The news came last night, Phil Kessel went for bright lights, big city. I’m not sure how much interest the Oilers had but would guess it was more than a little. You see, if you stick all of these rumours (Gagner PTO? Kessel mutual interest? Patrick KANE!!!!!) it’s reasonable to suggest the Oilers would like to add an offensive right winger before training camp.
THE ATHLETIC!
- Lowetide: 9 Bold Predictions for the 2022-23 Edmonton Oilers
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers reasonable expectations for every player in 2022-23
- Lowetide: Why Oilers prospect Raphael Lavoie is in for a make or break season
- Lowetide: Finding Edmonton Oilers’ ideal skill lines for 2022-23
- Lowetide: Oilers have room for UFA contract or PTO. Is there a match?
- Lowetide: Oilers question marks as training camp nears
- Lowetide: Xavier Bourgault leads strong group of Oilers prospects graduating to pro hockey this fall
- Lowetide: Oilers math shows 41 candidates for 23 (or fewer) jobs. Who could play where?
- Lowetide: Why did Oilers select Nikita Yevseyev at the 2022 NHL Draft?
- Lowetide: Oilers’ expectations of Jack Campbell in his first Edmonton season
- Lowetide: Who will the Oilers trade for cap purposes?
- Lowetide: 5 Edmonton Oilers training camp surprises
- DNB: With Oilers roster intact, stars readying for next step
- Lowetide: What are reasonable expectations for the Oilers in 2022-23?
- Lowetide: Four Oilers defence prospects applying for one job. Who wins?
- Lowetide: For Oilers forward Dylan Holloway, the future may come early
- DNB: Oilers’ Brad Holland on AGM role, analytics, working with his dad: Q&A
- Lowetide: Oilers top-20 prospects, summer 2022
- DNB: First-round pick Reid Schaefer can bring ‘big-boy hockey’ to his hometown team
KEN HOLLAND’S LISTS
Ken Holland has ended summer without his to-do list complete in each of his seasons in Edmonton. We know this because the goaltending issue didn’t get solved long term until this summer, and he was trying to find one each year before 2022. This year, it looks like right-wing is the last (or second last) item on the list.
Holland had a good summer. Oh sure, you’ll hear things like “all he did was bring back last year’s team” which ignores both getting to the final four and upgrading the goaltending. It also ignores the potential improvement from young players like Evan Bouchard, Stuart Skinner, Ryan McLeod, Philip Broberg and others. Edmonton has done good work since the end of the team’s playoff run.
Holland wants more. That’s a good thing.
It’s my belief this morning that “more” is Sam Gagner. The headline of Kessel and the earth-shattering of Patrick Kane arriving in Edmonton would have sent tremors everywhere, but the PTO addition of Gagner may in fact be the correct way to go.
There’s just too much unknown for Holland to be going large this early in the process. Word this morning that the Oilers were in on John Klingberg this summer informs us management is interested in upgrading defense. Will that need get bigger over the season? My guess is yes. Signing Gagner gives Edmonton some more offense from the bottom-six and a short-term replacement for one of the skill right-wingers in case of injury or slump. Chances are Jay Woodcroft can get something out of Gagner over the long winter and come spring, well maybe the general manager loads up the right side.
- Evander Kane-Connor McDavid-Kailer Yamamoto
- Ryan McLeod-Leon Draisaitl-Zach Hyman
- Warren Foegele-Nuge-Jesse Puljujarvi
- Mattias Janmark-Derek Ryan-Sam Gagner
- Devin Shore
- Darnell Nurse-Cody Ceci
- Brett Kulak-Evan Bouchard
- Philip Broberg-Tyson Barrie
- Dmitri Samorukov
- Jack Campbell (Stuart Skinner)
LOWETIDE AND JAMIESON
10-2 today on TSN 1260, we preview the CFL weekend, NFL season, Phil Kessel’s contract and more. Texts welcome at 10-1260, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon.
Sam’s boots were slow and heavy in 2006. Doubt they are any better in 2022.
Looks like Kessel money went to Janmark. Oh well.
It was pretty neat to see the number 1 golfer Nelly Korda where a Blackhawks jersey for her round today at the Woman’s Canadian Open. Her Boyfriend is A.A who signed with them this off-season.
I am surprised by this news. I was sure they would go after a mid level vet like Reimer.
——————–
One of the most pressing topics he addressed was the team’s goaltending. McCrimmon stated that the team will run a goalie tandem of Logan Thompson and Laurent Brossoit for the entirety of next season, if possible.
Yup, me too.
Not to mention Brossoit isn’t 100% and may not be to start the season.
Not a bad bet IMO.
Thompson has outperformed Skinner by a wide margin in both the AHL and NHL.
While Campbell certainly looks superior to Broissoit, I imagine Vegas is counting on Thompson to should most of the load.
It could go sideways but then that’s true of most goalie tandems.
You are so full of it, it is ridiculous…..
Its hilarious because Skinner outperformed Thompson in the AHL last season and their NHL numbers were all but identical.
Thompson equates to Skinner – Vegas starter equates to Oilers back-up.
Its objective and not really arguable.
Good grief.
Latest AHL season for Logan Thompson:
.920
Latest AHL season for Stuart Skinner:
.920
Latest NHL season for Logan Thompson:
.914
Latest NHL season for Skinner:
.913
Outperformed by a wide margin indeed.
Are you confused and looking at Jeff Skinner’s stats?
Plus Thompson has played a total of 20 games in the NHL games. I’m excited about an unproven #1 goalie in the Pacific, let alone for Vegas.
Not to mention, Skinner’s GAA in the AHL was 50 points better.
I see you have made the leap from vaguely uncertain comparisons to out and out falsehoods. You running for US Senate or something?
Have you been court mandated to write this crap? It is hard to imagine anyone intentionally being this – well “silly” comes to mind.
Let me guess… you didn’t do your due diligence before you posted, right?
I guess no bet is bad if you don’t pay up.
Putting HH’s daily trolling aside.
defmn – I think the price for Reimer must be pretty steep … and that SJS really has no interest in moving him. Both ours and TML’s fanbase and media were pushing had for Reimer prior to the start of free agency. Then Vegas’ fanbase and media did the same. You’d have to think that at least one of these teams, if not all three, gave Grier a call … but if the other team’s GM has no interest in moving the player, it doesn’t matter how much digital ink is spilt.
Since Kadri didn’t sign in NYI, there really is no urgent for Lou to move Varlamov.
Beyond that, there aren’t many better options than just rolling with what you have internally.
We’ve seen this before … the last two seasons it’s been the Oilers who ended sticking with what they had when the music stopped and the few decent free agent goalies had signed on with other teams.
This year it’s Vegas.
Brossoit is not a starting goalie at the NHL level. He’s been wildly inconsistent as a backup. If Thompson doesn’t pan out, then Vegas is cooked.
Thompson might be the next Brogan Rafferty!
thompson is also 2 years older than stu skinner. 25 to 23. but dont mention that!!!!
Regarding Holland and Barrie and Klingberg and what he might be looking for in a D corps..
I’ve been meaning to do a post on this for a while but haven’t made the time, so I’ll do an abridged version here.
The past often informs the future. So I wondered what D corps Holland has constructed in the past. A 25 year career is too much for me to look through in detail, but I thought it would be helpful to look at his previous Cup winning D corps.
So Detroit Red Wings D corps in 1998, 2002 and 2008.
Players with (age) are listed, and they’re ranked by TOI.
1998
Nick Lidstrom (27) 27:50
Larry Murphy (36) 26:50
——-
Dimitro Mironov (31) 20:00 (only 7 games)
Jamie Macoun (36) 17:30
Bob Rouse (33) 17:00
——–
Slava Fetisov (39) 15:25
Anders Eriksson (22) 12:45
This was Holland’s first year as GM. He acquired Mironov (Pushor and 4th) and Macoun (4th) at the deadline. All the others he inherited (though he was AGM for the previous 3 seasons, so would have had some role). Mironov and Macoun both played top 4 in the playoffs (though Mironov was injured for the majority).
2002
Nick Lidstrom (31) 31:10
Chris Chelios (39) 26:20
——-
Uwe Krupp (36) 20:00 (only 2 games)
Frederik Olausson (34) 20:00
Jiri Fischer (21) 19:40
————
Steve Duchesne (36) 13:35
Mathieu Dandenault (25) 13:30
Jiri Slegr (30) 17:10 in one game
In previous years Holland had traded for Chris Chelios and signed Steve Duchesne as a free agent. The offseason before the Cup win he’d signed Uwe Krupp and Frederik Olausson as free agents. Krupp played top 4 whenever he was healthy but missed the large majority of the season and playoffs. At the deadline his only acquisition was Jiri Slegr (Butsayev +3rd) who played 7/8D.
2008
Lidstrom (37) 26:50
Rafalski (33) 24:55
——-
Kronwall (26) 23:20
Stuart (27) 21:40
——–
Lilja (32) 14:05 (12 games)
Chelios (45) 12:55 (14 games)
Lebda (25) 12:35 (19 games)
In previous years Rafalski, Lilja, Lebda (from college) were signed as free agents. Stuart (2nd and 4th) was the lone deadline add, and he played top 4 in the playoffs.
Anyway, there are a few crusty types in there, but mostly it’s guys who can ‘play hockey’ and move the puck. 2002 with Duchesne and Olausson, then adding Slegr at the deadline sticks out in particular.
Are you saying we have to wait a decade for our d to be old enough for Holland to win the cup again?
The Klingberg intel is interesting on multiple levels. One of them being that Holland probably doesn’t think the D needs ‘balancing’.
I’ve thought that might be the case for a while, but I think we can take the interest in Klingberg as some degree of confirmation.
I guess we should assume Barrie would have been dealt, but acquiring Klingberg would have sent a message to Bouchard since Klingberg is a PP QB.
Yes, you’d think Barrie would have been moved (for cap as well as role).
Not sure it would have been a ‘message’ for Bouchard, but it would have keep a lid on his PP production going forward. He was 4th on the Oilers (including forwards) in 5v5 points this year though, and can play D well enough, so it’s not like he’d have to move on or anything.
Yes…and capping his next contract is indeed the message that would have been sent.
Bouchard is already a year behind most of his draft cohort in remuneration so I can’t imagine he or his agent would have been very happy with a situation that artificially limits his opportunity and compensation,
Toronto is currently going through this with Rasmus Sandin who is reluctant to sign an extension due to lack of opportunity and ice time.
While I’m sure the team would like a restrained contract extension, it works very much against the players interest in that he can never recover that lost income…careers are short.
As an example, compare the compensation Noah Dobson will receive this season to that for Bouchard and bear in mind that Quinn Hughes is already entering the second season of a lucrative extension,
You tried to imagine being multiple agents for multiple players this offseason, and all of your attempts were dead wrong.
So…..
He shows remarkable consistency.
Some people don’t seem to grasp that this is millions of dollars involved for Bouchard. A few years back I wonder what Bouchard and his agent were bullshitting about in the Hotel room after being informed he’s a healthy scratch again because……
A healthy scratch because of the three established right shot d-men in front of him. I agree that Tippett should have worked to get Bouch more games but the only thing confusing is the complete inability to accept the clear and obvious reasons. You don’t have to agree with the reasons, I don’t even fully agree, “because…” is just silly.
As I’ve posted here and there for years, sometimes not having that ELC year burned can cost the team and benefit the player – this is one of these cases. Bouch is a year behind but is going to get paid more on his next contract due to the ELC being extended.
Bouchard had the Pedigree but wasn’t drafted by Holland. You give Bouchard 3rd pairing minutes and some scraps on the PP that is proper development not having him sit in a Hotel room all year. So we lose a year of a Bouchard’s development that could of come in handy against the Av’s especially late in game three. If Bear was not in their plans are as it turned out Adam Larsson wasn’t either then why crater a year of his development???
What makes you think Adam wasn’t in the Oilers plans?
Because he plays for Seattle it’s not like a trial marriage separation he’s gone for good.
How do you ascertain that he wasn’t in the Oilers’ plans considering the widely accepted intel, from the express words of Ken Holland, that they tried to re-sign him until the moment he moved on?
Your new favourite word is Intel do you work for the FBI? You sure like throwing that word around this off-season. Who plays defence for the Oilers??
A. Ethan Bear.
B. Adam Larsson.
C. Evan Bouchard.
D. None of the above.
If I recall, the Oilers made him an offer but he went to Seattle cause Edmonton reminded him of his father’s passing. I don’t see how that means he wasn’t in the Oilers plans.
This may not be factual but aren’t most core players signed with a year left on their contract. If you wait till the last minute aren’t you running a risk (Johnny) of the player moving on to so called greener pastures.
Again, the reasons are clear and obvious.
You don’t have to agree with the reasons, you clearly don’t. I don’t even agree that the coaches couldn’t have done differently. The said the reasons are clear and obvious. Tippett was coaching to win games in real time, not factoring in Holland’s thought’s on Bear’s future, put playing the three established NHL d-men with recent top 4 success.
Your tidbit on Larsson is not based in any reality.
Your views on all of this are hilarious. Such a clown show
The thought of Patrick Kane joining this team is just too exciting. No room for caution or logic in this scenario. My only gripe is how many people aren’t pairing him with 97!
Kane McDavid Kane
The McKane line. McDavid could hit 180.
Only the brave dare navigate through the lane of Kanes.
Co-Kanes?
lol the boys on the bus part 2
Because Patrick Kane would do far better with Draisaitl than with McDavid. Have you ever watch them play?
McDavid and Kane are both better players with the puck on their stick. With Draisaitl, it doesn’t matter. He is now equally dangerous as a playmaker and as a shooter. Evander Kane is also equally effective with or without the puck, but McDavid supercharges without the puck Evander, and Kane offers the physical protection to McDavid that no one else is able to.
I think P Kane would free Drai up so much he would be an extra level harder to defend because he wouldn’t have to be the play driver and his predictably could be reduced
Having to keep an eye on Drai and Kane would be no fun, at all. Perfect
You give open ice to Leon and he’ll make you pay. Kane’s greatest weapon is pulling opponent’s out of position which results in freeing up his linemates.
Exactly
McDavid-EKane
Draisaitl-PKane
RNH-Hyman
That’s how I’d run the lines … fill in the other wingers as you like, but I want unicorns.
Mr Babcock has apparently resigned from the U of Sask. Timing is a little weird I would think.
Any team out there still in need of a coach? Is something afoot?
A one year gig back in his hometown, coaching at his alma mater with his son as assistant coach was always the plan.
Seems idyllic, and was by all accounts.
Not one report of a misspoken gruff word aimed at a too sensitive “Marner” type !
That whole scenario was bizarre.
Ryan Holt blogging today that Ryan Malone will be getting set back in Bakersfield with “his clan” prior to heading to Oilers’ camp.
I’m not positive Woody doesn’t have his former captain on his NHL team but it seems likely he starts the year as Condors’ captain – his most valuable role in the org.
You can rest easy now OP.
He’ll see some action in the dog days of the season as a reward for being basically a playing Coach down on the farm. He also brings some physicality which is lacking on our depth charts since it looks like Holland’s not going to bring in a rugged forward.
Perhaps – his last shift was taking a defensive zone faceoff in overtime of an elimination game in the Western Conference Finals in the NHL.
It was a fluky goal scored on a high stick watch the replay in slo-mo. You knew they weren’t going to overturn a series ending Goal. If RNH wasn’t one of the worst 10 year veteran face-off men I’ve ever seen then Malone wouldn’t have been taking the face-off to begin with. Where’s Messier, MacTavish or Adam Oates to finally teach RNH how to win are saw off a defensive zone face-off.
I see you missed the point of my post, yet again.
It was posted as evidence that the current coach has chosen to use the player in very high leverage situations with other options available.
Usage my be greater than you described based on history.
You’re like she-hulk surviving cat calls on this Malone usage lol.
Brad Malone was no longer an NHL option for the org. He hadn’t played an NHL game in 3 years and hadn’t had an NHL point in like 6 or 7. He was no longer even on an NHL contract and was 32 years old.
He had found a role, a hope and life in Bakersfield as a very important piece of the team (for the org).
Woody gets promoted and, shortly after, Malone doesn’t just have an NHL contract but he’s playing NHL games and, a bit later, playoff games and defensive zone draws in OT.
Now, at 33 years old, he has another NHL contract, a 2-year deal at that.
All I’m saying is that I believe that Brad Malone is a definite option for the coach and I’d be somewhat shocked if he doesn’t play NHL games this season and wouldn’t be surprised if he’s on the opening roster and maybe even 4C on opening night.
He’s brought in for his physicality yet you say we don’t need any rugged forwards in the bottom part of the team. Well it looks like Woody values physicality more than you do.
Stop stating things that “I say” that I have never said – geez – you do it every single day. You don’t seem to understand that many things are not black and white”. Stop re-stating my positions with inaccuracy.
ryan or brad malone?
Still watching for Sprong, Svechnikov, Steel, Dahlen. I’d love to see one or two of them signed for Edmonton.
Really like Steel as a bottom roster option. Bring the AB boy home!
Depending on who signs during the season there may be some interesting UFAs at the trade deadline or next summer. Some of my favourites:
Nathan MacKinnon, Dylan Larkin, TJ Compher, Artem Zub, Pius Suter, Patrick Kane, Matt Dumba, Cam Talbot, Tristan Jarry, Aidin Hill, Connor Ingram, Scott Mayfield, Brendan Lemieux, Michael Bunting, David Pastrnak, Ivan Barbashev, Miles Wood, Andrew Peake, Damon Severson, Andreas Athansiou, Max Domi, Adam Erne, Jordan Oesterle, Mark Pysyk, Nick Ritchie. Most of the youngish big ticket players will be signed before the deadline (MacKinnon, Larkin, Dumba, Jarry), but you never know.
If Bourgault pops, I’d seriously consider moving both Puljujarvi and Yamamoto to run Pastrnak & Bourgault in the top-6 RW spots. $9M times seven might do it…
That would be great, but I think that means Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Foegele, and Barrie all have to go and I’m not even sure that will be enough. Pastrnak will probably have a cap hit in the $9m to $10m range, no?
Correct. You’d need to move the four you mentioned, I posted earlier a scenario where Edmonton would move Yamamoto + Foegele in a Kane trade, so it just means finding new homes for Puljujarvi + Barrie next summer, which shouldn’t be difficult. Not only that but you’d need guys like Samorukov, Broberg, Bourgault & Holloway filling meaningful spots on their ELC’s as well. It’s aggressive, but within the realm of realism.
And then you’ll have to hope the cap rises significantly in 24-25 so you can keep the band together.
I would imagine Pastrnak will be $11M plus…..
Based on what comps? Not many teams could afford that – not contenders, anyhow.
Based on what MacKinnon is going to sign for (well over what McDavid currently makes) and where I think the “3rd tier of forwards” is going to be (with the likes of MacKinnon, Matthews, Drai being in the 2nd tier – McDavid in his own).
So… based on nothing more than your imagination. Got it.
Bill Daley from the 32 thoughts podcast “more optimistic” we will see the cap rise in 2 years (rather than the suggested 3 years) based on league projections
Nothing guaranteed of course, just early projections
No mention if there will be a cap bump this year
Ya, we talked about this a bit yesterday but the interview dropped this morning.
Definitely not cap bump this season and next season will only go up by $1MM again. There is now a chance that it will re-link to 50% of HRR and go up materially after next season though.
Sam Gagner seems the most likely and the cost would make sense (clearly $850K max given that’s what he played for each of the last two years).
The later we get, the more I think there is a glimmer of a chance of Evan Rodrigues. 19 goals and 43 points is real and he played all over that lineup it seems – no more than 330 minutes with any other forward.
Just like Jesee and Kailer, I think this guy can play in the top 6 RW or bottom 6 RW and he would know Ryan down to full 4RW.
I’ve been thinking he’s going to get near $2MM per and maybe some term but Kessel just signed for $1.5MM (older and not priming).
Could this guy come in less than $1.5MM and help stop-gap until Bourgault is ready?
He had 7 PPG as well and I like the looks of a PP2 with McLeod, Rodrigues, Kane, etc.
If they can sign Evan Rodrigues for $1.5M for at least one season , he would certainly make one of the $3m RWer’s expendable , making a Patrick Kane addition more reasonable and solidify the right side . They would also have Xavier Bourgault matriculating .
Is that what you’re getting at ? Probably not . LOL .
With players plans to return to Edmonton starting to trickle in I expect a lot of ‘unresolved’ issues are coming to a head in the next 10 days or so.
Hmm… let’s look at the numbers, shall we?
– Yamamoto and Foegele (+ non-roster stuff) for Kane with double retention ($2.625M cap hit)
– McLeod signed for $1.175M
– Rodrigue signed for $1.5M
– Koekkoek waived, Broberg & Samorukov in the #6 and #7 spots
– Shore as the 13th forward
… brings them to $82.389M with a 22-man roster. Doable, but tight. The lineup looks sick though:
Kane – McDavid – Puljujarvi
Hyman – Draisaitl – Kane
Holloway – Nuge – Rodrigue
Janmark – McLeod – Ryan
Shore
Not bad . I’d rather Rodrigues than Kessel anyway . Then Foegele and one of Jesse or Kailer for PK . Wowser !!
There are some pretty good value available in your non roster stuff with even the two players you mentioned being a high price for a rental player!
No, I’m getting at the fact that the Oilers have 3 right wingers and a 4th (Bourgault) that may be ready at some point this season (but not for certain).
I’m getting at the right wings for the season being:
Puljujarvi
Yamamoto
Rodrigues
Ryan
Bourgault matriculating and developing.
Shouldn’t swing for the homerun ?
I am comfortable with that above listed RW depth going in to the season (with Bourgault developing), keeping powder dry and assessing during the season as to team needs.
That’s just my preferred plan of attack.
Gagner scored as many even strength goals as Rodriguez. Neither one of these players is going to get minutes on the PP if they sign in Edmonton.
Rodriguez probably just put up a career high in points, and wants to get paid for it. I doubt he’ll take a minimum salary to play a 3rd or 4th line role. Hs should fire his agent before he does that.
Gagner OTOH I can see accepting a role as a 4th line winger, who may be in and out of the line-up in favour of giving some the kids their cup of coffee, or move higher up the lineup in a pinch and still have enough skill not to look out of place. His ability and willingness to PK makes him more valuable than Rodriguez.
Truth be told, Evan Rodrigues also fired his agent this summer, about 6 hours before free agency opened……
Don’t get too comfortable. LOL.
Thoughts:
Kane has a NMC. Without knowing the player but basing off his actions, I doubt he would waive to move to Edmonton until the deadline. Chi town can get cold but it aint YEG. A spring arrival for a run sounds more likely.
As for money, I don’t really see an issue. Throw in Klef’s contract, maybe even Smith’s and half retained for Kane and you’d net out with ~3M+ more in room. Do it now and that should make it possible to sign Mcleod as well. Gives up all LTIR flexibility in season but accrues tiny space for a deadline add.
Cost would be dear, but I actually think it would be cheaper than at the deadline. Remember when Chiarot got a 1st? Kane sweepstakes would be insane.
For a season of Kane I think the cost would mortgage the future. Bro, One of Holloway or X, Multiple picks, likely bordering on 2 1sts for 50% retained.
Cup or bust move and I don’t think the D is there yet. But Pitt won with scraps so what do I know.
Trading LTIR contracts doesn’t increase cap space though. It just allows teams to accrue during the season.
This is what I said with: Gives up all LTIR flexibility in season but accrues tiny space for a deadline add.
The issue was this I think:
Trading those LTIR contracts would not net more cap space.
Though it is true if they were moved the Oilers could accrue space through the year.
Yes. We all fall victim from time to time of wanting to spend that LTIR money as though it is extra money. 😉
Indeed we do 🙂
Fair point, I don’t know how to edit comments but I should have said something more along the lines of ‘utilized cap’ or ‘everyone under the cap is able to play hockey games’ It would put the Oil under LTIR limit by enough to sign Mcleod and allow accrual of capspace for a deadline addition (dman). And you have Patrick freaking Kane. I like it for those reasons.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you (apologies if that’s the case), but this statement is not true:
Trading Klefbom and Smith does not open up the cap room for Kane. Trading them does nothing at all to the Oilers available cap space. The only thing is does is allow the team to accrue cap during the year.
Since Kane has an NMC, there’s every chance that the return will look more like the Giroux trade. It just depends on how many teams are bidding – it may very well only be 1 or 2.
https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/568611
This implies Kane will say “I’m only going to 1 team take it or leave it”. I think in that scenario we are not on the shortlist. Would be a huge boon to be the only destination Kane wants to be. I wouldn’t put it past Kenny.
Don’t underestimate Duncan Keith’s influence. Since Kane’s destination will be about 1 Cup run and nothing to do with the future, I imagine Edmonton would be high on his list. But we just don’t know.
FWIW that’s much closer to what Stauffer is speculating than what Pretendergadt and others have assumed.
Getting out of being over the cap using LTIR reserves is going to be great for next season but your scenario doesn’t work. At this point, both Smith and Klef will be very close to net zero impact on the cap as the team will be able to go over the cap by the amount of their cap hits (well, not 100% but it will be damn close).
Removing either Klef or Smith at this point doesn’t create any cap space.
I’m not sure what you mean by “LTIR Flexibility” – its actually the opposite.
I won’t comment on giving up two of the top 4-5 prospects in the org – it won’t cost that and Holland wouldn’t even think about it (in my opinion).
LTIR Flexibility was incorrect phrasing as others have pointed out. That’s the beauty of the internet, you say 1 thing out of phrase and 4 people will tell you why you’re wrong. Quick place to learn.
Please tell me what Kane will cost while you are busy not commenting but then immediately commenting. 😉
you say 1 thing out of phrase and 4 people will tell you why you’re wrong.
================
I hope you didn’t take my initial response as me trying to be a dick. It wasn’t meant that way.
Not even slightly, I was wrong and I was corrected.
It was making the trade before day 1 of the NHL season part that messed me up. I mistook being cap compliant day 1 to mean ‘I have to be X amount under the cap day 1 to fit these LTIR contracts and can’t do anything until that roster is submitted under the cap. Quick search showed you can run a roster by putting players on LTIR day 1 with your initial submission. Also if I took a sec to think about it, if you were that amount under, you wouldn’t need LTIR.
Really wish i knew how to edit a comment.
No harm done, just tongue in cheek.
You can only edit for 5 minutes after the comment is made.
Word this morning that the Oilers were in on John Klingberg this summer
=========================
Who was the source on this, please and thanks.
Elliotte Friedman on the latest ep. of 32 Thoughts. It’s wilder than you think.
I belive this summarizes things here, for anyone who wants to read rather than listen to the podcast. Super interesting.
https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/08/25/canadiens-reportedly-nearly-involved-in-sign-trade-with-oilers/
And I would have to think that would have involved Barrie moving as well this summer. I guess that also explains why Treliving gave up a first to move Monahan. He had to beat Holland’s offer?
Yes, Barrie would have to have been on the move (maybe even to Montreal).
Could be on Treliving.
Good to hear Holland is getting creative and thinking big on this stuff!
Good to hear Holland is getting creative and thinking big on this stuff!
============
Yup. Exactly what I was thinking after posting. In a way it gives the P Kane gossip some credence.
This is where I think the younger Holland may be a nice addition and add to the mix. Wise old veteran with a young and bright hockey mind is a very nice and complementary combination!
I give Holland credit he’s trying all avenues. I still think 1 or possibly 2 of Foegele Yamamoto are J.P will be hitching a ride to the airport in the next couple of months
Thanks.
Glad to see this didn’t happen, as I’m not convinced Klingberg is an upgrade on Barrie, and he would have costed more plus required some assets to sign.
Not sure why there was a rush to sign Janmark? As a result it’s hindered our ability to resign McLeod with out having to make a trade. It’s kinda created a problem that didn’t have to be created when we could have waited to see if he was out there come late on off-season and offer a PTO.
Don’t get me wrong I like the player but it also cost us the ability to Sign Kessel or perhaps De Han or Yandle.
Janmark makes $500k over league minimum. With him the Oilers need to clear about $2M to ice a 22-man roster (this is assuming McLeod signs for $1M). If Janmark hadn’t been signed the Oilers would need to clear about $1.5M to ice a 22-man roster.
I don’t think Janmark has any effect at all on re-signing McLeod. It’s possible not signing him would have allowed the Oilers to sign Kessel or someone else, but I think Janmark is realistically the most likely replacement for Foegele on the 3rd line (with Foegele the most likely player to be moved to get the team cap compliant).
We haven’t seen him play yet, but at this point I don’t mind the signing at all. It seems likely he’ll be asked to play top 9 minutes, and that’s arguably as/more important than upgrading on Samorukov or whoever at 7D.
Agree with JP – Janmark’s signing has zero effect on McLeod’s signing.
Janmark isn’t just “on the roster”, he’s in the opening night lineup – if he wasn’t signed, someone else would in that lineup spot (in addition to McLeod being McLeod’s lineup spot).
I’m not enthused about Janmark but he’s a legit NHL player, not a tweener like Shore (at this point of his career) and likely to outperform his cap hit.
It is probable that Janmark’s agent reached out to Holland advising his client was interested in the Oilers. Very important that the player wants to come and sometimes we forget that players are people with family. The family needs time to acquire a residence get kids in school etc.
I’m ok signing Gagner to a pto but I hope there are a few better guys on the list. Gagner to me doesn’t really bring anything the team needs. I wouldn’t mind some muscle on the fourth line.
Leon on the 32 Thiughts Pod.
Confirms it was a high ankle sprain.
Confirms that a few times a game something would happen that would shoot pain and sap all his energy.
Confirms it took a while to figure out how to change his game to play with it. Couldn’t push off, couldn’t beat people. “Not like I’m the best skater In the world to begin with. Had to slow it down ever more if you can believe it.”
“Showed me there was a way to become better by doing even less. Was very interested in that part of the game.”
I’ve been saying that he was injured going. In to the playoffs but Leon says he had a few things going on but nothing major and it was the one play in game 6 – he was lucky as he “heard it pop”.
There was contemplation of not playing a few times, in particular came 7 – he skated on the other ice and it was awful, could barely stand. Adrenaline kicks in.
Made fun of flames players hacking his left ankle “hey, it’s the other one….”
”Now we’ve got Kadri and Kane going at if……”.
Kadri will turtle even more than Tkachuk. Kane will wipe the ice with him, it’ll make for some good scripts and videos to salivate over!
Ya that’s not something Kadri will engage with other than yapping on his way off the ice
Turtle is Kane’s size, Kadri is a couple of weight divisions down
Kane hasn’t fought at all in a few years – not saying he won’t, I think he clearly will, just that he hasn’t for a while. Kadri has been more active in actual fights in recent years but, of course, the opponents are indeed “slighter” – well, he does have Lawson Crouse on his fight card.
Kane has built a reputation! Nurse hasn’t fought for one forever because the league knows he is not to be trifled with. True tough gets respect! Both these men have the respect of their peers! Both will answer the bell if required!
I also think that it proves he will remain very effective as an older, slower player. I would 100% offer him the full 8 year term on his next deal. Maybe he declines before age 35, but he’ll still be putting up 70+ points at that time.
That is a good point – Marek and Friedman were calling him the best stationary player of all time.
I did find it notable that Drai mentioned how interesting it was to him that he could be better by doing less.
Get ready for more lazy-Drai narratives coming this season…
Sure sign Sam Gagner to a PTO along with a couple others . It doesn’t mean Sam or any other PTO is going to be good enough to make the team . There will be plenty of competition .
I think this is setting Sam up for future employment as coaching not playing
Acquiring Patrick Kane in no way precludes you from upgrading the defence.
Patience is knowing when to strike – not waiting around until something is slapping you in the face.
Do better now. Give yourself more margin for error.
Patrick Kane costs assets and cap space which then can not be used on upgrading the defence.
Neither are currently so finite that there is any kind of practical “either or”.
And you can always make moves.
It’s not a fixed income budget. (and even then you could sell stuff)
Acquiring a player with the ability of Patrick Kane is impossible to pass up.
Defencemen with Kane’s ability come onto the market once a decade. Not even worth dreaming about with 31 other teams chasing that unicorn.
If Kane wants to come and star on more cup winning teams where better else but Edmonton? Colorado also, unfortunately and the last thing Oilers need is Kane on the Avalanche.
It might not matter if the puck doesn’t leave the oppositions defensive zone . It difficult for them to score from there .
Checks to make sure Mike Smith is no longer the goalie…Yep. Checks out!
Smith and Mikko are long gone as Rambo once famously said “let it go” Jack and hopefully Skinner are our Backstops for the next 5 years and become our best tandem since Moog and Fuhr.
He commented on the other team scoring from the defensive zone.
No shame in crushing a hanging curve ball.
I thought it was Elsa who famously said “Let it go”…
We did upgrade the Defence by replacing Mike and Mikko with Jack and Stuart.
If the Oilers got Patty Kane do you really think defense would be important while he’s on the ice with ether McDavid or Draisaitl?
I can’t imagine how lethal that would be for opposing D-man.
Well, McDavid/Leon did get scored last year at a rate of 2.89 G/60 and, over the last three seasons, at a massive rate of 3.38 G/60.
I’m not sure Kane is known as a goal suppressor.
Yes, the point is understood re: “always having the puck” but, in reality, it wouldn’t actually be the case.
Don’t get me wrong, they’d sore many goals but there would be pucks going in both nets I would think.
The smart play is to wait until the trade deadline. Acquiring Kane now does restrict further movement as to acquire Kane will call for the use of assets to move current players as well as assets to acquire Kane. There is not an unlimited supply of assets available! Kane is a rental option only, due to cap restrictions!
Will Kane still be available then though? (is he even available now?)
Since the Oilers are in LTIR all year it makes very little difference if they were to acquire Kane now or at the deadline. They aren’t likely to have more cap space then.
I’m not sure any assets (at least not substantial) are required to move current players (Foegele). The cost to acquire Kane later vs. now, and for his salary retention, may be less later, but I don’t know if there will be a huge difference there either.
IMO, if Kane is willing to come to Edmonton, and an acceptable deal is available to Holland now, he should pull the trigger.
The truth is we don’t know if Kane is available! Kane will determine when and to an extent where he will go. Assuming he is willing to move it will be to a small number of teams of his choosing. Once or if he is willing to move the teams he has picked will be notified with a minimum Chicago is willing to accept and in all likelihood the bidding will start.
Yes, something like that.
Teams could also be talking to the Hawks on a potential deal in advance of him OKing the destination.
I am of the belief that most GM’s are far more proactive than we think! I think it quite possible that the asking price for Kane is already known by the teams that have inquired about his availability.
I imagine that’s very likely.
Recent intel, from Seravellli, is that Patrick Kane has no desire to be traded before the season starts. If he’s going to be traded, he will want it to be closer to the deadline and will decide at that time.
Presuming Seravelli’s intel is correct, well, how would you suggest Holland proceed in acquiring Patrick Kane.
From recent accounts (Seravellli yesterday), nope, he’s not available now and, yup, he MAY be available near the deadline.
I’m aware of that.
Last month there were conflicting reports on whether trade discussions were happening or not, so I think it’s fair to question the recent intel more than normal.
https://www.bleachernation.com/blackhawks/2022/07/29/there-are-conflicting-reports-on-the-status-of-trade-talks-for-patrick-kane/
In any case, I’m going to continue talking about this as if could be a possibility, if that’s cool.
For sure, continue as you wish.
I will continue to respond with the most recent intel from the most reputable insiders, in particular as responses to a direct question:
Q: “Will Kane still be available then though? (is he even available now?)?
My response, the direct answer to both those questions as per the most recent intel (yesterday) from one of the top 2 insiders.
If that’s cool.
“You make me Sing like a bird
Growl like a dog
Howl like a wolf
scream like a witch
and purr like a little pussycat”
Love the CanCon. You grabbed my all time favorite Bill Henderson classic LT.
The youts coming along is improvement from within.
Vets – Koski, Smith, Keith – have moved on.
Many Oilers are in their prime, it’s go time!!!!
Stick tap to KRusty in the vets category after 6 years in this city/
If the Oilers had room for 23 players on the roster, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kris Russell signed for close to league min and on the roster as 7/8D – with Samorukov as the other extra (subject to group health).
I’d have PLENTY of time for Rusty in that role.
Good morning LT
I don’t mind those lines, and it’s a long season, lots will change. However, at first blush, that 4th line is terrible. I know with McDrai munching up minutes, they won’t be on the ice as much, but effective 4th lines can be the final piece to actually winning the Cup.
I am hoping that Holloway comes into camp and blows off the doors. If he can play top 6 with Drai, then McLeod can play 4C and maybe get something going. At worst, move up JP and let Nuge babysit Holloway to break him in. He’s had lots of time babysitting JP already and, by eye, hasn’t really clicked. The 2 old men should be sharing one spot only to keep fresh legs and expected slumps.
Kane/Connor/Yamo
Hyman/Drai/JP
Holloway/RNH/Foegle
Janmark (Benson/Steele/Milano?)/ McLeod /(Roy/Gags)
I don’t agree. Maybe it’s not a strength, but I don’t think Janmark-Ryan-Gagner would be terrible at all.
For some reason folks seem to think Janmark is the dog’s breakfast, but he’s played 3rd (occasionally 2nd) line minutes his entire career.
Gagner is Gagner, but he has some skill and had a decent year in Detroit. He was -7 at 5v5 but Detroit is was terrible (his goal and shot rates were positive relative to team).
Ryan is decent too. He was -4 last year, his underlying numbers were much better than that, and he scored at a solid rate for his minutes.
All 3 of those guys scored 20 or 21 5v5 points last season. That is, each of them provided 3rd line level offense (the 192nd to 288th scoring forwards last year ranged from 7-10 goals and 17-25 points).
Sure it would be nice to have a further upgrade, but IMO the 4th line should be a particular concern at all.
Fair points,
I guess my thought is that each on their own were alright as a complimentary player on a line. Putting all 3 together would be a lot to ask without more talent on the line (ie. McLeod).
For example, I agree about Janmark, if you play him with RNH/Holloway he could probably hold his own. Then Foegle/McLeod/Ryan gives McLeod 2 legit NHLers to play with, while he controls the line.
Yes, splitting them up could definitely make sense too. Foegele/McLeod/Ryan is definitely a good looking line.
In terms of those players being carried by others though, I feel like that would only have occurred when they played up the lineup.
Ryan’s main linemates:
Foegele 397
Shore 180
Nuge 168
Sceviour 152
Kassian 122
McLeod 108
Complementary player when on the 3rd line, not being helped along much by anyone when on the 4th.
Janmark:
Roy 332
Kolesar 255
Dadanov 218
Stephenson 115
Amadio 110
I’d say similar to Ryan, complementary player on 2nd/3rd line, not so much when playing with Kolesar, etc.
Gagner:
Veleno 336
G. Smith 179
Rowney 177
Erne 129
Vrana 127
Stephens 125
Rasmussen 124
Suter 115
He wasn’t getting much help at all. Pretty sure Janmark and Ryan aren’t worse linemates than he got in Detroit.
Anyway, I think these guys have only really been complementary players when they’ve been playing above the 4th line. So hopefully they’ll be able to handle 4th line duties if/when they end up playing together. The line might never end up seeing the light of day though anyway.
Gagner producer those 29 5 on 5 points with his most common linemates being Joe Valeno, Carter Rowney and Givani Smith.
Perhaps Gagner can continue to produce with other very complimentary players as he did this past season?
I’m really enjoying your reasonable… calm your tits posts the last while LT. Seems fair and sound. Although these additions would be great, save the bank account until Spring. At least you collect the interest until then.
I also like that the longest tenured Oiler on the team is simply listed in the lineup as “Nuge”
Could it not be too conservative ? Why wait for spring do it now . If there’s still work to be done in the spring do it . A GM’s work is never done .
Acquisition currency, once spent, remains spent.
It gets damn expensive when every move also requires addition asset currency out in the name of cap space structuring (in addition to regular acquisition cost).
Evander Kane signed to a decent multi year contract is an upgrade from Evander Kane half year playoff rental as well.
Well, I’m not so sure – his playoff goal scoring pace is unsustainable I would say. His regular season play could be repeatable leading to close to 40 goals but that’s likely the ceiling right.
What I want to see if he can continue to be on a line that doesn’t get scored on. His GA/60 was under 2 last season which I don’t think is sustainable either, in particular since he’s never been near there before (except a 17 game season for SJ) and he’s generally in the 2.5-3.5 range.
The goals and points notwithstanding the intangibles Evander brings are what the team has been missing for a long time and that will in my opinion make a huge difference.
I agree, absolutely – just was responding to the position that he’s going to be more productive this coming season’s than last season’s pace.