The Last Full Measure

Philip Broberg is a big man, despite also being a teenager. He’s still 18 by the way, turns 19 tomorrow (June 24). He played offside and a defensive role at the WJ’s, and his SHL time didn’t involve power-play minutes. Jim Matheson has the Oilers inviting him over for the July camp. He won’t play, but what if he did? What should we expect?

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, check it out here.

BROBERG 2019-20 SHL

Soderstrom was drafted three spots after Broberg, he’s a different player type and appears destined for a successful NHL career. The season above was his second in the SHL, compared to Broberg’s first. Soderstrom was 18-28 as an SHL rookie, and scored just four points (0.35 points per 60). Soderstrom is four months older than Broberg. The team GF-GA totals are without each player, so Soderstrom’s goal differential is impressive.

Broberg is unready for NHL action, and he’s incredibly young for a player who has been drafted and has already clocked in his draft +1 season. He is 20 months younger than Evan Bouchard. He is just seven months older than Kaiden Guhle, one of the top defensemen in this year’s draft.

I read a lot of worry about Broberg, and he’s raw compared to some of these other Swedish blue (who are well schooled) but I think the range of outcomes for Broberg are fairly exciting. He’s a rugged player with calm feet, and Red Line compared his style to John Carlson.

All I care is that everyone is healthy. I don’t know if these players can get from the current spot to the bubble, but the process is ratcheting up and that has benefits. If the playoffs go, music! If not, we’re closer to draft day.

PUNCH IMLACH AND YOUNG BLUE

HOCKEY IS A BATTLE: I moved in a lot of guys, especially on defence. I knew I was going to give Mike Pelyk a lot of work, Jim Dorey was a real tough egg from Tulsa and he was going to get a shot at it. Another tough guy was Pat Quinn, and a real surprise in camp was Rickey Ley, a junior from Niagra Falls with no pro experience. So we had all those guys, plus Tim Horton, Marcel Pronovost and Pierre Pilote.

I knew that with all these young guys there were going to be mistakes. They were going to cost us goals. But I was going to have a team that would try and would play entertaining hockey. I knew we would be life and death to make the playoffs.

Imlach made the playoffs with a young blue that season and several of those men would play a long time in pro hockey. Jim Dorey was a terror, Jim McKenny took a little time to establish himself but enjoyed a career. Mike Pelyk was highly touted, Rick Ley was one of the toughest small defensemen I’ve ever seen. Brad Selwood and Brian Glennie were kicking around somewhere.

Bringing it back to the Oilers, I think a fan of the Maple Leafs in 1969 would have bet on Jim Dorey and Mike Pelyk among the young group based on the 68-69 season.

By 1973, McKenny and Pelyk were in Toronto, with Glennie, recent draft picks Ian Turnbull and Bob Neely, and a Swedish import named Borje Salming.

We have in our minds how things will go. Broberg continues to develop, eventually replacing Klefbom or Nurse who are dealt away for need. Broberg and Jones remain, along with the expensive veteran (one of Klefbom or Nurse).

Plans change. Wait for the kids to establish themselves at the highest level, and don’t move a muscle to replace Klefbom or Nurse until one of the kids has passed them.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, TSN1260, we have a helluva show for you. Bruce McCurdy from the Cult of Hockey at the Edmonton Journal will talk HHOF and Kevin Lowe’s resume for the honour. Joe Osborne from OddsShark gets us ready for the coming MLB season at 11. Steve Dryden, Sr. Managing Editor of Hockey for TSN, will also talk about the Hall and a unique summer that may see some overdue honours. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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79 Responses to "The Last Full Measure"

  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    Yes, a very mentionable tweet by Matty yesterday (although I acknowledge that the Hall of Famer has indeed tweeted incorrect information a few times over last while).

    We knew the org was thinking about bringing him over but now we know they will indeed officially invite him.

    The SHL starts on September 19 this year so I anticipate their camp is at the end of August. Hopefully the Oilers are still playing and he’s fine with missing the beginning of his club team’s camp for the year.

    We know he was planning to come to main training camp in mid-September this year (and, presumably, the Penticton tourney) so he is comfortable with a late start in Skelfeeta.

    He’ll be 11D so essentially no chance he plays – if he does have to play, the team is in major trouble.

  2. Ben says:

    I wasn’t a huge fan of the Broberg pick, but as a whole the team’s 25-and-under blue group must be among the most exciting in the league:

    Nurse
    Bear
    Jones
    Bouchard
    Broberg
    (plus Samorukov, Lagesson)

    Some pretty good puck skills in there, but mostly a ton of mobility.

    This is really the first time since the weather(lady) chased CFP away that I would consider the D corps as a net strength of the team. Can’t believe they hit all 3 of those 2015 mid-round D picks.

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    If there is any situation where I put all but zero stock in to offensive boxcars – its, just drafted teenage d-men in the SHL.

    Broberg’s, seemingly middling, offensive numbers, actually stack up just fine against some high end offensive producers.

    He may very well be a 30 point guy but his lack of production as an 18 year old in Sweden does not preclude a higher end producer than that.

    I sure hope the WJC go as planned this winter – I think he’ll have a massive all-situations role for Team Sweden this tourney.

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    WIllie Lagesson made his way to Edmonton from Sweden and P. Russell as well – not sure who else.

    As far as getting in to the Phase 4 Hub-City-Bubble COVID-free, I anticipate major restrictions on player movement in society during Phase 3 – training camp has to be a mini-bubble – home and rink – that’s all.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pre-Congrats to Iggy on his HOF induction, minutes away I believe.

  6. Elgin R says:

    Very few defencemen play in the NHL before they are 20-years old. Cale Makar was a solid rookie this year and turned 21 in the first month of the season. Klefbom was 20 when he made the Oilers and then still played some games in the AHL and Oscar is now the Oilers best defenceman. Broberg is young for his draft class (June 25,2001) and did OK in his first SHL season. Another year in the SHL and then time in the AHL (2021 – 2022) and the Oilers should then know what type of defenceman he could be.

    The young man has great wheels and needs time to learn the game at a pro level. Sounds a lot like Nurse. These young men were faster, bigger and stronger than the other kids and therefore could do things differently than required in the pro game with men (this may also apply to AA). If Brogerg works very hard to improve his deficiencies the OIlers should have a good LHD in 3-years.

    Be patient Oiler fans and trust in the process (Holland, Woodcroft et al).

  7. McNuge93 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Even if Broberg just came here to the camp and maybe the first round against Chicago, and then returned to Europe to start their season would make sense. Gives him some exposure to NA and to get to know some of the players.
    Incredible how young he is. A full season back in Europe may give him a leg up on some prospects here if junior and AHL seasons are delayed. Then next year if things are normalized for the 2021/2022 season consider bringing him over to the AHL. Perfect situation to slowly develope him, rather than rush him.

  8. Marc says:

    Klefbom was also one of the youngest picks in his draft year, playing against men in the SHL, so he’s not a bad comp for Broberg.

    Broberg looks be tracking slightly ahead of Klefbom in his draft +1 year, having spent the whole season in the top Swedish league and producing a bit more offence.

  9. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    If there is any situation where I put all but zero stock in to offensive boxcars – its, just drafted teenage d-men in the SHL.

    Broberg’s, seemingly middling, offensive numbers, actually stack up just fine against some high end offensive producers.

    He may very well be a 30 point guy but his lack of production as an 18 year old in Sweden does not preclude a higher end producer than that.

    I sure hope the WJC go as planned this winter – I think he’ll have a massive all-situations role for Team Sweden this tourney.

    He won’t be Erik Karlsson, but agreed his numbers shouldn’t be cause for concern.

    Just a couple of comparisons using pts/game:
    Philip Broberg
    Draft season:
    Swe J20 1.00 (only 8 GP)
    Allsvensk 0.22
    HlinkaU18 0.80
    WJC U18 0.86
    WJC U20 0.25

    Draft +1:
    SHL —— 0.18
    WJC U20 0.15

    Oscar Klefbom
    Draft season:
    Swe J18 0.75 (only 8 games)
    SHL —– 0.09
    Division1 0.08 (this is the league below the Allsvenskan where Broberg played)
    WJC U18 0.86

    Draft +1:
    Swe J20 0.27
    SHL —— 0.06
    WJC U20 0.33

    Broberg consistently scored better than Klefbom at the same age.

    Hampus Lindholm
    Draft season:
    Swe J20 0.61
    Allsvensk 0.20
    WJC U18 0.67

    Draft +1:
    AHL — 0.25

    Broberg scored very comparably to Lindholm.

    Erik Karlsson (just for fun)
    Draft season:
    Swe J20 0.97
    SHL —— 0.14 (only 7 GP)
    HlinkaU18 0.25
    WJC U18 1.17

    Draft +1:
    SHL —— 0.22
    Allsvensk 0.14 (only 7 GP)
    WJC U20 1.50

    Karlsson showed himself vs. his peers but his scoring in Sweden’s Jr and Sr leagues is actually basically the same as Broberg’s (again, not really trying to make a Broberg-Karlsson comparison here!)

    His numbers stack up more than fine vs many quality NHLers.

  10. Jaxon says:

    Ben:
    I wasn’t a huge fan of the Broberg pick, but as a whole the team’s 25-and-under blue group must be among the most exciting in the league:

    Nurse
    Bear
    Jones
    Bouchard
    Broberg
    (plus Samorukov, Lagesson)

    Some pretty good puck skills in there, but mostly a ton of mobility.

    This is really the first time since the weather(lady) chased CFP away that I would consider the D corps as a net strength of the team. Can’t believe they hit all 3 of those 2015 mid-round D picks.

    The elders on this team aren’t exactly old. I would say Edmonton is ensuring a phase where they have one of the best 27 and under teams in the league.
    Larsson, Klefbom, Benning, Nurse, Jones, Bear, Samorukov, Bouchard, Broberg
    Nugent-Hopkins, Athanasiou, Khaira, Draisaitl, Marody, McDavid, Benson, Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Maximov, McLeod, Lavoie

  11. dustrock says:

    I got the long-term idea behind the Broberg pick but could be another 3 years before he’s ready. Thought we need to compile high-end forwards and the idea of Zegras or Caufield or Kaliyev to add to Lavoie made sense to bring through to play with 97 & 29 over the next few years.

  12. OriginalPouzar says:

    Interesting stuff – as per Jokke Nevalainen, Finnish NHL players are renting a plane and coming back to North America – on Friday.

    Come on home Mikko!!!!

  13. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    “Plans change. Wait for the kids to establish themselves at the highest level, and don’t move a muscle to replace Klefbom or Nurse until one of the kids has passed them.”

    This is the key statement.

    AKA doing the exact opposite of what the DoD Oilers were doing. No more shiny toys, magic beans. We need tangible assets and good problems.

  14. N64 says:

    @Sportsnet650 2m
    Vancouver as an NHL hub city hit a snag yesterday.
    LISTEN Sportsnet’s @JeffMarek this morning on the Starting Lineup w/@JamesCybulski and @psolkowski.

    https://twitter.com/Sportsnet650/status/1275822220632195072

    Vegas is a lock assuming a US location when you see who they left in the US 3:

    “Los Angeles County has more cases of coronavirus than any other county in the U.S. as of Wednesday morning. LA has over 88,500 residents diagnosed with COVID-19, followed by 87,700 cases in Cook County, Illinois”

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/los-angeles-county-now-leading-nation-coronavirus-cases/story?id=71425749

    Toronto looks a lot better if you compare to Vegas rather than the other Canadian teams.

  15. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Wonder if they’re looking into empty leg flights as a way to save money due to the uncertain future financial environment? haha

  16. elgruntus says:

    I found it interesting that those Leaf defencemen from the early 70’s either played (almost) their entire career in Hogtown, or New England. It’s pretty much a rarity these days

  17. Lowetide says:

    elgruntus:
    I found it interesting that those Leaf defencemen from the early 70’s either played (almost) their entire career in Hogtown, or New England. It’s pretty much a rarity these days

    Easy answer. Leafs owner was too cheap to pay the new price and the Whalers had a massive budget.

  18. OriginalPouzar says:

    McNuge93:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Even if Broberg just came here to the camp and maybe the first round against Chicago, and then returned to Europe to start their season would make sense. Gives him some exposure to NA and to get to know some of the players.
    Incredible how young he is. A full season back in Europe may give him a leg up on some prospects here if junior and AHL seasons are delayed. Then next year if things are normalized for the 2021/2022 season consider bringing him over to the AHL. Perfect situation to slowly develope him, rather than rush him.

    I don’t disagree at all, although I anticipate that, if he comes over to join the team, he will stay until they are done – could leave early to join Skelfeeta and get going but I anticipate he stays for the entire journey.

    Although the CHL leagues and AHL are hoping to start as normal in October, as each has indicated fans in the stands is imperative, I don’t imagine they start before the NHL does in Dec/Jan and I’m quite happy the likes of Broberg, Berglund and Samorukov will be playing hockey in the dead period.

    I wonder if the likes of Lennstrom, Niemelainan, etc. will also sign with European teams and be loaned to start the season with the intent on coming back when the North Amercian leagues start up?

  19. jp says:

    N64:

    Vegas is a lock assuming a US location when you see who they left in the US 3:

    “Los Angeles County has more cases of coronavirus than any other county in the U.S. as of Wednesday morning. LA has over 88,500 residents diagnosed with COVID-19, followed by 87,700 cases in Cook County, Illinois”

    Pet peeve:

    Those are the 2 largest counties by population in the US. LA county has almost 2x the population of any other county.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_populous_counties_in_the_United_States

    That’s not to say they don’t have a Covid problem but I highly doubt those are the worst 2 places in the country.

  20. rogue says:

    LT; The leafs made some stupid moves in those days. I could never forget or forgive the trade of a young Rick Kehoe. He added so much depth and scoring ability in the 2 years he was a Leaf.

  21. N64 says:

    jp: That’s not to say they don’t have a Covid problem but I highly doubt those are the worst 2 places in the country.

    Good point. Also active counts are relevant, not total.

    But of course the comparison here is LA, Chicago, Vegas.

  22. jp says:

    N64: Good point. Also active counts are relevant, not total.

    But of course the comparison here is LA, Chicago, Vegas.

    Yes the overall point still stands.

    The pet peeve is omitting the total population associated with the raw numbers and was directed much more at the tweet than at you.

  23. N64 says:

    jp: Yes the overall point still stands.

    The pet peeve is omitting the total population associated with the raw numbers and was directed much more at the tweet than at you.

    Sure. Per capita is a great comparison with some caveats. You’d want some minimum county size to compare to. Otherwise you’re making a random list of small spot fires to compare to large infernos. Comparisons aren’t completely scale irrelevant. Kinda like looking at points per game without a minimum number of games.

  24. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide: Easy answer. Leafs owner was too cheap to pay the new price and the Whalers had a massive budget.

    Didn’t the WHA wipe out that Leafs team? Didn’t they have Jacques Plante and Bernie Parent in goal(not shabby lol), and lost a whole bunch of key young players, one of them being Jim Harrison who starred for the WHA Oilers for 1/3 of a season?

  25. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Mari Lonnberg:

    There has not been any negotiations between Puljujärvi and Kärpät about the coming season.

    https://t.co/gwAUyTRdzh

  26. jp says:

    N64: Sure. Per capita is a great comparison with some caveats. You’d want some minimum county size to compare to. Otherwise you’re making a random list of small spot fires to compare to large infernos. Comparisons aren’t completely scale irrelevant. Kinda like looking at points per game without a minimum number of games.

    No, scale isn’t completely irrelevant. And I agree comparing to tiny places doesn’t make sense.

    In this case the per capita numbers are more relevant than raw though, no? (and per capita active cases more so than total detected).

    All 3 are among the top 15 counties by population in the country (all over 2M).

    Per capita the rates are:
    Cook, IL ————- 1.69%
    Los Angeles, CA — 0.88%
    Clark, NV ———— 0.51%

    Chicago’s had almost twice as many cases per capita than LA. And LA is worse than Vegas but the difference isn’t that huge.

    Interesting, Toronto is virtually identical to Vegas at 0.48% if the numbers I found are correct. Huh, I didn’t realize that. (Toronto public health region has 2.9M people and has had 13,956 cases as of Monday).

    Anyway as you say active cases (and the testing to detect them) are most relevant. And Vancouver and Edmonton surely look light years better than any of the above.

  27. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As per Mari Lonnberg:

    There has not been any negotiations between Puljujärvi and Kärpät about the coming season.

    https://t.co/gwAUyTRdzh

    Seeing how your a lawyer and talking about JP like he might/might not do something its like your his agent.

  28. hunter1909 says:

    jp: No, scale isn’t completely irrelevant. And I agree comparing to tiny places doesn’t make sense.

    In this case the per capita numbers are more relevant than raw though, no? (and per capita active cases more so than total detected).

    All 3 are among the top 15 counties by population in the country (all over 2M).

    Per capita the rates are:
    Cook, IL ————- 1.69%
    Los Angeles, CA — 0.88%
    Clark, NV ———— 0.51%

    Chicago’s had almost twice as many cases per capita than LA. And LA is worse than Vegas but the difference isn’t that huge.

    Interesting, Toronto is virtually identical to Vegas at 0.48% if the numbers I found are correct. Huh, I didn’t realize that. (Toronto public health region has 2.9M people and has had 13,956 cases as of Monday).

    Anyway as you say active cases (and the testing to detect them) are most relevant. And Vancouver and Edmonton surely look light years better than any of the above.

    It would be a coup for the NHL to play in Edmonton, they could really make it into a big deal but sadly the lame brains running hockey will never think of it and fixate on Vegas which is a terrible idea(skating in mush)

  29. N64 says:

    jp: No, scale isn’t completely irrelevant. And I agree comparing to tiny places doesn’t make sense.

    In this case the per capita numbers are more relevant than raw though, no? (and per capita active cases more so than total detected).

    All 3 are among the top 15 counties by population in the country (all over 2M).

    Per capita the rates are:
    Cook, IL ————- 1.69%
    Los Angeles, CA — 0.88%
    Clark, NV ———— 0.51%

    Chicago’s had almost twice as many cases per capita than LA. And LA is worse than Vegas but the difference isn’t that huge.

    Interesting, Toronto is virtually identical to Vegas at 0.48% if the numbers I found are correct. Huh, I didn’t realize that. (Toronto public health region has 2.9M people and has had 13,956 cases as of Monday).

    Anyway as you say active cases (and the testing to detect them) are most relevant. And Vancouver and Edmonton surely look light years better than any of the above.

    Total case count is not useful as no distinction between new and very old outbreaks. Don’t have access to active cases per capita by county, So here are the average recent daily new cases PER MILLION (from last 7 days) for the relevant US counties:

    Los Angeles CA 188.26
    Clark NV 144.93
    Dallas TX 138.14
    Franklin OH 105.71
    Cook IL 64.17
    Ramsey MN 51.57
    Allegheny PA 18.00

    Note how much Cook moves when we focus on current rather than past. Imagine Edmonton and Hawks as the hosts. Even the NHL could not mess that one up by placing the West in Chicago. Pittsburgh would have been a good option subject to bubble details.

  30. OriginalPouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Interesting stuff – as per Jokke Nevalainen, Finnish NHL players are renting a plane and coming back to North America – on Friday.

    Come on home Mikko!!!!

    A charter is being arranged to bring players back from Sweden as well.

    Welcome home Adam, Oscar, Markus, Joakim and, maybe, Gaetan!

  31. Todd Macallan says:

    Wow, Lowe and Holland both inducted, big day for the team!

  32. godot10 says:

    Todd Macallan:
    Wow, Lowe and Holland both inducted, big day for the team!

    So Kris Russell will be the last guy to wear #4 as an Oiler. And another banner will go up sometime in the future when fans are allowed in the stands.

    Lowe deserves it as a player.

  33. N64 says:

    Todd Macallan:
    Wow, Lowe and Holland both inducted, big day for the team!

    ~ Which went in as builder? ~

    Reports note that Lowe “is the first pure defensive defenceman elected since Rod Langway in 2002”.

    Also the last! Looks like he’s eligible now to have the number he shared retired.as soon as Krusty is moved.

  34. Reja says:

    godot10: So Kris Russell will be the last guy to wear #4 as an Oiler. And another banner will go up sometime in the future when fans are allowed in the stands.

    Lowe deserves it as a player.

    Nice to see Kevin make it he was a true warrior and definitely deserves to have his number hanging from the rafters. I would have to say Mcdavid and Leon will be the next 2 oiler jerseys that are retired.

  35. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jays asking the feds for permission to play regular season games in Toronto.

    Expecting an answer shortly and, if it’s a yes, they will hold camp in Toronto – if not, Dunedin.

  36. defmn says:

    I love google translate. 😉

    https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/jesse-puljujarven-sm-liigajatkosta-levisi-villi-vaite-todellisuus-on-aivan-toinen/7853432#gs.98zqw4

    The 3rd paragraph is interesting and amenable to several interpretations. 😉

    ================================

    The situation of Jesse Puljujärvi, who returned to Finland last season, is on the wallpaper again. The Edmonton Journal has already hinted that Puljujärvi will continue in the ranks of the Oulu Flies. The reality, however, is that Puljujärvi and Kärpät have not negotiated an agreement.

    Puljujärvi, 22, was by far the most watched figure of the previous Finnish Championship league season. Returning from Edmonton to Oulu, Puljujärvi cannoned the powers 24 + 29 = 53 for 56 regular season matches. In addition to this, he played six EHT matches at 1 + 4.

    Puljujärvi has announced that it will return to the NHL. However, the situation is complicated.

    It is currently unclear when the next NHL season will begin. The wallpaper is also whether the NHL will be able to continue its ongoing 2019-2020 season. In recent days, there have been worrying corona news behind the crab, which have only increased the number of question marks.

  37. OriginalPouzar says:

    Congrats to Matt Benning who is now a father to a baby boy, Miles, born on Monday.

    Will be tough for Matt to commit to leave for who knows how long (hopefully a few months) but he intends to do so (at least as per his verbal a few weeks ago).

  38. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ben:
    I wasn’t a huge fan of the Broberg pick, but as a whole the team’s 25-and-under blue group must be among the most exciting in the league:

    Nurse
    Bear
    Jones
    Bouchard
    Broberg
    (plus Samorukov, Lagesson)

    Some pretty good puck skills in there, but mostly a ton of mobility.

    This is really the first time since the weather(lady) chased CFP away that I would consider the D corps as a net strength of the team. Can’t believe they hit all 3 of those 2015 mid-round D picks.

    Berglund as well – he’s a legit NHL prospect – likely was ready, or darn close, this year if he didn’t want one more year in Sweden.

    Kemp has a chance as well – a bit old school, shut-down guy, but a damn good one at Yale.

    Kesserling is a very intriguing guy – years away though.

    Lennstrom too I guess – I didn’t think much of the signing at the time but he may have some NHL games in him.

  39. OriginalPouzar says:

    Elgin R:
    Very few defencemen play in the NHL before they are 20-years old.Cale Makar was a solid rookie this year and turned 21 in the first month of the season.Klefbom was 20 when he made the Oilers and then still played some games in the AHL and Oscar is now the Oilers best defenceman.Broberg is young for his draft class (June 25,2001) and did OK in his first SHL season.Another year in the SHL and then time in the AHL (2021 – 2022) and the Oilers should then know what type of defenceman he could be.

    The young man has great wheels and needs time to learn the game at a pro level.Sounds a lot like Nurse.These young men were faster, bigger and stronger than the other kids and therefore could do things differently than required in the pro game with men (this may also apply to AA).If Brogerg works very hard to improve his deficiencies the OIlers should have a good LHD in 3-years.

    Be patient Oiler fans and trust in the process (Holland, Woodcroft et al).

    Oh, Broberg is going to need some time but, if there is any manager that will provide that time, Kenny Holland is the one and, of course, Kenny has the NHL and prospect defensive depth in the org to give the player the time – zero need to rush him.

    I’ll add one coach to your list above – Dave Manson – he may be the most under-rated person in the org.

  40. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Jays asking the feds for permission to play regular season games in Toronto.

    Expecting an answer shortly and, if it’s a yes, they will hold camp in Toronto – if not, Dunedin.

    Without fans? Without cohort quarantine? Why?

    https://www.ottawamatters.com/around-ontario/without-hub-city-approach-blue-jays-face-challenge-to-play-in-toronto-2512870

    Now if they’d like to host the bubble MLB playoffs that will likely follow the 60 game season….

  41. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: Seeing how your a lawyer and talking about JP like he might/might not do something its like your his agent.

    Or, of course, I’m an Oilers fan that likes to talk about Oilers-related matters on an Oiler-community forum.

  42. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: It would be a coup for the NHL to play in Edmonton, they could really make it into a big deal but sadly the lame brains running hockey will never think of it and fixate on Vegas which is a terrible idea(skating in mush)

    T-Mobil is known form some of the best ice in the league and they anticipate the outdoor air temperature to be a complete non-issue.

    Empty arena in a place that is quite well known for being able to keep things cool indoors.

  43. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: T-Mobil is known form some of the best ice in the league and they anticipate the outdoor air temperature to be a complete non-issue.

    Empty arena in a place that is quite well known for being able to keep things cool indoors.

    Both the NBA and the NHL both want to play inside the eye of the Covid hurricane. Money makes people crazy.

  44. leadfarmer says:

    defmn:
    I love google translate.?

    https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/jesse-puljujarven-sm-liigajatkosta-levisi-villi-vaite-todellisuus-on-aivan-toinen/7853432#gs.98zqw4

    The 3rd paragraph is interesting and amenable to several interpretations.?

    ================================

    The situation of Jesse Puljujärvi, who returned to Finland last season, is on the wallpaper again. The Edmonton Journal has already hinted that Puljujärvi will continue in the ranks of the Oulu Flies. The reality, however, is that Puljujärvi and Kärpät have not negotiated an agreement.

    Puljujärvi, 22, was by far the most watched figure of the previous Finnish Championship league season. Returning from Edmonton to Oulu, Puljujärvi cannoned the powers 24 + 29 = 53 for 56 regular season matches. In addition to this, he played six EHT matches at 1 + 4.

    Puljujärvi has announced that it will return to the NHL. However, the situation is complicated.

    It is currently unclear when the next NHL season will begin. The wallpaper is also whether the NHL will be able to continue its ongoing 2019-2020 season. In recent days, there have been worrying corona news behind the crab, which have only increased the number of question marks.

    They sure like their wallpaper

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Both the NBA and the NHL both want to play inside the eye of the Covid hurricane.Money makes people crazy.

    From accounts, the bubble that Vegas will be able to create will be the “tightest” of them all.

    I anticipate that Vegas’ bid includes the least amount of people leaving the bubble nightly and coming back in.

  46. OriginalPouzar says:

    Thomas Drance
    @ThomasDrance
    Strong sense of pessimism from both Canucks and NHL sources on the status of the Vancouver bid this afternoon.

    Positive test protocol snag was encountered Tuesday afternoon. Disagreement is in the details, but this is complex stuff and could be insurmountable.

    —————
    Pierre LeBrun
    @PierreVLeBrun
    ·
    27m
    Canucks are still working away on the issues with the league. But clearly time is of the essence. We’ll see what the next few days bring and whether the Vancouver ship has sailed or not

  47. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar: From accounts, the bubble that Vegas will be able to create will be the “tightest” of them all.

    I anticipate that Vegas’ bid includes the least amount of people leaving the bubble nightly and coming back in.

    Another great Vegas magic act. The inescapable Vegas bubble. Can’t wait for Act 2.

    Let me guess the Vegas Boxing Commission will audit everything

  48. OriginalPouzar says:

    N64: Another great Vegas magic act. The inescapable Vegas bubble. Can’t wait for Act 2.

    Let me guess the Vegas Boxing Commission will audit everything

    With the bid coming from MGM it may very well reduce the cost of keeping any individual person in the bubble and, given the bubble will be high end resort like complexes, it may very well convince more staff, etc. to commit to staying in the bubble.

    I’m just speculating but I can definitely see less people in and out of the bubble in Vegas.

  49. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – “I never saw myself as a Hall of Famer,” Lowe admitted.

    – Me neither…I mean congrats: he knew a thing or two about winning, now he’s HoF. He has had a storied career. Happy for him of course, a great achievment. I just don’t get it, but OBC = hockey

  50. godot10 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – “I never saw myself as a Hall of Famer,” Lowe admitted.

    – Me neither…I mean congrats: he knew a thing or two about winning, now he’s HoF.He has had a storied career.Happy for him of course, a great achievment.I just don’t get it, but OBC = hockey

    Fairly or unfairly, Cups matter. Six cups, three without Coffey, two without Gretzky. Was on a historic dynasty, and won the Cup on a team breaking a historic drought. He had a set of useful traits and abilities that made him an extremely valuable player in the fifteen or so seasons he played, and especially in the playoffs.

    The 1990 Cup is the Cup that put Anderson and Lowe into the Hall.

  51. defmn says:

    Holland recounted the story of how Jim Devellano offered him a timely scouting job with the Red Wings just two days after signing on to become an Electrolux vacuum salesman like his mother suggested.

    ==================

    You’ve got to be standing in the right place when the ‘good luck’ gene is being handed out.

  52. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    godot10: Fairly or unfairly, Cups matter.Six cups, three without Coffey, two without Gretzky.Was on a historic dynasty, and won the Cup on a team breaking a historic drought.He had a set of useful traits and abilities that made him an extremely valuable player in the fifteen or so seasons he played, and especially in the playoffs.

    The 1990 Cup is the Cup that put Anderson and Lowe into the Hall.

    – Yeah I totally get all that. Cups matter most. He was given a curcumstance: playing with one of the greatest teams assembled. He played his role. As a result of being a player on Cup teams, he was afforeded a lot oppoturinites: “Hey there Cup winner, how ’bout managment for you. You know about winning, you’ve got to bei involved in Hockey Canada and Olympics as well”

    – I mean good for him: he won a lot cups, and was afforded a lot of opportunites.

    – Had he played on another team, no cups, and he’s just another D who had a long career.

    – That’s the Hockey culture: win: well there’s a winner…

    – Anderson was a deadly winger, really elite. Lowe knew his role, and did it well. Smooth Operator

    – Bleeds Oil

    – Hall of Famer

  53. jp says:

    Todd Macallan:
    Wow, Lowe and Holland both inducted, big day for the team!

    Wow indeed!

    defmn:
    Holland recounted the story of how Jim Devellano offered him a timely scouting job with the Red Wings just two days after signing on to become an Electrolux vacuum salesman like his mother suggested.

    ==================

    You’ve got to be standing in the right place when the ‘good luck’ gene is being handed out.

    Amazing.

  54. jp says:

    hunter1909: It would be a coup for the NHL to play in Edmonton, they could really make it into a big deal but sadly the lame brains running hockey will never think of it and fixate on Vegas which is a terrible idea(skating in mush)

    It absolutely may not be a good idea. I kind of agree with OP though that Vegas has the will and the infrastructure make it work Covid/bubble-wise (maybe it’s more accurate to say I see the appeal).

    The ice I think is the least of the issues (was it a problem during their cup run?). Pretty sure it’s actually an advantage to normally have to deal with the heat like they do there. Average high in September (during training camp every year) is 34C for instance.

  55. leadfarmer says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – “I never saw myself as a Hall of Famer,” Lowe admitted.

    – Me neither…I mean congrats: he knew a thing or two about winning, now he’s HoF.He has had a storied career.Happy for him of course, a great achievment.I just don’t get it, but OBC = hockey

    Right place at the right time,
    Probably wouldn’t be higher than a depth defenseman in today’s game

  56. Glovjuice says:

    How many NHL players have won six cups 1980 or after (half a bloody century practically)? My guess is Lowe, Messier, and Anderson ? That’s a Hall of Famer even if you were a fourth line winger. Drops mike.

  57. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    leadfarmer: Right place at the right time,
    Probably wouldn’t be higher than a depth defenseman in today’s game

    – Yup

    – Alfredsson, WAYYYY better than Lowe. Except Cups. And a winner, and connected old boy

    – Lowe was a Steve Staois type guy: loved him on your team,: spirit character, winner, tries hard

    – They win all those Cups without Lowe, replaced by any number of D. But good for him. Like Glov said. 6 Cups matters most.

    – Mike Lodish played in 6 Superbowls. Horry has won 7 NBA championships, Cosetti was on 8 World Series teams won with DiMaggio. Paul O’Neil in more recent times won 5 World series.

    – None of these guys were special. Nor was Lowe But they were all on special teams. I’m with Lead: right place, right time

    – Then NHL has to most bogus HoF selection criteria anways: and the members a strange bunch:

    1) https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/welcome-to-the-confounding-covid-hall-of-fame-class-of-2020

    2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_Hall_of_Fame#:~:text=Committee%20members%20are%20appointed%20by,chairman%20John%20Davidson%2C%20James%20M.

  58. jp says:

    N64: Total case count is not useful as no distinction between new and very old outbreaks. Don’t have access to active cases per capita by county, So here are the average recent daily new cases PER MILLION (from last 7 days) for the relevant US counties:

    Los Angeles CA 188.26
    Clark NV144.93
    Dallas TX 138.14
    Franklin OH 105.71
    Cook IL 64.17
    Ramsey MN 51.57
    Allegheny PA 18.00

    Note how much Cook moves when we focus on current rather than past. Imagine Edmonton and Hawks as the hosts. Even the NHL could not mess that one up by placing the West in Chicago. Pittsburgh would have been a good option subject to bubble details.

    Agreed, these are the most relevant numbers. And Canada (even Toronto) fares really well compared to all of these locales (well, TO is in range of PA but a shade lower, ~15).

    Didn’t you start out saying Vegas is a lock when you look at cases in LA and Chicago though?

  59. Brad says:

    Glovjuice,

    Bryan Trottier is the one other to accomplish the feat. Larry Robinson is the only other to win 6 cups with ANY coming after 1980. Rarefied air indeed.

  60. jp says:

    N64:
    Allegheny PA 18.00

    Not trying to question the numbers really, but I was just browsing US state numbers (the 3 month slow burn in California is terrifying). It’s interesting that PA has the 4th lowest rate of tests per capita in the country. Could be a factor in their sterling case numbers (taking the President’s words to heart).

  61. Victoria Oil says:

    Is anybody else conflicted by Iginla going to the HHOF? There is zero doubt that he belongs. He is the only player from “that team” that I would admit to liking. I have enormous respect for his hockey skills and for him as a person. But he played for “that team” and I really f—ing despise “that team”.

  62. N64 says:

    jp: Not trying to question the numbers really, but I was just browsing US state numbers (the 3 month slow burn in California is terrifying). It’s interesting that PA has the 4th lowest rate of tests per capita in the country. Could be a factor in their sterling case numbers (taking the President’s words to heart).

    Hah. Key thing is test positivity. Alberta has a current positive test rate around 1%, Pennsylvania around 4%, Nevada 9.8%. Texas over 10%.

    These rates clue you into missed cases. AB will not get half the cases if they halve the tests. But when positivity is high increased testing will increase cases a lot. WHO considers positivity rate above 5% as a sign of undertesting.

    https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-covid19-pennsylvania-test-positive-new-jersey-hopkins-20200624.html

  63. OriginalPouzar says:

    Glovjuice:
    How many NHL players have won six cups 1980 or after (half a bloody century practically)? My guess is Lowe, Messier, and Anderson ? That’s a Hall of Famer even if you were a fourth line winger. Drops mike.

    While I’m not convinced Lowe deserved induction over a few of the others (i.e. Mogilny, Fleury), I vehemently disagree with the above premise. Kevin Lowe was not a “4th liner”

    Kevin Lowe made Team Canada for a couple Canada Cups – he was a very good player for a number of years.

    If that premise is solid, lets start talking about MacT – he’s got a bunch of cups, not 6 but a bunch.

  64. N64 says:

    jp: Agreed, these are the most relevant numbers. And Canada (even Toronto) fares really well compared to all of these locales (well, TO is in range of PA but a shade lower, ~15).

    Didn’t you start out saying Vegas is a lock when you look at cases in LA and Chicago though?

    Yes I did. What set me straight on Cook wasn’t the per capita total cases which was bad but the per capita recent cases (last 7 days) which was very good. On external Covid alone Chicago is a better choice. Finally we found the stat where decency bias is useful. 😉

  65. N64 says:

    leadfarmer: Right place at the right time,
    Probably wouldn’t be higher than a depth defenseman in today’s game

    ~ Yeah. And Gretzky would get no ice time. I’ve seen him in oldtimer games ~

  66. N64 says:

    jp: Not trying to question the numbers really, but I was just browsing US state numbers (the 3 month slow burn in California is terrifying). It’s interesting that PA has the 4th lowest rate of tests per capita in the country. Could be a factor in their sterling case numbers (taking the President’s words to heart).

    The summer talk was overdone. Helping further north where summer takes socialization outdoors, but the US South has move onto their indoor weather. Sure hope bio-engineered antibodies at scale makes a difference for most vulnerable in the Fall. If I had to guess treatment for serious cases is already about 1/3 better overall from 3 months ago.

  67. unca miltie says:

    I was in my 30’s and a pretty serious Oiler fan during their cup runs. From my saw him good eyes, I truly do believe that Klowe deserves this honor. He was a stalwart on those teams, congratulations well deserved..

  68. N64 says:

    unca miltie:
    I was in my 30’s and a pretty serious Oiler fan during their cup runs. From my saw him good eyes, I truly do believe that Klowe deserves this honor. He was a stalwart on those teams, congratulations well deserved..

    Yes. It’s not reasonable to apply current positional imperatives to ignore the actual contributions in a different era, As noted the last stay home D HOF was decades ago. He’s last of that era now.

  69. jp says:

    N64: Yes I did. What set me straight on Cook wasn’t the per capita total cases which was bad but the per capita recent cases (last 7 days) which was very good. On external Covid alone Chicago is a better choice. Finally we found the stat where decency bias is useful. ?

    Yeah, it’s impressive how well they’ve recovered after having a relatively tough start.

  70. jp says:

    N64: The summer talk was overdone. Helping further north where summer takes socialization outdoors, but the US Southhas move onto their indoor weather. Sure hope bio-engineered antibodies at scale makes a difference for most vulnerable in the Fall. If I had to guess treatment for serious cases is already about 1/3 better overall from 3 months ago.

    Treatments have definitely improved some already. Cases (in America at least) certainly aren’t following the same trend though. It will be interesting to see how it all looks in the post-mortem.

  71. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Kevin Lowe made Team Canada for a couple Canada Cups – he was a very good player for a number of years.

    His management techniques will be mocked forever but as a player Lowe was, without having anything particularly outstanding in his game an outstanding player.

    One outstanding thing about Lowe was how he played the game like he was always in a bad mood lol

  72. geowal says:

    OriginalPouzar: While I’m not convinced Lowe deserved induction over a few of the others (i.e. Mogilny, Fleury), I vehemently disagree with the above premise.Kevin Lowe was not a “4th liner”

    Kevin Lowe made Team Canada for a couple Canada Cups – he was a very good player for a number of years.

    If that premise is solid, lets start talking about MacT – he’s got a bunch of cups, not 6 but a bunch.

    You’re inferring a premise that’s impossible. There are no 4th line Dmen. And MacT didn’t win 6 cups. Was Lowe the only person not in the hall with 6 cups? Quite possibly.

  73. Victoria Oil says:

    geowal: You’re inferring a premise that’s impossible. There are no 4th line Dmen. And MacT didn’t win 6 cups. Was Lowe the only person not in the hall with 6 cups? Quite possibly.

    Jean-Guy Talbot won 7 cups with Les Canadiens in the 50’s and 60’s but didn’t make it to the HHOF.

  74. oilersfan says:

    The thing with Lowe is, if he played on about 15 other teams would he have won even one cup?

    He was an excellent second pairing dmAn like Jason Smith or Robin Regehr but I don’t think either of those two will ever be in the hall. Excellent support player in the right place at the right time.

    Personally I always thought Huddy was just as good

  75. Reja says:

    Victoria Oil: Jean-Guy Talbot won 7 cups with Les Canadiens in the 50’s and 60’s but didn’t make it to the HHOF.

    A few less teams in the league back then.

  76. N64 says:

    jp: Yeah, it’s impressive how well they’ve recovered after having a relatively tough start.

    That bad start gave only a fraction of herd immunity, but that fraction helps reduce R below 1 in conjunction with distancing

  77. OriginalPouzar says:

    geowal: You’re inferring a premise that’s impossible. There are no 4th line Dmen. And MacT didn’t win 6 cups. Was Lowe the only person not in the hall with 6 cups? Quite possibly.

    The equivalent of a “4th line player” – the Kelly Buchburger of the defence.

    Point was amount of cups shouldn’t be a primary factor if the player was middling – a 4th line equivalent, as per the post I was responding to.

  78. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: His management techniques will be mocked forever but as a player Lowe was, without having anything particularly outstanding in his game an outstanding player.

    One outstanding thing about Lowe was how he played the game like he was always in a bad mood lol

    In the span of less than a year, he acquired Pronger, Peca, Spachec, Samsanov, Roloson and Tarnstrom and created the team that was a period away from the Stanley Cup.

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