2019-20 Game 56: Blackhawks at Oilers

There’s a lot up in the air for the Oilers today, the roster is in a major state of flux. Connor McDavid’s knee, James Neal’s foot and goodness knows what else has the lineup status unknown as we speak. Given the choice between giving 97 an extra two days and turning this into a longer term issue, Oilers fans are all voting the same way. Make sure the captain is right. No exceptions.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, less than two coffees a month offer here. 

  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Trying to make sense of Connor McDavid’s injury and Darnell Nurse’s new contract with Oilers
  • New Jonathan Willis: Faced with uncertainty, Oilers hedge their bet on Darnell Nurse
  • New Lowetide: Oilers sign Darnell Nurse
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers Observations: A Connor McDavid scare, Leon Draisaitl’s back, boosting the top line and helping Zack Kassian
  • Lowetide: The Oilers trading their first-round pick is a bad idea
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: After a ‘long road’ to the NHL, Tyler Benson’s Oilers debut holds extra meaning
  • Mitch Brown: The Video Room: How Oilers’ Kailer Yamamoto overcomes his small stature to make dynamic plays
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Emotionless’ Oilers fail yet again to match passion from a week ago
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: 15 potential trade targets for the Oilers before the 2020 deadline
  • Lowetide: Drilling down on right-handed centres for the Oilers to target before the trade deadline
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers trade suggestions: 50 proposals from readers, with our verdict
  • Lowetide: If fast is the new big, the Oilers are trending in a very good direction
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ 2016 draft and the value of waiting five years
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘I got a text from Wayne Gretzky that I’ve still got saved’: 8 years later, Sam Gagner reflects on his 8-point night.
  • Lowetide: What’s next for Tyler Benson and William Lagesson after being called up by the Oilers?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Now it’s over’: With a new contract in hand, Zack Kassian ready to move on after Matthew Tkachuk fight
  • Lowetide: Why the Oilers are more likely to trade Adam Larsson than Kris Russell
  • Lowetide: Oilers prospects Evan Bouchard and Tyler Benson deliver best minor league performances in 20 years
  • Jonathan Willis: An updated list of which Oilers are most likely to be traded in 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto gives Oilers a midseason spark, one of the best in team history
  • Jonathan Willis: The Oilers’ road forward — and perhaps to a Stanley Cup — requires trusting the kids on defence
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Deciding what to do with Darnell Nurse, Mike Smith, Tyler Benson and Evan Bouchard

OILERS AFTER 56 GAMES

  • Oilers in 2015-16: 22-29-5, 49 points; goal differential -27
  • Oilers in 2016-17: 29-19-8, 66 points; goal differential +7
  • Oilers in 2017-18: 23-29-4, 50 points; goal differential -33
  • Oilers in 2018-19: 24-27-5, 53 points; goal differential -21
  • Oilers in 2019-20: 29-20-6, 64 points; goal differential +3

A win tonight and this year’s model catches the 103-point playoff team in the standings. What’s more, the goal differential between those two teams is in the range and we can say with authority the 2019-20 Oilers are a good hockey club. On pace for 95 points.

ON THE TENS

  • First 10 games: 7-2-1
  • Second 10 games: 5-4-1
  • Third 10 games: 5-4-1
  • Fourth 10 games: 3-6-1
  • Fifth 10 games: 6-2-2
  • Current 10 games: 3-2-0

It’s a tight start to this segment and the road trip to come is rife with monsters and outlaws. A win tonight means this 10-game segment will deliver no worse than 10 points (probably).

OILERS IN FEBRUARY

  • Oilers in February 2016: 1-4-0, two points; goal differential -16
  • Oilers in February 2017: 2-3-0, four points; goal differential -4
  • Oilers in February 2018: 1-3-1, three points; goal differential 0
  • Oilers in February 2019: 1-2-2, four points; goal differential -7
  • Oilers in February 2020: 2-2-0, four points; goal differential +1

Crazy February runs all down the line, this year’s team is the only one in plus numbers goal differential. A win tonight would be nice, and would mean the home stand got some real traction right at the end.

WHAT TO EXPECT IN FEBRUARY

  • On the road to: CAL, ARI (Expected 1-1-0) (Actual 1-1-0)
  • At home to: SJS, NAS, CHI (Expected 2-1-0) (Actual 1-1-0)
  • On the road to: TBY, FLA, CAR (Expected 1-1-1)
  • At home to: BOS, MIN (Expected 1-1-0)
  • On the road to: LAK, ANA, VEG (Expected 2-1-0)
  • At home to: WPG (Expected 1-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 8-5-1, 17 points in 14 games
  • Current results: 2-2-0, four points in four games

I have the Oilers going 1-1-1 on the road trip, the team will face quality this week but that’s usually when Edmonton is at its best.

OILERS 2019-20

I spoke to Sam Gagner yesterday (here) about his multiple roles on the roster this season and he gave a great answer. Based on yesterday’s lines without McDavid the line will run Gaetan Haas between Gagner and Alex Chiasson.

It’s insincere to call it a big test with 97 not in the lineup. It’s Everest. A very big game tonight, the word “eek” will be used one way or another tomorrow. Edmonton could eek out a win, or we could all be saying eek by the middle of the first period. Such is the way of injury when the best player on the planet has a Charley horse.

TRADE DEADLINE

I’m more convinced than ever that the Oilers will be active at the trade deadline, it’s a matter of what’s available and the prices. I don’t think Holland will grab anyone too spendy, which means no Kreider and maybe no Pageau or Kovalchuk.

I think Holland’s plan for the forwards will not be apparent until summer. I’ll have an article up at The Athletic about it later today or tomorrow morning.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning we hit the ground running with a full boat, TSN1260. Jonathan Willis from The Athletic will talk Darnell Nurse’s contract, Connor McDavid’s injury and the week to come. Seth Rorabaugh from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review will talk about the big Jason Zucker deal pulled off by the Penguins last night. Corey Graham and Andrew Peard update us on the Oil Kings at 11, while we are lining up a CFL guest for free agency at 11:20. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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559 Responses to "2019-20 Game 56: Blackhawks at Oilers"

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  1. fries n gravy says:

    A chance for Samwise, Son of Gagner, to show his quality.

  2. Andy Dufresne says:

    Agreed. 2ndi-sh is so HF Boards. 🙂

  3. Yeti says:

    Hopefully not how utterly screwed they are without him!

  4. Andy Dufresne says:

    Google translate says “pushing the river” 🙂

  5. OilClog says:

    I’ll fight anyone if they even try to suggest Peter Forsberg wasn’t every bit of generational as the like of Malkin, Jagr, Lindros.

    Injuries did him in, but there was no one and has been no one that could control the puck and do whatever he wanted when his team was set up in the offensive zone.

    His Avalanche years were incredible, he ate off everyone’s plate and licked his fingers in between.

    It wasn’t til 06/07 in a completely broken footed body that Peter Forsberg simply averaged a point per game. 40 in 40.

    Peter Forsberg was generational.

  6. Andy Dufresne says:

    I here ya.

    But it could be argued that Draisaitl has already put this team on his back for the past two months.

  7. Andy Dufresne says:

    As per Stauffers comment, It doesnt sound like the cavalry is arriving any time soon….

  8. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dicky94:
    Will probably be Granlund.

    Granlund missed the last Condors game with an injury.

    Well, Leon and his linemates have been leading this team offensively for most of 2020.

    Time for Leon to go full Leon and solidify his Hart by keeping this team afloat.

    Think about what he could do for his status in the NHL which is already bordering on to 5 player.

    Will be tougher now facing ALL tough comp.

    Can he do it? I have little doubt. Will he? Will be fun to find out.

  9. Andy Dufresne says:

    🙂

  10. Munny says:

    Granlund dealing with injury, not likely to be called up.

    Stauffer is betting it’s Benson.

  11. Nit64 says:

    fries n gravy:
    A chance for Samwise, Son of Gagner, to show his quality.

    Time for Sam to go on a PDO heater:

    Ganger 7%
    Caveman 50% (*)

    * on 2 shots. hee. hee.

  12. rickithebear says:

    Darth Tu:
    1-0 shut outs in every game.

    Are Ruseell and Manning coming back
    Russell – Larson 1st comp 1.90 evga/60
    Manning – Benning 2 Nd comp 0.82 evga/60
    Klef – bear 3 rd comp 1.66 evga/60

  13. rickithebear says:

    pts – gm. 64 – 55
    We are +9
    27 gm left.
    95 pts is +13 over 82gm.
    Likely 10 – 12 gm
    We go even 12 over 12.
    86pt – 67gm = +9
    We would need +4 over the last 15 gm.
    19 pts.

    10 of the last 14 gm are at home.

    Very good chance!

  14. Munny says:

    Spector: “There’s no scenario where Holland trades a 1st round pick or Bouchard this deadline, not even for Tatar”.

  15. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    HA!

  16. OriginalPouzar says:

    LMHF#1:
    Incorrect.

    You think a team would take an offer that was worse due to the predicament of the GM with a better offer? Not once unless it is personal BS like the Hamilton trade.

    Yup – don’t see Holland panicking and paying “ransom prices” because McDavid is out for a few weeks.

    Prices in a multi team market shouldn’t increase for a singular team based on circumstance. Market is set on what each team is willing to pay for the asset.

    I think we should be glad Holland didn’t make a big rental acquisition at high cost prior to this as we now get to see even more what this team is made of.

    A lot of info will be provided to Holland in the next 10 days or so leading to the deadline – his course will then be decided.

    Go Leon!

  17. OilClog says:

    151 playoff games
    171 playoff points
    19th all time in playoff points
    Only 5 players ahead of him in playoff points per game in the top 20 all time playoff point leaders.
    Gretz, Mess, Kurri, Crosby, Mario.

  18. npanciroli says:

    Love it

  19. Andy Dufresne says:

    HAAA! ohhhhhhh….f#ck….

    the razor thin line between “brilliant” joke and “groaner” was never more apparent than ^ this

    Well done.

    #BrilliantGroaner

  20. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    rickithebear: Are Ruseell and Manning coming back
    Russell – Larson 1st comp 1.90 evga/60
    Manning – Benning 2 Nd comp 0.82 evga/60
    Klef – bear 3 rd comp 1.66 evga/60

    If that POS Manning gets called up, I burn my Oilers jerseys.

  21. OilClog says:

    What does a Chris Tierney cost?

  22. Ice Sage says:

    I don’t get all the gnashing of teeth.

    Oilers won’t be out of playoff contention when 97 returns.
    Tippet has the team playing better defensively – that should scale up with extra effort and grind since players shouldn’t be ‘waiting for Connor to save us’.
    McD will be extra-rested and hyper-focussed when back – we all know his compete level.
    Good teams weather the loss of their best player… almost seems like a necessary sacrifice – see St Louis / Tarasenko, Pitt / Crosby. We’ll learn if the Oil aspire to that.

    maybe the sky is too blue where I am

  23. Darth Tu says:

    rickithebear: Are Ruseell and Manning coming back
    Russell – Larson 1st comp 1.90 evga/60
    Manning – Benning 2 Nd comp 0.82 evga/60
    Klef – bear 3 rd comp 1.66 evga/60

    I know you have your theories, but if you’re running Russell and Larsson as top pair, and Manning + Benning as your second pair, the Oilers definitely don’t win any games. Never mind 1-0.

    Manning should never see the NHL again. Ever. Period.

  24. OilClog says:

    This looks like something Pat Quinn would do, Lubo to the 3rd pairing with you!

    This is painful

  25. Professor Q says:

    OilClog:
    I’ll fight anyone if they even try to suggest Peter Forsberg wasn’t every bit of generational as the like of Malkin, Jagr, Lindros.

    Injuries did him in, but there was no one and has been no one that could control the puck and do whatever he wanted when his team was set up in the offensive zone.

    His Avalanche years were incredible, he ate off everyone’s plate and licked his fingers in between.

    It wasn’t til 06/07 in a completely broken footed body that Peter Forsberg simply averaged a point per game. 40 in 40.

    Peter Forsberg was generational.

    There is a video from a few years ago with him backhanding pucks from the blue line with one hand.

    They looked and sounded like slapshots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vfGdtfZ_uM

    Imagine a healthy Forsberg and a healthy Kariya (was Arnott still on the Predators at the time?) at the same time?

    Minus the Lost Year of the Snow Ducks (Selanne and Kariya going walkabout in Colorado), of course.

    If those two had gone off as expected in Colorado, with Sakic and Forsberg et al.? Too many HoFers!

  26. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I expressed my concern at the time that Tippet was lying about it being the “other knee”.
    I expressed my concern at the time of the Cave call-up (a centreman) that this was probably more serious than we were being led to believe.
    I need to express my concern on this site less often.

    It is too bad Marody has had such a tough year after such promise last year. Not that he was slated as 2C but if he had continued to progress as a 3C, he could help over the next few weeks.
    Where oh where is Ryan Strome? Oh right, he is now Sam Gagner.

    Anyway, this is adversity. Let’s hope they can keep the ship floating for the next few weeks and that Connor is in fact back at 100% when he returns.

    All you Cap-Heads – any advantage / disadvantage to having Connor on LTIR for 2-3 weeks. Would this qualify? Would it help cushion some cap space for other investments this year?

  27. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny:
    Spector:“there’s no scenario where Holland trades a 1st round pick or Bouchard this deadline, not even for Tatar”.

    I wouldn’t expect or want anything different.

    Tatar would be a solid add but he’s become over-rated in Oil Country in my opinion.

    He’s never broke 60 points and he’s one year away from requiring one of those UFA contacts for decline years. Meaning: we don’t want to resign him and he’s an extended rental. Not giving up the two top expansion draft exempt assets for this player.

  28. pts2pndr says:

    I hope they all ask for Draisaitl. Trying to get a one wing duck to fly is not going to work. Do the best you can with what you have. If you are able to survive until the trade deadline fine if not set yourself up for next year.

  29. Andy Dufresne says:

    HAA ha….Dont hold back BoP ! Tell us what you really think

    Sometimes it takes a career-length term to establish “generational” imo

  30. Andy Dufresne says:

    A Forced Time Out.

    The ultimate compliment.

    Thank You ACGM! 🙂

  31. Nit64 says:

    Ice Sage: Tippet has the team playing better defensively – that should scale up with extra effort and grind since players shouldn’t be ‘waiting for Connor to save us’.

    Grind away, Kenny, Dave and skaters. Voodoo time, goalers.

  32. Andy Dufresne says:

    If by Flu you mean time spent playing with Kassian…Im sure Godot has it at his finger tips. 🙂

  33. pts2pndr says:

    I think you are having way too much fun
    # don’t stop ?

  34. Darth Tu says:

    JimmyV1965: Domi would be perfect. The ask would be very very much higher than Kovy.

    So….. the 2nd, Kris Russell and Puljujarvi should get it done?

  35. Darth Tu says:

    To be fair to Tatar, he is on 52 points in 58 games. I’ll wager he breaks 60 points this season.

    I agree though, he’s not the answer for the price point.

  36. Andy Dufresne says:

    Thanks PT! 🙂

    But its lunch time 🙂

    An Aside:

    Everytime I see your handle (handle is old timey talk for screen name) Im like that fish swimming circles in the fish bowl who circles around to see the bubbles comiing out of the diver’s bell helmet like he’s seeing for the first time.

    Points to Ponder! Gets me every time. 🙂

    Im Old. 🙂

  37. Bank Shot says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Bag of Pucks,

    A poster who will remain nameless recently scoffed at my suggestion that Leon was a generational talent

    Generational dominate the league out of the box.

    In my lifetime:

    Gretzky, Lemiueux, Jagr (probably, its close), Lindros,Crosby, Malkin (probably), Ovechkin, McDavid.

    Jagr didn’t dominate the league until his 5th season, but I think the point is generally true. he was the outlier.

    It’s a recently made up term without any clearly defined meaning anyway though so who is to really say who belongs and who doesn’t. Draisaitl will have to win multiple major individual awards to get into the conversation.

  38. Andy Dufresne says:

    BoP’s on fire this morning!

    We’re taking turns cranking up that Las Vegas Golden Knights hand cranked siren!

    rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRR-OOOOOOWWWWWwwwwwwwoooo

  39. pts2pndr says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    As per Stauffers comment, It doesnt sound like the cavalry is arriving any time soon….

    It takes longer when they are still in boot camp,

  40. pts2pndr says:

    His frequent flyer miles should be looking good.

  41. Andy Dufresne says:

    Man…theres a Brandon Manning joke in there about jerseys and burning things….but I dont want to get timed out.

    #KnowYourAudience

  42. OilClog says:

    With Blake running the back end and Roy in net.. Sheeesh.

  43. OriginalPouzar says:

    Was thinking about PP1 as I was taking the hotel elevator down to the gym for workout 2 and then listened to Holland and Tippett.

    Sounds like Gagner and Kailer will get the first opportunities to fill in which I can understand.

    What I would actually prefer to see would be to put former PP-witch Nuge in the McDavid spot and actually put Bear in the prior-Nuge spot on his off-side. I think that could actually open up some solid opportunities.

    Doesn’t sound like that’s being contemplated but more of a “put someone new in McDavid’s spot”.

  44. Andy Dufresne says:

    We know Kenny’s a Grinder. We Believe Dave’s a Grinder. We know HH looks for dates on Grinder; But is the rest of this roster ready to grind?!?!

    We’ll know in about 5 hours

  45. Andy Dufresne says:

    haha…..analytical outliers….are ruining statistical analysis.

    #GermanOutlier

    #GenerationalTakesTime

  46. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Agreed. No need to divide the fan base any further.

  47. Munny says:

    Dylan Strome’s name was thrown around Bob’s show a lot today as a possible trade target.

    Healthy scratch for the Hawks tonight.

    “Performance related” according to the Hawks org.

  48. Richard Roma says:

    Munny: Malkin

    These aren’t Crosby’s Penguins. These are the Oilers. Big difference.

  49. OriginalPouzar says:

    Loved Holland’s response to the question of if the 1st round pick is in play for a rental type or short term type player:

    “What if we miss the playoffs?”

    Holland was clear that he is still looking at the big picutre – this season is very important he says but he’s got a bigger puzzle he’s piecing together. He knows they are 3 points out of 1st in the division (with a game in hand) but 4 points out of the playoffs (multiple games in hand).

    Its very clear that he wants to (and is going to) wait until the deadline to ensure this team is all but assured a playoff spot before giving up futures for shorter term help.

    Love the fact we have an experienced GM who will not panic and who knows the landscape and how detrimental it is to give up futures if the circumstances are not proper.

  50. v4ance says:

    Connor observing his teammates “let’s see what they show me…
    So the defenceman rock in the fetal position on their sides while the forwards rock sitting up”

  51. SwedishPoster says:

    So a quad contusion. Typically plays out as one of two different scenarios, you either barely miss any time at all, a few days maybe with just some soreness, or as in this case you’re out 2-3 weeks. And you can’t really tell which direction it’s heading until day two, three, thus the uncertainty yesterday. 2-3 weeks usually means you’re playing at the start of week three with contusions, it rarely drags on much longer, so he should be good to go by the Anaheim game maybe even against the Kings so 6-7 McDavid-less games. Hope the rest of the team bring their battle axes. It’s time to play hang on for dear playoff life hockey.

    Hopefully Leon can beast it while the rest of the team plays tight, tight, tight.

    Interestingly enough(not really) I’m currently myself recovering from a quad contusion I suffered almost exactly two weeks ago, our athletic careers have always been quite similar. Made a comeback on the training ground(soccer) yesterday but still didn’t feel quite ok so I couldn’t go full throttle. So mine will take two weeks plus though I’m pushing forty and haven’t had time to rehab(or sleep) because my kid was ill so I have better hope for McDavid to have a quick recovery.
    Though from the recent documentary we learned the he is a bit sloppy with his rehab so who knows…

  52. OriginalPouzar says:

    rickithebear: Are Ruseell and Manning coming back
    Russell – Larson 1st comp 1.90 evga/60
    Manning – Benning 2 Nd comp 0.82 evga/60
    Klef – bear 3 rd comp 1.66 evga/60

    Russell is skating on his own and improving – likely still at least a weak away.

    Manning is never going to play for the Oilers again and shouldn’t based on merit – his game has regressed in the AHL and he’s struggling at the AHL level.

    Combine that with his recent “incident” and there is essentially zero chance he plays against for the Oilers and probably unlikely he gets an NHL contract next year.

    I think Brandon is Europe bound.

    ——————–

    Do you really promote him on the Oilers and think his insertion in the lineup over any of Nurse, Klef, Larsson, Bear, Benning, Jones, Lagesson make the team better?

    Honest question and I’d like a shot and simple answer.

    I know at about EGA/60.

  53. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Except these GA/60 rates don’t factor in QoC the pairings face.

    Russell — Larsson were playing 3rd pair while Adam was returning from injury.
    Manning — Benning were playing 3rd pair while Matty carried an AHL callup who’s playing 3rd pair… IN THE MINORS
    Klefbom – Bear was a small sample size and was the only pairing you’ve listed who played any reasonable portion of their minutes against elite competition.

    Who you play with and against matters, Ricki. This isn’t news. Your theory has yet to address that factor.

  54. geowal says:

    I’m ready and hoping to be pleasantly surprised tonight, with a slow deterioration as lack of depth catches up to us until McDavids return, at which point we’ll be in basically the same point we are now…

  55. TheGreatBigMac says:

    Worse goaltending?

  56. ArmchairGM says:

    Darth Tu:
    To be fair to Tatar, he is on 52 points in 58 games.I’ll wager he breaks 60 points this season.

    I agree though, he’s not the answer for the price point.

    Domi, however, might be.

  57. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    I believe if Connor is off the roster for >2 weeks he can be retroactively placed on LTIR. There would be a benefit in that his cap hit would be pro-rated on a daily basis and applied to the cap space available at the trade deadline. But it’s not like we could just add Kopitar and be good to go. Also, the timing of his return to the roster is going to be right close to the TDL and this only gives other GMs leverage to increase their prices (not that I think Kenny will bite).

  58. speeds says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Ideally, a team would not want to leave next yrs 1st floating in the deal, so if EDM were to trade a conditional 2nd (condition being if they miss the playoffs, the pick is the 2020 2nd, if they make it, it is the 2020 1st), the acquiring team would be locked into 16-47ish OV. https://t.co/fTpi6Jal48— speeds (@hockeysymposium) February 11, 2020

  59. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Was thinking about PP1 as I was taking the hotel elevator down to the gym for workout 2 and then listened to Holland and Tippett.

    Sounds like Gagner and Kailer will get the first opportunities to fill in which I can understand.

    What I would actually prefer to see would be to put former PP-witch Nuge in the McDavid spot and actually put Bear in the prior-Nuge spot on his off-side. I think that could actually open up some solid opportunities.

    Doesn’t sound like that’s being contemplated but more of a “put someone new in McDavid’s spot”.

    It’s interesting – sometimes McDavid ends up on the left side and sometimes the right side. I’ve noticed it seems to befuddle the PKers when this happens, and usually results in a goal. I think this fluidity is why the PP is the most successful PP in two generations.

  60. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Munny,

    You probably caught this when Woody was interviewed by Bob, but Marody is week to week.

  61. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Still think any term that calls Lindros generational and Messier not is a fairly dumb descriptor.

    I see a difference in “Generational” and “becoming one of the most dominate of all time”

    You *know* the generational players before they play a game in the NHL.

    “Generational dominate the league out of the box”

    Lindros at 19 (rookie year) – 75 pts in 61 gp for 1.23/gm which is a 103pts pace
    Lindros at 20 – 97 pts in 65 gp for 1.49 pts/gm which is a 125pt pace

    Messier at 19 63pts in 72 gp for 0.875pts/gm which is a 73.5pt pace
    Messier at 20 88pts in 78gp for .1.13pts/gm which is a 95pt pace

    Messier was in a higher goals/gm era as well. Scoring was down a little when Lindros came in and died 4 years into his career:

    In 1982 the NHL AVERAGED 8.02 goals per game.
    In 1992 the NHL averaged 6.96 goals per game
    In 1995 the NHL averaged 5.97 goals per game
    In 1998 the NHL averaged 5.28 goals per game

    We are back up to 5.94 last season *breaks out party hats*

    Don’t let you memory of Messier in his prime (or just past it) cloud the fact that he was “a good player” at 19 and “very good” at 20.

    You *must* be killing it out of the box to be generational.

    As soon as you move those goal posts its like having the “NHL Hall of Fame” turn into the “NHL Hall of Pretty Good and the 1967 Leaves” like it has.

  62. Darth Tu says:

    ArmchairGM: Domi, however, might be.

    From here on out I’m going to keep shouting Domi in the futile hopes that somehow the hockey universe hears me and he ends up playing for the Oil. I like his game a lot.

  63. LadiesloveSmid says:

    I love Draisaitl, but I probably have him in the Eichel/Matthews/MacKinnon tier. Great company, but not McDavid & not generational.

  64. geowal says:

    Is this conversation silly at “generational” levels or merely “dominant” levels? Time will tell, I think it has to go off the rails a lot further to be generational.

  65. JimmyV1965 says:

    Darth Tu: So….. the 2nd, Kris Russell and Puljujarvi should get it done?

    I would think a first and high prospect, like JP maybe. Domi is still an RFA when his contract expires after next season. He’s much more valuable than Tatar IMO.

  66. ArmchairGM says:

    Darth Tu: From here on out I’m going to keep shouting Domi in the futile hopes that somehow the hockey universe hears me and he ends up playing for the Oil. I like his game a lot.

    He’s been demoted to 3C in Montreal. His 1.54 P/60 is 9th among Habs forwards with more than 200 minutes this season, and only 0.01 ahead of youngster Nick Suzuki. He has 1 goal + 2 assists in his past 14 games.

    The 14 games prior to that he had 6 goals + 9 assists for 15 points.

    He’d be a great addition to the top-6 here in Edmonton, and could play center until McDavid returns, then be 1LW.

  67. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bank Shot: Jagr didn’t dominate the league until his 5th season, but I think the point is generally true. he was the outlier.

    It’s a recently made up term without any clearly defined meaning anyway though so who is to really say who belongs and who doesn’t. Draisaitl will have to win multiple major individual awards to get into the conversation.

    Good catch.

    He doesn’t count then (by my definition)

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Munny,

    You probably caught this when Woody was interviewed by Bob, but Marody is week to week.

    Its really too bad that Marody has been hurt so much this year – never really gained traction to be able to build on last year. Hurt early in the year by Kale Kessey of all people (if I remember correctly)

    He’s been out for a while and he’s still week to week – won’t return for a while. Upper body injury – must be head.

    Granlund is lower body injury – may be back for the Condors tomorrow.

  69. Munny says:

    Yup, I did, but thanks in any case.

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    One benefit of the injuries and a guy like Cave being recalled, McLeod is getting a push – playing center now and getting some PP time.

    Of course, being away, I’m not watching the AHL (but am watching the NHL) but it sounds like he’s taking advantage and he did score a beauty last game.

  71. Bulging Twine says:

    Look at all these injuries around the league since the extended time off? Correlation?

  72. Darth Tu says:

    Yeah – I’m hoping that bump down to 3C clouds their thinking on him a little and lowers the value.

    Suzuki looks like he’s eating Domi’s lunch for being the second line centre – I think Domi plays better on the wing anyways, but the option of playing centre really helps out the Oilers, particularly if McDavid/Drai or Nuge are injured.

    Getting him re-signed is the biggest issues due to our cap shenanigans. Neal would have to go eventually, and/or Russell, or Larsson in the summer. if it was to work out.

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woody on Sammy:

    Had some good moments and had some hiccups – typical of young d-men learning in a man’s league.

    Some really good plays with puck at offensive blue line – great shot.

    Very happy with that part of his game.

    Continue to work on rush reads, getting back to pucks quickly and evade forcheckers coming quickly and continue to work on defensive matters like proximity to check.

  74. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    rickithebear: Are Ruseell and Manning coming back
    Russell – Larson 1st comp 1.90 evga/60
    Manning – Benning 2 Nd comp 0.82 evga/60
    Klef – bear 3 rd comp 1.66 evga/60

    Bottom 5 5 on 5 goal share Dmen over past 2 seasons – minimum 500 minutes played:

    Larsson – 36.3%
    Ferrarro – 36.1%
    Ericsson – 34.3%
    Manning – 31.5%
    Petrovic – 25.7%

    Hey look Mr. The Bear, two of your fav’s right at the bottom of the league!

    Apparently you need to have more skills than clearing the front of the net and keeping EVGA down to be an NHL Dman who helps his team win.

    Perhaps its “what you create minus what you give up” and when you create nothing, you better give up nothing to just break even.

    Feel free to mail that nugget to yourself and bury it under your porch.

  75. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    SwedishPoster:
    So a quad contusion. Typically plays out as one of two different scenarios, you either barely miss any time at all, a few days maybe with just some soreness, or as in this case you’re out 2-3 weeks. And you can’t really tell which direction it’s heading until day two, three, thus the uncertainty yesterday. 2-3 weeks usually means you’re playing at the start of week three with contusions, it rarely drags on much longer, so he should be good to go by the Anaheim game maybe even against the Kings so 6-7 McDavid-less games. Hope the rest of the team bring their battle axes. It’s time to play hang on for dear playoff life hockey.

    Hopefully Leon can beast it while the rest of the team plays tight, tight, tight.

    Interestingly enough(not really) I’m currently myself recovering from a quad contusion I suffered almost exactly two weeks ago, our athletic careers have always been quite similar. Made a comeback on the training ground(soccer) yesterday but still didn’t feel quite ok so I couldn’t go full throttle. So mine will take two weeks plus though I’m pushing forty and haven’t had time to rehab(or sleep) because my kid was ill so I have better hope for McDavid to have a quick recovery.
    Though from the recent documentary we learned the he is a bit sloppy with his rehab so who knows…

    Yeah, I suspect he is in the hyperbaric chamber right now.

  76. godot10 says:

    Munny:
    Dylan Strome’s name was thrown around Bob’s show a lot today as a possible trade target.

    Healthy scratch for the Hawks tonight.

    “Performance related” according to the Hawks org.

    Chicago discovered the problem with DeBrincat, but it a problem of their own making. 3 years $6.4 million per year..

    Character apparently does matter.

  77. Bling says:

    I’d like to see Holland get aggressive and move on from Larsson.

    He just isn’t enough of a threat with the puck on his stick and his foot speed does not allow him to be an elite shut down defender.

    Tippett has a famous quote where he talks about a time in the minors where his so called defensive D man turned out to be his worst D, while a smaller offensive guy was in fact his best. This was something born out of possession stats.

    I suspect Tipp is onto Larsson. Will Kenny listen?

  78. Bag of Pucks says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Building on what you’re saying, if we’re going to insist this ‘generational’ category has value, then it would seem to have two key requirements.

    1) You are a young phenom at the age of draft and immediately productive at an elite level from the time you enter the league

    2) Equally, if not more importantly than being a fast starter, you consistently compete for scoring titles and/or the individual trophies pertinent to your position for the first decade of your career minimum.

    Those two barriers to entry would restrict it to players like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovey, McDavid, etc.

    I would argue Malkin doesn’t belong in this cos he had troughs in that first decade that limited his production. If Forsberg doesn’t qualify as generational because of injuries, the same should apply to Malkin, Lindros. etc.

    Bossy does qualify if the above is the criteria. Came out of the gates with 53 goals and stayed at an elite level through his first decade. If he doesn’t qualify, then we’re saying this is partially an anecdotal term that has to include some predraft hype. Which makes it a bs term if that’s the case imho.

    Brodeur and Roy would also have to qualify. They were both elite from the get go. Roy wins the Conn Smythe as a rookie, Brodeur the Calder. Same with Ray Bourque and Denis Potvin who both start winning the Calder and then contend for Norris and Stanley for the next decade plus.

    Players like Selanne, Bure and Robitaille start at an elite level as rooks but can’t sustain it for a decade.

    Interestingly, two players widely regarded as the best at their positions with trophy cases full of team and individual hardware, Lidstrom and Hasek, don’t make the grade. Lidstrom, the best defenceman of his generation by a country mile, is not ‘generational.’ If that’s the case, what’s the point of the term? It seems like a very specific term meant solely for hyped draft picks that put up hall of fame numbers.

  79. Nit64 says:

    Bling: Tippett has a famous quote

    Good recall. Lots of folks mistakenly attribute that quote to Albert Einstein.

    The example he gave was about comparing results of one old style D and one new style D and making the TOI call on results not aura.

  80. Nit64 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Interestingly, two players widely regarded as the best at their positions with trophy cases full of team and individual hardware, Lidstrom and Hasek, don’t make the grade. Lidstrom, the best defenceman of his generation by a country mile, is not ‘generational.’ If that’s the case, what’s the point of the term? It seems like a very specific term meant solely for hyped draft picks that put up hall of fame numbers.

    D and G develop by sundial.

    For F that double screen gets you close to generational F lists

  81. Andy Dufresne says:

    I think you have to wait see if he has kids, and if his kids have kids, as so on, and so on.

  82. dustrock says:

    Hasek is not only generational, he’s likely the greatest goaltender of all time.

    Personally guys like Lindros and Forsberg don’t count because they didn’t play the games and define the league like the healthier guys.

    Lindros’ era-adjusted stats are ridiculous, he was Shaquille O’Neal, but you can’t have that limited a career and be generational.

  83. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Building on what you’re saying, if we’re going to insist this ‘generational’ category has value, then it would seem to have two key requirements.

    1) You are a young phenom at the age of draft and immediately productive at an elite level from the time you enter the league

    2) Equally, if not more importantly than being a fast starter, you consistently compete for scoring titles and/or the individual trophies pertinent to your position for the first decade of your career minimum.

    Those two barriers to entry would restrict it to players like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovey, McDavid, etc.

    I would argue Malkin doesn’t belong in this cos he had troughs in that first decade that limited his production. If Forsberg doesn’t qualify as generational because of injuries, the same should apply to Malkin, Lindros. etc.

    Bossy does qualify if the above is the criteria. Came out of the gates with 53 goals and stayed at an elite level through his first decade. If he doesn’t qualify, then we’re saying this is partially an anecdotal term that has to include some predraft hype. Which makes it a bs term if that’s the case imho.

    Brodeur and Roy would also have to qualify. They were both elite from the get go. Roy wins the Conn Smythe as a rookie, Brodeur the Calder. Same with Ray Bourque and Denis Potvin who both start winning the Calder and then contend for Norris and Stanley for the next decade plus.

    Players like Selanne, Bure and Robitaille start at an elite level as rooks but can’t sustain it for a decade.

    Interestingly, two players widely regarded as the best at their positions with trophy cases full of team and individual hardware, Lidstrom and Hasek, don’t make the grade. Lidstrom, the best defenceman of his generation by a country mile, is not ‘generational.’ If that’s the case, what’s the point of the term? It seems like a very specific term meant solely for hyped draft picks that put up hall of fame numbers.

    I can understand exactly where you’re coming from but you have too many names and so the idea of “generational” gets hopelessly diluted.

    If we say “Richard, Howe, Bobby Hull, Bobby Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid” there are at least 20 names that you can cherry pick based on various criteria and Ovechkin looks like he’s moving up the race like a dark horse based on goal scoring.

  84. Andy Dufresne says:

    Theres a Suncor mining site called Firebag.

    This ^ Bag is on Fire today!

  85. Munny says:

    The term was originally “generational talent”, not “player”.

    Ie, it had nothing to do with the career the player had/is having but the talent level at the time of evaluation (prospect years).

    Typically generational talent is only applied to players who reveal themselves very early Iife, ten twelve, fourteen years old. Kids who can play against older kids and still consistently score in bundles, based on talent not an early growth spurt. Despite being say six years from the draft, you already know they’re going number 1 overall.

    So the kind of kids that teams apply for early exemption status to the CHL to have them playing Jr A before they are age eligible.

    Lindros was a generational talent. He did not have a career to match, to be sure. But it does not change the label that he was a generational talent. He was.

  86. London Jon says:

    Darth Tu:
    1-0 shut outs in every game.

    1-0 shootout wins all the way!

  87. pts2pndr says:

    There is no such time if it’s good wiskey

  88. hunter1909 says:

    Munny:
    The term was originally “generational talent”, not “player”.

    Ie, it had nothing to do with the career the player had/is having but the talent level at the time of evaluation (prospect years).

    Typically generational talent is only applied to players who reveal themselves very early Iife, ten twelve, fourteen years old.Kids who can play against older kids and still consistently score in bundles, based on talent not an early growth spurt.

    The kind of kids that teams apply for early exemption status to the CHL to have them playing Jr A before they are eligible.

    Lindros was a generational talent.He did not have a career to match, to be sure.But it does not change the label that he was a generational talent. He was.

    It kind of ends up like 1977 punk rockers arguing whether something was considered to be punk or not. Some would argue that punk started with the Sex Pistols other would say the NYers still others would say Iggy and the Stooges etc.

  89. hunter1909 says:

    dustrock:
    Hasek is not only generational, he’s likely the greatest goaltender of all time.

    Personally guys like Lindros and Forsberg don’t count because they didn’t play the games and define the league like the healthier guys.

    Lindros’ era-adjusted stats are ridiculous, he was Shaquille O’Neal, but you can’t have that limited a career and be generational.

    Similarly, Guy Lafleur had 6 fantastic seasons but the rest wasn’t anywhere near as great.

  90. YKOil says:

    I generally start with this – would I trade that players first 10-12 years for any one other player in the league of the day?

    Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid

    I then give a bow to those whom the greats say were the greatest: Howe, Orr

    Then consideration to those who changed the league: Orr, Gretzky, McDavid

    Goalies are a whole other matter imo. Though, Hasek.

    The list should be short. The crazy bit – Crosby and Ovechkin starting same year – we watchers have been luckier than we know.

  91. Munny says:

    And I say “The Kinks” were the first.

    As for the groups you bring up… bunch of friggin copycats lol…

  92. pts2pndr says:

    Its never as good if you force it
    # so I’ve been told

  93. Andy Dufresne says:

    Well..

    Now that we’ve got that sorted.

    How many of these players are “transcendent”?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    grabs popcorn*, sinks back into sofa, and hits refresh….

    *preferred B(r)and… Iggy Pop

  94. Bag of Pucks says:

    Munny,

    Does John Tavares qualify? He was granted exceptional status to qualify for the OHL draft as an underager.

  95. YKOil says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Loved Holland’s response to the question of if the 1st round pick is in play for a rental type or short term type player:

    “What if we miss the playoffs?”

    Holland was clear that he is still looking at the big picture – this season is very important he says but he’s got a bigger puzzle he’s piecing together.He knows they are 3 points out of 1st in the division (with a game in hand) but 4 points out of the playoffs (multiple games in hand).

    Its very clear that he wants to (and is going to) wait until the deadline to ensure this team is all but assured a playoff spot before giving up futures for shorter term help.

    Love the fact we have an experienced GM who will not panic and who knows the landscape and how detrimental it is to give up futures if the circumstances are not proper.

    This is pretty much where I have been on this the whole year. I love the play-offs push and will be happy to cheer the team on if it makes it but this is a team that also needed to:

    – try to unload Russell sooner than later
    – get what it can for guys who are UFA or won’t be brought back (Gagner, et al)
    – try to dump off one of Chiasson or Neal or both
    – try to get Smith to agree to a trade

    Can’t pick up a Zucker if there are no assets with which to pay the price.

    Am totally fine that a sell-off didn’t/probably won’t happen, but the team needs quality depth in the worst way.

    Hopefully procurement comes through in the off-season.

  96. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Signed an extension with Nygard

  97. Andy Dufresne says:

    By my definition of generational, and make no mistake, we all define it the way we want to define it, No one is genertional who cant perform at an Elite Level while smoking two packs a day..

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    Nygard one year at 925K.

    Solid signing.

    Well under the fully buryable amount.

  99. Leroy Draisdale says:

    one year, probably around a million

  100. Andy Dufresne says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Munny,

    Does John Tavares qualify? He was granted exceptional status to qualify for the OHL draft as an underager.

    He was trending towards generational….and then he went and signed with the Leafs. 🙂

  101. Munny says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Munny,

    Does John Tavares qualify? He was granted exceptional status to qualify for the OHL draft as an underager.

    He was granted that status, and I’d say he was close, but no cigar. Someone else may have a different opinion. But yes, that is one of the signals, present day, but by no means a lock.

  102. pts2pndr says:

    Domi would check a couple of boxes

  103. Andy Dufresne says:

    Kenny’s no Tambellini.

    #TakinCareOfBusiness

  104. geowal says:

    Personally I would have filed this under “things to maybe do in June-August”, but I guess Ken is happy with him.
    -puckpedia has it at 875k. If so that would explain doing it now.

  105. YKOil says:

    Great signing imo.

    Kassian remains a slight overpay (you know me though, I liked a longer deal at a lower dollar value) but Jones and Nygard are spot-on.

  106. Bag of Pucks says:

    It sounds like ‘generational talent’ is meant to be the NHL equivalent of ‘musical prodigy?’ The guys that were born to be NHL HoFers and it was obvious by the time they were 12.

    Edward Van Halen won several prestigious California music competitions as a child piano player long before he ever picked up the guitar in his teens! In short, he was born/fated to be a gifted musician and that only became more obvious with each passing year.

    Basically the NHL seems to have coined a term for the “can’t miss kids.” The ones that were so glaringly obvious no scout could miss it. Just like Hendrix or Bird or Bonham however, the problem with some of these prodigies is sustaining it. For Bird, smack is the career ender. For Lindros, it’s Scott Stevens. lol

  107. Jethro Tull says:

    *Oilers lose world’s best player at a critical point of the season*

    Kenny: I got this.

    *Signs 3rd/4th liner with a broken hand*

  108. Oil2Oilers says:

    Trading Larsson for Kappenen to give Nuge a winger while we await McDavid’s return would be positive. Doing it today so he can join the team on the road trip would be ideal.

  109. v4ance says:

    Just to focus on goalies… who is generational?

    I throw Roy Brodeur Price Luongo and Lundquist on the list for sure.

    Hasek should be in there as well but the coaches in Chicago had no idea what to do with his unorthodox style so they stayed with Belfour. Once hasek got to Buf he showed exactly how good he was really.

    Amongst the newest crop of goalies… maybe Gibson… maybe Carter Hart? Jury is still out on them and a whole lot of other maybes

  110. jtblack says:

    I think BOP is mad that ppl aren’t agreeing that Draisatl is Generational, so the Goal Posts are getting moved all around …

  111. geowal says:

    It’s okay. He’s got 33 NHL games under his belt. He’s sure fire for next year.
    What’s that you say? There’s more season left? Huh.

  112. Munny says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    It sounds like ‘generational talent’ is meant to be the NHL equivalent of ‘musical prodigy?’ The guys that were born to be NHL HoFers and it was obvious by the time they were 12.

    Edward Van Halen won several prestigious California music competitions as a child piano player long before he ever picked up the guitar in his teens! In short, he was born/fated to be a gifted musician and that only became more obvious with each passing year.

    Basically the NHL seems to have coined a term for the “can’t miss kids.” The ones that were so glaringly obvious no scout could miss it. Just like Hendrix or Bird or Bonham however, the problem with some of these prodigies is sustaining it. For Bird, smack is the career ender. For Lindros, it’s Scott Stevens. lol

    I think that’s a fair analogy. I’m not sure hockey coined it though. It’s used in football and basketball too. I haven’t been able to divine the provenance of the term thus far.

  113. geowal says:

    Don’t you know? Brodeur is a fraud…

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oops, shit, I read it wrong – not $925, that was a reference to his current ELC.

    Sorry.

    Shouldn’t be much more though, I wouldn’t think.

  115. pts2pndr says:

    Jethro Tull:
    *Oilers lose world’s best player at a critical point of the season*

    Kenny: I got this.

    *Signs 3rd/4th liner with a broken hand*

    The sign of being a good leader is to keep you head (composure) while those around you are losing theirs.
    ?

  116. OriginalPouzar says:

    $875K for Nygard – less than his current ELC cap hit.

    Awesome.

  117. Munny says:

    $875k for Nygard per Gregor

  118. YKOil says:

    v4ance:
    Just to focus on goalies… who is generational?

    I throw Roy Brodeur Price Luongo and Lundquist on the list for sure.

    Hasek should be in there as well but the coaches in Chicago had no idea what to do with his unorthodox style so they stayed with Belfour. Once hasek got to Buf he showed exactly how good he was really.

    Amongst the newest crop of goalies… maybe Gibson… maybe Carter Hart? Jury is still out on them and a whole lot of other maybes

    Sawchuck (original Hasek), Plante (everything), Roy (butterfly), Brodeur (puckhandling), Hasek (just awesome)

    Those are the easy ones (sorry, forgot Sawchuck).

  119. Nit64 says:

    Profit: MRI shows exactly the injury”

    They did the MRI to get a 2nd opinion. First opinion was from Dr. Connor:

    “It’s kinda like a charley horse, kinda like a lower part of the quad, top of the knee part.”

  120. SwedishPoster says:

    Jethro Tull:
    *Oilers lose world’s best player at a critical point of the season*

    Kenny: I got this.

    *Signs 3rd/4th liner with a broken hand*

    The plan might be to put McDavid’s upper body on Nygård’s legs.

  121. VanIsleOil says:

    And some would say that true punk rock started in the mid-sixties with a band out of Peru.

    Los Saicos (The Psychos) burned brightly and briefly performing together for a few years and recording no more than a dozen songs.

    Now, thanks to an upsurge of interest and a recent documentary, the band – all in their sixties – have reformed and found their biggest following in half a century. (post prime punk 🙂 )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haVaaDLwWvI

  122. Bag of Pucks says:

    Personally i think it’s a good thing if a person has an open mind and is willing to consider wisdom that challenges his/her own biases.

  123. Jethro Tull says:

    We can rebuild him. We have the technology.

  124. Nit64 says:

    pts2pndr: The sign of being a good leader is to keep you head (composure) while those around you are losing theirs.
    ?

    It’s not the end of the world, but always good to know where your towel is.

  125. hunter1909 says:

    YKOil: The crazy bit – Crosby and Ovechkin starting same year – we watchers have been luckier than we know.

    Crazy was the Montreal Canadiens powerplay with Richard Beliveau Harvey Geffrion Moore , while Beliveau as centres go was anything of a slouch himself having captained his team to a 10 cup aged 38 beating an iconic failure of a 1971 Boston Bruin team en route.

  126. hunter1909 says:

    YKOil: Sawchuck (original Hasek), Plante (everything), Roy (butterfly), Brodeur (puckhandling), Hasek (just awesome)

    Those are the easy ones (sorry, forgot Sawchuck).

    For 2-3 seasons maybe Bernie Parent was unbeatable.

  127. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    “I feel for Tipp right now”

    Let us know if you find it.

    #CuriousMinds
    #DidItMove

    Did your breakfast cereal have more artificial coloring than usual this AM?

    Bag of Pucks:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Building on what you’re saying, if we’re going to insist this ‘generational’ category has value, then it would seem to have two key requirements.

    1) You are a young phenom at the age of draft and immediately productive at an elite level from the time you enter the league

    2) Equally, if not more importantly than being a fast starter, you consistently compete for scoring titles and/or the individual trophies pertinent to your position for the first decade of your career minimum.

    Those two barriers to entry would restrict it to players like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovey, McDavid, etc.

    I would argue Malkin doesn’t belong in this cos he had troughs in that first decade that limited his production. If Forsberg doesn’t qualify as generational because of injuries, the same should apply to Malkin, Lindros. etc.

    Bossy does qualify if the above is the criteria. Came out of the gates with 53 goals and stayed at an elite level through his first decade. If he doesn’t qualify, then we’re saying this is partially an anecdotal term that has to include some predraft hype. Which makes it a bs term if that’s the case imho.

    Brodeur and Roy would also have to qualify. They were both elite from the get go. Roy wins the Conn Smythe as a rookie, Brodeur the Calder. Same with Ray Bourque and Denis Potvin who both start winning the Calder and then contend for Norris and Stanley for the next decade plus.

    Players like Selanne, Bure and Robitaille start at an elite level as rooks but can’t sustain it for a decade.

    Interestingly, two players widely regarded as the best at their positions with trophy cases full of team and individual hardware, Lidstrom and Hasek, don’t make the grade. Lidstrom, the best defenceman of his generation by a country mile, is not ‘generational.’ If that’s the case, what’s the point of the term? It seems like a very specific term meant solely for hyped draft picks that put up hall of fame numbers.

    I don’t disagree with any of this, good work.

    Funny think about Hasek is that the retro-fancy stats loved him, but NHL decision makers didn’t.

    I am perfectly fine making the “generational” tier to be uber-tough to achieve and agree with you list and parameters.

  128. Reja says:

    My prediction Mcdavid will be back after the road trip, we desperately need 6 out of 10 points in the next 5 games if we’re going to make the playoffs. Time for everyone to step up it’s going to take a total team effort if they can weather the storm until Connor returns in a sick sort of way this will be the turning point of the season and they all know it. Oilers shock the world and win 4-1 tonight with Sammy and Chase stepping up to the plate and scoring.

  129. Dicky94 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Drai better get some points and widen the gap while McDavid is out. You can bet when he comes back healthy he will “GO NUCLEAR “! LETS GO OILERS!!

  130. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Edward Van Halen won several prestigious California music competitions as a child piano player long before he ever picked up the guitar in his teens! In short, he was born/fated to be a gifted musician and that only became more obvious with each passing year.

    You learn something new every day.

  131. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Nit64: D and G develop by sundial.

    For F that double screen gets you close to generational F lists

    The people on the cutting edge of G evaluation (Woodley, Silverman etc) actually agree with a posit Colby Cosh put forward a decade ago.

    “The best goalies are the best goalies when they’re in their early 20’s and bringing them along slowly does the team and player a disservice”

  132. hunter1909 says:

    Reja: we desperately need 6 out of 10 points in the next 5 games if we’re going to make the playoffs.

    Ha ha not quite but I get your excitement. Flames are floundering and the rest of the Pacific will continue to be a lol fest until April.

  133. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    By my definition of generational, and make no mistake, we all define it the way we want to define it, No one is genertional who cant perform at an Elite Level while smoking two packs a day..

    *Sergei Zubov laughs at this. Sets it on fire and lights his next smoke with it while playing 65 minutes in a ~120 minute game*

  134. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Nit64: It’s not the end of the world, but always good to know where your towel is.

    Hoopy Froods *always* know where their towel is.

  135. Andy Dufresne says:

    lol…Im old. My breakfast prunes are all natural.

    But i take your point. Its a fair comment. Ive been verbose today after not posting for three days.

    You’ve been a good sport, throughout the day. And informative as usual. 🙂

    Let me reciprocate.

    Fun Fact O’ The Day:

    All those colorful Fruit Loops (that you fought to get from the pack of six) ,,,, all of the loops…..where the same flavour.

  136. OriginalPouzar says:

    No news on the call-up yet.

    I think they might be waiting on info on Granlund.

    He missed last game with an injury but today Woody said he might be ready for tomorrow.

    Given he’s played center and has been a legit NHL player for most of his career, he does make sense if healthy.

    Could see Currie – the only real other option other than Benson.

  137. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Was thinking about PP1 as I was taking the hotel elevator down to the gym for workout 2 and then listened to Holland and Tippett.

    Sounds like Gagner and Kailer will get the first opportunities to fill in which I can understand.

    What I would actually prefer to see would be to put former PP-witch Nuge in the McDavid spot and actually put Bear in the prior-Nuge spot on his off-side. I think that could actually open up some solid opportunities.

    Doesn’t sound like that’s being contemplated but more of a “put someone new in McDavid’s spot”.

    Tippett HAS to be putting Nuge in McDavid’s spot and one of those right shots in Nuge’s spot, right? RIGHT??

  138. Reja says:

    hunter1909: Ha ha not quite but I get your excitement. Flames are floundering and the rest of the Pacific will continue to be a lol fest until April.

    It’s time for the Vets to step up Smith Gags Chase Kass we need the 2 points tonight whatever it takes show your Captain and the Oilers logo that we’re more then 1 player.

  139. Andy Dufresne says:

    I have only one word to say to this….

    PAMAMA!!!…..

    Pana-ma-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

    Pananma!

  140. Andy Dufresne says:

    HA! ha.

    You have convinced me to ammend my definition.

  141. Ice Sage says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    We know Kenny’s a Grinder. We Believe Dave’s a Grinder. We know HH looks for dates on Grinder; But is the rest of this roster ready to grind?!?!

    We’ll know in about 5 hours

    Oh dear that’ll inflame the troll – he’ll be angry that you didn’t spell it “Grindr” (and remind us of every other Oiler competitor who has a whiff of success, I always appreciate those updates while grinding)

  142. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    I can confirm that Gretz referred to Guy Lafleur in the same breath as Bobby when discussing generational talents who came before him. I believe it was in an interview around the NHL Top 100 event.

  143. jtblack says:

    I am very interested to see how the QofC faced by #2 line, which is now #1 line and how it all plays out …

    I think the line is good enough to win their minutes against the best matchups … what I am more worried about is what is left behind them for the other 40 minutes …

  144. Scungilli Slushy says:

    ArmchairGM: He’s been demoted to 3C in Montreal. His 1.54 P/60 is 9th among Habs forwards with more than 200 minutes this season, and only 0.01 ahead of youngster Nick Suzuki. He has 1 goal + 2 assists in his past 14 games.

    The 14 games prior to that he had 6 goals + 9 assists for 15 points.

    He’d be a great addition to the top-6 here in Edmonton, and could play center until McDavid returns, then be 1LW.

    Domi has a ton of value. Motor that won’t quit, speed, skill and fights well above his weight class.

    Perfect for Connor.

    The rub is a GM who knows what he wants and is ready to move when a colleague is in the moment of making a poor decision. Like Oiler GMs every day for years.

    I wouldn’t pay a ransom for very many players, I’d be ready for weak moments. Weak moments are a regular occurrence every season, but you have to know the league and the prospects which I don’t think the Oilers have since Sather and perhaps Lowe.

    Unfortunately Grinder is cap strung.

  145. Munny says:

    Goalies can’t be generational because voodoo.

    What you see at 16 isn’t necessarily what you get. And no one has ever been a starter at 18 (that I can find).

    Even back in the day, Plante, Hall, Sawchuk all those guys weren’t starters till they were at least 20. Marty Enterprise was 21.

    There are two exceptions to this pattern…

    Patrick Roy became the de facto starter for the Habs at 19 when Steve Penney was hurt in January, but he wasn’t the starter at the beginning of the year. He wasn’t drafted till the 3rd round and wasn’t even his Jr team’s starter in draft + 1. He made his name in that season’s Calder Cup run.

    He was also the 3rd goalie taken In his draft year. The Oil drafted Daryl Reaugh a round ahead of him in fact, in what was one of the worst Oiler drafts of all time (1984).

    The other exception is Tretiak who became starter for CSKA and Red Army at 18. If I had to name a generational goalie, I probably start with him.

    Hasek played a few games in Czech pro at 16, but didn’t become a starter till he was 23, and was in his fourth NHL year and 2nd year with Buffalo before he started posting gaudy numbers.

    MAF, who was a 1st overall and did come into the League with a lot of hype, wasn’t a starter till age 20.

    Edit: lol… Now that I’ve actually thought about it for longer than two seconds, Roy was 20 when Penney went down to injury, not 19. So only one exception, Tretiak, and there’s an asterisk because that’s not the NHL.

  146. v4ance says:

    YKOil: Sawchuck (original Hasek), Plante (everything), Roy (butterfly), Brodeur (puckhandling), Hasek (just awesome)

    Those are the easy ones (sorry, forgot Sawchuck).

    Here’s the funny thing, I can’t put Fuhr on the list of generational goalies even though he was a favorite of mine.

    He was good early and quality for many years but there was always a few guys better than him at many points of his career.

    Fuhr would go in the group with Belfour, Moog, Billy Smith, Vernon, Cujo, Fleury, etc. who are great goalies for one or two years but good for many other years.

  147. hunter1909 says:

    v4ance: Here’s the funny thing, I can’t put Fuhr on the list of generational goalies even though he was a favorite of mine.

    He was good early and quality for many years but there was always a few guys better than him at many points of his career.

    Fuhr would go in the group with Belfour, Moog, Billy Smith, Vernon, Cujo, Fleury, etc. who are great goalies for one or two years but good for many other years.

    Maybe but consider the way Oilers were and still are set up to leave goalies to take out the trash on a regular basis; with the team content to rack up scores of 8-5 lol

  148. Yeti says:

    It would be mean.

  149. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Building on what you’re saying, if we’re going to insist this ‘generational’ category has value, then it would seem to have two key requirements.

    1) You are a young phenom at the age of draft and immediately productive at an elite level from the time you enter the league

    2) Equally, if not more importantly than being a fast starter, you consistently compete for scoring titles and/or the individual trophies pertinent to your position for the first decade of your career minimum.

    Those two barriers to entry would restrict it to players like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovey, McDavid, etc.

    I would argue Malkin doesn’t belong in this cos he had troughs in that first decade that limited his production. If Forsberg doesn’t qualify as generational because of injuries, the same should apply to Malkin, Lindros. etc.

    Bossy does qualify if the above is the criteria. Came out of the gates with 53 goals and stayed at an elite level through his first decade. If he doesn’t qualify, then we’re saying this is partially an anecdotal term that has to include some predraft hype. Which makes it a bs term if that’s the case imho.

    Brodeur and Roy would also have to qualify. They were both elite from the get go. Roy wins the Conn Smythe as a rookie, Brodeur the Calder. Same with Ray Bourque and Denis Potvin who both start winning the Calder and then contend for Norris and Stanley for the next decade plus.

    Players like Selanne, Bure and Robitaille start at an elite level as rooks but can’t sustain it for a decade.

    Interestingly, two players widely regarded as the best at their positions with trophy cases full of team and individual hardware, Lidstrom and Hasek, don’t make the grade. Lidstrom, the best defenceman of his generation by a country mile, is not ‘generational.’ If that’s the case, what’s the point of the term? It seems like a very specific term meant solely for hyped draft picks that put up hall of fame numbers.

    Because there isn’t a specific definition it’s open ended.

    For me ‘generational’ means game changers. The game changed because of the fact they were so much better than the good players. Outliers.

    By definition the list has to be short.

    Many of the players listed in the debate were elite players. I’m not sure they were generational. Perhaps generational needs another term.

    The fact that Orr and Lemieux had shortened careers and nobody disputes their place at the top is an indicator.

    The fact that Connor is in the running (and Sid) with the greatest ever in the cap era is a big thing. There aren’t really weak teams or players to feast on anymore, even if the league has sort of cleaned the overt cheating up, a bit.

    Another indicator to me is players that are clearly different than the other top players. Nobody disputes anymore that Connor is the best player in the world even in the east. At 23.

    Gretzky went through the same but after a few seasons all credible debate ended.

    Nobody ever compared any of the other elite players mentioned to Orr, Gretzky or Lemieux. Or Howe. It’s important on making the distinction.

    I loved the play of the elites, but it’s not the same. Coffey was never even close to being as dominant as Orr, but a tremendous player in his own right for sure. Loved Lidstrom, nope.

    Still loving Duncan Keith, nope.

  150. Yeti says:

    Ha! I imagine the timing on this was coincidental rather than deliberate.

  151. Bulging Twine says:

    Gregor says Holland was to go to Sweden then join the team in Florida.

    I would think hope that one reason he is going to Sweden is to see Berglund for himself. Howson probably put Berglund on the radar to sign at the recent pro meetings and Holland wants to see for himself.

    Obviously he’ll want to see Broberg as well.

    This is a good sign

  152. hunter1909 says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Coffey was never even close to being as dominant as Orr, but a tremendous player in his own right for sure.

    Around 1984, 1985 Coffey was argued by more than a few to be approaching Gretzky level talent. Coffey was a weird player who is remembered for the wrong reasons because man he could skate like McDavid.

  153. v4ance says:

    Munny:
    Goalies can’t be generational because voodoo.

    What you see at 16 isn’t necessarily what you get.And no one has ever been a starter at 18 (that I can find).

    Even back in the day, Plante, Hall, Sawchuk all those guys weren’t starters till they were at least 20.Marty Enterprise was 21.

    There are two exceptions to this pattern…

    Patrick Roy became the de facto starter for the Habs at 19 when Steve Penney was hurt in January, but he wasn’t the starter at the beginning of the year.He wasn’t drafted till the 3rd round and wasn’t even his Jr team’s starter in draft + 1.He made his name in that season’s Calder Cup run.

    He was also the 3rd goalie taken In his draft year. The Oil drafted Daryl Reaugh a round ahead of him in fact, in what was one of the worst Oiler drafts of all time (1984).

    The other exception is Tretiak who became starter for CSKA and Red Army at 18.If I had to name a generational goalie, I probably start with him.

    Hasek played a few games in Czech pro at 16, but didn’t become a starter till he was 23, and was in his fourth NHL year and 2nd year with Buffalo before he started posting gaudy numbers.

    MAF, who was a 1st overall and did come into the League with a lot of hype, wasn’t a starter till age 20.

    Edit:lol… Now that I’ve actually thought about it for longer than two seconds, Roy was 20 when Penney went down to injury, not 19.So only one exception, Tretiak, and there’s an asterisk because that’s not the NHL.

    The problem is that NHL coaches and managers have been horribly conservative about putting in young goalies even though they are good enough. There are many examples of a fresh young tender coming in and posting better numbers than the veteran and yet the coach goes back to the vet more often.

    The problem is coaches use the wrong metric to measure goalie performance… wins.

    Our best example is Mike Smith and his current 10 game stretch. He’s 6-3-1 but his underlying save % numbers would usually translate into a 3-6-1 record. He’s been bouyed by the fact that the Oilers scored 6+ goals in 3 of those wins even though he’s played at a subpar rate. So now, even though Smith performance should translate into Koskinen playing 2 out of every 3 games, Tippet goes with Smith every second game. Eventually Smith’s luck will run out and we’ll lose a number of 3-2 and 4-2 games in succession because he won’t get the run support.

  154. jp says:

    Munny:

    What you see at 16 isn’t necessarily what you get.And no one has ever been a starter at 18 (that I can find).

    Tom Barrasso and Grant Fuhr were starters right out of the box (though Fuhr turned 19 in Sept after he was drafted).

    Not that they’re generational, but there are a few other examples of guys who were starters at 18 (or immediately after being drafted).

  155. Munny says:

    I get the Smith reference and think you’re right, but that doesn’t mean you’re right on coaches holding young goalies back. Most of these guys played as backup or injury relief prior to earning the starter role and did not post good numbers. Also most of them, even the top guys were still playing Junior or College in draft + 1.

  156. Harpers Hair says:

    Ice Sage: Oh dear that’ll inflame the troll – he’ll be angry that you didn’t spell it “Grindr” (and remind us of every other Oiler competitor who has a whiff of success, I always appreciate those updates while grinding)

    Mocking people for their sexual orientation is so last century.

  157. Munny says:

    Barrasso! That was the name I was trying to remember. I checked Liut but I couldn’t remember Barrasso’s name. Was trying to think of who was the famous American prior to Richter and Miller (both of whom I checked). He had hype, pedigree, and did start at 19, lapping the field. At 18, I would say he was a platooner, but still impressive.

    Fuhr was a weird one… in his next year he wasn’t the starter, Moog was, with Fuhr even spending 10 games in the A. And they played as a tandem a lot. I don’t know if either happens if you’re a generational talent.

  158. Scungilli Slushy says:

    hunter1909: Around 1984, 1985 Coffey was argued by more than a few to be approaching Gretzky level talent. Coffey was a weird player who is remembered for the wrong reasons because man he could skate like McDavid.

    I agree that Coffey was a very elite player. On a different team he very likely wouldn’t have had the same career because he would have been ruined by old timey coaches.

    He was a difference maker in game, an Oiler great, but I can’t say easily that he was a generational player. He also would not have had his success without Gretzky and Lemieux- how lucky was Paul! – where as the G guys do it despite the team, like Connor.

  159. tileguy says:

    Well I’ll be dammed!

  160. SVR says:

    hunter1909: Maybe but consider the way Oilers were and still are set up to leave goalies to take out the trash on a regular basis; with the team content to rack up scores of 8-5 lol

    I wonder if Fuhr wasn’t splitting starts with Moog for all those years, what would his win total look like and would he be higher regarded as a result

  161. Andy Dufresne says:

    For the record….I have only two generational players on my list.

    Bobby Orr

    and

    Wayne Gretzky

    Honourable mention to Dave Semenko 🙂

  162. Yeti says:

    Bulging Twine:
    Gregor says Holland was to go to Sweden then join the team in Florida.

    I would think hope that one reason he is going to Sweden is to see Berglund for himself.Howson probably put Berglund on the radar to sign at the recent pro meetings and Holland wants to see for himself.

    Obviously he’ll want to see Broberg as well.

    This is a good sign

    Nah, he’s just going to load up on kanelbulle.

  163. Andy Dufresne says:

    But I will add one from the generation before I was born so as not to be ageist.

    Maurice Richard.

    And one from the smarter gender so as not to be sexist/mysogynistic

    Haley Wickenheiser

  164. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Yeti,

    Duly log’d.

  165. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Boys came to play so far!!

  166. Oil2Oilers says:

    What a start!!!

  167. drglen says:

    Shehan scores!!!!

  168. jp says:

    Sheahan stays hot. Kassian helping. Good stuff.

  169. drglen says:

    so benson gets 13 shifts in 2 games or something, and that’s it?!

  170. pts2pndr says:

    No question on quality or his effort the wheels just are not there. No shame on him!

  171. flyfish1168 says:

    Nice shot by Archie. Creating rebounds

  172. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Faaaaaakkk!

  173. drglen says:

    smith beaten there.

  174. russ99 says:

    Watching the hometown broadcast here in Chi-town, Foley called him Nick Cave.

    Ugh.

  175. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Cue Godot for the back check commentary on that one

  176. drglen says:

    kassian late in coverage back…

  177. hunter1909 says:

    Next 5 Oilers games I’m happy with a 3-2 record

    6-10 next Oilers games I’m happy with a 3-2 record

    Oilers go 6-4 in the next 10 they’re in good shape.

  178. Derek says:

    It was pretty bad though, never took a stride from the blue line in.

  179. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Agreed, it will be well deserved

  180. jp says:

    Yup. Saw that.

  181. fishman says:

    Son is at the game. Says “lots” of empty seats…

  182. Bulging Twine says:

    What is wrong with Chiasson?

  183. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Well that sucks. They should play circus music on the replay.

  184. hunter1909 says:

    …just thinking “Oilers look shaky” when….bam…

  185. fishman says:

    Wow ugly PP. Obviously missing 97 really mess’s up PP

  186. drglen says:

    Geesuz that was brutal. Terrible, terrible powerplay. Smith 2 shots 2 goals. Pull him now.

  187. Dicky94 says:

    Get Chiasson off there.

  188. flyfish1168 says:

    He has been a horror show for a while now. Time to see the game from upstairs

  189. Oil2Oilers says:

    It might be that the Oilers powerplay is reliant on Connor’s godlike zone entries.

  190. drglen says:

    Dear Oilers. Please just decline the next PP.

  191. drglen says:

    Maybe they should have waited for the MRI before shipping Benson back down. I mean we’ve got Cave, Khaira, and Russell, as an actual NHL line here? , Khaira being the sniper of the three. This game could get out of reach in a hurry. Smith can’t stop a beachball tonight

  192. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Uh oh.

  193. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Oil2Oilers,

    Then Tippett should craft a strategy that suits the available personnel.

  194. Leroy Draisdale says:

    Ok, that was much better

  195. jp says:

    Yes! Yamamoto!!

    What a nice player! (thinking of that take-back on Keith a moment ago)

  196. drglen says:

    I stand corrected. great powerplay goal yamomoto.

  197. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    A beauty by Yammer.

  198. Nit64 says:

    60 mins for NuDraiFry

  199. Oil2Oilers says:

    The Blackhawks will be getting a makeup call for that week one one Teows

  200. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    What I mean specifically is maybe the drop play to see someone zoom in for the zone entry isn’t the best idea for this group sans CMD. They tried a couple times and failed spectacularly on the first PP.

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