The Boys are Back in Town

The WHA Oilers were tough to follow, you needed to buy The Hockey News all summer and into fall to even have a fighting chance to know the roster. The 1972 team, the Alberta Oilers, had a large percentage of locals, many of whom played for the Edmonton Oil Kings in the 1960’s. My favorite player in those early years (aside from Al Hamilton) was a winger named Rusty Patenaude. He was smaller, very skilled, could score goals in bunches. You would have liked him.

You know the Wayne Gretzky story, but do you know how much he helped in his one WHA season? In 1977-78, the Oilers (coached by Glen Sather) finished fifth overall, had a 309-307 goal differential and got punted in the first round.

The following year, with 99, the team finished first overall, had a 340-266 goal differential and went all the way to the finals. It was the very beginning of the golden decade of Edmonton hockey.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, we are celebrating our 2-year anniversary this week. To mark the occasion, you can get 40% off subscriptions until Sept. 19 here.

  • New Jonathan Willis: Predicting the winners of the Oilers’ top-six and top-nine forward jobs out of camp
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: In, out or on the bubble: Breaking down positional battles at Oilers camp
  • New Lowetide: Evan Bouchard and the Calder Trophy: The Oilers’ pursuit of the elusive rookie award
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Alex Chiasson prepares to return to scoring form for Edmonton Oilers
  • Jonathan Willis: Kyle Brodziak defied the odds, and then the Oilers, to carve out a significant NHL career
  • Lowetide: Can Mikko Koskinen and Mike Smith stop enough pucks for the Oilers?
  • Lowetide: Shutdown success by Darnell Nurse and Adam Larsson is a key for the Oilers in 2019-20.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Even if he’s unsure about his return, Oilers’ Connor McDavid looks and sounds like his old self
  • Lowetide: RE 19-20: How can the Oilers’ bottom six close the gap in goal differential?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Kailer Yamamoto and Tyler Benson address respective highs and lows as Oilers rookie camp begins
  • Jonathan Willis: Riley Sheahan is a prudent signing by the Oilers in more ways than one
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers’ defensive hopes will rest on the new shutdown pair of Darnell Nurse and Adam Larsson
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: With Evan Bouchard as the headliner, here are the players to watch at Oilers rookie camp
  • Lowetide: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and the configuration of the Oilers second line
  • Lowetide: Connor McDavid’s 2019-20: Pushing for 50 goals while Dave Tippett loads up the Oilers’ top line
  • Lowetide: Estimating reasonable expectations for the 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers: A difficult journey
  • Jonathan Willis: How much money will Darnell Nurse make on his next NHL contract?
  • Corey Pronman: Oilers No. 9 farm system.
  • Lowetide: Oilers coach Dave Tippett might have to take drastic action in order to find a second outscoring line in 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

PLAYING FAVOURITES

The first player who I cheered for among the new Oilers was young Mark Messier, who was rambunctious and disruptive and fast. He was not an impact offensive player as a rookie, he was tied for No. 154 among forwards in points in 1979-80. He was No. 25 in PIMs (120) and I swear to you he did something in every game to get noticed. He had a different look about him, tall and thin, young but already hardened. Square jaw, always in motion, determined. Filthy. My Dad called guys like him ‘hoods’ and I think the Russians thought he was a hood, for sure.

In 1980-81, my favourite rookie was Jari Kurri. He was a perfect two-way player, great anticipation, and smooth at everything. Kurri skated slumped over a little, made him ready for passing and a quick, accurate shot. My number one memory, the one I’ll think about when drifting some day, is the clincher in 1984: Islanders are heading to the bench, 99 is heading the center ice, and Kurri retrieves the puck and sends a dart to Gretzky. He scored and the franchise won its first Stanley later that night. Everyone remembers the goal, I remember the pass. You should always remember the pass.

Glenn Anderson and Paul Coffey joined the party same year, Anderson was fearless. He drove to the net and crashed it, shrapnel everywhere, and scored plenty. If Gretzky was the brains of the operation, and Messier the heart, Kurri the conscience, Anderson was the swagger. Also filthy.

Paul Coffey was the misfit, the beautiful skater with elite offensive ability who the coach could never truly love because defense. At least that’s my take. Coffey was a stunning talent but played in an era where expectations required defenders to bleed and break their nose annually.

Charlie Huddy was also a favourite, he was smart as a whip and made good decisions. He also skated slumped over a little, could carry the puck up and pass it too. Huddy was physical and durable (he took a pounding) and I thought he’d stay forever. I was shocked when they lost him in the 1991 Minnesota expansion draft, Oilers were never the same.

The last time I really questioned Glen Sather came when the Oilers drafted Grant Fuhr in 1981. Andy Moog had just emerged! Well, Fuhr turned out well and after that, for basically two decades, Slats could sell damn near anything to the local fans. By the third Stanley, he was a made man in our town.

Each fall, you’d get a look at the newcomers. Jaroslav Pouzar was a tank, an absolute load, and he was effective. Randy Gregg played hockey like a doctor: Careful, detailed, precise. Marc Habscheid had talent but faced an Everest depth chart.

You should have seen Esa Tikkanen as a young player. He was half bubble of plumb but in a good way. If you watched the games on television, you would just see Tikkanen being held back by a ref, while some poor schmoo was trying to get back onto the ice. Tikkanen would have run him along the boards, tipped him over and deposited him in the nearest bench. Absolute chaos, no one (including the Oilers) was safe. I loved him.

I cheered for Selmar Odelein, he didn’t make it. Injuries ate up his career. He was a quality junior. Wayne Van Dorp had a Dutch name and was a giant, he lasted just a few games.

Kelly Buchberger ran out of step with all the skill, but he was a game rooster and fans loved his energy. ‘Take em wide, Bucky’ they’d scream, and that was his move.

All of that in basically a decade, in the same amount of time it has taken us to observe Taylor Hall, Nuge, Yak, Darnell, Leon, McDavid, JP and the rest as first time visitors to training camp.

Remember it. Enjoy it. These are good times. Someone attending training camp this autumn will catch on and perhaps become your favourite player. I saw Shawn Horcoff shadow a center and tie up his stick as the pass went through the slot and out of danger in a preseason game, fall 2000. He was always a favourite of mine.

There are memories to be gathered that will last you a lifetime. Hockey, the best hockey, is returning. The boys are back in town.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, we kickstart the weekend on TSN1260. Lots of hockey and football talk, we begin with Steve Lansky from BigMouthSports and a discussion of Bianca Andreescu, Holland/Tippett in Edmonton and the Marner contract. Julien Edlow from Draft Kings will help us tee up the NFL weekend and Matt Iwanyk from TSN1260 will drop in to discuss CFL weekend and the Oilers. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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177 Responses to "The Boys are Back in Town"

  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    Per Rishaug:

    Group A

    Koskinen, S. Starrett, Wells

    Bear, Benning, Desharnais, Klefbom, Lowe, Manning, Persson, K. Russell

    Archibald, Benson, Currie, Draisaitl, Esposito, Gambardella, Kassian, Khaira, Malone, McDavid, McLeod, Peluso, Safin, Sheahan, Yamamoto

    ——————————-

    Group B

    Rodrigue, Skinner, Smith

    Bouchard, Day, Jones, Kulevich, Lagesson, Larsson, Nurse, Samorukov

    Cave, Chiasson, Gagner, Granlund, Haas, Hebig, Jurco, Lavoie, Maksimov, Marody, Neal, Nugent-Hopkins, Nygard, P. Russell, B. Starrett, Vesey

  2. nvan97 says:

    Would Honka for Jesse be fair value? I’m not sure the Oilers need what Honka brings but maybe there’s a deal to be made around those 2.

  3. stevebergeron97 says:

    Big shout out to LT for guiding us through another long playoffless offseason!

  4. stevebergeron97 says:

    nvan97:
    Would Honka for Jesse be fair value? I’m not sure the Oilers need what Honka brings but maybe there’s a deal to be made around those 2.

    NOOOOOOO!

  5. Wonder Llama says:

    Any love for Petr Klima and that well-rested overtime goal?

    Tikkanen was always a favorite of mine, too. Loved his TV interviews (and Fuhr’s).

    I spent a good 30 seconds trying to visualize “a half bubble of plumb” before I realized you just forgot an “F.”

  6. Darryl8843 says:

    A name I could never forget was Len “Lightning “ Lunde. Al McCann gave him that nickname when he called play by play the first year. It was memorable as his speediest days already passed him by.

  7. jonrmcleod says:

    Looks like plan A for the defense is

    Klefbom – Persson
    Nurse – Larsson
    Russell – Benning

  8. Brantford Boy says:

    Thanks for this LT… great trip down memory lane… for me, this goes back to the rink and closing your eyes at centre and throwing sticks on the ice to determine teams… then we’d all fight for who was going to be which Oiler in the game… I always just chose Coffey as I played defense and let the battle continue for who would be Gretzky, Messier, Kurri etc. I remember my Dad taking me to the local hockey rink where Gretzky practiced before that final WHA year… I just remember him saying, this kid is going to be a great hockey player… I probably had a toy in my hand or something I was so young. Those Oilers teams were tough to follow on TV back in Ontario, until playoff time a few years later when they’d pick up the broadcast, then it was off to school really tired. Cheers!

  9. tileguy says:

    stevebergeron97:
    Big shout out to LT for guiding us through another long playoffless offseason!

    Here here.

  10. Chico21 says:

    I met Tikkanen at the Viking cup in Camrose when I was 12. Didn’t know who he was at the time but man I loved that guy as a player. Game 7 against Calgary in 1990 was probably the pinnacle of his career with the hat trick. As for Jesse how about a trade with the Islanders for Ho Sang. Seems like an even value and a new start for both players.

  11. godot10 says:

    nvan97:
    Would Honka for Jesse be fair value? I’m not sure the Oilers need what Honka brings but maybe there’s a deal to be made around those 2.

    NO!!!

    Honka could not find a spot on a decimated Dallas defense last year. Taylor Fedun played over him. Ruff, Hitchcock, and the new Montgomery/Nelson/Bowness group have found him lacking.

    A 4th opinion is NOT needed, especially not for a valuable asset like Puljarvi.

    If you want to throw away a 7th round pick on him, I would still complain.

  12. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Over the years, I have “fawned” less on the legend of the acumen behind the 80’s Oilers other acquisitions (but still loved them as Oilers).

    – Full credit for Mess, Gretz, Coffey, Kurri, Fuhr, Anderson (the core).

    – But I’ve pivoted away from the “Sather was a genius for all the other moves”, towards “With the core Sather assembled, lots of players would have success in the other roles (Huddy, Pouzar, MacT, Lowe, Gregg, etc)”

    – Put another way, I think all the guys I mention are just guys, who on other rosters don’t make the difference. Yes they worked hard and their keep, but much easier to be “great” when you are surrounded by-all stars in their prime. Plus the Oil were the best, so they got the cream of the rest to come there (its always like that in every professional sport).

  13. godot10 says:

    Chico21:
    I met Tikkanen at the Viking cup in Camrose when I was 12. Didn’t know who he was at the time but man I loved that guy as a player. Game 7 against Calgary in 1990 was probably the pinnacle of his career with the hat trick. As for Jesse how about a trade with the Islanders for Ho Sang. Seems like an even value and a new start for both players.

    NO!!!!!

    Puljujarvi has value. Why do people want to trade him for players like Honka and Ho Sang who don’t?

  14. Yeti says:

    nvan97:
    Would Honka for Jesse be fair value? I’m not sure the Oilers need what Honka brings but maybe there’s a deal to be made around those 2.

    As much as I wanted the Oil to draft Honka, I wouldn’t do that deal at this time.

  15. Durag says:

    Buchberger in Game 4 against Dallas. It took Cujo and Marchant doing what they did to steal the limelight, but the Bucky snipe was legendary.

    edit: I just went and watched the highlights of that comeback. Andy Moog…whatcha doing bud?

  16. JJS says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Over the years, I have “fawned” less on the 80’s Oilers acquisitions.

    – Full credit for Mess, Gretz, Coffey, Kurri, Fuhr, Anderson (the core).

    – But I’ve pivoted away from the “Sather was a genius for all the other moves”, towards “With the core Sather assembled, lots of players would have success in the other roles (Huddy, Pouzar, MacT, Lowe, Gregg, etc)”

    – Put another way, I think all the guys I mention are just guys, who on other rosters don’t make the difference.Yes they worked hard and their keep, but much easier to be “great” when you are surrounded by-all stars in their prime.Plus the Oil were the best, so they got the cream of the rest to come there (its always like that in every professional sport).

    I beg to differ in some respects.

    We have had quality players for the past 10 years but couldn’t find the lunch pail crew to bring it all together.

    Don’t underestimate the tremendous value all of Sather’s tinkering did for those teams. There were so many unsung hero moments throughout the 80s but they get lost in the brilliance of the core.

  17. Coiler says:

    Kudos LT, for that nice trip down memory lane. What a time to be alive and to see that group come together. Makes me yearn for that time in a few ways.

    Fast forward almost 40 years and here we are. Yikes…how time flies.

  18. dcsj says:

    The first WHA year, I lobbied hard to get my dad to take us to a game in the old Edmonton Garden. We saw the great Bobby Hull there (while dodging around the posts to get a good look). They got cheated out of the playoffs by Minnesota that year, if I recall

  19. Paulie says:

    Wonder Llama:
    Any love for Petr Klima and that well-rested overtime goal?

    A lovely stroll down memory lane today. Thank you, LT. The Klima comment made me think about that 1990 run and the 89-90 team. As much as I loved Gretzky, this was my favorite team of all time.

    The Oilers struggled mightily during round 1 against the Jets, going down 3-1 with Ranford in goal and people wondering if he could get the job done. He righted himself in game 5 and went on the win the Conn Smythe.

    In the conference finals against Chicago, Moose scored 2 goals and had 2 assists in a 4-2, Game 4 win. Some wag described Moose’s performance like this: “Mark Messier had a 2 goal, 2 assist, 46 elbow night against Chicago.”

    Tik is my all time favorite player. He was at the height of his powers during that run. Another writer summarized Tik’s defensive performance during the playoffs like this: “He had Gretzky for breakfast, Savard for lunch, and Janney for dinner.”

    Before the finals, I thought we had a good chance, but was terrified by Ray Bourque. IIRC, he had a decent, not dominant, series. I remember watching Game 1 of the finals on a satellite dish at the bar at the Potato City Inn in Coudersport, PA, a small town in the north central part of the state. The town is part of Potter County, whose motto is “God’s Country.” The locals joked it was God’s country because no one else wanted it. Coudersport was sparsely populated and I was probably the only Oilers fan in the county. I think Game 1 was on a Monday or Tuesday night. A small crowd at the bar slowly dissipated throughout the evening. By 11 or so I was the only one at the bar and remained so for the next couple of hours. Tommy the bartender feel asleep, slumped on a bar stool long after midnight until I started screaming “HOLY F**K” when Klima scored. If you watch the clip you can see Kuri set it up beautifully. Scared the hell out of the bartender, but I left him a $50 tip. I was 22 in 1990, cheap as hell, working my first full time job.

    I remember later on Bruins coach Mike Milbury said something to the effect that he was a bit surprised to see Klima out there in OT because he was dangerous offensively and defensively.

  20. flyfish1168 says:

    There needs to be a place for the Rat. Kenny Linsemen. Filthy wack to the back of the knees all day longing when your in the corner with him.

  21. elgruntus says:

    Is there a more legendary Oiler than…..Stan Weir?

  22. Pouzar says:

    Wonder Llama: Any love for Petr Klima and that well-rested overtime goal?

    Lots here.
    It was 9:30 AM Newfoundland time when he scored it but I saw er b’y.

  23. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Thanks LT, that definitely brought back some memories. I was fortunate enough to have a connection to the team back then and had some real special experiences because of it. We got to skate with the Oil in their pre-practice warm up a few times, and I got into the dressing room after we won the cup a few times. Drinking champagne from the cup as a twelve year old…that’s one I will never forget!

  24. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    While wandering down memory lane…

    As a kid playing minor hockey in St. Albert, I remember seeing Tik at the Akinsdale Arena one time. He was just coming into the Oilers fold. I can’t remember if he was doing a brief stint with the Saints or what exactly. I also vaguely recall he had some variation of a “mohawk haircut” . Interesting cat. Definitely fun to watch play.
    Messier will always be in my top-4 hockey players of all time, possibly my favorite – a great combination of skill, speed, toughness and crazy. Although my login suggests I saw a lot of Gordie Howe play, I unfortunately did not. 😉

  25. Mustard Tiger says:

    “There are memories to be gathered that will last you a lifetime. Hockey, the best hockey, is returning. The boys are back in town.”

    LT just got me all hyped up

  26. Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR says:

    I know he was only here for a short time, but I loved Scott Mellanby. I was a big fan when he was in Philly, and when he came to EDM I asked my dad for a Mellanby jersey. He got me one of the iron-on ones, but him describing the guy’s reaction when he told him I wanted Mellanby’s name and number put on a jersey was priceless. Really underrated player, and I still have the jersey!

  27. Andy Dufresne says:

    Just the nicknames alone tell you everything you need to know about the state of the modern game.

    OLD SCHOOL

    Dave “Bam Bam” Langevin
    Dave “The Hammer” Semenko
    The Great One
    Bill “Cowboy” Flett
    Moooose
    CoCo
    The Rat
    Captain Canada
    Gator
    Rolie the Goalie
    Cujo
    Peaches
    etc

    versus MODERN ERA nicklames

    Hallsy
    Ebbs
    Nuge
    Dubey
    etc

    Even the guys with old school nicknames we can’t seem to hold on to for more than a season or two:

    Pancakes, Captian Crunch. The Professor, Looch, The Big Rig (which doesnt bode well for The Real Deal)

    Synopsis:

    1980’s Schultz = Dave “The Hammer” (Bull Dog? Pit Bull? )
    2010’s Schultz = Justin “Schutlzy” (Chihuahua? Pomeranian?)

    Prolouge:
    Thankfully for us, hovering above it all…”McDeity” !!!

  28. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    JJS: I beg to differ in some respects.

    We have had quality players for the past 10 years but couldn’t find the lunch pail crew to bring it all together.

    Don’t underestimate the tremendous value all of Sather’s tinkering did for those teams.There were so many unsung hero moments throughout the 80s but they get lost in the brilliance of the core.

    – Yeah, your comment echoes the sentiment I’m sure of most (and how I used to look at it)

    – Without that core, those unsung heroes are just guys. And in the last 10 years+, it wasn’t the tinkering and production from the non-skill guys, that has been the problem: rather we haven’t had enough high-end talent IMO (and don’t value talent enough, preferring Grit, character, Culture, etc)

  29. Durag says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Ah, a simpler time when it was acceptable for a nickname to be simultaneously racist and casually reference a player’s drug problem

  30. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ryan Rishaug
    @TSNRyanRishaug
    ·
    40m
    Seeing for the first time today full speed acceleration up the ice and McDavid isn’t having any issues at all. Seems to have full power.

    44m
    McDavid taking part in all the drills so far, and not in a non-contact jersey. Looks fine.

  31. Andy Dufresne says:

    Durag:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Ah, a simpler time when it was acceptable for a nickname to be simultaneously racist and casually reference a player’s drug problem

    In the words of Eric Clapton … Its alright, Its alright, Its allright……

  32. Reja says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Just the nicknames alone tell you everything you need to know about the atate of the modern game.

    OLD SCHOOL

    Dave “Bam Bam” Langevin
    Dave “The Hammer” Semenko
    The Great One
    Bill “Cowboy” Flett
    Moooose
    CoCo
    The Rat
    Captain Canada
    Gator
    Rolie the Goalie
    Cujo
    Peaches
    etc

    versus MODERN ERA nicklames

    Hallsy
    Ebbs
    Nuge
    Dubey
    etc

    Even the guys with old school nicknames we can’t seem to hold on to for more than a season or two:

    Pancakes, Captian Crunch. The Professor, Looch, The Big Rig(which doesnt bode well for The Real Deal)

    Synopsis:

    1980’s Schultz = Dave “The Hammer” (Bull Dog? Pit Bull? )
    2010’s Shcultz = Justin “Shutlzy”(Chihuahua? Pomeranian?)

    Prolouge:
    Thankfully for us, hovering above it all…”McDeity”!!!

    The politically correct crowd along with lawyers took all the openly fun away.

  33. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Ryan Rishaug
    @TSNRyanRishaug
    ·
    40m
    Seeing for the first time today full speed acceleration up the ice and McDavid isn’t having any issues at all.Seems to have full power.

    44m
    McDavid taking part in all the drills so far, and not in a non-contact jersey.Looks fine.

    And so he rises up the draft chart in fantasy hockey once more.

  34. Bag of Pucks says:

    Does Sather appreciate Coffey to a greater degree if he looks more like Bobby Baun and less like Rob Lowe in Youngblood?

  35. frjohnk says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: it wasn’t the tinkering and production from the non-skill guys, that has been the problem: rather we haven’t had enough high-end talent IMO

    The non skilled guys have been a huge problem over the last decade. Most of them have brought little production. Their GF% was somewhere in the low 30’s %.

  36. JJ says:

    godot10 says:
    September 13, 2019 at 9:13 am

    Chico21:
    I met Tikkanen at the Viking cup in Camrose when I was 12. Didn’t know who he was at the time but man I loved that guy as a player. Game 7 against Calgary in 1990 was probably the pinnacle of his career with the hat trick. As for Jesse how about a trade with the Islanders for Ho Sang. Seems like an even value and a new start for both players.

    NO!!!!!

    Puljujarvi has value. Why do people want to trade him for players like Honka and Ho Sang who don’t?

    ————————————–

    Patience. There is no rush to trade Jesse. Let him play and prove his talent, heal his hips, and find out his misses the NHL and playing for the Oilers.

    At that point, if he does not return to the Oilers, we might be able to trade for something more valuable. To trade now for a lost prospect who probably will never have a career is the same as giving him away for nothing. I agree with Ken Holland on this one.

  37. Alpine says:

    I would be okay with someone like Raddysh or Volkov for Jesse. Plus a semi-high pick. Hell if Alex Nylander can get a top prospect in return despite three years of mediocre AHL performances, than a better player like Jesse should be able to get something better then those two guys I mentioned.

  38. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – On a seperate note: I was at my Son’s school assembly. His school has had a connection to the Terry Fox family since inception.

    – The niece of Terry Fox came to the school, for her first “solo” outing. The school takes great pride in being the single largest “donor” to Terry Fox, having raised close to an astonishing $1.5MM

    – Terry Fox was a giant to me. I was a little boy in Yellowknife during the Marathon of Hope. Every evening they would have news updates of what he did that day. It was a riveting and impactful thing on many kids of that age: a window into the rest of Canada. When he tearfully announced he had to stop for Leukemia treatment, I had no clue what that was, but I knew it was bad

    – When I got older, and lived in London, they had a Terry Fox run, it was a small thing. And then I came back to Canada, and it was kind of in the background

    – His Legacy I have come to more fully appreciate: its part of a central learning piece in many schools. I get tears every year at the assembly: with the videos, of that proud defiant humble naive dreamer who ran a marathon every day on a very primitive prosthetic

    – I spoke with his neice afterwards, tried to explain that now as a parent I’m in awe of how big Terry Fox has become, and one of the only “heros” that Canadians are taught about and worship, and how much bigger it has become.

    – She shared a few really neat bits of information: Over 9,000 schools and 3 million kids participate in a Terry Fox Run annually. The school kids are the single largest fundraisers for the foundation (over 60%). The national races held on weekend the rest. I then asked : “yeah but that doesn’t include about corporate sponsorship?” The Terry Fox foundation doesn’t have “corporate sponsors” she tells me. There are no “RBC buildings” no corporation is attached to Terry’s name

    – She said that was her uncle’s vision when he tragically had to quit and asked: “I need you all to finish the race , it’s got to go on without me”

    – Anyway I thought it was remarkable. It’s hard to imagine, but at his time, if you had Cancer, it was something shameful, not to be talked about. He was really at the forefront of making discussion about Cancer acceptable (perhaps analogous to the openness that has emerged when talking about mental health today)

    – So I am a cynic on many things (I hate that Tim Horton’s has inculcated Canadiana for profit motive and people believe that Tim Hortons = Canada. I disagree strongly that we should be singing Oh Canada at professional league sporting events (Baseball, Hockey, Football, Soccer): in arenas owned by billionaires, subsidized by tax-payers, played by millionaires, most who are not Canadian, where I spend hundreds of dollars to attend for-profit entertainment and cheer for my team that has nothing do do with my nationality. I hate that Bell expropriates Normandy and has commercials about kids calling their Grandparents to “thank-them” linking their for profit motives with Canadian history.

    – But Terry Fox: and the ethos behind his work, and what he continues to teach kids about perseverance, humility, goals, a greater good, failure. It is a tribute to his ongoing legacy that its not the BCE Terry Fox Cancer research centre”, or that Canadian Tire salutes him

    – Anyway, long rant, but its an amazing legacy he has left, something great:

    ““I’m not a dreamer, and I’m not saying this will initiate any kind of definitive answer or cure to cancer, but I believe in miracles. I have to.”

  39. Pouzar says:

    Reid Wilkins (@ReidWilkins) · Twitter
    https://twitter.com/ReidWilkins

    Looks like Kris Russell is the only Oiler who was scheduled to skate this morning but isn’t on the ice.
    2 hours ago

    Group A forwards:

    Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
    Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
    Gambardella-Malone-Currie
    Benson-McLeod-Yamamoto #Oilers

    2 hours ago

  40. Ryan says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Yeah, your comment echoes the sentiment I’m sure of most (and how I used to look at it)

    – Without that core, those unsung heroes are just guys.And in the last 10 years+, it wasn’t the tinkering and production from the non-skill guys, that has been the problem: rather we haven’t had enough high-end talent IMO (and don’t value talent enough, preferring Grit, character, Culture, etc)

    The Oilers haven’t had either really for many years.

    Post 2006 cup run, we haven’t had a good top six until recently acquiring some high-end pieces via the draft.

    However, the one constant has been that the bottom six has been an absolute tire fire the entire time culminating in last year’s record-setting bottom-six scoring ineptitude.

    It’s really hard for teams to get the face cards (aces, kings, jacks) as Lowetide calls them, but there’s no reason other than utter managerial incompetence that our bottom six should be so bad for so long.

  41. hunter1909 says:

    IT’S BACK!!!!!!!!! FOR ANOTHER EXCITING, INCREDIBLE SEASON FREE TO ENTER + PLAY

    Hunter1909’s Official 2019-20 Death March™

    Entries welcome between now and the first puck drop of the 2019-20 season(October 2)

    Here’s how you play: Guess how many points the Oilers get in the regular season.

    That’s it!

    Tie break: How many regular season goals does JP score for his new Finnish team?

  42. defmn says:

    JJ:

    Patience. There is no rush to trade Jesse. Let him play and prove his talent, heal his hips, and find out his misses the NHL and playing for the Oilers.

    At that point, if he does not return to the Oilers, we might be able to trade for something more valuable. To trade now for a lost prospect who probably will never have a career is the same as giving him away for nothing. I agree with Ken Holland on this one.

    Yup. There is a certain calmness that comes from experience and success. No need to rush. No need to feel pressure. Use the time the event allows you.

    How different would this team have been the last decade if somebody like Holland had been the GM when Pronger demanded a trade out of town?

  43. dustrock says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Fantastic post, Kinger. Really great. I get teary-eyed just thinking about Terry Fox. My daughter’s school does the run every year too.

  44. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Andy Dufresne: In the words of Eric Clapton … Its alright, Its alright, Its allright……

    No, it’s not alright. Not your fault someone woke up BH this morning.

  45. LadiesloveSmid says:

    LT has some nicknames.

    Hall was the Kingston Cannonball
    Hemsky the Pardubice Prince

    Maroon was the Big Rig.
    McDavid is McJesus.
    Smid was the Lady pleaser (ok that one’s made up)
    Yakcity
    Reggie

  46. frjohnk says:

    LadiesloveSmid: LT has some nicknames.

    Godot had a good one for Eakins

    The Dementor

  47. rogue says:

    Val Fonteyne shadowing Bobby Hull and i believe getting 1st star that night. Loved the WHA.

  48. Oilman99 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    It takes more than six guys to make a TEAM, and that is what all those other guys were part of, a TEAM. Everybody had a role , and knew what their role was. Maybe they weren’t stars, but when put together, they were the best TEAM in the NHL for seven or eight years because everybody knew what it took to win.

  49. rogue says:

    Bob Falkenberg

  50. rogue says:

    Tik was a special kind of shadow. Used to drive guys nuts yapping to them in Finnish.

  51. rogue says:

    Kurri once said that Esa ” was a Finnish experiment gone wrong” lol

  52. Oilman99 says:

    JJ:
    godot10 says:
    September 13, 2019 at 9:13 am

    Chico21: I met Tikkanen at the Viking cup in Camrose when I was 12. Didn’t know who he was at the time but man I loved that guy as a player. Game 7 against Calgary in 1990 was probably the pinnacle of his career with the hat trick. As for Jesse how about a trade with the Islanders for Ho Sang. Seems like an even value and a new start for both players.

    NO!!!!!

    Puljujarvi has value. Why do people want to trade him for players like Honka and Ho Sang who don’t?

    ————————————–

    Patience. There is no rush to trade Jesse. Let him play and prove his talent, heal his hips, and find out his misses the NHL and playing for the Oilers.

    At that point, if he does not return to the Oilers, we might be able to trade for something more valuable. To trade now for a lost prospect who probably will never have a career is the same as giving him away for nothing. I agree with Ken Holland on this one.

    Totally agree, let him build up his confidence and value, then if he doesn’t want to come back to the Oilers, maybe they can get a fair return based on his perceived value when he was drafted.

  53. Jaxon says:

    Andy Dufresne: In the words of Eric Clapton … Its alright, Its alright, Its allright……

    Ummm… Eric Clapton? That may not be the best source of quotes when deflecting racism.

  54. rogue says:

    Oilman99,

    110% correct

  55. Jaxon says:

    Andy Dufresne: versus MODERN ERA nicklames

    Hallsy
    Ebbs
    Nuge
    Dubey
    etc

    Wait, how is Looch old school and any different from these?

  56. Oilman99 says:

    Chico21:
    I met Tikkanen at the Viking cup in Camrose when I was 12. Didn’t know who he was at the time but man I loved that guy as a player. Game 7 against Calgary in 1990 was probably the pinnacle of his career with the hat trick. As for Jesse how about a trade with the Islanders for Ho Sang. Seems like an even value and a new start for both players.

    If JP had the same attitude and drive as Tikkanen he would be a key player for the the OIlers, he would be an absolute beast.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    Neal is skating with Nuge and Gagner and Chiasson is down with Marody and Jurco.

    So early but I do think its an indication that Chiasson is definitely not a front runner for the 2nd wing spot and Tippett would like Neal on the right side.

    Excellent stuff and I do think Gagner is a solid shot at that 2LW spot (even though he’s more of a RW) – anything to get Neal on the right side and Chiasson down the lineup.

  58. Chico21 says:

    JJ,

    Have you ever watched Ho Sang?
    They guy is flat out skill and has never gotten a fair shake in New York.

  59. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Neal is skating with Nuge and Gagner and Chiasson is down with Marody and Jurco.

    So early but I do think its an indication that Chiasson is definitely not a front runner for the 2nd wing spot and Tippett would like Neal on the right side.

    Excellent stuff and I do think Gagner is a solid shot at that 2LW spot (even though he’s more of a RW) – anything to get Neal on the right side and Chiasson down the lineup.

    What about speed on that line? Neal & Gagner together make me nervous defensively.

  60. Numenius says:

    LadiesloveSmid: McDavid is McJesus.

    This nickname needs to die.

    He’s no doubt a superstar generational player, but he’s no saviour on his own.

    The last 4 seasons have proved that.

    It rings a bit like the Beatles claiming to be bigger than Jesus, and we know how that turned out.

  61. Reja says:

    rogue:
    Val Fonteyne shadowing Bobby Hull and i believe getting 1st star that night. Loved the WHA.

    Gerry Cheevers in Cleveland silks was my first autograph absolutely loved him after he gave me words of encouragement when he signed it. Became a Goalie in every sport big reason was a autograph from the great Cheevers. Also the best mask in NHL history.

  62. defmn says:

    Patrik Petrin
    ‏ @PatrikPetrin
    7m7 minutes ago

    Tommy Samuelsson trainer for Skelleftea in SHL says Philip Broberg is the most skilled Defenceman he has coached or played with in the past 40 yrs since Frederik Olousson,he said he will be a superstar Defenceman in his prime.

  63. Lowetide says:

    Jason Gregor
    @JasonGregor
    ·
    1h
    Gagner-RNH-Neal
    Granlund-Haas-Hebig
    Nygard-Cave-P. Russell
    Jurco-Marody-Chiasson

  64. SwedishPoster says:

    So the lines indicate that Kass as expected gets first crack with McDrai and Gagner gets first shot with RNH-Neal, as mentioned that line feels slow. It’s also obvious that Jujhar-She-Archie is the Tippetts first draft of a shutdown line. The 4th line seems like it’s up in the air with guys spread out all over. Chiasson on the outside looking in, probably eyeing Gagners spot but imo he could very well end up 13th forward, hard to find a spot for him that makes sense.
    The D pairings are also pretty clear to start, the relative vets gets the nod, it’s up to the guys outside the top 6 to steal a spot, Manning is clearly seen as the pressboxer. At least until a) Tip recognize that you can’t even use him for spot duty, guy isn’t NHL level or b) someone pushes either Persson, Benning or Russell to the pressbox.
    Everything matches what Tippett and Holland has stated before camp. Vets get first bat. Rather promote younglings during the season over having to send them down. McDrai together. RNH-Neal. An early attempt at a shutdown line. A full on battle for the spots on the 4th line.

  65. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Do the oilers pro scouts just like Persson THAT much?

    Seems like an interesting project, but far from a guaranteed NHLer let alone 2nd pair guy.

    Have to think most statistical comparables washed out.

    Nick Ebert is another ’94 that signed in Ottawa, 33P in 49GP in the SHL last season

  66. pts2pndr says:

    SwedishPoster:
    So the lines indicate that Kass as expected gets first crack with McDrai and Gagner gets first shot with RNH-Neal, as mentioned that line feels slow. It’s also obvious that Jujhar-She-Archie is the Tippetts first draft of a shutdown line. The 4th line seems like it’s up in the air with guys spread out all over. Chiasson on the outside looking in, probably eyeing Gagners spot but imo he could very well end up 13th forward, hard to find a spot for him that makes sense.
    The D pairings are also pretty clear to start, the relative vets gets the nod, it’s up to the guys outside the top 6 to steal a spot, Manning is clearly seen as the pressboxer. At least until a) Tip recognize that you can’t even use him for spot duty, guy isn’t NHL level or b) someone pushes either Persson, Benning or Russell to the pressbox.
    Everything matches what Tippett and Holland has stated before camp. Vets get first bat. Rather promote younglings during the season over having to send them down. McDrai together. RNH-Neal. An early attempt at a shutdown line. A full on battle for the spots on the 4th line.

    I am hopeful they will try Nygard with Nuge and Neal. It would give them a speedy winger to get in on the forecheck and make the the line more balanced.

  67. Reja says:

    defmn: What about speed on that line? Neal & Gagner together make me nervous defensively.

    I think Gagner and chase will play up and down the lineup remember Gagner played for Tippett and played well in his system. What I’m most excited about is finally a coach and GM on the same page with creating a shutdown third line. When’s the last time we’ve had someone who could win crucial faceoffs on the PK and especially when the net is empty. I hope Riley kills it on the dot and ends up being a role player in Edmonton for years.

  68. jtblack says:

    QUESTION: When has NUGE shown the ability to drive his own line?

    IMO, wihtout a strong winger or two, the 2nd line is doomed to give up more than it gets …NEAL is a good NHL player but certainly not a driver in the Top 6 …

    I am curious to see how line #2 makes out throughout the season

  69. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Neal is skating with Nuge and Gagner and Chiasson is down with Marody and Jurco.

    So early but I do think its an indication that Chiasson is definitely not a front runner for the 2nd wing spot and Tippett would like Neal on the right side.

    Excellent stuff and I do think Gagner is a solid shot at that 2LW spot (even though he’s more of a RW) – anything to get Neal on the right side and Chiasson down the lineup.

    Tippett is not biasing the competition for the spot on Nuge’s line by chosing one of the new guys. He wants to see who really wants it and works their ass off on a lower line during practices and exhibitions.

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pouzar:
    Reid Wilkins (@ReidWilkins) · Twitter
    https://twitter.com/ReidWilkins

    Looks like Kris Russell is the only Oiler who was scheduled to skate this morning but isn’t on the ice.
    2 hours ago

    Group A forwards:

    Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
    Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
    Gambardella-Malone-Currie
    Benson-McLeod-Yamamoto #Oilers

    2 hours ago

    Russell healthy scratched from the first day of camp…………………….

  71. Side says:

    Numenius: This nickname needs to die.

    He’s no doubt a superstar generational player, but he’s no saviour on his own.

    The last 4 seasons have proved that.

    It rings a bit like the Beatles claiming to be bigger than Jesus, and we know how that turned out.

    It’s a joke. No one is actually saying that Connor McDavid is jesus.

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    Smith missed practice with the flu.

    Kris Russell collided with someone and is in concussion potocol – will miss at least a week.

    Maybe we will see the:

    Jones (Lagesson)/Persson (Benning) 3rd pair to start the season…………..

  73. Jordan says:

    jtblack:
    QUESTION:When has NUGE shown the ability to drive his own line?

    IMO, wihtout a strong winger or two, the 2nd line is doomed to give up more than it gets …NEAL is a good NHL player but certainly not a driver in the Top 6 …

    I am curious to see how line #2 makes out throughout the season

    When Hall was injured in 2015, Nuge centred Pouliot and Eberle, and they were dangerous and effective.

    Nuge isn’t going to “drive” a line like some other players do because players who “drive” a line have one or more characteristics that allow them to flat out beat another player. Hall was speed and puckskill, CMD is more speed, puckskill and processing at speed, Pouliot had speed and physicallity, and Ebs has his shot and seam-finding to get it off.

    Nuge’s special is positioning and spatial awareness. His mobility and edgework help him with these, but they mostly just put him in the right place at the right time. But these skills don’t let him flat out beat defenders or goalies so he’s never going to be able to drive a line.

    He’s a good player without a dominant attribute. You can never have enough of these guys, becuase they allow people who do have a dominant attribute that opportunity to use it, by providing coverage for weaknesses and by putting their linemates in a place to use their dominant attribute.

    Why did Lucic look better with RNH last year? Why did Hall and Ebs look so good with him? Why is Neal going to score 20+ goals this year? Why is Gagner going to look like a top6 scorer through training camp? Why is Nygard going to click like lego when he gets moved up there later in the season? Why do so many fans want to see Benson get a shot in that spot?

    Nuge makes the players around him better.

    It’s a great skill to have, just not one that is likely to get him paid. (also good for the Oilers cap)

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Jack Michaels:

    Tippett says while McDavid has been cleared for contact & will continue to participate in all the drills, he won’t play in the first week of the preseason…Goalie Mike Smith has a touch of the flu, Kris Russell a little banged up, nothing serious.

    —————————————————–

    A week with a concussion isn’t “nothing serious” to me – could linger….

    Sounds like McDavid may play an exhibition game in the second week – we wait.

  75. Victoria Oil says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – On a seperate note: I was at my Son’s school assembly.His school has had a connection to the Terry Fox family since inception.

    – The niece of Terry Fox came to the school, for her first “solo” outing.The school takes great pride in being the single largest “donor” to Terry Fox, having raised close to an astonishing $1.5MM

    – Terry Fox was a giant to me.I was a little boy in Yellowknife during the Marathon of Hope.Every evening they would have news updates of what he did that day.It was a riveting and impactful thing on many kids of that age: a window into the rest of Canada.When he tearfully announced he had to stop for Leukemia treatment, I had no clue what that was, but I knew it was bad

    – When I got older, and lived in London, they had a Terry Fox run, it was a small thing.And then I came back to Canada, and it was kind of in the background

    – His Legacy I have come to more fully appreciate: its part of a central learning piece in many schools.I get tears every year at the assembly: with the videos, of that proud defiant humble naive dreamer who ran a marathon every day on a very primitive prosthetic

    – I spoke with his neice afterwards, tried to explain that now as a parent I’m in awe of how big Terry Fox has become, and one of the only “heros” that Canadians are taught about and worship, and how much bigger it has become.

    – She shared a few really neat bits of information: Over 9,000 schools and 3 million kids participate in a Terry Fox Run annually.The school kids are the single largest fundraisers for the foundation (over 60%).The national races held on weekend the rest.I then asked : “yeah but that doesn’t include about corporate sponsorship?”The Terry Fox foundation doesn’t have “corporate sponsors” she tells me.There are no “RBC buildings” no corporation is attached to Terry’s name

    – She said that was her uncle’s vision when he tragically had to quit and asked: “I need you all to finish the race , it’s got to go on without me”

    – Anyway I thought it was remarkable.It’s hard to imagine, but at his time, if you had Cancer, it was something shameful, not to be talked about.He was really at the forefront of making discussion about Cancer acceptable (perhaps analogous to the openness that has emerged when talking about mental health today)

    – So I am a cynic on many things (I hate that Tim Horton’s has inculcated Canadiana for profit motive and people believe that Tim Hortons = Canada.I disagree strongly that we should be singing Oh Canada at professional league sporting events (Baseball, Hockey, Football, Soccer):in arenas owned by billionaires, subsidized by tax-payers, played by millionaires, most who are not Canadian, where Ispend hundreds of dollars to attend for-profit entertainment and cheer for my team that has nothing do do with my nationality.I hate that Bell expropriates Normandy and has commercials about kids calling their Grandparents to “thank-them” linking their for profit motives with Canadian history.

    – But Terry Fox: and the ethos behind his work, and what he continues to teach kids about perseverance, humility, goals, a greater good, failure.It is a tribute to his ongoing legacy that its not the BCE Terry Fox Cancer research centre”, or that Canadian Tire salutes him

    – Anyway, long rant, but its an amazing legacy he has left, something great:

    ““I’m not a dreamer, and I’m not saying this will initiate any kind of definitive answer or cure to cancer, but I believe in miracles. I have to.”

    Thanks for your post. Whenever people talk about Terry Fox, I still get goosebumps.

    And now I’m fortunate enough to live near the Terry Fox statute at Mile Zero of the Trans Canada highway here in Victoria.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: Yup. There is a certain calmness that comes from experience and success. No need to rush. No need to feel pressure. Use the time the event allows you.

    How different would this team have been the last decade if somebody like Holland had been the GM when Pronger demanded a trade out of town?

    Do you think Holland could have received more than the following for Pronger?

    – a first round pick
    – another first round pick
    – a second round pick
    – a 21 year old winger who just scored 28 goals and has the pedigree
    – a recently drafted top 10 overall d-man

  77. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Maybe someone should tell the Oilers Persson is a defenceman:

    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/video/main-camp–persson-091319/t-281751750/c-68832903

  78. JJ says:

    Oilman99 says:
    September 13, 2019 at 11:57 am

    Chico21:
    I met Tikkanen at the Viking cup in Camrose when I was 12. Didn’t know who he was at the time but man I loved that guy as a player. Game 7 against Calgary in 1990 was probably the pinnacle of his career with the hat trick. As for Jesse how about a trade with the Islanders for Ho Sang. Seems like an even value and a new start for both players.

    If JP had the same attitude and drive as Tikkanen he would be a key player for the the OIlers, he would be an absolute beast.

    ————————–
    Here is what Esa said about Jesse on twitter recently.
    Jesse is still young. I hope Jesse proves him wrong.

    ——-
    Esa Tiki Tikkanen
    @tikitalk10
    ·
    Aug 27
    Puljujärvi never really had what it takes to make it in #Oilers. He is a very skilled player but in Edmonton you just need to have something more. Believe me, I know!!

    However all the best to Jesse. He makes upcoming #Liiga season very interesting
    👍
    👍
    👍

  79. deardylan says:

    Kinger. What. A. Post. Imagine what a team of Terry Foxes could do! We are all gonna die, but Terry lives on and on and on.

  80. JJ says:

    Chico21 says:
    September 13, 2019 at 1:04 pm

    JJ,

    Have you ever watched Ho Sang?
    They guy is flat out skill and has never gotten a fair shake in New York.

    ———————-

    I have seen very little of him. If I remember correctly, he and the Islanders got into a pissing match and that may have affected their handling of him as a prospect.

    Here are his box cars.

    Career statistics
    Regular season and playoffs
    Regular season Playoffs
    Season Team League GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
    2012–13 Windsor Spitfires OHL 63 14 30 44 22 — — — — —
    2013–14 Windsor Spitfires OHL 67 32 53 85 44 4 1 2 3 10
    2014–15 Windsor Spitfires OHL 11 3 16 19 8 — — — — —
    2014–15 Niagara IceDogs OHL 49 14 48 62 38 11 1 15 16 18
    2015–16 Niagara IceDogs OHL 66 19 63 82 44 17 6 20 26 8
    2016–17 Bridgeport Tigers AHL 50 10 26 36 24 — — — — —
    2016–17 New York Islanders NHL 21 4 6 10 12 — — — — —
    2017–18 New York Islanders NHL 22 2 10 12 2 — — — — —
    2017–18 Bridgeport Tigers AHL 50 8 23 31 40 — — — — —
    2018–19 Bridgeport Tigers AHL 56 8 35 43 18 5 1 1 2 0
    2018–19 New York Islanders NHL 10 1 1 2 6 — — — — —
    NHL totals 53 7 17 24 20 — — — — —

    When I look at this, and honestly not knowing what his situation has been,
    I think he is close to playing in Europe, but not of his own choice like our Jesse.

    I still think you let Jesse play in Europe and see where that goes.

  81. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    defmn: Yup. There is a certain calmness that comes from experience and success. No need to rush. No need to feel pressure. Use the time the event allows you.

    How different would this team have been the last decade if somebody like Holland had been the GM when Pronger demanded a trade out of town?

    Well we wouldn’t Connor…😜

  82. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Chico21:
    JJ,

    Have you ever watched Ho Sang?
    They guy is flat out skill and has never gotten a fair shake in New York.

    Have you ever watched Ho sang?
    He is a defensive gong show…

  83. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar: Do you think Holland could have received more than the following for Pronger?

    – a first round pick
    – another first round pick
    – a second round pick
    – a 21 year old winger who just scored 28 goals and has the pedigree
    – a recently drafted top 10 overall d-man

    I think Lowe should have waited. Fill in the names instead of their description and it doesn’t look nearly as impressive.

    Or, put it another way. Would you be happy if the Oilers traded McDavid for that package because Pronger was at least as important to the team as McDavid.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: I think Lowe should have waited. Fill in the names instead of their description and it doesn’t look nearly as impressive.

    Or, put it another way. Would you be happy if the Oilers traded McDavid for that package because Pronger was at least as important to the team as McDavid.

    Filling in the names doesn’t change the trade return value on trade day. No, Smid and Lupul sure didn’t work out but Kevin Lowe got a massive asset package.

    Let me ask you this, did you like the deadline deal to rent Samsonov in 2006? A second round pick to rent a guy that played a big secondary role in the Cup run. We may not make it past Detroit with him.

    Fill in the name of that pick and see if the trade looks the same (and forget about the last three years).

  85. leadfarmer says:

    I had Zegras Caufield then Broberg
    All 3 will have great careers.

  86. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar: Filling in the names doesn’t change the trade return value on trade day. No, Smid and Lupul sure didn’t work out but Kevin Lowe got a massive asset package.

    Let me ask you this, did you like the deadline deal to rent Samsonov in 2006? A second round pick to rent a guy that played a big secondary role in the Cup run.We may not make it past Detroit with him.

    Fill in the name of that pick and see if the trade looks the same (and forget about the last three years).

    Lupul & Smid are the names I was referring to and nothing you wrote changes my mind because the proof is in the spiral that the team took with pretty much every UFA walking once Pronger was moved.

    When you trade a guy like Pronger you know those 1st round picks are likely to be in the 20-30 range just because he was so dominant a player so listing them as 1st round picks is more than a little vague in terms of value and I think you know that. It isn’t like we were going to get plug and play guys back.

    But since we are asking questions. What does Pronger do if Lowe refuses to trade him?

  87. Professor Q says:

    Numenius: This nickname needs to die.

    He’s no doubt a superstar generational player, but he’s no saviour on his own.

    The last 4 seasons have proved that.

    It rings a bit like the Beatles claiming to be bigger than Jesus, and we know how that turned out.

    I think P.K. Subban called him McJesus at an All-Star Gane and it stuck. However, there is also Captain Canadian Super Promise, a name given to him by another NHLer I think.

  88. Professor Q says:

    OriginalPouzar: Do you think Holland could have received more than the following for Pronger?

    – a first round pick
    – another first round pick
    – a second round pick
    – a 21 year old winger who just scored 28 goals and has the pedigree
    – a recently drafted top 10 overall d-man

    Do you think if he’d have traded for Perry earlier, that he wouldn’t have had to trade Pronger?

  89. Lowetide says:

    Numenius: This nickname needs to die.

    He’s no doubt a superstar generational player, but he’s no saviour on his own.

    The last 4 seasons have proved that.

    It rings a bit like the Beatles claiming to be bigger than Jesus, and we know how that turned out.

    The Beatles sold millions of records after John Lennon said it. It turned out fine.

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: Lupul & Smid are the names I was referring to and nothing you wrote changes my mind because the proof is in the spiral that the team took with pretty much every UFA walking once Pronger was moved.

    When you trade a guy like Pronger you know those 1st round picks are likely to be in the 20-30 range just because he was so dominant a player so listing them as 1st round picks is more than a little vague in terms of value and I think you know that. It isn’t like we were going to get plug and play guys back.

    But since we are asking questions. What does Pronger do if Lowe refuses to trade him?

    I know the names your were talking about and I had described them by what “they were” on the date of the trade as that was how the asset was valued on the date of the trade.

    Speaking of the draft pick value, you aren’t wrong – then again, one pick, as I’m sure you knew was Eberle and the other was Hamonic.

    The asset haul Lowe got was marvelous.

    Yes, I know I’m the minority opinion, again.

  91. Professor Q says:

    Lowetide: The Beatles sold millions of records after John Lennon said it. It turned out fine.

    And no religion, too.

  92. jtblack says:

    Jordan: When Hall was injured in 2015, Nuge centred Pouliot and Eberle, and they were dangerous and effective.

    Nuge isn’t going to “drive” a line like some other players do because players who “drive” a line have one or more characteristics that allow them to flat out beat another player.Hall was speed and puckskill, CMD is more speed, puckskill and processing at speed, Pouliot had speed and physicallity, and Ebs has his shot and seam-finding to get it off.

    Nuge’s special is positioning and spatial awareness.His mobility and edgework help him with these, but they mostly just put him in the right place at the right time.But these skills don’t let him flat out beat defenders or goalies so he’s never going to be able to drive a line.

    He’s a good player without a dominant attribute.You can never have enough of these guys, becuase they allow people who do have a dominant attribute that opportunity to use it, by providing coverage for weaknesses and by putting their linemates in a place to use their dominant attribute.

    Why did Lucic look better with RNH last year?Why did Hall and Ebs look so good with him?Why is Neal going to score 20+ goals this year?Why is Gagner going to look like a top6 scorer through training camp?Why is Nygard going to click like lego when he gets moved up there later in the season?Why do so many fans want to see Benson get a shot in that spot?

    Nuge makes the players around him better.

    It’s a great skill to have, just not one that is likely to get him paid. (also good for the Oilers cap)

    I agree he is a very good player. But the Oilers need a 2nd line that can outscore the oppositions 2nd line …. not sure any combination of RNH, NEAL & XXXX can do that.

  93. McSorley33 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Bloody good post Kinger.

    Thanks,

  94. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar: I know the names your were talking about and I had described them by what “they were” on the date of the trade as that was how the asset was valued on the date of the trade.

    Speaking of the draft pick value, you aren’t wrong – then again, one pick, as I’m sure you knew was Eberle and the other was Hamonic.

    The asset haul Lowe got was marvelous.

    Yes, I know I’m the minority opinion, again.

    He lost the team. I don’t think you are taking that into account.

  95. hunter1909 says:

    IT’S BACK!!!!!!!!! FOR ANOTHER EXCITING, INCREDIBLE SEASON

    Hunter1909’s Official 2019-20 Death March™

    Entries welcome between now and the first puck drop of the 2019-20 season(October 2)

    Here’s how you play: Guess how many points the Oilers get in the regular season.

    That’s it!

    Tie break: How many goals does JP score for his new Finnish team?

  96. Professor Q says:

    defmn: He lost the team. I don’t think you are taking that into account.

    Yes, I guess it was a steamroll.

    Samsonov left. Peca left (one of my favourites). Spacek left. Harvey retired. Smith, Smyth, Greene, Stoll, most of the return for Pronger and Penner etc. would soon be traded, also. Rem Murray couldn’t keep going with his illness taking over, and the same with Pisani. Couldn’t keep the gang together at all. DoD was destined to happen with that decision making continuing (plus the poor drafting and drowning rookies I suppose).

  97. jtblack says:

    MARNER DONE @ $10.8 MIL X 6 YRS

  98. Brantford Boy says:

    defmn: What about speed on that line? Neal & Gagner together make me nervous defensively.

    Trust the Nuge… he’ll clean up the mess defensively…

  99. Ribs says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    Maybe someone should tell the Oilers Persson is a defenceman:

    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/video/main-camp–persson-091319/t-281751750/c-68832903

    Looks like the Ol’ Man Strength has passed over this fella. I likely wouldn’t peg him as an NHL defenceman if I saw him walking down the street!

  100. defmn says:

    jtblack:
    MARNER DONE @ $10.8 MIL X 6 YRS

    I have to give Dubas credit. He did a hell of a job in difficult circumstances this summer.

  101. norm_klassen says:

    Nuge has bulked up u can tell.

  102. norm_klassen says:

    The eye plays tricks the brain fills in the rest
    These are the 2019 Edmonton oilers

  103. Mr DeBakey says:

    dcsj:
    The first WHA year, I lobbied hard to get my dad to take us to a game in the old Edmonton Garden. We saw the great Bobby Hull there (while dodging around the posts to get a good look). They got cheated out of the playoffs by Minnesota that year, if I recall

    The NHL got an injunction against Hull for breaking his contract [The Reserve Clause], so he didn’t dress for the early part of the season.
    Hull managed to have the injunction overturned a few weeks into the season.
    His first game in Edmonton was November 15

    http://www.whahof.com/gamesummary.php?id=568

    5200 fans, including you know whom were there. I believe this was the Oilers first Sellout.
    * * *

    Totally agree on Rusty Patenaude.
    My second-favourite Oiler line of all time is from 76-77 [I think]
    Rick Morris-Norm Ullman-Rusty Patenaude
    An extremely wily veteran between two speedsters.

  104. jtblack says:

    defmn: I have to give Dubas credit. He did a hell of a job in difficult circumstances this summer.

    TOR is a def Cup favorite ….. They have everybody signed. Babcock has his rightly / lefty D he has wanted .. they have a Good Goalie .. Depth and are all under 30 …

  105. godot10 says:

    jtblack:
    MARNER DONE @ $10.8 MIL X 6 YRS

    You forgot the “Doug Gilmour”.

  106. Scungilli Slushy says:

    One of my favourites LT, non family stories, thanks. You condensed so much down into a few brilliant sections.

  107. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: The Beatles sold millions of records after John Lennon said it. It turned out fine.

    Did it?

  108. defmn says:

    godot10: Did it?

    Pretty much the same as it did for the other guy.

  109. HT Joe says:

    Side: It’s a joke. No one is actually saying that Connor McDavid is jesus.

    I’m a staunch agnostic (ha) but I agree… that nickname has got to go. If you’re going to name a player after a deity, at least pick a deity who is not widely worshipped… like Zeus. 😉

  110. Scungilli Slushy says:

    To think Sather wasn’t absolutely important to what the team became, and those players, seems to miss the point.

    No team in any sport can have such dominant success without players and managers both.

    Gretzky wasn’t a no brainer. Very few people at that time thought he’d be anything in the NHL. On another team he may have not had the career he did.

    Sather adopted ideas nobody would use. He allowed players to play in a way nobody else would.

    Even if Gretzky could have risen above on another team, I fully credit Sather with grooming all of the others into what they became.

    Messier and Anderson had raw talent, but that has never been in short supply. That they became what they did , and had the rope to, was all Sather.

    The yearly trades that always seemed to help, the out of the box thinking, the toughness and personal interest he had in them, that isn’t a foregone conclusion just because you’ve been handed skill.

    Or this era should look the same right? Anybody can do it if you keep being handed high talent and high picks, repeatedly.

    Not to mention he also had to deal with the league constantly going after them because they were so disruptive. Maybe the Oilers also invented disrupting industries.

  111. defmn says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    To think Sather wasn’t absolutely important to what the team became, and those players, seems to miss the point.

    No team in any sport can have such dominant success without players and managers both.

    Gretzky wasn’t a no brainer. Very few people at that time thought he’d be anything in the NHL. On another team he may have not had the career he did.

    Sather adopted ideas nobody would use. He allowed players to play in a way nobody else would.

    Even if Gretzky could have risen above on another team, I fully credit Sather with grooming all of the others into what they became.

    Messier and Anderson had raw talent, but that has never been in short supply. That they became what they did , and had the rope to, was all Sather.

    The yearly trades that always seemed to help, the out of the box thinking, the toughness and personal interest he had in them, that isn’t a foregone conclusion just because you’ve been handed skill.

    Or this era should look the same right? Anybody can do it if you keep being handed high talent and high picks, repeatedly.

    Not to mention he also had to deal with the league constantly going after them because they were so disruptive. Maybe the Oilers also invented disrupting industries.

    When an organization fails it is because of the guys who made the decisions so when an organization succeeds you give the credit.

    I can list lots of examples of the things Sather did that made it work but really that is all it comes down to.

    It worked, Sather was making the decisions, he gets the credit.

    Not that complicated imo.

  112. Scungilli Slushy says:

    HT Joe: I’m a staunch agnostic (ha) but I agree… that nickname has got to go.If you’re going to name a player after a deity, at least pick a deity who is not widely worshipped… like Zeus.

    If we have to be politically correct and be careful to not offend it makes little sense why a nickname any nickname that will offend a lot of people would be ok.

    It’s sports, don’t make it complicated and a battle. It’s meant to be an escape from life’s more pressing issues.

  113. defmn says:

    Bob McKenzie
    ‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie
    14m14 minutes ago

    Bob McKenzie Retweeted PuckPedia

    Can you say signing bonus?

    PuckPedia
    ‏ @PuckPedia

    The #MapleLeafs Mitch Marner 6 year $10.893M Cap Hit:

    -Yr 1: $700K Base, $15.3M SB
    -Yr 2: $700K & $14.3M SB
    -Yr 3: $750K & $9.608M SB
    -Yr 4: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 5: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 6: $750K, $7.25M SB

    Rep’d by Darren Ferris

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    Whoa, I guess Marner is never getting bought out – almost entirely signing bonus:

    -Yr 1: $700K Base, $15.3M SB
    -Yr 2: $700K & $14.3M SB
    -Yr 3: $750K & $9.608M SB
    -Yr 4: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 5: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 6: $750K, $7.25M SB

  115. Scungilli Slushy says:

    defmn: When an organization fails it is because of the guys who made the decisions so when an organization succeeds you give the credit.

    I can list lots of examples of the things Sather did that made it work but really that is all it comes down to.

    It worked, Sather was making the decisions, he gets the credit.

    Not that complicated imo.

    I don’t know if you were around for those days, but it was a different time and there was a lot going on.

    Guys weren’t making a lot of money outside of a very few, press didn’t reveal all of the shenanigans nearly to the level now.

    Revisionist history is bad and wrong history.

    Sather didn’t do it again, but few do. Gretzky didn’t do it again.

    Such success is based on a perfect storm of talent, leadership, timing, everything.

    But leadership is first, it has to be. Players don’t make decisions. The Patriots are the current example of brilliance of leadership. They didn’t trade Brady or fire Bilechek. Rotate the players through, same results.

  116. HT Joe says:

    Scungilli Slushy: If we have to be politically correct and be careful to not offend it makes little sense why a nickname any nickname that will offend a lot of people would be ok.
    It’s sports, don’t make it complicated and a battle. It’s meant to be an escape from life’s more pressing issues.

    I agree with you. Just to be clear, I’m really, REALLY against the nickname McJesus. Always have been.

    I had intended to make a light-hearted joke about using Zeus as a nickname (I doubt that would offend many / any people), and winked since I realized Zeus and Jesus have the same name root… but that was a ridiculous thing to wink about. Sorry about being unclear.

  117. ArmchairGM says:

    defmn:
    Bob McKenzie
    ‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie
    14m14 minutes ago

    Bob McKenzie Retweeted PuckPedia

    Can you say signing bonus?

    PuckPedia
    ‏ @PuckPedia

    The #MapleLeafs Mitch Marner 6 year $10.893M Cap Hit:

    -Yr 1: $700K Base, $15.3M SB
    -Yr 2: $700K & $14.3M SB
    -Yr 3: $750K & $9.608M SB
    -Yr 4: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 5: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 6: $750K, $7.25M SB

    Rep’d by Darren Ferris

    I’m glad our guys are locked up long-term, that’s a whole lotta chedda… probably a $2M overpay.

  118. ArmchairGM says:

    HT Joe: I agree with you.Just to be clear, I’m really, REALLY against the nickname McJesus.Always have been.

    I had intended to make a light-hearted joke about using Zeus as a nickname (I doubt that would offend many / any people), and winked since I realized Zeus and Jesus have the same name root… but that was a ridiculous thing to wink about.Sorry about being unclear.

    I dislike the nickname as well. It’s a lot of pressure to put on a mere hockey player… big sandals to fill, so to speak.

  119. McNuge93 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Whoa, I guess Marner is never getting bought out – almost entirely signing bonus:

    -Yr 1: $700K Base, $15.3M SB
    -Yr 2: $700K & $14.3M SB
    -Yr 3: $750K & $9.608M SB
    -Yr 4: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 5: $750K & $7.25M SB
    -Yr 6: $750K, $7.25M SB

    Wow. The Leafs appear to be exactly at the cap and that’s with Hyman and Dermott on IR. How does that work when they return. They would be over the cap.

  120. HT Joe says:

    McNuge93: Wow. The Leafs appear to be exactly at the cap and that’s with Hyman and Dermott on IR. How does that work when they return. They would be over the cap.

    Huh, refusing to sign for the full 8 years like McDavid did… guess Marner doesn’t REALLY want to play for the leafs as much as McDavid does for the Oilers…

  121. Scungilli Slushy says:

    HT Joe: I agree with you.Just to be clear, I’m really, REALLY against the nickname McJesus.Always have been.

    I had intended to make a light-hearted joke about using Zeus as a nickname (I doubt that would offend many / any people), and winked since I realized Zeus and Jesus have the same name root… but that was a ridiculous thing to wink about.Sorry about being unclear.

    Right I was commenting in general not to anyone in particular, although I’m not sure about the two names having the same root, just because they look similar in English, which neither are from. Which is more about what I was thinking.

    Religion and politics have always been contentious and the Ol’ Al Gore doesn’t seem to help 😀

  122. Jethro Tull says:

    Anybody who knows anything about anything knows that he wasn’t the Messiah, he was a very naughty boy.

    Joking aside, I think at last count, there were approximately 50 or so claimants for the Handel (ahem) of Messiah and son of God. Closest of which was a guy named Simon who actually succeeded in setting up a short lived Jewish state.

    What’s in a name?

  123. HT Joe says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Religion and politics have always been contentious and the Ol’ Al Gore doesn’t seem to help

    Agreed. Now… back to hockey… ahhh, Marner… 🙂

    I hope Tkachuk signs for more money and less term… get those Flames into a Chia-esque cap hell.

  124. defmn says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I don’t know if you were around for those days, but it was a different time and there was a lot going on.

    Guys weren’t making a lot of money outside of a very few, press didn’t reveal all of the shenanigans nearly to the level now.

    Revisionist history is bad and wrong history.

    Sather didn’t do it again, but few do. Gretzky didn’t do it again.

    Such success is based on a perfect storm of talent, leadership, timing, everything.

    But leadership is first, it has to be. Players don’t make decisions. The Patriots are the current example of brilliance of leadership. They didn’t trade Brady or fire Bilechek. Rotate the players through, same results.

    Yeah, I was around. I missed the beginning as I was living in Bangkok but I was around.

    And I agree. There are lots of ingredients but leadership comes first.

  125. Scungilli Slushy says:

    defmn: I have to give Dubas credit. He did a hell of a job in difficult circumstances this summer.

    Did he? Marner’s contract could become toxic, highly risky.

    The Tavares deal is the killer. That hamstrung them. This is a path we’ve seen before.

    They either win a cup in the next few, or they have to burn more firsts to get out of the top heavy payroll. In a capped league having a lot of spendable cash doesn’t matter as much as it used to.

  126. Scungilli Slushy says:

    HT Joe: Agreed.Now… back to hockey… ahhh, Marner…

    I hope Tkachuk signs for more money and less term… get those Flames into a Chia-esque cap hell.

    Perfect

    I hope they keep going heavy and thug.

    Every season teams over react. Maybe for once ours won’t

  127. OriginalPouzar says:

    McNuge: Wow. The Leafs appear to be exactly at the cap and that’s with Hyman and Dermott on IR. How does that work when they return. They would be over the cap.

    The Leafs aren’t at the cap, they are $13M over the cap.

    I’m not actually sure how they have signed this contract because they are more than 10% over – the max off-season overage amount.

    They must be using off-season LTIR.

    Dubas and his team are going to have a heck of time this year just staying cap compliant on a nightly basis – if the Leafs end up with a solid amount of injuries, they may not be able to call up replacements.

    Forget about material in-season acquisitions, even at the deadline.

  128. defmn says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Did he? Marner’s contract could become toxic, highly risky.

    The Tavares deal is the killer. That hamstrung them. This is a path we’ve seen before.

    They either win a cup in the next few, or they have to burn more firsts to get out of the top heavy payroll. In a capped league having a lot of spendable cash doesn’t matter as much as it used to.

    Isn’t this true for pretty much every team in a capped league?

  129. Harpers Hair says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Perfect

    I hope they keep going heavy and thug.

    Every season teams over react. Maybe for once ours won’t

    The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

  130. Johnny skid says:

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    what food group would you use to describe the team you cheer for? Sour grapes possibly?

  131. HT Joe says:

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    I WISH the Oilers were porridge… but not that instant oatmeal crap. Real porridge. Thick enough to stop a bullet (and certainly more pucks than the Oilers did last year).

    A long way to porridge…

  132. norm_klassen says:

    The mc jesus name is offensive but the association of mc being rooted from the mega franchise mc Donald combined with the most known figure of the human race ; real or not.
    Mcjesus is the most powerful name a player could have

  133. oilersfan says:

    What does the Marner contract imply for Tkachuk?

    Also how did the flames re- sign Stone? I thought the team that buys out a player couldn’t re- sign him. Which is why the oilers didn’t buy out gagner and re – sign him this summer to league minimum

  134. rickithebear says:

    defmn: I have to give Dubas credit. He did a hell of a job in difficult circumstances this summer.

    18/19:
    Tavares: 82gm 47G 41A 88P
    6@ 11.0M

    Mathews: 68gm 37G 36A 73P
    5@ 11.634M

    Marner: 82gm 26G 68A 94P
    6@ 10.893M

    110G 145A 255p for 33.527M

    Thinks back to all the TOR media saying EDM was handcuffed by Mcdavid Draisaitl contracts.

    Draisaitl: 82gm 50G 55A 105P
    6@ 8.5M smiles realizing
    -Cap hit is a steal
    – Mathews contract expires a yr before Drai.

    Mcdavid: 78gm 41G 75A 116P
    7 @ 12.5M smiles realizing
    – Marner contract expires a yr before Mcdavid

    RNH: 82gm 28G 41A 69P
    2@ 6.0M

    119G 171A 290P for 27M

    9G and 45P more for 6.527M less.
    Smiles!

    17/18
    Nylander: 80gm 20g 41A 61P
    5@ 6.932M

    Neal: 71Gm 25g 19A 44P
    4@ 5.75 + .750 lucic (6.5m)

    Interesting!

  135. oilersfan says:

    In their 3 year entry Tkachuk has .77 ppg

    Marner has .93 ppg

    Tkachuk has .83 of the ppg that Marner has

    I know this doesn’t take into account 5×5 vs PP or PK or defensive play or quality of opponents or Zone starts , but based purely on box scores the market for Tkachuk based on Marners deal is 6x$9 million

    Hope Keith junior has to hold out a month or two then gets it

  136. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    Fuk the leafs and the Canucks who booed team Canada off the ice in 72.

  137. rickithebear says:

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    LT taught us about what a quality org is!
    Pennants!

    You are not a championship, Cup contender until you make the final 4.

    7 of 8 final 4 teams are top GA teams.

    Their are 29 losing orgs and 2 championship teams each year.

    Toronto is a Brutal closed low density shot def team.
    When game tightens in Playoffs.
    Bottom closed Low density def teams disappear in first 2 rounds. Most in the first like TOR & Calgary.

    Tor have not been a Championship contender since 01-02.

    Leafs have not won a championship in the Modern Era.

    Oilers have a championship post 05-06 lockout.

  138. razor says:

    Man did I live the verbal from Tippets availability today on Kassian and him being a UFA this year. Haha – “pretty simple” being on the RW spot with McDavid and Drai in a UFA year. Lol

  139. Reja says:

    oilersfan:
    In their 3 year entry Tkachuk has .77 ppg

    Marner has .93 ppg

    Tkachuk has .83 of the ppg that Marner has

    I know this doesn’t take into account 5×5 vs PP or PK or defensive play or quality of opponents or Zone starts , but based purely on box scores the market for Tkachuk based on Marners deal is 6x$9 million

    Hope Keith junior has to hold out a month or two then gets it

    The Tkachuk klan will torture the Flames for at least 8,5-9 on a front loaded contract. I might be lowballing him at 8.5. Why would they hold out for months because they can.

  140. OriginalPouzar says:

    oilersfan:
    What does the Marner contract imply for Tkachuk?

    Also how did the flames re- sign Stone? I thought the team that buys out a player couldn’t re- sign him. Which is why the oilers didn’t buy out gagner and re – sign him this summer to league minimum

    The one-year hold period only applied to compliance buyouts.

  141. defmn says:

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    At least half the teams in the league are in cap hell. It isn’t all that special a club.

  142. Pescador says:

    norm_klassen:
    Nuge has bulked up u can tell.

    Maybe, careful not to fall for the ol’ tube sock in the jock
    trick.
    Classic Nuge

  143. Numenius says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    To think Sather wasn’t absolutely important to what the team became, and those players, seems to miss the point.

    No team in any sport can have such dominant success without players and managers both.

    Gretzky wasn’t a no brainer. Very few people at that time thought he’d be anything in the NHL. On another team he may have not had the career he did.

    Sather adopted ideas nobody would use. He allowed players to play in a way nobody else would.

    Even if Gretzky could have risen above on another team, I fully credit Sather with grooming all of the others into what they became.

    Messier and Anderson had raw talent, but that has never been in short supply. That they became what they did , and had the rope to, was all Sather.

    The yearly trades that always seemed to help, the out of the box thinking, the toughness and personal interest he had in them, that isn’t a foregone conclusion just because you’ve been handed skill.

    Or this era should look the same right? Anybody can do it if you keep being handed high talent and high picks, repeatedly.

    Not to mention he also had to deal with the league constantly going after them because they were so disruptive. Maybe the Oilers also invented disrupting industries.

    Great post. Absolutely agree.

  144. CallighenMan says:

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    TROLL go back into your hole.

  145. HT Joe says:

    CallighenMan: TROLL go back into your hole.

    … you’ve got to pay the troll toll (https://youtu.be/3sYSt26kh6Y)

  146. HT Joe says:

    rickithebear: LT taught us about what a quality org is!
    Pennants!

    Man, Lowetide taught me so soo much about everything!! Thanks Lowetide for hosting this place after all of these years!

  147. yeraslob says:

    CallighenMan,

    Reminds me of an absolute troll on the Sportsnet comment board. Obviously no job and no life, commenting on every Oiler story. If I’m bored and want to laugh at sheer stupidity, I’ll log in and he never disappoints, lol. Lots of different ID’s but what the moron writes shines through every time. They call him spilly or spillies but he’s been kicked off so many times he can’t use those names anymore.

  148. Professor Q says:

    defmn: Isn’t this true for pretty much every team in a capped league?

    It’s a bit different for the Leafs. They’re over the Cap hy a wide margin before they’ve already begun, as opposed to after they’ve been successful.

    They’re over the Cap, have quite a few large dead cap contracts and spots taken, and need to sign 6+ Defencemen next offseason. Andersen’s renewal is coming up next offseason as well. Will that be more than the current $5 million?

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    As for the Oilers, they are not in Cap Hell, as the Leafs are. They have something like $30 million opening up next offseason with Nurse being the primary concern, and goaltending. Maybe they sign Andersen and go on to win Back-to-Back Stanley Cups, who knows?

    If Neal pans out then they have a good thing going, despite an overpay. If he doesn’t then, well, unfortunately another buyout could happen but it would be a more palatable one than the alternative that could have been.

  149. JimmyV1965 says:

    jtblack:
    QUESTION:When has NUGE shown the ability to drive his own line?

    IMO, wihtout a strong winger or two, the 2nd line is doomed to give up more than it gets …NEAL is a good NHL player but certainly not a driver in the Top 6 …

    I am curious to see how line #2 makes out throughout the season

    There’s maybe a handful of 2Cs in the league that can actually drive a line. And there’s probably a handful of 1Cs that can’t drive a line either. If RNH is your 2C, you’re looking pretty good. I like what Holland has done this year, but the biggest hole outside goalie was finding a legit top six winger and he didn’t get one.

  150. McNuge93 says:

    OriginalPouzar: The Leafs aren’t at the cap, they are $13M over the cap.

    I’m not actually sure how they have signed this contract because they are more than 10% over – the max off-season overage amount.

    They must be using off-season LTIR.

    Dubas and his team are going to have a heck of time this year just staying cap compliant on a nightly basis – if the Leafs end up with a solid amount of injuries, they may not be able to call up replacements.

    Forget about material in-season acquisitions, even at the deadline.

    My thoughts for a while now is that the Leafs wouldl need to trade someone now or soon to give them some cap room. I believe the Canucks, Flames and Tampa will be in the same boat once their RFAs sign. Marner’s contract doesn’t help the situation as its not exactly a bargain for the team. Maybe slightly lower than expected but still high.

  151. Winagameeh says:

    Thank you Mr. Mitchell for all you have done for hockey people who love the sport and all it involves. Go Oilers!

  152. defmn says:

    Professor Q: It’s a bit different for the Leafs. They’re over the Cap hy a wide margin before they’ve already begun, as opposed to after they’ve been successful.

    They’re over the Cap, have quite a few large dead cap contracts and spots taken, and need to sign 6+ Defencemen next offseason. Andersen’s renewal is coming up next offseason as well. Will that be more than the current $5 million?

    I won’t disagree but will point out that their cap situation looked even worse this summer and yet somehow they are sitting with a cup contending team even if they can’t add to it during the season.

    I think most predicted they would have to lose a player or even two this summer and yet to me they look stronger than the team they iced last season.

  153. JimmyV1965 says:

    defmn: I have to give Dubas credit. He did a hell of a job in difficult circumstances this summer.

    Dubas was the creator of his own hell. The day he signed Tavares to an $11 mill contract, he doomed the team to cap hell. This created expectations for everyone else on the team. And now they have four guys taking up $40 mill in cap. And this isn’t hindsight either. It was talked about the day he did the deal for Tavares.

  154. RonnieB says:

    OriginalPouzar: The Leafs aren’t at the cap, they are $13M over the cap.

    I’m not actually sure how they have signed this contract because they are more than 10% over – the max off-season overage amount.

    They must be using off-season LTIR.

    Dubas and his team are going to have a heck of time this year just staying cap compliant on a nightly basis – if the Leafs end up with a solid amount of injuries, they may not be able to call up replacements.

    Forget about material in-season acquisitions, even at the deadline.

    Do we know that they have actually signed a contract ? So far all I’ve seen is that they agreed to a deal. Is there anything to stop the Leafs from waiting until after they show the required season-opening cap compliance before filing a Marner contract with the league ?

  155. defmn says:

    JimmyV1965: Dubas was the creator of his own hell. The day he signed Tavares to an $11 mill contract, he doomed the team to cap hell.This created expectations for everyone else on the team. And now they have four guys taking up $40 mill in cap. And this isn’t hindsight either. It was talked about the day he did the deal for Tavares.

    I guess it depends how you look at it. He is going to go into the season compliant with a lineup that has to be one of the favourites to win the cup.

    That is a different definition of hell than most would have.

  156. duct tape and foil says:

    The Leafs are one injury away from Gravel on their 2nd pair and nothing they can do about it. If I’m Holland then I’m on the phone trying to pry Kapanen away for an extra young, cheap dman who is ready to go like Caleb Jones. Might have to dump Gagner or Brodziak on somebody like OTT for a pick to make the cap work, but so be it.

  157. Reja says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I don’t know if you were around for those days, but it was a different time and there was a lot going on.

    Guys weren’t making a lot of money outside of a very few, press didn’t reveal all of the shenanigans nearly to the level now.

    Revisionist history is bad and wrong history.

    Sather didn’t do it again, but few do. Gretzky didn’t do it again.

    Such success is based on a perfect storm of talent, leadership, timing, everything.

    But leadership is first, it has to be. Players don’t make decisions. The Patriots are the current example of brilliance of leadership. They didn’t trade Brady or fire Bilechek. Rotate the players through, same results.

    I vaguely remember the Grinder and David’s days and if you were really adventurous you would end up at Sugars at 3:00 AM. Sather was more than a coach he was a father to his players he brushed and bailed out more players then I and you can imagine. In the eighties anyone associated with the Oilers was above the law and that’s a fact jack.

  158. JimmyV1965 says:

    Harpers Hair: The Leafs and Oilers are both in cap hell.
    One team is a cup contender, the other is porridge.

    Comparing Dubas to Chia is a pretty low bar IMO.

  159. JimmyV1965 says:

    defmn: I guess it depends how you look at it. He is going to go into the season compliant with a lineup that has to be one of the favourites to win the cup.

    That is a different definition of hell than most would have.

    Sure, they’ll make it through this season. It’s next year when the shoe drops. Maybe they can figure it out, but the defence group will be pretty ugly next year. I simply can’t see how you can be successful with $40 mill invested in four players. Or even $33 mill in three players.

  160. Reja says:

    duct tape and foil:
    The Leafs are one injury away from Gravel on their 2nd pair and nothing they can do about it. If I’m Holland then I’m on the phone trying to pry Kapanen away for an extra young, cheap dman who is ready to go like Caleb Jones. Might have to dump Gagner or Brodziak on somebody like OTT for a pick to make the cap work, but so be it.

    You cannot go through 4 rounds of the hardest cup to win in all major sports with a soft D and losing Kadri up front doesn’t help their chances either with the big bad Bruins.

  161. defmn says:

    JimmyV1965: Sure, they’ll make it through this season. It’s next year when the shoe drops.Maybe they can figure it out, but the defence group will be pretty ugly next year. I simply can’t see how you can be successful with $40 mill invested in four players. Or even $33 mill in three players.

    I don’t see it either but I didn’t see how they were going to do it this summer either.

    Honestly, did you think they could keep all of their young guys this summer and add Ceci, Barrie, and Kerfoot and just lose Marleau Kadri and Gardiner?

    I hate the Leafs as much as any good Oiler fan but imo Dubas did a lot better than I thought he would and next summer is a long way off.

  162. Jaxon says:

    OriginalPouzar: The Leafs aren’t at the cap, they are $13M over the cap.

    I’m not actually sure how they have signed this contract because they are more than 10% over – the max off-season overage amount.

    They must be using off-season LTIR.

    Dubas and his team are going to have a heck of time this year just staying cap compliant on a nightly basis – if the Leafs end up with a solid amount of injuries, they may not be able to call up replacements.

    Forget about material in-season acquisitions, even at the deadline.

    It appears to be LTIR that is keeping them compliant at the moment with $13.7M on LTIR and being $13.2M over cap. As you said, I’m not sure how they’ll remain cap compliant this year or next summer when Clarkson and Horton contracts expire. Wow. The loophole might buy them some time but that’s about it. I guess they’re in win now mode. A bit premature although they really did improve their D in the last year adding Ceci, Muzzin, and Barrie (or did they?).

  163. YKOil says:

    Next year TO has $66.3m against a Cap of (probably) $83.5m

    For that $66.3m they have 8 of their top-9 forwards, 3 of the 4th line types, 1 1st-pair d-man and their #1 goalie. That includes Hyman. That is 13 of 23.

    They then have $17.2m to sign 2 more forwards, a back-up goalie and, at least, 6 defensemen. Lets say they follow the same format as this year and sign 2 forwards, the goalie and 3 of the 6 d-men to contracts averaging $750k. That is $4.5m and brings them to 19 of 23.

    They have $12.7m left to fill out the last 3 d-men spots. This does not include any ‘LTIR’ contracts they decide to buy. I expect that this year and next they will run with 22 contracts instead of 23.

    It is tight, no denying it, especially if the Cap is any less than the $83.5m, but really, I think they are just waiting for Seattle expansion and the new TV contract to hit.

    They will lose Hyman (and a draft pick to Seattle), one of Kapanen Johnsson or Kerfoot and one of Ceci, Barrie or Muzzin (read: Ceci) and have 2 to 3 lean years but they will be fine.

    Decent, if expensive, work by Dubas. Injury and goalie voodoo could be the big betrayer and their young d-men HAVE to deliver, but we’ll see.

    (Note: Travis Dermott could be a more expensive piece that they expect and I think they’ll give Ceci’s money to Barrie but as an UFA it will be interesting to see what Barrie does.)

  164. Professor Q says:

    YKOil,

    They’ll also lose Andersen.

  165. frjohnk says:

    Toronto has a top 9 forward, top 3 D, number 1 goalie group that only a few teams can relate to.

    They will contend this year. And if the cap does not increase by much next year and they cant keep both Muzzin and Barrie, they just have to trade Nylander to free up space for a Dman. They will still contend.

    So what if they are in cap hell.

    Our D for most of the last decade and the bottom 6 have been scorched earth hell

  166. frjohnk says:

    defmn: Honestly, did you think they could keep all of their young guys this summer and add Ceci, Barrie, and Kerfoot and just lose Marleau Kadri and Gardiner?

    And got rid of Zaistev. Not sure what the hell Ottawa was thinking in that trade.

  167. Professor Q says:

    They also had to lose a 1st round pick in order to lose Marleau.

    And brought back Clarkson.

    And won’t be able to keep Barrie or Andersen.

    Dubas hasn’t been doing as good of a job as you defenders think he has. He has neither foresight nor patience, and caves too easily.

    It’s funny that now that the Leafs are Top Heavy, with no depth core and troubled seas on the horizon, they’re into that and think it’ll work.

    After years of chiding Edmonton for the same (though not nearly as egregious) “crime”, thinking their depth was something to laud over the hapless Oilers.

  168. frjohnk says:

    Professor Q:
    They also had to lose a 1st round pick in order to lose Marleau.

    And brought back Clarkson.

    And won’t be able to keep Barrie or Andersen.

    Dubas hasn’t been doing as good of a job as you defenders think he has.

    They needed Marleaus cap space. 1st rounder was too much, but Dubas was desperate and the Canes knew it.

    The Clarkson move is to use LTIR ( I still dont understand it)

    I doubt Barrie resigns with Toronto.

    No GM is going to win every transaction. And on the flip side, a GM like Chia did not lose every transation.

    In no way am I a Toronto fan but I do like what Dubas has built and Im jealous. I wish we had him as GM and not the disaster we had.

  169. frjohnk says:

    Professor Q: Top Heavy, with no depth core

    Huh?

    Reilly, Muzzin and Barrie are 3 top 4 Dmen who could compete with most other top teams top 3 D.
    A number 1 goalie in Anderson

    no depth core?
    Imagine we could put McDavid, Drai and Nuge at center and we could put on the wings
    Marner, Nylander, Kaspenan ( 20 goals) Johnsson ( 22 goals) Hyman ( 21 goals)
    and then some bets that may or may not work Mikheyev,( 23 goals in KHL) Moore ( 23 goals in AHL)

    All these guys are young and provide deep depth

  170. Professor Q says:

    frjohnk: Huh?

    Reilly, Muzzin and Barrie are 3 top 4 Dmen who could compete with most other top teams top 3 D.
    A number 1 goalie in Anderson

    no depth core?
    Imagine we could put McDavid, Drai and Nuge at center and we could put on the wings
    Marner, Nylander, Kaspenan ( 20 goals) Johnsson ( 22 goals) Hyman ( 21 goals)
    and then some bets that may or may not work Mikheyev,( 23 goals in KHL) Moore ( 23 goals in AHL)

    All these guys are young and provide deep depth

    They aren’t going to be able to re-sign said pieces starting next offseason though, including said Top 1 Goalie and Top 4 D. They’re already $13 million over the cap. People think they can just retain everyone and everything will be all peachy.

  171. Jethro Tull says:

    I think the Oilers are the last organization that should throw shade at others, beyond the obligatory “Flames/Nucks/Leafs suck.

    Strangely, I don’t mind the Habs or Ottawa. Hate Ottawa’s owner though.

  172. Professor Q says:

    Jethro Tull:
    I think the Oilers are the last organization that should throw shade at others, beyond the obligatory “Flames/Nucks/Leafs suck.

    Strangely, I don’t mind the Habs or Ottawa. Hate Ottawa’s owner though.

    It’s not the Oilers throwing shade though. It’s them throwing the reverse, after years of having shade thrown at them by said opposite parties. It’s sort of saying,

    “…and you were saying, from your High Toronto Horse? Welcome.”

  173. frjohnk says:

    Professor Q: They aren’t going to be able to re-sign said pieces starting next offseason though, including said Top 1 Goalie and Top 4 D. They’re already $13 million over the cap. People think they can just retain everyone and everything will be all peachy.

    I don’t think they can retain everybody. I think they end up trading Nylander. But they have depth to cover his loss.

    Their D will need work next year if they lose Muzzin and Barrie and if those young guys in the AhL don’t pan out.

    They have Andersen for 2 years and then after that?

    I do think they are betting on the new TV deal to increase the cap

  174. Jethro Tull says:

    Professor Q: It’s not the Oilers throwing shade though. It’s them throwing the reverse, after years of having shade thrown at them by said opposite parties. It’s sort of saying,

    “…and you were saying, from your High Toronto Horse? Welcome.”

    And all they have to do is smile and ask how the playoffs went last year.

    Dubas is nothing of not innovative. He’ll figure it out. Remember he studied under Lou, King of Circumvention.

  175. OriginalPouzar says:

    5 minutes to go and Skelfeeta are down 4-3.

    Broberg and Berglund seem to be playing 3rd pairing minutes with just under 12 minutes – its close though, the top d-men only have just under 14 so it seems the pairs are being rolled.

    Broberg is -2 with a shot on net. Berglund is even.

  176. OriginalPouzar says:

    RonnieB: Do we know that they have actually signed a contract ? So far all I’ve seen is that they agreed to a deal. Is there anything to stop the Leafs from waiting until after they show the required season-opening cap compliance before filing a Marner contract with the league ?

    My thought is that the contract likely isn’t signed yet, however, at the same time, he is on his way to camp and I’m sure he doesn’t step on the ice until his contract is official and the related insurance in place.

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