Summer of ’17

by Lowetide

My list didn’t love the Oilers 2017 draft, but the selections of Kailer Yamamoto and Ostap Safin were home runs on my list. Stuart Skinner? Dmitri Samorukov? Kirill Maksimov? Didn’t make my list.

Two years later, up is down and both Yamamoto and Safin are injury worries. On the other hand, Samorukov has emerged as a legit NHL prospect and Maksimov scored 74 goals in his final two junior seasons. Prospects: You never know.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Dave Tippett on rounding out his coaching staff, fixing Oilers’ special teams and using Connor McDavid
  • New Lowetide: Handicapping the Oilers’ young defencemen and their chances of replacing Andrej Sekera
  • Lowetide: Is Kirill Maksimov progressing as the Edmonton Oilers’ next great hope for a true homegrown sniper?
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers ease pressure on crowded defensive pipeline by trading John Marino to the Penguins
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2021-22 Oilers might look like after their steady build toward contender status
  • Lowetide: Joel Persson is ideally situated to win an opening night roster spot with the Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2019-20 Oilers might look like without trade missteps.
  • Lowetide: Finding the best candidates for the final two spots on the Oilers skill lines in 2019-20.
  • Jonathan Willis: Projecting the Oilers’ opening night lineup, line combinations and more.
  • Lowetide: Does the James Neal acquisition impact Oilers’ prospects in 2019-20?
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
  • Jonathan Willis: Ken Holland ends an ugly situation for the Oilers by trading Milan Lucic for James Neal
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Potential free-agent options for the Oilers in 2020
  • Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
  • Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
  • Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
  • Lowetide: Will the 2019-20 Bakersfield Condors be the Oilers’ best minor-league team ever?
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

Harvest Moon 2017

I ranked 150 names for the 2017 draft, and the Oilers drafted just three of them. Here are my rankings:

No. 11 R Kailer Yamamoto, Spokane Chiefs (WHL). Smart, elusive, offensive. NHLE (36.2).

No. 52 L Ostap Safin, Sparta Praha (Cze). Big forward, good skater, has plus skills. Nice range.

No. 133 LD Dmitri Samorukov, Guelph Storm (OHL). Giant defenseman, two-way type.

It’s been a wild two years for pretty much every prospects drafted by Edmonton in 2017. The changes in fortune have been drastic, good and bad.

Kailer Yamamoto averaged 37 goals per 82 games in the WHL and is averaging 30 AHL goals per 82 games—or he would be if he could stay healthy and score at his 2018-19 minor league pace (10 goals in 27 games). His skills (great hands, passer, can score goals) are a perfect match for Edmonton, but after two years of rushing him it looks like the team will slow play Yamamoto in 2019-20. He scored 5-3-8 in his final 10 games, but was shut down before the playoffs because of a lingering wrist issue. He had his surgery and should be ready this fall. I remain convinced of his ability, but he has to stay healthy and produce offense at five-on-five in the NHL. I’ll be writing about him later this week. I worry about anything to do with the hands for skill players and Yamamoto has only one avenue to the NHL.

Stuart Skinner finished up his junior career with a tremendous run in the regular season and playoffs with the Swift Current Broncos in 2017-18. In his first pro season Skinner was the No. 1 goalie in Wichita (41, 3.16 .903) and was clearly No. 3 in the minors behind Shane Starrett and Dylan Wells. His four playoff games for Bakersfield were eye openers and we’ll see where he lands this coming season. Oilers before Holland were very high on him, the verbal post-draft from Edmonton management was almost at Devan Dubnyk levels.

Dmitri Samorukov has been on the rise pretty much since his draft day. He is big, fast, strong and tough, with shutdown ability. He also delivered impressive offense in his final 83 junior games (20-53-73) that suggests there’s a more complete defender here. I can’t wait to see his progress in Bakersfield. If he proves to be NHL ready, Samorukov is going to pass about one dozen prospects in the next 12 months. Brock Otten told me the day Samorukov was drafted that he had second-round talent.

Ostap Safin was a solid draft prospect, I had him second round and Edmonton landed him in the fourth round. He had a solid draft plus one (26 goals) in the QMJHL but had all kinds of injury issues last season. He was a shell by the playoffs and we’ll see what this season brings. Safin lost an important development year, could the Oilers play him in Wichita in 2019-20? He looked good in his AHL time in 2018.

Kirill Maksimov didn’t make my list and I favor the OHL in a big way. Sometimes these kids surprise you, and Maksimov offered a clue in his draft year with 19 goals in his final 33 games (2016-17). He has since blossomed and should be able to earn work on a skill line in Bakersfield this season. Can he score 20 goals in Bakersfield?

Skyler Brind’Amour was chosen in the sixth round and would fit both my definition of ‘draft and follow’ and ‘draft and college’ for late picks. He’s big and he can skate, but in two BCHL seasons he did not dominate offensively. His college career (Quinnipiac) begins this fall.

Philip Kemp is a big, strong shutdown defenseman with enough skill to play internationally for the USA in feature tournaments. That’s a difficult team to make and likely the top bullet point for this young player. He just completed his sophomore season and has two more Yale winters to go before turning pro. He is a promising prospect.

This draft was the first one featuring Keith Gretzky working in tandem with Bob Green and his group. On draft weekend I loved the Yamamoto pick (I had him just outside the top 10) and Safin, and was curious about the rest. Now, two years later, Samorukov has more momentum than anyone drafted by Edmonton that weekend, and Maksimov enters pro hockey with a clear path to a Bakersfield skill line. Skinner had a good pro debut, Kemp is a quality shutdown prospect. Only Brind’Amour remains in about the same spot as he was on draft day, with several years in college ahead.

Yamamoto and Safin were bitten by injuries and we’ll have to see how things go this winter. If both are healthy, and Yamamoto’s hands remain magic, then we’re going to be talking about this draft a lot between now and spring.

OILERS PROSPECTS

Sean Tierney is pretty amazing with his charts and graphs, and here he brings alive Manny’s (Emmanuel Perry) chances of prospects making the NHL (here). So, Evan Bouchard has a 99 percent chance, Marody 88 and Yamamoto 80. Tyler Benson just 64 percent. Caleb Jones 80 percent, Samorukov 74 percent, Lagesson (45) and Bear (44) less of a chance. You can disregard, but these are two of the brightest minds I know, so the graph is worth pondering.

Another giant brain, Sunil is a friend who just so happens to have a combination of great insight, clarity and the ability to make strong points in 2,000 words or less. Have a read on James Neal.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning, we get started at 10, TSN1260. Jonathan Willis from The Athletic pops in as we’ll discuss all things Oilers, including Jesse Puljujarvi and reasonable expectations for Edmonton this winter. Jonah Birenbaum, senior baseball writer for The Score will chat trade deadline deals, and Corey Masisak from The Athletic NYC will chat about the big Devils-Vegas trade. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter, see you on the radio!

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godot10

Ryan:
Scungilli Slushy,

Actually, it is a curious trade.

The Sens are on the hook for $940k of Callahan’s actual salary.

So the Sens paid almost a million dollars to upgrade a sixth round pick to a fifth and dump $2.5 m in actual money owed to Condon.

So they save a little over a million and a half, but don’t actually have a hockey player in the deal.

It does look like they let the Bolts off pretty easy.

It is over $2 million in savings in real dollars. Condon is owed $3 million actual dollars in the last year of his deal.

The Senators are a cash poor team. $2 million something matters to them.

London Jon

Just reading the Athletic article on who should replace Fenton.

Chiarelli is mentioned as an option by the author ???

The only way Riverboat Pete gets another GM job is if the owner is also in the market for murdering someone.

Every court in the land would let you off on the grounds of insanity if you’d also just hired Peter Chiarelli.

Jaxon

rickithebear: Jaxon/Reg:
In Holland’s 21 seasons young players debut ages
4 – U21
5 – 21yr
6 – 22yr
6 – None u23
He would prefer age 23 or 22 as debut year.

Every manager would prefer that. But only top teams can do that. It was a lot easier for him to keep players in the AHL longer as his NHL team was stacked for 15 years and it was tough and unnecessary for youngsters to crack the lineup. Everyone talks about the ‘Detroit Model’ of development, but that model only worked because they had a dynasty-like team, and much of that time when players were simmering in the minors was when he had no cap limit.

’12-’13: D Lashoff 31GP as a 22 yr old.
’13-’14: RW Jurco 36GP as a 21 yr old. C Sheahan 42GP as a 22 yr old.
’15-’16: C Larkin 80GP as a 19 yr old. Athanasiou 37GP as a 21 yr old.
’17-18: LW Bertuzzi 48GP as a 22 yr old.
’18-’19: C Rasmussen 62GP as a 19 yr old. D Cholowski 52GP as a 20 yr old. D Horonek 46GP as a 21 yr old.

3 of 4 under 21s came in the last 4 years.
3 of 5 21 yr olds came in the last 6 years.
3 of 6 22 yr olds came in the last 7 years.

Jaxon

rickithebear: Brodziak C
These 4 have speed.

Are you sure your intel on Brodziak is correct? I didn’t see him fast last season. In fact, I saw him a step behind the play. He may have been fast when he was younger, but I don’t think that is the case anymore and it may be the reason he doesn’t make the team this year.

rickithebear

Tippett saying Russell at LD
Larrson 1st comp RD
Benning 2nd comp RD
Persson 3rd comp RD

Makes for interesting LD usage.

rickithebear

Jaxon/Reg:
In Holland’s 21 seasons young players debut ages
4 – U21
5 – 21yr
6 – 22yr
6 – None u23
He would prefer age 23 or 22 as debut year.

Reports of Puljujarvi return are interesting.

In sept:
Puljujarvi is 2 years from 23
Benson is 2 years from 23
Yamamotto is 2 year from 23
Mcleod is 3 years from 23
Lavoie is 4 years from 23

Holland said “ we are making moves this year to set-up down the road without sacrificing this year.”

10 evg scorers in 1 of last 2 seasons
Mcdavid C
Draisaitl RW, C, LW
RNH C
Neal LW, RW
Kassian RW
Chaisson LW,RW
Archibald RW
Granlund LW, RW
Puljujarvi LW,RW
Khaira LW,C
Holland wants double digit scorers.
That is 10 he knows have got 10 @ even

Jurco LW,RW
Nygard LW
Haas C
Brodziak C
These 4 have speed.

It is nice to think that all the U23 forwards ( but Puljujarvi) may cook some more in AHL for 1 to 2 more years.

No more
If he is ready.
Maybe he can

Yes!

Forward speed driving entry & penetration while maintaining a 3-2-1 structure with dmen as 4th, 5th uncovered HD shot options.

Limited free path to HD area risk.

Reja

Jaxon: Lavoie has good speed as well.
Kerr at Last Word on Hockey: “Lavoie is a strong skater for his size. He has a good first step and acceleration, as well as the top end speed to pull away from defenders and create breakaways and odd-man rushes. He also has very good agility and edgework, giving him the ability to beat defenders both with and without the puck. Lavoie is tough to knock off the puck, with excellent balance. He has a wide skating stance, giving him a low centre of gravity. His stride is powerful…”

Steve Kourianous – Draft analyst: “A puck-possessing machine with speed, size and excellent awareness in the offensive zone, … By keeping his feet moving while operating with his head on a swivel, Lavoie keeps opponents guessing and rarely do you see him make a telegraphed play… Lavoie is an excellent skater with above-average straight line speed and enough agility to weave around or fake opponents out of position. He is extremely strong on his skates and can maintain puck possession under physical pressure, using his long reach and wide stance to shield the puck.”

Hannah Stuart – theScoreMay 1st: “He’s another prospect with NHL size, already standing 6-foot-4, and he’s quite agile and fast considering.”

We finally caught a break he’ll be the steal of the entire draft. I can’t wait for him driving to the net and collecting garbage goals off rebounds with his nice hands and big body.

Jaxon

rickithebear:
LT:
Lost the post on skating I had done around 5:30.
Forgot to save what I had typed.
Page logs out and data is lost otherwise.

Here we go again.

LT: speed is critical to today’s game.
How many fast skating forwards do we need on a line 1,2,3. For strong entry numbers.
3 is a want.
Puck tracking data will help us.

What do we have for skaters on our team.
Mcdavid
Draisaitl
Kassian
All I can remember is RNH catching players on the back check!

It is a bad memory day.
So ref media sources.

Archibald: per AZcentral, “showed his speed, grit, willingness.” Per C&B “ isn’t big….. good skater”

Granlund: per D. sedan “PK, PP, up a goal, down a goal….. can play in all situations. HE CAN SKATE, he can shoot, he can pass….. he does it all well.

Jurco: Detroit news ( per Gerald Gallant) “his skill level is 2nd to none…… using his exceptional skating” well we know why Holland gave him his chance at (20 yr)

Nygard: per C&B “ ending the intrigue – were SHL speedster Nygard would end up”

Haas: per elite prospect “ excellent skater……. good top end speed…… can make end to end rushes….. can lead a shut down line.”

Brodziak: Oiler Release, “ you can see his skating is top notch”

Khaira: Per Mcurdy Edm Journal: “WOW, he found a whole new gear…… certainly looks fast in this setting……. big man with powerful stride”
I did not know he had heel & back issues all last season.
Healthy year hopefully!

Cave: nada?

Neal: “ not a traffic cone on skates ,yet”

Chaisson: “ I am never going to be the greatest skater”

Gagner: Per Edm sun, “ if he is able to keep up skating wise…….he is going to be”

Holland added speed.

Yes LT: clear issues for Maroody & Benson.

Lavoie has good speed as well.
Kerr at Last Word on Hockey: “Lavoie is a strong skater for his size. He has a good first step and acceleration, as well as the top end speed to pull away from defenders and create breakaways and odd-man rushes. He also has very good agility and edgework, giving him the ability to beat defenders both with and without the puck. Lavoie is tough to knock off the puck, with excellent balance. He has a wide skating stance, giving him a low centre of gravity. His stride is powerful…”

Steve Kourianous – Draft analyst: “A puck-possessing machine with speed, size and excellent awareness in the offensive zone, … By keeping his feet moving while operating with his head on a swivel, Lavoie keeps opponents guessing and rarely do you see him make a telegraphed play… Lavoie is an excellent skater with above-average straight line speed and enough agility to weave around or fake opponents out of position. He is extremely strong on his skates and can maintain puck possession under physical pressure, using his long reach and wide stance to shield the puck.”

Hannah Stuart – theScoreMay 1st: “He’s another prospect with NHL size, already standing 6-foot-4, and he’s quite agile and fast considering.”

Jaxon

Jaxon:
Maksimov’s goal-scoring skills are impressive as is his consistency. He kept up a 40 goal pace for his last 158 games in the OHL. I’m looking forward to seeing how he does in training camp and pre-season. So many interesting prospects and veterans to follow this fall. Can’t wait for it to start.

Just as a comparison, Lavoie scored at a 42 goal pace this season if you include his playoff run. 20g in 23gp in the playoffs and 32g in 62gp in the regular season for 52g in 85 games. He also scored 30g in 68gp the previous regular season and 3g in 9 playoff games. Total as a 17 and 18-year-old: 85 goals in 162 games for a 36 goal pace over a typical 68 game season sustained over 162 games in his draft-1 and draft seasons.

I can’t wait to follow his season as well to see how he progresses. It’s rare and highly unlikely, and probably not advisable, but there is an outside chance a late first-round player / early second-round player makes the team ala David Pastrnak (#25 overall), David Perron (QMJHL 51g in 87 GP drafted #26 overall), or Ryan O’Reilly (16G in 73GP, drafted #33 overall). Stranger things…

A speedy sniper on the wing may be what this team needs most.

Ryan

Scungilli Slushy: You’ve never been broke it seems, billionaire wise

Haha, every half a million counts, right? I mean it all adds up, lol.

Seriously though, a buyout for Condon would have cost a million per year for two years. I guess this saves Eugene a million over a buyout. He might be over his injuries too.

If he’s that hard up for a million bucks, why did he sign Anders Nilsson this summer for $2.8m in real dollars? (2.8 then 2.4).

rickithebear

Scungilli Slushy: I have a screenshot of a game against the Sharks from some site that had all 6 Oilers russelling in front of a helpless goalie. Funny and not.

Edit 5 players and the goalie

You will see a lot of 5 skaters collapsing to HD area from
CHI in 10, 13, 15 playoffs
Bos in 11 playoffs
LAK in 12, 14 playoffs
Pit in 16,17 playoffs
WAS, VGK in 18 playoffs
STL in 19 playoffs

Does that make it Bad which is what you seem to be suggesting.

Good plywood wins you cups! (the thing Red says)

Scungilli Slushy

OriginalPouzar: I’m not convinced that trying to learn a new position, that is known to be “harder” and comes with more responsibility, is the right course for a struggling player looking to establish himself as an NHL player

Agreed, but in his case he does C things when playing as wing, maybe it’s a hack on him learning .

He chases the puck and likes to carry it exactly as pre draft, after initiating entries moves into a supporting position.

Unlikely for sure.

rickithebear

LT:
Lost the post on skating I had done around 5:30.
Forgot to save what I had typed.
Page logs out and data is lost otherwise.

Here we go again.

LT: speed is critical to today’s game.
How many fast skating forwards do we need on a line 1,2,3. For strong entry numbers.
3 is a want.
Puck tracking data will help us.

What do we have for skaters on our team.
Mcdavid
Draisaitl
Kassian
All I can remember is RNH catching players on the back check!

It is a bad memory day.
So ref media sources.

Archibald: per AZcentral, “showed his speed, grit, willingness.” Per C&B “ isn’t big….. good skater”

Granlund: per D. sedan “PK, PP, up a goal, down a goal….. can play in all situations. HE CAN SKATE, he can shoot, he can pass….. he does it all well.

Jurco: Detroit news ( per Gerald Gallant) “his skill level is 2nd to none…… using his exceptional skating” well we know why Holland gave him his chance at (20 yr)

Nygard: per C&B “ ending the intrigue – were SHL speedster Nygard would end up”

Haas: per elite prospect “ excellent skater……. good top end speed…… can make end to end rushes….. can lead a shut down line.”

Brodziak: Oiler Release, “ you can see his skating is top notch”

Khaira: Per Mcurdy Edm Journal: “WOW, he found a whole new gear…… certainly looks fast in this setting……. big man with powerful stride”
I did not know he had heel & back issues all last season.
Healthy year hopefully!

Cave: nada?

Neal: “ not a traffic cone on skates ,yet”

Chaisson: “ I am never going to be the greatest skater”

Gagner: Per Edm sun, “ if he is able to keep up skating wise…….he is going to be”

Holland added speed.

Yes LT: clear issues for Maroody & Benson.

Gerta Rauss

Scungilli Slushy: Perhaps showing how desperate Melnyk is to shed cash salary

I think that’s it , yeah, and Brisebois read the market well

Scungilli Slushy

northerndancer: There were times over the past few years where I thought “why don’t we just stack all 6 guys in the goal, maybe McDavid on the edge. Puck hits the “goalie” and out bursts mdD, down the ice and on his way.It would have been more entertaining and perhaps even more effective.

I have a screenshot of a game against the Sharks from some site that had all 6 Oilers russelling in front of a helpless goalie. Funny and not.

Edit 5 players and the goalie

Scungilli Slushy

Gerta Rauss: I understand the economics of the transaction, my point was that cap space is trading at a premium this summer and the relative price paid by Tampa seems below market value

Perhaps showing how desperate Melnyk is to shed cash salary .

Or Dorion has Chiarelli instincts

Scungilli Slushy

Ryan:
Scungilli Slushy,

Actually, it is a curious trade.

The Sens are on the hook for $940k of Callahan’s actual salary.

So the Sens paid almost a million dollars to upgrade a sixth round pick to a fifth and dump $2.5 m in actual money owed to Condon.

So they save a little over a million and a half, but don’t actually have a hockey player in the deal.

It does look like they let the Bolts off pretty easy.

You’ve never been broke it seems, billionaire wise ?

Ryan

Scungilli Slushy,

Actually, it is a curious trade.

The Sens are on the hook for $940k of Callahan’s actual salary.

So the Sens paid almost a million dollars to upgrade a sixth round pick to a fifth and dump $2.5 m in actual money owed to Condon.

So they save a little over a million and a half, but don’t actually have a hockey player in the deal.

It does look like they let the Bolts off pretty easy.

New Improved Darkness

Slightly OT, but a friend with shiny new Blu-rays of same gave me both halves of Bill’s Rotting Corpse (on DVD) so we took another spin, even though I had mixed feelings the first time around.

Once again, it didn’t inspire me to any great thoughts. During the Michael Madsen sequence, it really drove home Donald’s best ever decision: staying dry. Don can’t ever have been more than a 1000 gloriously antiseptic bottles away from becoming a bouncer in a down-and-out titty bar, living out his lonely existence in some desiccated backwater of New Mexico, with his priceless Hattori Hanzo—which he often denies still owning—stuffed into his golf bag. Strangely enough, with that extra “club” in his bag, he’s never carded worse than a 68, no matter who he plays with (69 is a dirty number, and as for the 70s, let’s not even go there).

———

Madsen sure nails the cagey quarter-coot on the back ninety-proof.

Budd: That woman, deserves her revenge and … we deserve to die. But then again, so does she. So, I guess we’ll just see. Won’t we?

That dry, taciturn New Mexico air would turn anyone into a philosopher, given long enough.

Actual film location is in between Los Angeles and Los Vegas.

It’s about 50 miles east to find the trailer of Budd (Michael Madsen), parked at at Mule Canyon in the Calico Hills, north from the I-15, about 20 miles east of Barstow.

New Mexico is way on the other side of Petrified Forest National Park, itself situated on the southern edge of Navajo Nation. Historically, from time to time, some Navajos would show up in Petrified Forest and dig an 800°F impromptu tandoori oven in some small glade. But the forest never went up in smoke, because the Navajo have 16 distinct words for fielding hot, dry, iridescent embers; they really know their blazing bushmanship.

Always a good idea to lick your fingertips before you Bobby Orr a diving snag to Navajo low glove.

Petrified Forest is not amused.

———

Japanese codebreaker: I could just swear they’re discussing the second-stage sear indicators of pheasant tikka masala.

Japanese officer: Hai, they probably are. Now try again.

Gerta Rauss

Scungilli Slushy: The Sens save the cash on the Condon contract and the Lightning gain cap. Callaghan I imagine will be paid by the insurance company. Makes sense to me

I understand the economics of the transaction, my point was that cap space is trading at a premium this summer and the relative price paid by Tampa seems below market value

northerndancer

rickithebear:
Scully JP at C is something I posted as recently as 2 weeks ago on here.
His low shooting %
But penetration speed and passing skills scream C.

Half way thru 1 st season we saw a Def responsible 2 way player showing up.
It screamed C.
His 19 yr old season evg production being superior to M. Tkachuks had me thinking about what he could be as a winger.
We still have 1-2 years before Holland wants to know what he really is.

Thanks Ricki…. I agree about JP. He is a driver and there were bursts of that over the last 2 seasons. i can’t remember who said that he needed to be a driver, a puck carrier, but I saw them correctly. His confidence seemed to grow when he was playing with lesser carriers like Strome but when he was paired with good carriers he seemed to get in the way, go offside, etc.

northerndancer

I share the enthusiasm for this year’s camp. Some real talent in the works. It must be damn hard to project the best out of the pack when the regulars, the established players, are living and dying in 3/4 time.

northerndancer

Scungilli Slushy: Maybe they should ice 2 forwards and play both goalies and time. Out of the box so to speak

There were times over the past few years where I thought “why don’t we just stack all 6 guys in the goal, maybe McDavid on the edge. Puck hits the “goalie” and out bursts mdD, down the ice and on his way. It would have been more entertaining and perhaps even more effective.

Bling

I’m willing to write off JP’s last season as injury related.

His other two seasons were pretty good. If he is healthy and playing with decent players, I expect a modest break-out, 15G and 20A, something like that.

Bling

I didn’t notice Marody being a bad skater in his short stint here, and I was impressed by his puck sense. He has vision and can take and make a pass.

OriginalPouzar

ScungilliSlushy: T

Teach Jesse faceoffs and shelter him at C , use Granlund or Cave as the D zone C. I’m convinced it’ll work.

I’m not convinced that trying to learn a new position, that is known to be “harder” and comes with more responsibility, is the right course for a struggling player looking to establish himself as an NHL player

rickithebear

“Kris Russell is the best Plywood in front of the net in the game.”

Ndancer, thanks for the plywood joke.

Perfect description of what Russell does.

Elite 0% Corsi Dmen: the perfect Plywood!

rickithebear

Scully JP at C is something I posted as recently as 2 weeks ago on here.
His low shooting %
But penetration speed and passing skills scream C.

Half way thru 1 st season we saw a Def responsible 2 way player showing up.
It screamed C.
His 19 yr old season evg production being superior to M. Tkachuks had me thinking about what he could be as a winger.
We still have 1-2 years before Holland wants to know what he really is.

rickithebear

northerndancer: nods to woodguy to check his maths on that one

He does not understand the full def game.

Their are 2 forms of def measure.
1. 2 shot density areas.
I first identified late 60’s early 70’s as a young child. 45-50 yr ago.
Low danger ( perimeter) and High danger. Math was 05-06, same time as “2006 shot quality.”
HD area matched.
They failed to understand HD area.

2. 2 shot qualities,
I identified 45 yr ago watching 7 yr old Ronnie Gunvilles table hockey goalie movement.
Closed shot (0% chance of goal),
Open shot (> 0% chance of a goal)

0% corsi would be plywood.
More specifically K. Russell is the best Dman plywood in the game.

Fuck that is the perfect description.
Who does not think putting plywood in front of net is not a good way to reduce GA.

If you are seeking the plywood in front of net affect.
Russell #1
De Haas #2
For 17-18
I do not have 18-19 numbers.
Cancer taking up my time.

Scungilli Slushy

northerndancer: and maybe a sheet of plywood.

Maybe they should ice 2 forwards and play both goalies and time. Out of the box so to speak

Scungilli Slushy

Gerta Rauss: I was thinking the same thing

That’s a whole lot of effort to upgrade a 6th round pick to a 5th round pick

The Sens save the cash on the Condon contract and the Lightning gain cap. Callaghan I imagine will be paid by the insurance company. Makes sense to me. Holland could do something like that as mentioned with Pageau, but Sammy is a right shot that can play centre and take RS faceoffs.

Brodziak is the only other right shot C (Gagner plays wing now but he has years under his belt at C). Teach Jesse faceoffs and shelter him at C , use Granlund or Cave as the D zone C. I’m convinced it’ll work.

When looking at line combos it seems few teams run 4 lines at least reg season. 2 scoring lines (your top 6, and if you’re lucky and have O Reilly you also have a scoring shut down line), a defensive shut down line that coaches want for critical D zone work they trust, and the last 3 that may be Palookas or youth depending on the cycle of the team and the team philosophy.

northerndancer

northerndancer: and maybe a sheet of plywood.

nods to woodguy to check his maths on that one

northerndancer

Scungilli Slushy: I believe these types of D are what win championships. It’s nice to have a real offensive firecracker, but those that dominate both ends of the ice are hen’s teeth.

Give me two guys that can move the puck on PP and a stable of quality defensive D that can move and make a good pass and Cup!

and maybe a sheet of plywood.

Woodguy v2.0

Lowetide: Woot! I’ll have a pen and foolscap at the ready!

I broke my pencil.

Scungilli Slushy

OriginalPouzar: I have been pumping Lagesson since I saw him at his first Penticton tournament a few years back – he was a MUCH better skater and puck mover than I had anticipated and knowing his plus defensive game, I took an interest.

I personally put him in the same tier as Jones – different type of player, obviously, but just as NHL ready and as much potential to impact the NHL lineup.

Jones likely “makes the team” ahead of Lagesson due to his skating/puck moving and previous experience, however, Willie will get the call and, once he does, he may never look back. He still needs to prove it but I believe he is ready for 3LD and also that he will develop in to a 22 minute 2LD.

He’s a “new age” Jason Smith or Adam Larsson – an aggressive and physical defence first defender who can also skate and move the puck.I think he’s built for the new NHL.

I believe these types of D are what win championships. It’s nice to have a real offensive firecracker, but those that dominate both ends of the ice are hen’s teeth.

Give me two guys that can move the puck on PP and a stable of quality defensive D that can move and make a good pass and Cup!

OriginalPouzar

Lowetide: Yeah, I think we throw around lack of speed as a limiter but Marody dominated the AHL and played 41 NHL minutes (and had five takeaways), plus a possession number of 51 percent. All agree it’s too small a sample size but he did enough for us to want to see him again imo.

I talk about “slow boots” probably as little as anyone in this community but, to me, it was very apparent as a limiting factor during his short stint. Again, 6:50/game with 4th line and tweeners likely added to the visual.

I agree, he was some dominant at the AHL level, both driving offence and generally in the possession game, that more looks are 100% warranted.

I didn’t watch 5 U of M games post trade and talk about his surprising skill for months to give up on the guy after less than 40 minutes of ice in his rookie pro year.

OriginalPouzar

Reja: I agree. I could be wrong for me he was just thrown in the line-up with no plan for him.
When he does get anothershot Ithink Tippett will handle him differently.

Tippett was clear that one of his main attributes is “putting players in a position to succeed” and, to me, that means not playing means generally consistent linemates (although that’s for all players) but, for a guy like Marody, playing him with some skill and not fourth line with Brodziak and Hass. Whether that means Nuge as his 3C or him as a 3C with the likes of Gagner, etc. I don’t know.

A guy like Joe G. can be played on the 4th line as, although he scored alot of goals this past year in the AHL, he’s a much older prospect and i see his potential as a bottom 6 “energy guy” and not on a skill line.

Reja

Lowetide: He was up around the time of the coaching change iirc that’s a bad time to be a young player.

I agree. I could be wrong for me he was just thrown in the line-up with no plan for him.
When he does get another shot I think Tippett will handle him differently.

OriginalPouzar

Ca$h-McMoney!:
CHIARELLI AS GM OF THE WILD.

If I think about it hard enough it might come true.

100% plagiarized from a poster on another platform (Roughingafterthewhistle) from a posted named bchippie:

He named his son, PJ Fenton, as the head of the scouting department. PJ had only 3 years of scouting experience. Coincidentally, those 3 years were in Edmonton under Peter Chiarelli and Fenton just recently hired Chiarelli’s brother and nephew to play a role in the Wild’s scouting department. As far as the blunders that he did during his one year in Minny?, there are lots.

OriginalPouzar

defmn: More than a few reminders this summer that teams trade contracts – not players.

I wonder if this become a point in the CBA negotiations?

With that said, is there a negative for either side?

OriginalPouzar

John Chambers:
godot10,

The same logic can be applied from the Flames’ viewpoint regarding the Neal – Lucic swap.

With the $750k retained salary, Calgary will owe Lucic just $13M for the remaining 4 years of his contract. Meanwhile they ridded themselves of the obligation to pay James Neal $23M.

From Calgary’s perspective they save $500k annually in cap hit and $10M in actual money.

A reminder of the benefits of the Oilers’ owner.

OriginalPouzar

Darth Tu: What the fork are Tampa going to do with the 5 gajillion goalies they now have under their control? Are they terrified a “Vegas” situation is about to occur?

I’d like to POINT out that I’m confident the deal has little to do with Condon and all to do with acquiring cap space.

OriginalPouzar

JohnChambers: Marody

Very likely the case with respect to knowledge of deficient skills, however, at the same time, did Cooper not know that skating was the main thing that could crater an NHL career? Presumably he’s been working on his skating year after year. I’m not sure how much “better” he’s going to get.

With respect to Marody vs. Hass, I’m quite confdient that Marody has NHL level skill but not necessarily boots. On the other hand, from all accounts Hass’ skating is NHL level but I’m not sure about the rest of his game.

Will be fun to see these battles.

Reja

John Chambers:
OriginalPouzar,

Giving Marody a few games in the NHL last year was probably very instructive to the player in demonstrating the weaknesses in his game that he’s had ~9 months to acknowledge and address.

I imagine we’ll see a faster Cooper Marody, one who is competing directly with Gaetan Haas for a job as an NHL Centre.

I never noticed Cooper good bad or slow they never gave him enough minutes.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Ca$h-McMoney!,

I trust we’ll all do our parts, and light a prayer candle. Or five.