived:

    1) Lavoie in 2nd round
    2) MacT, Suter gone
    3) Hasnt make any throwing chairs, kicking ass taking names moves
    4) Kept Jay in AHL
    5) Tippett: ok, but 3 years I can live with
    6) Jurco, Hass, Nygard, Granlund etc: seems like good small ball bets
    7) Didn’t get one of the USHL all-stars with the 1st pick
    8) Hasn’t panicked with Pool

    I’m not sure that #7 in your second list doesn’t contradict #1 in your first list.

    Broberg was a reach on many lists but in the range on others. Yzerman, who is generally praised as a smart GM, went further off the board. Since Holland was working with him I have to believe there were a lot of conversations about both of these two dmen.

    I agree the leak was not pretty. Somebody needs to lose their job.

    #2 in your first list isn’t really a reach imo. Third round is pretty standard goalie drafting territory.

    The idea that Sekera’s buyout is linked to Chaisson’s signing is an example of mind reading. There is no causal link other than speculation.

    Where I do agree with you is on the Smith signing. I think he moved too quickly. I would have preferred Mrazek simply because I wanted more than a one year contract for that position.

    I like your second list better than your first. My biggest disappointment so far is that there hasn’t been a move that is a clear win. I think we would all be happier if there was even one guy signed this summer that looked like he plugged a hole for at least a couple of years. Lots of small bets that could pay off but no clear win.

  107. Cahoon says:

    Reja,

    If league average for goals is 244 and he is 2.6% of cap hit, then goals by cap hit would put him at 6 to be league average. Say double production since he is a forward, then 12. Does 15 goals make him a value contract then?

  108. London Jon says:

    Pescador: This Haas to be the worst pun thread in history

    I agree, it’s just Gaetan ridiculous now…

  109. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    godot10: Mark Streit
    Jan Hejda
    Brian Rafalski
    Viacheslave Fetisov
    Sami Salo (24)
    Vladimir Konstantinov (24)
    Stefan Persson (24)
    Thommie Bergmann

    – No wonder you get upset! Fetisov: lol! Rafalski was american, went to stacked team, hejda: lol!, then sucked elsewhere. Had to look up Bergmann: lol!

    – It’s possible that Persson defies the odds, and conventional wisdom, and earns a spot on the Oilers and is effective. Everything is possible.

    – This has been fun exercise for me to witness: thanks. The “belief” in things is so distorted by some

    – I concede: Jultz had Norris potential, Persson is a good bet to make an impact next year: now I can be super-angry going forward becasue I have belief: have a great weekend!

    – HE STAY

  110. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Bruce McCurdy,

    – The exception that makes the rule…Expecting anything from a 25 year old Euro D to come in and make a difference.Are you making the call that he’s the next Zidlicky: good luck with that call

    – That 2003 Nashville Team that he was on: they made the playoffs for the first time, beat out this team from Edmonton by 2 points.

    – Rafalski: he was an american, played college for 4 years then went to Europe: that was some good scouting.However I could have been an effective D with the Devils behind Niedmeyer, Stevens, Daneyko, Souray, Odelin and Brodeur in net at that time

    Who said anything about “expecting”? What I saw was a comment from you suggesting that effectively there is zero chance. That is not true, & two exceptions were pointed out.

    I expect nothing from Joel Persson, but I’m sure prepared to give him a chance. Maybe you are too, but it sure wasn’t apparent from your snarky comment(s).

  111. Munny says:

    godot10:
    Offer sheet Sam Bennett before he files for arbitration today Ken.2nd round compensation level.2-years $3 million something.

    Make problems for the Flames.

    I would say to them, trade us Neal for Lucic, OR we will be offer sheeting Bennett.

  112. Munny says:

    Andy Dufresne: Anyone understand what the possibilities are for Ilya Konovalov to leave the KHL before his 2 year contract has expired?
    How does that typically work? If he wants out of his KHL contract, how does he do that?

    There is no transfer agreement with the KHL, so you have to purchase the player from the team, much in the same way as EuroFootie.

    There is no requirement for them to sell and they can pretty much ask for whatever they want.

    That’s my understanding.

  113. Rebillled says:

    It’s a pretty strange world when Edmonton and Calgary both buy each others starting goalies from last year to play back-up. This is the story that will define this year. That and how well the captain plays after getting cheaply wiped out by someone horrible.

    That Koskinen contract reminds of the time i was handcuffed to a radiator with Lucic on the Titanic.

    Lehner is 5 mill Jesus

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    We should expect lower scoring seasons from Draisaitl, RNH, and Chiasson. Probably Nurse as well.

    I don’t know outside of Benson/Yamamoto/Puljujarvi that anyone else has the potential to pop offensively. 2 of those bets failed last season.

    There’s good reason to believe the group as it stands now, will perform worse than last season’s roster.

    I agree with Chiasson and Drai.

    Back to back 50g seasons for Drai seems aggressive and, well, we know what Chiasson is.

    I think Nuge can repeat what he produced offensively last year and, frankly, Nurse has been scoring at high end rates a 5 on 5 for almost 3 seasons now – the increase last year was PP time.

    I would expect Klefbom to produce more, the bottom pairing of the D to produce more (if a guy like Jones, Persson, etc. are on it).

    Line combinations will be important but, if Kassian stays as 1RW and is a contributor (not just being zoomed) like he has for the last 6-8 weeks, he could score 20. Khaira will produce more if healthy.

    Benson/Ganger in the middle 6 – who knows?

    Won’t be tough to score more than the bottom 6 of Rieder, Brodziak, Cave, Currie, Joe G., Lucic, etc., etc.

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following from Pescador:

    I like Bennett, but I would rather spend the few remaining cap dollars on Gusev,
    Trade proposal is Puljujarvi and 2020 3rd round pick

    ____________________

    Salary wise, that would work for Vegas but, from accounts, there is a ton of interest in this player and, although Vegas shouldn’t have any leverage, the demand for the player gives them some and I think they could do better, unfortunately.

  116. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Who said anything about “expecting”? What I saw was a comment from you suggesting that effectively there is zero chance. That is not true, & two exceptions were pointed out.

    I expect nothing from Joel Persson, but I’m sure prepared to give him a chance. Maybe you are too, but it sure wasn’t apparent from your snarky comment.

    – The original query was what do we expect from Persson?

    – I couldn’t think of a player with same scenario making it. Props for finding the one: good call

    – But its a reach big time to suggest that by finding the one to “prove” me wrong, and allocate therefore expectations is reasonable. Your understanding of “giving him a chance” and one example (Rafalski was american, played in US, had North American experience, and went to all-star D corp), doesn’t bolster your case

    – But I get it, you took it as snarky. Your willing to hope that he makes it. Good on you. Your not wrong. He has a chance. You can hope for the best. You’ve found the one guy who defied the odds, and pin your hopes that this is the second: hey it could happen. I don’t think it is at all reasonable to expect him to be an effective player, based on all the handicaps and hindrance and precedents that a European (especially one who doesn’t play in international tourneys) faces coming over at 25

    – But I get it: you thought I was snarky, you took a shot. Nice work

    – But what I do like is that between Persson, Jones, Lagesson, Bear we should be able to find one #6 D that isn’t going to be awful: that’s a more nuanced, mature belief on “hoping for a D to come in”

  117. flyfish1168 says:

    Munny: I would say to them, trade us Neal for Lucic, OR we will be offer sheeting Bennett.

    I threaten them and after the trade do it anyway. 😉

  118. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following from GMB:

    If that is enough to get him out of Vegas, I’m all for it, but I don’t think we have the cap space to account for Smiths bonuses and Gusev.

    ____________________

    If there is a reasonable deal out there for Gusev (both acquisition cost and contract), I wouldn’t worry about Smith’s bonuses causing a cap penalty for next season.

    If he vests any of his playoff bonuses, well worth it. If he vests his games played bonuses, as a result of performance (as opposed to Koskinen fail/injury), if is what it is. Shit, no matter what, the potential of the bonuses vesting should not stand in the way of a possible top 6 steal.

  119. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Jaxon,

    Please do. I — like many others — find your posts informative and well presented.

  120. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    who: I don’t think Russell is moveable. If he was, I don’t think Holland buys out Sekera.
    The only dman that it makes sense to trade is Benning. I’ve been saying this for months, but no one is listening.

    Could be. His value may go up as the summer moves on. if he is till here then put him in the rotation with the new crop prospects

  121. OriginalPouzar says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    Dare I ask
    Has there been any official or unofficial word on McAwesome rehab in the past 3 weeks?
    Skating or anything??

    There were pictures of him skating yesterday actually.

    https://twitter.com/Oilersnationalt/status/1146955275280084992

  122. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Professor Q: I think there was a picture of him yesterday skating. It was Reddit, however, so take it for what it is.

    Thanks!

  123. McSorley33 says:

    jtblack,

    EDMONTON plays 40 Games from season opener until X MAS ….

    So we should have our answer on this team before SAINT NIC ARRIVES.
    ************************************************************************************
    We usually do…..anything post Halloween is usually bonus time for us.

  124. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following from Andy Dufresne:

    BUT on defense, Lagesson, Jones and Bear are all entering the final year of their ELC. We have to get these 3 some NHL ice time. We have to know what they are by years end.We have to provide them at least the opportunity to develop their game at the NHL level.To me that means somewhere between 20 and 40 games each.

    ___________

    Its not just their ELC’s coming due its the fact that all three lose their waiver exemptions after this year.

    I’m confident that both Jones and Lagesson will play many NHL games this year – Jones is likely to break camp with the team and Willie, well, he’ll be called up when the first injury hits.

    Bear, unless he’s improved his skating, his ability to puck retrieve and his ability to win the odd defensive zone battle, is a tier below, in my opinion. That shot is a weapon though.

  125. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sunnyboy:
    LT or anyone, is there any updated intel on any youngsters/Condors spending summer in town training with oiler staff, seems like a career opportunity.Bear was reportedly doing this, any others?

    I saw social media posts from both Benson and Maksimov from the Khalid concert in Edmonton the other day. Clearly this is as unofficial as it gets but I don’t see why either would be in Edmonton if they aren’t training with the team or similar….

  126. McSorley33 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    So far here are the non-elite things that Holland has done:

    1) Reached for ‘Brah, and told everyone I’m getting Brah: not sure which is more non-elite
    2) Reached for the G in the 3rd instead of getting more skill/speed lotto picks
    3) Rushed to sign Chiasson and overpaid him
    4) Bought out Sek to pay for Chiasson it appears
    5) Reached for Smith, and overpaid him IMO
    6) Has not brought anyone in to augment management (or analytics
    ***************************************************************************
    Good post.

    Now that PC is gone you are starting to find the range again.

  127. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following post from Digger:

    I completely agree the defensive waters after top 3 players will be complete mud.

    Im not too sure about taking Broberg. Nobody on this blog had him at #8. No discussion. Not one person “how about we take this Broberg guy?” After the draft the narrative changed in regards to how good we did to land him.

    Anyway…. I wonder how this turns out. Making that decision, Broberg is now the absolute favorite prospect of Holland. Holland will also be pushing Bouchard and hes up on the latest Samorukov hype.

    Wonder how this plays out for Bear? Laggesson? Jones? Persson? I have a feeling that this group will be undervalued and moved out mostly because they are at the end of thier ELC, they need to be waived next year, they dont recieve enough NHL games to be evaluated and are deemed in the way and expendable.

    After finally developing some skill, will they be able to manage an excess?

    _________________

    I understand your point but the pick of Broberg and a push on Bouchard and Samorukov should have zero effect on this season – Broberg is a non-option and Samorukov essentially the same. Bouchard could play NHL games this year but I believe that Jones/Lagesson are ahead on the depth chart and will get their minutes this season. Bear shouldn’t be used in the same breath as Bear/Lagesson

  128. Pechetr says:

    GMB3: It’s more that it gives us an opportunity to sign a more material player. Could be a trade for Gusev, then having the money to sign him. Possibly Dzingel, say the price for M.Jo comes down over the course of the summer.. etc. The opportunity to sign a better player.

    We just saw how valuable cap space is with some of the trades made over the course of the summer. Chiasson isn’t the answer. I highly doubt he scores more than 15 goals. He’s no defensive savant either. He can’t really play on the top line, probably should be in the bottom six. That cap space could be essential in a trade or a signing.

    How much is it worth to keep Connor and Leon happy? Not sure if you heard Chiasson’s interview but he said that he was looking to be more of a mentor to Connor this year and take some of the load off of him inside the room. He also said that it was because of the guys in the room that he was likely signed for what he was.

  129. BONE207 says:

    Bruce McCurdy: An even better example. Rafalski came back from Finland age 26 & scored 32 points as a rookie. That turned out to be a career LOW as he exceeded 50 points four times & 40 points five other times. Obviously an exceptional career in both senses of the word, but it’s possible.

    Closest the Oilers had was Jan Hejda who was 28 when he arrived. Alas, he came to Edmonton who didn’t know WTF they were doing, played him in just 39 games his first year (ATOi 20:23 though!) and only after he moved on the next summer did he become an impactful shutdown in Columbus & Colorado for the next 8 years. Played 627 career games, averaged >21 minutes per.

    Bruce…the knowledge spewing from your cranium today is truly astounding.

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following post from Kinger:

    – Yeah, there was a swing and miss.Chiasson wasn’t even mentioned at all by anyone ever as being a target with the Oil.Once they didn’t sign anyone, they signed him to cover their asses, look like they did something.He wasn’t getting signed earlyby anyone else.Overpaid too: 1.8 x 2 max, which is a triple.He’s like Maroon: everyone knows why he scored goals here…

    ________________________

    He scored his 5 on 5 goals with Drai (and Rieder) not McDavid.

  131. JimmyV1965 says:

    London Jon: I agree, it’s just Gaetan ridiculous now…

    That’s actually a pretty good pun.

  132. Rube Foster says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    After LT, JAXON is a top ranked Draft Analyst in my books.

    Enjoyed this comment from him, that surrounds the Oilers 2019 draft for me

    JAXON says:
    July 3, 2019 at 8:40 am

    I wasn’t crazy about Broberg at #8, I had others ahead of him with Broberg at #13 (Kaliyev would have been my pick as well). Though I had Lavoie at #14, so to get my #13, #14, and one of the top-ranked goalies in the draft is a hugely successful draft in my opinion.

    If I’m not mistaken, JAXON was the first in these parts to ID Lavoie as a hard target.

    As I recall JAXON was touting Lavoie as a target about halfway through Lavoie’s historic goal scoring run during the playoffs. Nice work Bud!

  133. OriginalPouzar says:

    PennersPancakes:
    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    More I think about it the more I like it. Russell might even get an equally overpaid center to make another signing redundant. I think everyone is right that Lagesson/Bear/Jones dont have much value to other teams atm so even if they dont play great they cant lower their value too much.

    I am most excited by Joel Persson and find it interesting he doesnt get mentioned much. He put up near identical stats last season even after the departure of wonder boy calder winner Pettersson.

    17-18: 51GP – 6G – 28A – 34P
    18-19:50GP – 6G – 25A – 31P

    The scouting reports suggest he has the offensive skills to play in the NHL but still question marks about defensive coverage and size. Not that theyre bad but arent currently standout in the SHL so question marks if theyll make the cut in the NHL. I think ideally AHL is the spot for him to start with a perfect roster to get used to the smaller ice but hes 25 and been playing against men for some time.

    Curious what everyone elses thoughts are, could he run a sheltered 3RD PP specialist role?

    Persson is definitely in the running to be the 6th d-man but its really tough to project him or posit how he would do without any experience over in North America. Yes, his numbers look great, two years running, both with Vaxjo being a huge powerhouse and with them being very average. With that said, we’ve seen countless examples of players the tear up the European leagues and simply aren’t able to translate that in to NHL success. Some can, many can’t.

    I would think he’s battling with Jones for the 6/7D spot and, frankly, I think they both may start with the team and the team may carry 8D

    I think the suggested role for Persson would be as you posit, 3RD with PP time.

    I am very hopeful he is real found money and he very well may be. He also may not be an NHL player.

    Can’t wait to see him and find out.

  134. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Here is the list of 25 year old+D that have never played in the the NHL before, that moved directly from Europe and played impactful NHL D minutes immediately,in the history of the NHL:

    Slava Fetisov says hi.

    Also, I don’t believe “could he run a sheltered 3RD PP specialist role” means what you think it does. ◴_◶

  135. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – The original query was what do we expect from Persson?

    The original query was:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: Curious what everyone elses thoughts are, could he run a sheltered 3RD PP specialist role?

    …& it was you started using words like “impactful” & “expectations” & “came directly from Europe” (= Brian Rafalski) & suggesting there were zero such players ever. Several were subsequently suggested by me & others.

    Anyway it’s clear we’re not going to agree on this, words are words and we all interpret them differently, it seems.

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – But what I do like is that between Persson, Jones, Lagesson, Bear we should be able to find one #6 D that isn’t going to be awful: that’s a more nuanced, mature belief on “hoping for a D to come in”

    On this significant point we are in 100% agreement. The team has turned over a few rocks to find players from different sources, maybe one of them turns out. Or maybe one of the later rounds picks turns out. All I know for sure is it’s high time the Oilers started to identify and develop useful players beyond top ten overall draft picks. If they’re searching high & low that is a good sign, even as each individual bet likely has low odds.

  136. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    SwedishPoster,

    Here’s hoping he takes the Klefbom development path and it pays dividends. So, arrival on 3rd pairing in, say, ’22-23 or 23-24?

  137. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Erik Gustafsson wasn’t a full time NHLer until 26 and he scored 60 points!!

    *buries head in hands & cries*

  138. GMB3 says:

    BONE207: My thoughts on Chiasson was that he come back after a summer of improving his speed. If he does that, he may be a “good in the room” guy who would then also be a more impactful player on the top lines. Having an SC ring helps too for potential playoff (?) experience. Only then would you offer him a contract at 1.5 to 2 million. Hopefully he is doing exactly that.

    Good luck improving speed at 27 years old… you would think he did that with no contract to speak of last summer…

    Milan Lucic is a cup winner too….

  139. OriginalPouzar says:

    Thanks to SP for the info on Broberg. I look forward to many updates.

    I look for two thing:

    – avoid relegation back to AIK; and

    – gain the trust of his coach and earn minutes up the lineup culminating in a legit top 4 guy by year end.

    Go Phil!

  140. Nit64 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: 1) Reached for ‘Brah

    Odd that everyone says this and yet Brah was the 2nd D in the BobFather list and the 3rd D selected. If that was a reach then just about every D drafted in the first round was also a reach. Fans seem to think the BobFather list is a draft value list. But after the top 3 the GMs listed 10 straight F and then 5 straight D. That sure looks like those surveyed were reporting consensus tiers not suggested draft order. When it came to their own boards the GMs clearly did not have all 10F ahead of the 5D. On average those D went about 4 spots earlier and the F about 3 spots later than on the BobFather list.

  141. GMB3 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – The original query was what do we expect from Persson?

    – I couldn’t think of a player with same scenario making it.Props for finding the one: good call

    – But its a reach big time to suggest that by finding the one to “prove” me wrong, and allocate therefore expectations is reasonable. Your understanding of “giving him a chance” and one example (Rafalski was american, played in US, had North American experience, and went to all-star D corp), doesn’t bolster your case

    – But I get it, you took it as snarky.Your willing to hope that he makes it.Good on you.Your not wrong.He has a chance.You can hope for the best.You’ve found the one guy who defied the odds, and pin your hopes that this is the second: hey it could happen.I don’t think it is at all reasonable to expect him to be an effective player, based on all the handicaps and hindrance and precedents that a European (especially one who doesn’t play in international tourneys) faces coming over at 25

    – But I get it: you thought I was snarky, you took a shot.Nice work

    – But what I do like is that between Persson, Jones, Lagesson, Bear we should be able to find one #6 D that isn’t going to be awful: that’s a more nuanced, mature belief on “hoping for a D to come in”

    And referenced the expectations of Persson as a third pairing guy, if he could handle that role.

    You then stated that no players have come over from Europe and been impactful. Bruce listed off a number of players who have. Not one post I’ve seen has said they EXPECT Persson to be Fetisov, Rafalski, or Zidlicky.

    I’m pretty sure Bruce just gave you a list of guys who have, and you just used that list to create your own narrative of people in “Oiltown” having unrealistic expectations, and that’s why we are never happy. I don’t know if I’ve seen many posts around here where members of this forum have explicitly expressed the opinion that Persson was going to be a top 4, impactful player.

    This was a pretty happy place in the spring of 2017, fwiw.

  142. Rube Foster says:

    It is conceivable that in the near future we could have four Swede’s patrolling the Oilers blueline?

    By January 2020 in a Tre Kronor alternative universe with MPS, Loui and Nygard killing penalties and scoring a dozen goals apiece on our third line:) We could see something like this:

    Klefbom – Larsson
    Nurse – Russell/Benning/Jones
    Lagesson – Persson

    Perhaps we hold on to Russell to start the season, let him give cover and veteran guidance to the kids and then sell him off for a top six winger prospect at the trade deadline, when traditionally veteran defensemen hold high value.

    I’m not saying this deal was available or remotely possible but had we recognized the playoffs were a pipe dream last season (as opposed to loading up for a playoff run by trading for Manning & Petrovic… ugh, thank you Chia.) maybe, just maybe we could’ve got Washington to look at a Russell for Burakowsky trade.

  143. OriginalPouzar says:

    Responding to the following from Kinger:

    – You guys and this are case in point why fans get so upset in Oiltown.Same yesterday with Jultz.Your expectations are just out of whack, then you get ticked when they aren’t met.

    – Defending Jultz as Norris, or that Persson is going to be the guy who makes an impact on D

    ______________________________

    I encourage you read through the posts yesterday on Shultz – you’re statement that guys like Bear have a higher potential than he did at the same age has zero justification in objectivity.

    To the Persson – I don’t think anyone is talking about him coming in and solidifying the 2nd pairing – the question was if he could play sheltered 3rd pairing minutes and PP. You then posted a factually incorrect statement about players coming over from Sweden and now are arguing against something that noone has posited.

  144. Alpine says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    SwedishPoster,

    Here’s hoping he takes the Klefbom development path and it pays dividends.So, arrival on 3rd pairing in, say, ’22-23 or 23-24?

    Klefbom did miss most of his draft+2 season and only played 11 games so he kind of lost a year of development. Post-draft, he played just over 40 more games in the SEL then 50 games in the AHL before he became top four in his draft+4. Had some spot duty on the third pairing in draft+3.

    If Phil can stay healthy, then I’d say we’re looking at 3rd pairing in ‘21-22. That would be after either two years in the SHL or one year in each of the SHL/AHL. If he’s like Klefbom but doesn’t get hurt then draft+3 and potentially draft+2 could be when he’s ready for third pairing.

  145. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sam Bennett has indeed filed for arbitration.

  146. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    It’s the daily straw man by Kinger. Same as it ever was.

  147. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Alpine,

    Yeah I was aiming more at the path and less the delays due to injury.

    I was thinking SHL for a year, AHL for a year, and maybe NHL on the third pairing the year following. If not then in the NHL the season after, so D+3 or D+4.

    Optimistic? Maybe. I wouldn’t be upset if it took him 5 years. Just so long as when he does arrive, he’s bonafide.

  148. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    OriginalPouzar,

    It’s the daily straw man by Kinger.Same as it ever was.

    – ??? Not sure why you need to insult and personalize things. I get it : Go Persson! Yeah Team!

    – Kinger is a straw-man: f%ck that guy

  149. rickithebear says:

    Pouzar: thanks for pointing out the facts any person can look up.
    Chaisson did get his most effective evg production with Draisaitl & redier.

    Mcdavid got his most effective evg production with Draisaitl & Chaisson

    When you combine the 3 sets of results you end up with an expected evg/60 for the line of 4.00 evg/60
    That is why when discussing lines the other day.
    I sought out the lines that should get the most combined EVTOI available to maintain an elite pairs results.

    Draisaitl & Mcdavid should see 1480 EVTOI each.
    They are shared for extra minutes running 2nd/3 TD line roles beyond their 1 st line minutes.
    (888 min together) Draisaitl 24 evg – Mcdavid
    I would hope they run the best lines for a high % of TOI

    So based on best evg line results.
    Chaisson – Mcdavid- Draisaitl 4.00 evg/60
    Draisaitl – Mcdavid – Kassian 4.00 evg/ 60
    Lucic – RNH – Gagner greater than 3.66 evg/60
    Then viable pairs to be shared with others
    Draisaitl – Mcdavid 48 goals in 888 min is 3.23 evg/60 then add line mates EvG to get lines Evg scored in 60 minutes.
    Lucic – xxx – Gagner 2.67 evg /60 + centres evg/60 rate gets summed evg scores.
    Xxx- RNH – Kassian 2.50 evg/60

    This is the lines & pairs that should be the basis for 1 st to third line evg production.
    Clear data.
    Not opinion.

    Have presented this for yours.

  150. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
    A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be “attacking a straw man.”

  151. jtblack says:

    McSorley33:
    jtblack,

    EDMONTON plays 40 Games from season opener until X MAS ….

    So we should have our answer on this team before SAINT NIC ARRIVES.
    ************************************************************************************
    We usually do…..anything post Halloween is usually bonus time for us.

    any game after Halloween, I will just be eternally Grateful, until we are out by more than 10 points …

    #12OutOf13

  152. kooler says:

    Too bad Oil didn’t hold onto Sekera a bit longer…..Jets could us a senior D guy.

  153. Lowetide says:

    We were having some respect issues, so I gave us all a timeout. We’ll see how the next while goes, but honestly guys if you want to piss on something I suggest using the washroom in your homes. This is a place for respectful discussion, please and thanks.

  154. Jethro Tull says:

    R-E-S-P-E-C-T
    Find out what that means to me!
    A cider made from sour cherry!

  155. Reja says:

    BONE207: My thoughts on Chiasson was that he come back after a summer of improving his speed. If he does that, he may be a “good in the room” guy who would then also be a more impactful player on the top lines. Having an SC ring helps too for potential playoff (?) experience. Only then would you offer him a contract at 1.5 to 2 million. Hopefully he is doing exactly that.

    When Chase played in Dal,Ott,Cal I always noticed him good thought he would be a consistent 20-25 goal man. Chase will score 20+ he’s a late bloomer who has figured out the soft spots with his deceptive shot he will cover the bet.

  156. blainer says:

    Lots of folks saying Broberg was a reach but many people said after the first two the draft could go in any direction which it kinda did.

    I was hoping for Caufield but after watching lots of video of Broberg I’m very happy we drafted him and honestly believe most posters are going to very happy with this pick in two years as well..

    My oh my that skating is off the charts IMO. He does have work to do but he is also barely 18 years old.

    I also wonder if this was a safe pick not knowing who is getting zoomed with those Americans.

  157. Lowetide says:

    I wrote this about Darnell Nurse six months after he was drafted by Edmonton. It’s also true for Broberg:

    It’s important too to remember that Nurse’s overall value is mostly defense based on his draft day scouting report, and impressive offense is a five-star kicker. If he scores 25 points a season in the NHL as a top 4D that’s going to hold value. If he can score 40? We’re looking at a 25-minute a night defender who can play in all three disciplines (if he continues tracking this way).

    https://lowetide.ca/2013/11/11/1-prospect-winter-2013-darnell-nurse/

  158. theDjdj says:

    Lowetide:
    I wrote this about Darnell Nurse six months after he was drafted by Edmonton. It’s also true for Broberg:

    It’s important too to remember that Nurse’s overall value is mostly defense based on his draft day scouting report, and impressive offense is a five-star kicker. If he scores 25 points a season in the NHL as a top 4D that’s going to hold value. If he can score 40? We’re looking at a 25-minute a night defender who can play in all three disciplines (if he continues tracking this way).

    https://lowetide.ca/2013/11/11/1-prospect-winter-2013-darnell-nurse/

    LT or others, is it true that Broberg is potentially an even better skater than Nurse?

  159. Lowetide says:

    theDjdj: LT or others, is it true that Broberg is potentially an even better skater than Nurse?

    I think he can scoot through the neutral zone faster, Nurse has more power but Broberg is racing for the edge. One hopes he develops another move, but that won’t happen until he stops having success skating by everyone.

  160. Primetime says:

    Lowetide: I think he can scoot through the neutral zone faster, Nurse has more power but Broberg is racing for the edge. One hopes he develops another move, but that won’t happen until he stops having success skating by everyone.

    For that very reason I think it’s better he goes back to SHL…playing against
    Men will force him to develop other parts of his game vs racing by his peers in OHL (regardless of ice size)

  161. nelson88 says:

    Loved Jan Hjeda. One of MacT’s many overly stubborn moments. Won’t be surprised if Kevin Gravel is a Jan Hjeda light

  162. Reja says:

    Jack and Jill went up the hill both with a buck and a quarter Jill came down with 2.50

  163. theDjdj says:

    Lowetide: I think he can scoot through the neutral zone faster, Nurse has more power but Broberg is racing for the edge. One hopes he develops another move, but that won’t happen until he stops having success skating by everyone.

    Some of the Broberg criticism around skating into the zone with no real plan of attack reminds me of Nurse’s game. You’d have to think playing in SHL will expose his weaknesses quicker than hammering in the OHL.

    Related question: which league has a higher skill caliber, OHL or SHL?

  164. YKOil says:

    JimmyV1965:
    I will consider it a very successful season if Holland brings in just one good player; a top 6 forward, top 4 dman or a starting goalie. The latter two are pretty well out of the question, but there’s still lots of time to acquire a top 6 forward. I hope we make the playoffs, but that would likely require some good luck. A simple, incremental improvement would make me happy. We wait.

    On an ‘of course’ basis, making the play-offs represents a successful season.

    Otherwise I view a successful season progressing like so:

    a. 85+ pts in the standings (3 more wins over losses)
    b. injury free, excepting a game here or there for the odd stinger, McDavid and Klefbom year
    c. improvement in the play, and attending results, of Lucic, Khaira, Larsson, and Koskinen
    d. development, into dependable players, of any two of Persson, Jones, Lagesson, Bear
    e. development, into dependable players, of any three of Granlund, Jurco, Nygard, Haas, Cave, Marody (four, if including Puljujarvi)
    f. continued development of Benson, Yamamoto, et al
    g. no collapses in play of Kassian, Chaisson, et al
    h. trade, by the deadline, any three of Manning, Brodziak, Gagner, Russell, Smith

    I won’t get all I want but tangible progress would be enough to make me happy with next year’s results.

  165. Halfwise says:

    Reja:
    Jack and Jill went up the hill both with a buck and a quarter Jill came down with 2.50

    So if they were working for you, and you had to cut costs, and Jill was so hot you couldn’t think straight, would you lay Jill or Jack off?

  166. YKOil says:

    I wonder who shakes loose in arbitration. Represents the last big bite of Cap from the teams and the remaining UFA’s will have to try to get a piece of what little will be left.

    A good group of players WILL be available once arbitration is done and the quality RFA’s (Point, etc.) are signed.

    Be patient Holland. Signing Chiasson wasn’t the best move, and it isn’t a killer mistake all things considered, but the better move was to stay patient and leave the bullet in the chamber.

  167. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: I think he can scoot through the neutral zone faster, Nurse has more power but Broberg is racing for the edge. One hopes he develops another move, but that won’t happen until he stops having success skating by everyone.

    This will be the benefit of playing a full year for Skellefteå in the top Swedish league as opposed to in Hamilton.

  168. OriginalPouzar says:

    theDjdj: Some of the Broberg criticism around skating into the zone with no real plan of attack reminds me of Nurse’s game. You’d have to think playing in SHL will expose his weaknesses quicker than hammering in the OHL.

    Related question: which league has a higher skill caliber, OHL or SHL?

    This would be the SHL without a doubt.

  169. ArmchairGM says:

    who: I don’t think Russell is moveable. If he was, I don’t think Holland buys out Sekera.
    The only dman that it makes sense to trade is Benning. I’ve been saying this for months, but no one is listening.

    Good thing. Benning is also the best bet to win 2RD minutes of any player on the roster.

  170. ArmchairGM says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Here is the list of 25 year old+D that have never played in the the NHL before, that moved directly from Europe and played impactful NHL D minutes immediately,in the history of the NHL:

    Zaitsev arrived at 25… but maybe that just proves your point.

  171. razor says:

    I think this Board is not giving enough credit to Holland for the Sekera buyout. It hurts because Sekera was still effective (when healthy) and management has a history of bad buyouts (see Gryba and Pouliot). But it took guts to pull the trigger on that buyout, given the likelihood Sekera may bounce back somewhere else. Holland needed more room to shore up the forward depth and possibly maneuver for a trade this summer (which I think will still happen). This may have been his only option to get that space. Put it this way, there’s no way Chiarelli would have done it if he was still here (given Sekera was a Chia signing)

  172. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    Andy Dufresne: Marner

    There’s only 3 teams I can see that could offer sheet him anything over $10M without busting up there cap.

    Montreal, Ottawa, Columbus

    Montreal only has $7.5M in cap space, but currently have 25 roster players. So if they did sign him, they likely can become cap compliant after trading away three players.

    Ottawa is probably not his first choice of offer sheet suitors, but they can probably offer the most money, and having Marner would speed up their rebuild dramatically. Plus, they have a crap load of UFAs and McArthur coming off the books next year. (Although at the same time will need to re-sign a crap load of RFAs)

    It would be super hilarious if Marner did sign with one of Toronto’s next door neighbours/rivals!!! Oh the booing!!! For us, it would be like having Draisaitl sign an offer sheet with Calgary…
    SUPER YUCK!!! 🤮

    I’m betting on columbus though. They just lost bobrovski, Duchene, Panarin, and probably Dzingel. And so far they’ve only signed Nyqvist.
    The only caveat would be resigning Dubois and Anderson next season.

  173. Bulging Twine says:

    BONE207:
    Hey Bulging Twine…what’s the word on Dzingel??? 15 minutes have elapsed…

    Right, got distracted there.
    – still not signed

  174. YKOil says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    I’m betting on columbus though. They just lost bobrovski, Duchene, Panarin, and probably Dzingel. And so far they’ve only signed Nyqvist. The only caveat would be resigning Dubois and Anderson next season.

    Not sure Columbus has the draft picks, the Dzingel trade took their 2020 and 2021 2nd round picks. They are also missing their 2020 3rd (for Ian Cole).

    Given how Dzingel performed I am pretty sure they regret that trade (of all the trades they made for that run).

    I hear Dzingel isn’t signed yet.

  175. who says:

    ArmchairGM: Good thing. Benning is also the best bet to win 2RD minutes of any player on the roster.

    You may be right. It’s probably going to be him or Russell, for this year.
    But I think you have to look past this year. By this time next year there is a very good chance that 2 of Perrson, Bouchard, Bear, Jones or Lagesson will have passed him on the depth chart. If you want to open up a roster spot, and some cap space, he is the easiest guy to move, and replace.
    We aren’t winning the cup this year anyways.

  176. Bulging Twine says:

    YKOil: Not sure Columbus has the draft picks, the Dzingel trade took their 2020 and 2021 2nd round picks.They are also missing their 2020 3rd (for Ian Cole).

    Given how Dzingel performed I am pretty sure they regret that trade (of all the trades they made for that run).

    I hear Dzingel isn’t signed yet.

    Yep, you’re right, he isn’t signed yet, just checked. Could happen any moment though!

  177. fanaddict says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Fantasy?

    Fantasy

  178. fanaddict says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    All he needs to do is pot 30 goals this year.

    Fantasy

  179. fanaddict says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Foot speed aside, Brian Boyles fancies are what we all dream Jujhar Khaira will become sometime soon.

    Fantasy

  180. fanaddict says:

    Caribbeerman,

    my ultimate hope would be a 3 way with Calgary & Vancouver

    Fantasy

  181. Scungilli Slushy says:

    So many good ideas and much time well spent thinking arrives at Lowetide.

    One thing to consider is how almost all players are so dependent on circumstance at the highest level of hockey.

    Which is why we’ve seen so many fails and flame outs in Oiler silks.

    Teams that get things mostly right succeed more than those that don’t.

    The team has for a long time had the wrong precepts, behaved arrogantly, and blamed the players. And that lead to further errors in judgement.

    I believe we will see an improvement all round even if nothing fun happens. It is easy to dismiss Holland’s comment about bringing stability, but those words are key.

    A positive motivating coach, respect and considered words in public, openness which engages fans without ‘stream of conscious’ media avails revealing every internal idea, being firm and fair. It will bring a significantly improved more unified team on the ice.

    Which is perhaps why they are being judicious regardless of cap implications. They do have a core of really good players. Holland will keep working and when a good deal comes up he’ll move. If it doesn’t I think we can expect a much more even effort and far less no shows which in itself probably means playoff contention.

    There has been a lot of movement in the west, but I expect most of it does not end up making a team that moved ahead overall much.

    Colorado would be most people’s first choice for dangerous, but they are going to run a D with young smallish offensive types at it’s heart. I think if that works it will be in the years ahead, Byram shouldn’t be in the league this year and even if draft +1 he’ll be 3rds.

    Dallas would be threat #2 but there is a lot of gambles on old players, 2 with issues, and another young smallish D.

    I don’t see playoff dominance in either. The Oilers are as much a threat as anybody but St Louis if they can get in IMO.

  182. Munny says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    Aldo Nova

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miSMxBP42W0

    I ain’t clicking that link. No way.

    If I do, I’m going to hear a helicopter and expect it to drop a player.

  183. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    YKOil: Not sure Columbus has the draft picks, the Dzingel trade took their 2020 and 2021 2nd round picks.They are also missing their 2020 3rd (for Ian Cole).

    Given how Dzingel performed I am pretty sure they regret that trade (of all the trades they made for that run).

    I hear Dzingel isn’t signed yet.

    Actually, if columbus offer sheets Marner for the 7th (top) compensation tier at an AAV $10,568,590 or higher based on 5 year term (which is what is being speculated), they would owe four 1st round picks (which at the moment, every team is able to do)

    Four 1st rounders is a hell of a price though…

  184. Reja says:

    YKOil: Not sure Columbus has the draft picks, the Dzingel trade took their 2020 and 2021 2nd round picks.They are also missing their 2020 3rd (for Ian Cole).

    Given how Dzingel performed I am pretty sure they regret that trade (of all the trades they made for that run).

    I hear Dzingel isn’t signed yet.

    The Jackets are ripe for the pickings Jesse and Caleb for my man Josh Anderson.The Finn will wake up the the Finn,Caleb we be with his brother just like the Potvin brothers. Come on Holland quit fuking around and get a winger to complete my Canadian Triple Crown line.

  185. BONE207 says:

    Halfwise: So if they were working for you, and you had to cut costs, and Jill was so hot you couldn’t think straight, would you lay Jill or Jack off?

    Well I can’t speak for anyone else but I might do both. Anything to get straight…🤪

  186. ArmchairGM says:

    Lowetide:
    I wrote this about Darnell Nurse six months after he was drafted by Edmonton. It’s also true for Broberg:

    It’s important too to remember that Nurse’s overall value is mostly defense based on his draft day scouting report, and impressive offense is a five-star kicker. If he scores 25 points a season in the NHL as a top 4D that’s going to hold value. If he can score 40? We’re looking at a 25-minute a night defender who can play in all three disciplines (if he continues tracking this way).

    https://lowetide.ca/2013/11/11/1-prospect-winter-2013-darnell-nurse/

    Damn that was a hot take.

  187. jp says:

    who: You may be right. It’s probably going to be him or Russell, for this year.
    But I think you have to look past this year. By this time next year there is a very good chance that 2 of Perrson, Bouchard, Bear, Jones or Lagesson will have passed him on the depth chart. If you want to open up a roster spot, and some cap space, he is the easiest guy to move, and replace.
    We aren’t winning the cup this year anyways.

    Fun fact: Persson is 3 weeks older than Matt Benning.

    I disagree that 2 of those guys will pass Benning by next year. In fact it’s likely none of them have by then, IMO.

    We should be very happy if 2 of them ever become better players than Benning is now. Expecting it to happen in the next year is not reasonable.

  188. who says:

    jp: Fun fact: Persson is 3 weeks older than Matt Benning.

    I disagree that 2 of those guys will pass Benning by next year. In fact it’s likely none of them have by then, IMO.

    We should be very happy if 2 of them ever become better players than Benning is now. Expecting it to happen in the next year is not reasonable.

    I guess we’ll see. I think you could make an arguement that Bouchard and Jones are already better. The other three, who knows?
    But a year from now, I like my bet.

  189. ArmchairGM says:

    who: You may be right. It’s probably going to be him or Russell, for this year.
    But I think you have to look past this year. By this time next year there is a very good chance that 2 of Perrson, Bouchard, Bear, Jones or Lagesson will have passed him on the depth chart. If you want to open up a roster spot, and some cap space, he is the easiest guy to move, and replace.
    We aren’t winning the cup this year anyways.

    As the best bet for 2RD in the roster, he isn’t the easiest player to replace at all. What you’re advocating is playing too many rookies and playing them too high in the lineup. Not a great plan IMO.

    Benning won’t have lost any value next summer, we need to see where the rookies are FIRST and then talk about trading players that have been passed.

  190. who says:

    ArmchairGM: As the best bet for 2RD in the roster, he isn’t the easiest player to replace at all. What you’re advocating is playing too many rookies and playing them too high in the lineup. Not a great plan IMO.

    Benning won’t have lost any value next summer, we need to see where the rookies are FIRST and then talk about trading players that have been passed.

    First of all, is he really the best bet for 2RD? He’s been given that position the last 2 years, and lost it to Russell both times.
    How hard is it to replace a 3RD? Especially when you consider all the prospects we have coming?

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