The Next Waive

I have followed waivers for decades, along with its long forgotten brother the Intra-League Draft. It’s a fabulous idea, giving someone caught in one organization a second life in another one.

I will tell you that the group on waivers this morning might be my all-time favourite, exceeded only by the time Sam Pollock lost a HHOF goalie in the Intra-League Draft.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, we are celebrating our 2-year anniversary this week. To mark the occasion, you can get 40% off subscriptions here.

  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Oscar Klefbom on being a mentor, his strategy for staying healthy and saying goodbye to a friend.
  • New Daniel and Jon: Ten bold (and not so bold) predictions for the Oilers this season
  • Lowetide: The Oilers are poised to break a 25-year-old franchise record this season
  • Lowetide: Jesse Puljujarvi’s fast start leads the way for Oilers prospects as 2019-20 gets underway
  • Lowetide: Joakim Nygard and Gaetan Haas bid for final Oilers spots during a strange game in Calgary
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: An educated guess at the Oilers’ opening-night roster
  • Lowetide: Jay Woodcroft’s Bakersfield Condors might be bound for glory
  • Jonathan Willis: Ethan Bear, Tomas Jurco outshine the competition in second-to-last Oilers preseason game
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Joakim Nygard managing his anger as he eyes spot on Oilers.
  • Jonathan Willis: Assessing the Oilers’ roster as the final positional battles are sorted out
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers cut Evan Bouchard and Shane Starrett. Is Ethan Bear on the cusp of making the team?
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Connor McDavid’s nearing return and four other things we’ve learned from Oilers camp
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: How five months in Kelowna changed Leon Draisaitl’s hockey career
  • Lowetide: Matt Benning may be vulnerable to a trade as Ken Holland works to tweak Oilers roster
  • Corey Pronman: Oilers No. 9 farm system.
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

WAIVERS TODAY

It’s like Lowetide Christmas! I’m two weeks away from a turkey and today is a helluva appetizer. The Edmonton Oilers are extremely unlikely to choose anyone, but that doesn’t mean they should pass on the ample talent available at 10am Edmonton time.

RW Daniel Sprong, Anaheim Ducks. This would be my first choice. Sprong is 22, fast, and his per 82 rates in the NHL (17 goals, 157 shots) are solid to good. He would be the first Dutch (Netherlands) Oiler, although Jerry Holland played 22 games for the WHA Oilers (Holland is from Beaver Lodge).

RW Josh Ho Sang, NY Islanders. He is fast, smaller and talented. Ho Sang doesn’t shoot a lot (averages about a shot per game) and will be highly motivated. I don’t believe the Oilers will put in a claim.

LD Thomas Hickey, NY Islanders. Another player Edmonton won’t pick, I’ve listed Hickey because his fancy numbers are excellent. According to Puck IQ, he spent 33.5 percent of his overall time defending against elites in 2018-19. DFF: 49.9 DFF%RC: 7.5. He’s a good player.

LW Nikolay Goldobin, Vancouver Canucks. Skill winger averages 12.6 goals and 117 shots per 82 NHL games. Good skater, he’s 23. Puck IQ doesn’t love him against elites.

LW Sven Baertschi, Vancouver Canucks. During his NHL career, he has averaged 19 goals and 125 shots per 82 games. He’s expensive (Oilers would be more likely to trade for him than make a claim) and I think this was an unwise waiver exposure.

G Eric Comrie, Winnipeg Jets. He’s 24, has played in only five NHL games, but owns a .917 AHL save percentage from 2018-19. My guess is that the Oilers are at least somewhat comfortable with the goalie depth chart, but this would be an intriguing claim.

G Casey DeSmith, Pittsburgh Penguins. In the last two seasons with the Penguins, his save percentages were .921 and .916. He is a solid waiver option.

LOWETIDE AUGUST PROJECTED OPENING NIGHT ROSTER

  • Leon Draisaitl—Connor McDavid—Zack Kassian
  • James Neal—Ryan Nugent-Hopkins—Alex Chiasson
  • Jujhar Khaira—Riley Sheahan—Josh Archibald
  • Markus Granlund—Gaetan Haas—Sam Gagner
  • Joakim Nygard, Colby Cave
  • Darnell Nurse—Adam Larsson
  • Oscar Klefbom—Joel Persson
  • Kris Russell—Matt Benning
  • Caleb Jones
  • Mikko Koskinen (Mike Smith)

Edmonton will start the season with Persson, Sheahan and Kyle Brodziak on IR. Brandon Manning in place of Caleb Jones, Patrick Russell made the team over Sam Gagner. Bear and Jurco sitting in for Persson and Sheahan.

I projected this year’s Oilers to have a -11 goal differential (239-250) and 88 points in the standings (falling shy of the postseason by six or seven points). None of the tweaks by management and coaching staff changes my August trajectory.

SAM GAGNER

Sam Gagner getting waived was a surprise and honestly I suspect he’ll be back sooner than later. Despite having some warts, Gagner is a talented offensive player. I expect an offensive dry spell of two or more games has the team assessing the decision.

WHAT TO EXPECT FROM OCTOBER

  • At home to: Vancouver, Los Angeles (Expected: 1-1-0) 
  • On the road to: NYI, NJD, NYR, CHI (Expected 2-1-1) 
  • At home to: Philadelphia, Detroit (Expected 1-1-0)
  • On the road to: Winnipeg, Minnesota (Expected 1-1-0)
  • At home to: Washington, Florida (Expected 1-1-0) 
  • On the road to: Detroit, Columbus (Expected 1-1-0)
  • Overall expected result: 7-6-1, 15 points in 14 games 
  • Current results: 0-0-0, 0 points after no games

I have the Oilers getting off to a nice start before going 4-4-0 to complete the month. The early schedule has enough average or worse teams, making it possible for coach Dave Tippett to find a rhythm that works for his roster. Goals will be less of a problem if the team can cut down on the GA. Last year’s totals (229-271) had Edmonton scoring 15 fewer goals than average. The big number came in GA, where the Oilers were fully 27 goals below average. The per game totals were 2.79-3.30, one hopes Tippett can get them closer to 3.00 GA per game.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning, TSN1260 we begin at 10. Simon Boisvert, our prospect insider, gets things rolling at 10:20 and we’ll be joined by Andrew Peard (Oil Kings play-by-play) at 11 to talk about a tough weekend (shakes fist at Dylan Cozens). Waivers will be front and center, I do not expect the Oilers to make a claim. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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280 Responses to "The Next Waive"

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  1. ArmchairGM says:

    digger50: I’m not married to Broberg, but the package seems too high for Drouin , who seems skilled but looks to be struggling again with his second team.

    However, if this offer was true, I’m happy that Holland was in the game and trying. Walking away from a deal he doesn’t like is a positive sign as well. So even as I support him declining a deal he doesn’t like, I’m still hoping for a top 6 high skilled winger.

    Yes, he’s in the market but not willing to overpay. Very encouraging, if true. Not like the last guy at all.

  2. northerndancer says:

    SwedishPoster: Why would you replace Granlund with a LHD in Djoos?

    One thing I like with Djoos is that american play by play guys tend to pronounce his name ” Christian jews”.

    I giggled at this. Probably inappropriately but I did so. Thanks SP

  3. Harpers Hair says:

    Two.

  4. Harpers Hair says:

    pts2pndr: Right you go with that!

    I will.

  5. Scungilli Slushy says:

    ArmchairGM: I would trades Jones before Samorukov too. Does he have more value than Samorukov or less? His ceiling is lower buthis floor is higher – and he’s pretty much NHL ready.

    Would you trade Jones + JP + 2020 2nd for Drouin?

    Drouin to me is another hotshot who doesn’t have the chops to out score everything he won’t do. To me if you’re smallish and one dimensional 1 PPG is the floor.

    He is in his offensive prime at 24. Not worth the hassle. Any decent player stapled in the top 6 for 82 will get 40-50 points. The question is did it help the team?

  6. treevojo says:

    Rebillled:
    treevojo,

    Danny DeVito

    I had burnt that Batman out of my memory till this moment.

    Thanks for that.

  7. ArmchairGM says:

    Darth Tu: Ignoring the cap space issues – Samorukov and Pulju on it’s own should be enough to get it done. No need to throw in the second round pick.

    I’m a huge fan of Samorukov as a prospect so wouldn’t want to see him go, but we are rather flush with D prospects. Drouin isn’t working out for Montreal, but on his day can be fantastic. Maybe playing leftwing for Drai or McDavid would finally get the best out of him. Plus he can play centre (Oh Montreal, you jokers).

    In short. I do it, but not for 2 players plus the pick.Pulju + the second would also be acceptable.

    I agree that the alleged trade proposal would be tough to swallow, but I can see why it would be tempting. Drouin is only 24 – just 7 months older than Draisaitl and a month younger than Nurse – and he has scored about 50 points in each of the last 3 seasons. He has 4 years left on his deal, too. Tempting, but if Samorukov continues on his trajectory he’ll be worth as much as Drouin (or more) all by himself in 6 months. No need to make a panic trade today.

  8. ArmchairGM says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Drouin to me is another hotshot who doesn’t have the chops to out score everything he won’t do. To me if you’re smallish and one dimensional 1 PPG is the floor.

    He is in his offensive prime at 24. Not worth the hassle. Any decent player stapled in the top 6 for 82 will get 40-50 points. The question is did it help the team?

    He should do significantly better than 40-50 per 82 in the Oilers top-6, especially if he gets PP or McDavid time.

  9. hunter1909 says:

    THE SANDS OF TIME ARE BEGINNING TO RUN OUT

    Hunter1909’s Official 2019-20 Death March™

    Entries welcome between now and the first puck drop of the 2019-20 season(October 2)

    Here’s how you play: Guess how many points the Oilers get in the regular season.

    That’s it!

    Tie break: How many regular season goals does JP score for his new Finnish team?

  10. hunter1909 says:

    CLASSIC DEATHMARCH™ INFO-COMMERCIAL:

    Hunter1909’s Oilers Death March™ is back for the 2019-20 season!

    Here’s how you play: Pick the exact number of points you think the Oilers will have at the end of the season.

    Then, after the usual training camp hypejobs stop and the real NHL starts, Oilers usually lose 2-3 defencemen and spent the rest of the season chasing/debating the lottery. What better way to enjoy those pointless, meaningless games than The Hunter1909 Official Oilers Death March™?

  11. Jethro Tull says:

    Nit64: ~ Actually he’s scheduled for elective preemptive shoulder surgery. We now have a forward thinking staff ~

    He’s going to have six or seven identical surgeries that help but don’t fix the problem. Some of these will.be inexplicably expensive despite being identical.

    He will then be offered the correct surgery, for free, but will decline because, alas, what is to be done? If the free surgery was that good 31 other people with wildly different problems would have done it.

  12. Munny says:

    What is the source of the alleged Habs-Oil trade discussion?

    I’d say if Bergeron countered with Broberg, he had no real intention of trading Drouin except for a massive overpay. Two 1sts and a 2nd for a second line player is beyond ridiculous.

  13. pts2pndr says:

    ArmchairGM: I would trades Jones before Samorukov too. Does he have more value than Samorukov or less? His ceiling is lower buthis floor is higher – and he’s pretty much NHL ready.

    Would you trade Jones + JP + 2020 2nd for Drouin?

    Wouldn’t throw in the draft choice. Jones plus JP yes.

  14. Harpers Hair says:

    If Samurkov is your hill to die on you’d better just fold your tent.
    A distant bell so far away you can’t hear it from here.
    Good grief.

  15. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair:
    If Samurkov is your hill to die on you’d better just fold your tent.
    A distant bell so far away you can’t hear it from here.
    Good grief.

    Geez your depressing. If you can’t see the potential your not paying attention.

  16. Harpers Hair says:

    Reja: Geez your depressing. If you can’t see the potential your not paying attention.

    There are hundreds of distant bells.
    Hundreds.

  17. jtblack says:

    TSN PANEL has Edm finishing 3rd last in the WEST.

    Could be another Top 10 pick heading our way 😭

  18. Lowetide says:

    Harpers Hair:
    If Samurkov is your hill to die on you’d better just fold your tent.
    A distant bell so far away you can’t hear it from here.
    Good grief.

    Samorukov spiked in a big way one year ago. I don’t think it is wise to deal him, not until we know what he is.

  19. Dac189 says:

    OilClog,

    Who would be the 7th best player on the team? Neal or Kris Russel?

  20. who says:

    Reja: Geez your depressing. If you can’t see the potential your not paying attention.

    Actually trading Samarukov for immediate help on the wing makes a lot of sense. Especially if they are planning to sign Nurse long term.
    Leaves you with Klefbom, Nurse and Russell for this year. Klefbom, Nurse and Russell/ Jones/ Lagesson for next year. And Broberg pushing up after that.
    Dealing from the teams 1 position of strength makes sense to me.
    Samarukov and JP for Drouin would be ideal. If I had to add a 2nd I would insist on the Habs taking a salary like Gagner.

  21. who says:

    Lowetide: Samorukov spiked in a big way one year ago. I don’t think it is wise to deal him, not until we know what he is.

    I do agree with this.
    Waiting for 1 more year would provide a lot more clarity, but at some point they are going to have to deal at least 1 high ceiling lefty dman. They just don’t have room for them all.

  22. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: There are hundreds of distant bells.
    Hundreds.

    Distant Goalies have a better chance of hitting then distant right D who have a better chance of hitting then distant left D who have a better chance of hitting then distant Centres who have a better chance of hitting then Distant right wingers who have a better chance of hitting then distant left wingers.

  23. Harpers Hair says:

    Lowetide: Samorukov spiked in a big way one year ago. I don’t think it is wise to deal him, not until we know what he is.

    Unless you deal for someone who has already shown has shown what he is.
    Continually hoping and wishing on a prospect keeps you in hell.

  24. Reja says:

    who: Actually trading Samarukov for immediate help on the wing makes a lot of sense. Especially if they are planning to sign Nurse long term.
    Leaves you with Klefbom,Nurse and Russell for this year. Klefbom,Nurse and Russell/ Jones/ Lagesson for next year. And Broberg pushing up after that.
    Dealing from the teams 1 position of strength makes sense to me.
    Samarukov and JP for Drouin would be ideal. If I had to add a 2nd I would insist on the Habs taking a salary like Gagner.

    I wouldn’t unless it’s a heavy overpay and no GM is going to do that until they see him in the show.

  25. JimmyV1965 says:

    ArmchairGM: Apparently Holland offered Samorukov, Puljujarvi and a 2nd for Drouin,but MTL countered with Broberg instead of Samorukov. Holland declined.

    Would you do that deal?

    Very interesting. I find it very unlikely any team would trade a player they just drafted in the top 10. I don’t think most people are wired that way. I like Drouin, but I’m not sure he has a ceiling above 55 pts. There will eventually be better value deals out there I think. Would really help the team though. Our second rounder had the potential to be very valuable in what’s supposed to be a very strong draft.

  26. oilersfan says:

    Hunter: 94 points and Jesse scores 18

  27. Jethro Tull says:

    Never, ever, EVER fall in love with prospects.

    They’ll break your heart every time.

    How many and how long and some still haven’t learned this?

  28. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    pts2pndr,

    Funny… less than 2 months ago people were writing Bear off as a throw-in on JP trades and saying no way to trading Jones and also penciling him in the staring lineup. Now it’s the other way around.
    Man we’re a fickle bunch aren’t we…

  29. Jethro Tull says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    pts2pndr,

    Funny… less than 2 months ago people were writing Bear off as a throw-in on JP trades and saying no way to trading Jones and also penciling him in the staring lineup. Now it’s the other way around.
    Man we’re a fickle bunch in Edmonton aren’t we…

    I don’t think we’re fickle. More binary and susceptible to false equivalency.

    A bad trade is made, therefore all trades are bad.

    A good player makes a mistake, therefore he’s terrible.

    A bad player does one thing good, therefore he must stay in the line up.

    You cannot prove I’m wrong, therefore I’m right.

    There’s so much smudged grey, but people still think in polarizing terms.

  30. JimmyV1965 says:

    Harpers Hair: Unless you deal for someone who has already shown has shown what he is.
    Continually hoping and wishing on a prospect keeps you in hell.

    I’m not sure what your statement means, but waiting for a real prospect to develop before trading him doesn’t make the top 100 reasons why the Oilers suck. Drafting and developing real prospects is in the top 5 of course.

  31. leadfarmer says:

    Harpers Hair: Unless you deal for someone who has already shown has shown what he is.
    Continually hoping and wishing on a prospect keeps you in hell.

    No.
    Trading a High first round pick for JT Miller when you know an expansion draft is coming soon is what keeps you in Hell

  32. Wilde says:

    hunter1909,

    Hunter, put me down for the Oilers finishing with 79 points and Puljujärvi with 17 goals, ty and god bless

  33. jp says:

    Jethro Tull: I don’t think we’re fickle. More binary and susceptible to false equivalency.

    Multivariable works here too, I think.

  34. Wilde says:

    ArmchairGM: Apparently Holland offered Samorukov, Puljujarvi and a 2nd for Drouin,but MTL countered with Broberg instead of Samorukov. Holland declined.

    Would you do that deal?

    What’s the source on this? This is a pretty revealing set of events.

  35. LoDog says:

    94 points for the Oilers and 11 goals for JP please and thank you Hunter.

    I dont think Sprong is very good at the defense so doesnt really matter how many goals he scores.

  36. Jethro Tull says:

    Wilde: What’s the source on this? This is a pretty revealing set of events.

    An insider tweeting as Cheat Pia Relli.

  37. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    ArmchairGM: Apparently Holland offered Samorukov, Puljujarvi and a 2nd for Drouin,but MTL countered with Broberg instead of Samorukov. Holland declined.

    Would you do that deal?

    No

  38. Yeti says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Never, ever, EVER fall in love with prospects.

    They’ll break your heart every time.

    How many and how long and some still haven’t learned this?

    I’ve never fully recovered from the hole left in my soul by prospect Cameron Abney. He should have been the power forward playing wingman for Connor this season. Instead he’s likely stacking shelves at the local IGA. Cruel world.

  39. Wilde says:

    Jethro Tull,

    If true it’s pretty nutty because Drouin isn’t really a 5v5 offensive guy – he’s best described as something like a Nuge with inverted instincts.

    I don’t think the (first) price is outrageous, but this would have been /the/ move. That’s what they’re buying? Powerplay offense? It’s either they don’t know Drouin, or they don’t know the 17/18-18/19 Oilers.

  40. treevojo says:

    jtblack:
    TSN PANEL has Edm finishing 3rd last in the WEST.

    Could be another Top 10 pick heading our way

    2 years ago tsn panel had oilers winning the cup.

    How was the parade?

  41. Jethro Tull says:

    Yeti: I’ve never fully recovered from the hole left in my soul by prospect Cameron Abney. He should have been the power forward playing wingman for Connor this season. Instead he’s likely stacking shelves at the local IGA. Cruel world.

    Yeah but 15% off groceries on the 1st of the month, though.

  42. HT Joe says:

    treevojo: 2 years ago tsn panel had oilers winning the cup.

    How was the parade?

    Agreed… that TSN team ALWAYS overestimates the Oilers. 3rd last is very generous indeed. 2nd last or bust. 😉

  43. drglen says:

    treevojo: 2 years ago tsn panel had oilers winning the cup.

    How was the parade?

    that’s pretty funny.

    I have them pushing Vancouver for 3rd in pacific.. … I think we match up well versus pacific division. Like Leon said, we lost a lot of one goal games because of PK and poor team defense.. ( ah and getting scored on the first shot every game.. also that)..

  44. Jethro Tull says:

    Wilde:
    Jethro Tull,

    If true it’s pretty nutty because Drouin isn’t really a 5v5 offensive guy – he’s best described as something like a Nuge with inverted instincts.

    I don’t think the (first) price is outrageous, but this would have been /the/ move. That’s what they’re buying? Powerplay offense? It’s either they don’t know Drouin, or they don’t know the 17/18-18/19 Oilers.

    Easily worth JP and a second. We haven’t even given him a shot on McDavid’s wing.

  45. drglen says:

    Wilde,

    It’s ‘buy low’ time on Drouin, and if that wasn’t offered.. don’t bite, which they didn’t.

    interesting to hear Hollands interview today… how the Europeans looking to play in NHL don’t cost you anything… they just make the team on entry level contract. ..

  46. drglen says:

    Jethro Tull,

    hey I forgot about that… JP .. .. as he progresses. Interesting option.

  47. drglen says:

    leadfarmer,

    expansion draft… forgot about that too!

    Smith.. save some shots. End of the day…. Smith has to stop some pucks this year.

  48. Munny says:

    Jethro Tull: Easily worth JP and a second.

    I would’ve paid this, if the deal is legit, but no way am I throwing in a 3rd quality asset.

  49. pts2pndr says:

    Harpers Hair:
    If Samurkov is your hill to die on you’d better just fold your tent.
    A distant bell so far away you can’t hear it from here.
    Good grief.

    Logic says that you don’t need Jones at this time for left D. Samorukov has a higher ceiling and will be a cheap replacement when required 2 – 3 years down the road. It is not a hill to die on but why trade a future need if you can make the deal with a piece not needed at this time. It’s called forward thinking and unfortunately somewhat uncommon. The magpie goes after bright and shinny. All that glitters is not gold. If Drouin was the final piece to a championship fine, you make the deal but from what I know he isn’t the final piece so why overpay.

  50. Wilde says:

    pts2pndr,

    People are crazy low on Jones.

    So I’m listening to Holland’s avail and I don’t know if anyone caught this, but when Terry Jones asked him about if he had any hesitation about doing ‘the thing he usually does’ [sending prospects down for a little extra] and Holland’s answer created a category of players that said were going to ‘impact this franchise down the road’.

    In it, he listed Bouchard, Yamamoto, Samorukov, Benson, McLeod – Marody and Jones missing.

    I hope that’s nothing. Both are NHL players imo.

  51. ArmchairGM says:

    Harpers Hair:
    If Samurkov is your hill to die on you’d better just fold your tent.
    A distant bell so far away you can’t hear it from here.
    Good grief.

    First, I haven’t witnessed anyone dying on Samorukov Hill. Second, credible observers have noted that he’s much closer to the NHL than we might have thought. If you cannot hear the distinct peel from here I suggest you get your hearing checked.

  52. Munny says:

    Bianca Brief…

    Same story as 1st round. Bianca plays like shit and wins. Over 30 unforced errors in the second set alone, can’t get her first serve in, 7 DFs but always seemed to get it together on the important points. Would like to see her play more comfortable and confident though.

    6-3
    7-6 (7-5)

    She gets a quallie in the next round, hopefully she starts to get her game together.

  53. ArmchairGM says:

    Harpers Hair: There are hundreds of distant bells.
    Hundreds.

    Pronman ranks Samorukov well within the top 100 prospects, Otten and Mackenzie both called him the best defenseman in the OHL. So your blathering about “hundreds” is just that – blathering.

  54. ArmchairGM says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Never, ever, EVER fall in love with prospects.

    They’ll break your heart every time.

    How many and how long and some still haven’t learned this?

    Straw man.

  55. ArmchairGM says:

    Munny:
    What is the source of the alleged Habs-Oil trade discussion?

    I’d say if Bergeron countered with Broberg, he had no real intention of trading Drouin except for a massive overpay.Two 1sts and a 2nd for a second line player is beyond ridiculous.

    Wilde: What’s the source on this? This is a pretty revealing set of events.

    I do not have a public source. I introduced it here as a discussion point on the value of various prospects and players.

  56. ArmchairGM says:

    who: Actually trading Samarukov for immediate help on the wing makes a lot of sense. Especially if they are planning to sign Nurse long term.
    Leaves you with Klefbom,Nurse and Russell for this year. Klefbom,Nurse and Russell/ Jones/ Lagesson for next year. And Broberg pushing up after that.
    Dealing from the teams 1 position of strength makes sense to me.
    Samarukov and JP for Drouin would be ideal. If I had to add a 2nd I would insist on the Habs taking a salary like Gagner.

    Another thing to keep in mind: we have 4 defensemen who lose their waiver eligibility next summer, therefore should either be earmarked for the NHL in 2020-21 or traded. We still need to find out more about them – hence the Sekera buyout to make room for them in the NHL this year (hopefully they each get at least 20 games) – but these guys should be the trade bait next spring / summer IMO, not the younger prospects.

  57. ArmchairGM says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    pts2pndr,

    Funny… less than 2 months ago people were writing Bear off as a throw-in on JP trades and saying no way to trading Jones and also penciling him in the staring lineup. Now it’s the other way around.
    Man we’re a fickle bunch aren’t we…

    I think it’s more a case that we have 4 defensemen who lose their waiver eligibility next summer, one or more of them will likely be traded. At this point we don’t know who it makes sense to keep so we’re speculating, not writing anyone off. IMO if Jones, Bear, Lagesson and Persson all show proficiency in the NHL this year some will be kept and some traded, depending on who we need most and who we have room for. So get used to the idea…

    Of course, maybe Holland trades Benning and Russell next summer and runs

    Nurse-Larsson
    Klefbom-Persson
    Lagesson-Bear
    Jones

    and none of them get traded, but this seems somewhat unlikely. I think most fans have accepted that this year is about discovery with these four and not all of them will be with the organization next fall.

  58. jp says:

    Wilde:
    pts2pndr,

    People are crazy low on Jones.

    So I’m listening to Holland’s avail and I don’t know if anyone caught this, but when Terry Jones asked him about if he had any hesitation about doing ‘the thing he usually does’ [sending prospects down for a little extra] and Holland’s answer created a category of players that said were going to ‘impact this franchise down the road’.

    In it, he listed Bouchard, Yamamoto, Samorukov, Benson, McLeod – Marody and Jones missing.

    I hope that’s nothing. Both are NHL players imo.

    Well, if you have to ask the question…

    But yeah I noticed that too, and I feel like the omissions were even more egregious in real time than they seem here in written form.

  59. Pouzar says:

    Jethro Tull: I don’t think we’re fickle. More binary and susceptible to false equivalency.

    A bad trade is made, therefore all trades are bad.

    A good player makes a mistake, therefore he’s terrible.

    A bad player does one thing good, therefore he must stay in the line up.

    You cannot prove I’m wrong, therefore I’m right.

    There’s so much smudged grey, but people still think in polarizing terms.

    This needs to be a sticky.

    Make it happen GoDaddy!

  60. Jethro Tull says:

    ArmchairGM: Straw man.

    How so, exactly? Defend your position, damn your eyes to Hades!

    I have long advocated better prospect evaluation. I have long advocated a moving prospect pipeline where there is either a place on the first team to step into, or he is traded for an area of need.

    “Can’t trade this guy, because any future success he’ll have will be used to judge the decision of the past, which was to cut bait on him as it obviously was not working out for either party at that time. Then we’d look stupid.”

    What I don’t advocate is hanging on to a prospect so long without using him that it sours everything – trade value, young player’s career, player-team relationship etc, on the half-baked narratives that “he’s got all the tools” or “has a high ceiling” or “never got a decent chance with McDavid.”

  61. Lowetide says:

    For The Athletic: Ken Holland has a plan for the Oilers’ top prospects

    https://theathletic.com/1258489/2019/10/02/lowetide-ken-holland-has-a-plan-for-the-oilers-top-prospects/

  62. Jethro Tull says:

    ArmchairGM: Apparently Holland offered Samorukov, Puljujarvi and a 2nd for Drouin,but MTL countered with Broberg instead of Samorukov. Holland declined.

    What? You said, “Apparently Holland offered Samorukov, Puljujarvi and a 2nd for Drouin,but MTL countered with Broberg instead of Samorukov. Holland declined.”

    That is not is not introducing for discussion. That is citing a thing that happened. If your source is off the books, fine, but I thought your meaning was fairly explicit.

  63. ArmchairGM says:

    Jethro Tull: How so, exactly? Defend your position, damn your eyes to Hades!

    I have long advocated better prospect evaluation.I have long advocated a moving prospect pipeline where there is either a place on the first team to step into, or he is traded for an area of need.

    “Can’t trade this guy, because any future success he’ll have will be used to judge the decision of the past, which was to cut bait on him as it obviously was not working out for either party at that time. Then we’d look stupid.”

    What I don’t advocate is hanging on to a prospect so long without using him that it sours everything – trade value, young player’s career, player-team relationship etc, on the half-baked narratives that “he’s got all the tools” or “has a high ceiling” or “never got a decent chance with McDavid.”

    I haven’t seen anybody arguing not to trade a prospect simply because he was their personal favourite in this thread. What I’ve seen is fans attempting to put realistic value on prospects in the context of the current depth chart and the player returning in suggested hypothetical trades. Those are not the same things.

  64. texmex says:

    Another kick in the junk…

    Matt Vensel
    @mattvensel
    ·
    8m
    The #Penguins have recalled John Marino after officially putting Bryan Rust on long-term IR. The impressive young blue-liner has made the team.

  65. ArmchairGM says:

    Jethro Tull: What?You said, “Apparently Holland offered Samorukov, Puljujarvi and a 2nd for Drouin,but MTL countered with Broberg instead of Samorukov. Holland declined.”

    That is not is not introducing for discussion.That is citing a thing that happened.If your source is off the books, fine, but I thought your meaning was fairly explicit.

    Deliberately quoting me out of context is intellectually dishonest. Please include the whole quote as it illuminates the intention of the post.

  66. ArmchairGM says:

    texmex:
    Another kick in the junk…

    Matt Vensel
    @mattvensel
    ·
    8m
    The #Penguins have recalled John Marino after officially putting Bryan Rust on long-term IR. The impressive young blue-liner has made the team.

    Interesting. Who knew he was NHL-ready? I certainly didn’t.

  67. Brad says:

    hunter1909,

    Give me 97 points, 12G for JP

  68. tileguy says:

    Does anybody have stompin Tom Connors going off in their brain today?

  69. texmex says:

    ArmchairGM,

    From 31 thoughts….. Diamond in the rough.

    He wasn’t gonna sign in Edmonton anyway, but still a kick

    21. John Marino is making a run at the Pittsburgh defence, and, even if he starts the season at AHL Wilkes-Barre, he’s going to play in the big league. The Oilers really liked Marino, who they took 154th in 2015. Playing at Harvard behind offensive wizard Adam Fox and Devils draftee Reilly Walsh — the team’s two leading scorers — Edmonton thought it had a diamond-in-the-rough. Marino, from North Easton, MA., had a connection with former Oiler GM Peter Chiarelli (may have played with Chiarelli’s son) and things changed after he was fired. It wasn’t exactly a secret, either, and the Oilers made the best deal they could with the defender one year from becoming an unrestricted free agent. Penguins look like they will benefit big.

  70. Wilde says:

    ArmchairGM:
    I do not have a public source. I introduced it here as a discussion point on the value of various prospects and players.

    I see. My sentiment stands, I suppose. Growing portfolio on Holland.

    jp: Well, if you have to ask the question…

    But yeah I noticed that too, and I feel like the omissions were even more egregious in real time than they seem here in written form.

    Yeah I wrote it in passiveish because I don’t feel like sounding the alarm.

    I’d say that Jones and Marody are making it this year or (chances are) never, though; with ‘making it’ defined as going on to chain multiple seasons together with the same team as a regular.

  71. Wilde says:

    texmex,

    Jesus, how badly did they slay those drafts with the picks they had?!

  72. jp says:

    Wilde:
    Yeah I wrote it in passiveish because I don’t feel like sounding the alarm.

    I’d say that Jones and Marody are making it this year or (chances are) never, though; with ‘making it’ defined as going on to chain multiple seasons together with the same team as a regular.

    It definitely was a little surprising and concerning. But you’re right not to sound the alarm either since it’s possible we’re reading something into nothing. Hopefully Jones/Marody do grab a full time spot with the Oilers in the next 6 months, they’re very clearly elite AHL players at a relatively young age.

  73. jp says:

    ArmchairGM: Deliberately quoting me out of context is intellectually dishonest. Please include the whole quote as it illuminates the intention of the post.

    I didn’t enjoy your exercise either, FWIW.

  74. Reja says:

    texmex:
    ArmchairGM,

    From 31 thoughts….. Diamond in the rough.

    He wasn’t gonna sign in Edmonton anyway, but still a kick

    21. John Marino is making a run at the Pittsburgh defence, and, even if he starts the season at AHL Wilkes-Barre, he’s going to play in the big league. The Oilers really liked Marino, who they took 154th in 2015. Playing at Harvard behind offensive wizard Adam Fox and Devils draftee Reilly Walsh — the team’s two leading scorers — Edmonton thought it had a diamond-in-the-rough. Marino, from North Easton, MA., had a connection with former Oiler GM Peter Chiarelli (may have played with Chiarelli’s son) and things changed after he was fired. It wasn’t exactly a secret, either, and the Oilers made the best deal they could with the defender one year from becoming an unrestricted free agent. Penguins look like they will benefit big.

    Smart move by Marino to bail after Pete got sacked. John knew he was to far down the depth chart in the Oilers organization with the waiver exemptions and the other good looking young D. He signs with a team that is thin on D and bang he’s getting a NHL paycheque.

  75. Jethro Tull says:

    ArmchairGM: Deliberately quoting me out of context is intellectually dishonest. Please include the whole quote as it illuminates the intention of the post.

    That was pretty much the whole quote, except “Would you do that deal”.

    It read as if you heard something about Holland trading for Drouin. One of us is being dishonest. It isn’t me.

  76. ArmchairGM says:

    Jethro Tull: That was pretty much the whole quote, except “Would you do that deal”.

    It read as if you heard something about Holland trading for Drouin. One of us is being dishonest. It isn’t me.

    “Would you do that deal?”

    “That is not is not introducing for discussion.”

    Clearly you missed the point of the post, and deliberately quoted only part of the post so you could attack yet another straw man. Dishonest.

  77. ArmchairGM says:

    jp: I didn’t enjoy your exercise either, FWIW.

    That’s fine. Your enjoyment is not my prime motivator for posting here. Nor my secondary motivator.

    But that’s not the point. The point was to get a sense of Oilers fans valuation on their prospects, which I think was successful, although on a microscopic scale.

  78. Twinkle Mo' Fo' Toes says:

    ArmchairGM: Interesting. Who knew he was NHL-ready? I certainly didn’t.

    I figured he was, if not very close. He got clobbered with DZ starts, while Fox, Walsh and freshman Rathbone got the OZ and PP assignments.

    Plus he is a great skater who passes well.

    I hope we hang on to Kemp who is trending the same way, but has more of a bite to his game.

  79. ArmchairGM says:

    Twinkle Mo’ Fo’ Toes: I figured he was, if not very close.He got clobbered with DZ starts, while Fox, Walsh and freshman Rathbone got the OZ and PP assignments.

    Plus he is a great skater who passes well.

    I hope we hang on to Kemp who is trending the same way, but has more of a bite to his game.

    Yes, I like Kemp. Not that I didn’t like Marino, I just didn’t see “NHL-ready” in his game. Good for him.

  80. Reja says:

    Don’t mess with Leon the Maschine

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