One Night with Blue Note

The rookies played their second and final game of camp last night in Caglary, at the historic Saddledome. I made some observations.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, we are celebrating our 2-year anniversary this week. To mark the occasion, you can get 40% off subscriptions until Sept. 19 here.

  • New Lowetide: Can Mikko Koskinen and Mike Smith stop enough pucks for the Oilers?
  • Lowetide: Shutdown success by Darnell Nurse and Adam Larsson is a key for the Oilers in 2019-20.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Even if he’s unsure about his return, Oilers’ Connor McDavid looks and sounds like his old self
  • Lowetide: RE 19-20: How can the Oilers’ bottom six close the gap in goal differential?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Kailer Yamamoto and Tyler Benson address respective highs and lows as Oilers rookie camp begins
  • Jonathan Willis: Riley Sheahan is a prudent signing by the Oilers in more ways than one
  • Jonathan Willis: Did Milan Lucic take a shot at Connor McDavid’s leadership?
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers’ defensive hopes will rest on the new shutdown pair of Darnell Nurse and Adam Larsson
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: With Evan Bouchard as the headliner, here are the players to watch at Oilers rookie camp
  • Lowetide: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and the configuration of the Oilers second line
  • Lowetide: Connor McDavid’s 2019-20: Pushing for 50 goals while Dave Tippett loads up the Oilers’ top line
  • Lowetide: Estimating reasonable expectations for the 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers: A difficult journey
  • Jonathan Willis: How much money will Darnell Nurse make on his next NHL contract?
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s measured summer leaves Oilers outside playoffs.
  • Corey Pronman: Oilers No. 9 farm system.
  • Lowetide: Is Riley Sheahan an ideal fit for the Oilers as their No. 3 centre?
  • Lowetide: Oilers coach Dave Tippett might have to take drastic action in order to find a second outscoring line in 2019-20
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2021-22 Oilers might look like after their steady build toward contender status
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

LINEUP

Benson – Marody – Hebig
B. Starrett – McLeod – Maksimov
Safin – Iacobellis – Lavoie
Vesey – Stukel – Keeler

Samorukov – Bouchard
Cap – Day
Bellamy – Desharnais

Rodrigue
Skinner

Out: Yamamoto, De Jong

NOTES, FIRST PERIOD

Weak goal allowed by Olivier Rodrigue, marksmen Glenn Gawdin gets past Dmitri Samorukov and goes stick side. Nice skill.

Logan Day made a nice defensive play on what could have been a two-on-none. He pushed his way to the puck and cleared the danger.

Six minutes in, a nifty pass Tyler Benson to Cooper Marody for the first solid look of the game for Edmonton. Not a great shot but a quick release.

Terrible giveaway by I believe Beau Starrett via Ryan McLeod’s heater and it leads to a point blank chance and goal by Ruzicka. Terrible.

Nine minutes in, Logan Day makes a nice pinch and Tyler Benson, Cooper Marody and Cameron Hebig get some passing success. Nice sequence, Flames to the PP. Benson is playing with an edge in these games, that’ll get him noticed. Not a good penalty here, though.

Ryan McLeod and Kirill Maksimov are once again quality on the PK. Great forechecking by both and lots of effort. Nice save by Olivier Rodrigue.

Beau Starrett gets a SH chance, draws a penalty. Some nice looks, impressed by Evan Bouchard and Cooper Marody but no goals.

19 minutes in, Nolan Vesey with a burst and receives a lovely pass for what was probably the best chance for Edmonton in the period. Logan Day with the pass.

First Period Summary: Rodrigue gave up a goal he should stop but after that settled in. Samorukov had a tough rookie camp a year ago and it looks like he’s starting in similar fashion this year. The Benson-Marody-Hebig line is the only thing the team has going offensively up front, Evan Bouchard is sublime.

NOTES, SECOND PERIOD

Much better start to the second, top line gets the puck in deep, Dmitri Samorukov shot from the point is held.

Lavoie on a jailbreak, nice pass and no one can handle it. Lordy.

PP had a nice sequence, Benson to Marody but they couldn’t get a shot.

Samorukov, who has been inconsistent, makes a deft pass to Starrett, who feeds Lavoie for a real nice chance. A little momentum for the road team as we approach the midway point.

Ostap Safin to Iacobellis and my goodness what a save! Best chance by far for the Oilers rookies. In either game.

Evan Bouchard with a nice rush, his speed appears to be better this season. Early days.

Oilers to the PK, Rodrigue with a nice save early on in the five-on-four. He made another nice save, his 22nd, on the same PK, 32 minutes into the game.

Samorukov flattened a Flame at center ice.

Very nice save by Rodrigue on a long distance seeing eye shot from the point.

Second Period Summary: More of the same really, I don’t think any Oilers player beyond Olivier Rodrigue should consider it a great night. Bouchard is outstanding at this level, as one would expect. The Benson-Marody-Hebig line is noticeable, and getting looks, but there’s a hitch in their giddyup each time.

NOTES, THIRD PERIOD

Oilers get an early power play, win the draw and Evan Bouchard scores on one of those patented point shots that find daylight. 100 minutes into the rookie tournament, Oilers score: Bouchard (1) from Starrett.

Edmonton gets a power play but they’re not sharp at all. Lavoie gains the line and sends a terrible short pass that is intercepted. What’s more, Ruzicka gets the puck and owns it for days, at one point causing a four-on-one ‘swarm’ look to the power play, 100 miles away from the Calgary net.

Benson gets a good shot off from a nice pass from Bouchard. That could have tied it.

Marody had what looked like a promising sortie, but the net came of its moorings. The chem isn’t there for other lines, the Marody trio are going to have to make it happen (or Bouchard).

9.5 minutes in, Rodrigue makes another solid save on a tip from a point shot. A few minutes later another outstanding save on a point blank chance.

God they’re bad. Can’t make passes for love nor money.

Nice save by Rodrigue 14 minutes in. He’s the story

Third period summary: Olivier Rodrigue was outstanding, he really showed what he’s made of after a poor start. He stopped 40 of 42, .952 To my eye, Evan Bouchard also played well. The Benson-Marody-Hebig line had chances but couldn’t cash. We’re on to Rogers.

ROOKIE CAMP THOUGHTS

First, let’s all calm down. It was two games and to my eye there were three (Bouchard, Benson, Marody) possible NHL players on the entire roster. From the Calgary side, well done. Their farm system is flourishing and from the lineup who played for Calgary one has to believe Dillon Dube, Glenn Gawdin, Jakob Pelletier, Matthew Phillips, Adam Ruzicka, Dmitry Zavgorodniy, Eetu Tuulola Bankhead and others have a real chance to make it. Edmonton is better in terms of defensive prospects but the gap among forwards is real.

My list of players who helped themselves (Rodrigue, Bouchard, Benson and Marody aside) include Cameron Hebig, who was a buzzsaw and honestly might have been the best player on the top line; Beau Starrett, who made a ghastly play on the second GA but drew a penalty and earned the only assist by an Oilers player in rookie camp; Dylan Wells.

BENSON AND MARODY

We’re probably going to hear a lot about them today, but Marody was injured in game one, had a better game two but couldn’t cash. Benson did many good things (strong board work, physical, great passing) but nothing rhymed. Folks, we’re talking (probably) 30 minutes work for both men. They’ll get a chance to show what they can do in preseason and I expect at least two games for each man. I’ve predicted both will get sent down to Bakersfield and return midseason, but you can’t make any sweeping statements based on these two games.

JAY WOODCROFT

Buddy had three defensemen he would be familiar with and two of them weren’t firing on all cylinders. I’m thrilled he’s back in Bakersfield for another year. He is a big piece of the puzzle.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, TSN1260. A busy morning kicks off with Bruce McCurdy from the Cult of Hockey at the Edmonton Journal. We’ll chat about last night’s game and some of the big training camp battles. Kris Abbott from OddsShark will also drop in and we’ll talk NFL Week Two. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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115 Responses to "One Night with Blue Note"

  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pre-camp golf tourney – management/media/coaches/etc. – should be some solid verbal from the likes of Holland and Tippett.

  2. northerndancer says:

    Love the notes LT. ” for love nor money.” Probably better that I didn’t watch.

  3. geowal says:

    At the game last night.
    -Pretty sure I saw De Jong playing last night. I think he was in for Ethan Cap.
    -Rodrigue is tiny when down on his knees. Has to stand up as much as possible.
    -There may be future NHLers, but if you’re expecting anyone from this group to move the needle this season, my opinion is you’ll be disappointed. Some games played, sure.
    -I was surprised by the lack of physicality. Playing not to be injured.
    -Benson sure got under the Flames skin, for no apparent reason. They went after him in scrums at least 3 times.
    -Safin whiffed on a pretty good chance, may have drew laughter.
    -Bouchard looked calm out there.
    -disappointed in McLeods invisibility

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    From my eye on the main bubble players:

    – Benson and Marody were OK. Marody did make some nice little offensive plays, short and smart passes but, overall, for two players with a full year of AHL experience and who are expected to challenge for real NHL minutes throughout the year I would have expect some more “over dominance” – legit higher end skill plays like we saw from the flames higher end players, Dube, Gawdin, etc.

    – Through 5 periods, Bouchard showed his high end and NHL ready skills consistently – very smart and calm transition game, excellent offensive intrinsic on the break out, a zone exit monster, PP acumen with some crazy nack for getting pucks through. At the same time, through those 5 periods, he also got walked a few times and made some poor defensive reads to get beat to to net – 4 plays where he was directly culpable for HD scoring changes. He showed exactly why he should see some solid AHL time, learn from Dave Manson. Get used to the pro game and the grind without the pressure. Improve.

    He was dominant in the 3rd period last night.

    – Samorukov’s high risk defensive game was on display throughout. As per junior, super aggressive at the defensive blue line trying to break up rushes and neutral zone passes. Yes, a great hit in last night’s game doing that but, at the same time, 4 or so bad decisions that led to break against. As anticipated, he showed exactly what he needs to work on the most – picking his spots and better decision making. He can’t be as aggressive as he was in junior – the flames made an adjustment on him (chipped puck by him).

    ————————————–

    These games mean very little. No team structure or systems. At the same time, the likes of Benson and Marody should have stood out a bit more and will need to pick it up in the next week or they will be California bound.

    Biggest plus: Safin made some wonderful skilled plays and looks big and fast. He looks healthy and he looks good.

  5. Jethro Tull says:

    Historic Saddledome, where a dynasty was founded…..

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    rickithebear: Goal scorers generate offence.
    Passers recieve assists.

    How did they explain zooming.

    Do not care about points WOWY.

    Evg WOWY is we’re the truth lies!

    In a three year aggregate:

    The trip played 344 minutes togther and GF/60 was 2.96. This actually goes up a bit without Tatar during that time (in 193 minutes).

    Issue is the GA/60 skyrockets from from 1.22/60 with Tatar to over 4 without him.

    https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20132014&thruseason=20152016&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=y&team=DET&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2014-10-08&td=2015-04-11&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8476430&p2=8475772&p3=8475193&p4=0&p5=0

  7. hunter1909 says:

    IT’S BACK!!!!!!!!! FOR ANOTHER EXCITING, INCREDIBLE SEASON FREE TO ENTER + PLAY

    Hunter1909’s Official 2019-20 Death March™

    Entries welcome between now and the first puck drop of the 2019-20 season(October 2)

    Here’s how you play: Guess how many points the Oilers get in the regular season.

    That’s it!

    Tie break: How many regular season goals does JP score for his new Finnish team?

  8. 106 and 106 says:

    Everybody was playing for their professional lives, and the Oilers are a fantastic 20th place team in the NHL.

    The QoC on most nights is going to be higher on other teams than the Oilers have.

    Not enough ploughmen.

  9. northerndancer says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Historic Saddledome, where a dynasty was founded…..

    True fact that Calgarians hate to hear. The Saddledome design was a rip off of the Gothenberg Scandanavium of at least a decade before. The arch awards given it should be a mark of shame for the profession.

    Now, returning to the game. Once Samarukov learns to pick his spots he will be a beast. What a step up hit.

  10. dustrock says:

    Have a feeling a guy like Benson is going to look better with players who actually know the systems.

    He has the skill set to make it with skill players, particularly with his puck sense, that not a lot of prospects have.

    But yes, you’d hope for more than 1 goal through 2 games.

  11. tileguy says:

    Why was KY out of the lineup?

  12. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    geowal:

    -There may be future NHLers, but if you’re expecting anyone from this group to move the needle this season, my opinion is you’ll be disappointed. Some games played, sure.

    – This is my take as well.

    – It’s basically:

    Archibald, Granlund, Haas, Jurco, Nygard, Sheahan, Cave, Gags

    vs

    Reider, (Strome)/Spooner, Pool, Rattie, Brodz, Cags, Cave, Gags

    – And cups of coffee, development and hope for surprise from the AHL draft and develop cohort

    – And any delta between Lucic v Neal is the gravy. (Lucic at worst is a possession player in checking role, Neal needs to score like before to compensate for awful possession #’s)

  13. ArmchairGM says:

    geowal: -There may be future NHLers, but if you’re expecting anyone from this group to move the needle this season, my opinion is you’ll be disappointed. Some games played, sure.

    This is the truth.

  14. leeinvan says:

    The team could have used Yamo last night, the forwards never looked comfortable in both games. If ever there was doubt that the Oilers need to draft forwards, I think the last 2 games speak for them selves.

    Next draft, no d Men and for the love of god no more goalies.

  15. ArmchairGM says:

    tileguy:
    Why was KY out of the lineup?

    He hasn’t been cleared to play from last season’s wrist injury.

  16. godot10 says:

    northerndancer: True fact that Calgarians hate to hear.The Saddledome design was a rip off of the GothenbergScandanavium of at least a decade before.The arch awards given it should be a mark of shame for the profession.

    Especially since the architecture impacted its functionality as a venue for major concert tours, which had to avoid it.

  17. digger50 says:

    I was left with the impression that Marody and Benson will be more effective in tight, they have some grit and can work the boards.

    If I could envision someone who could work a fast give and go with Connor or Leon, I would be looking at McLeod. I would be interested to see him on the wing with an NHL center.

  18. Jethro Tull says:

    I was a little disconcerted listening to a sound bite from Jay Woodcroft this morning. He said they didn’t have a game plan, but wanted to see the effort and will from the guys against their peers before they move on to competing against established players this week.

    So it seemed like a “chicken with it’s head cut off” approach. Me, if there’s players there that I don’t know much about, I’d want to know if they are coachable, but more importantly, are they any good?

    For me, this says to me that the Oilers still don’t invest much time in their youngsters. There’s kind of a catch all approach where “gritensity” and “battle” are still valued above all else.

    I’ve advocated for individual development plans for these prospects before. They should have been assessed and judged on any performance indicators in their plan. It should be “what did we tell Marody to concentrate on?”, “what does his year end say”, “Cooper, in tonight’s game, I want you to show me what we’ve agreed you’ve worked on and improved upon.”

    Maybe a team that seems to draft well is a by-product of a team that also develops well. Maybe Ken will change that. We usually only say a team drafts well with hindsight. With more evidence emerging from the scientific community that it’s how much practice and quality of training that affects an athletes performance, rather than innate skill (there’s outliers – Lebron, Connor, Schumy, etc). There’s currently experiments under way that is trying to take athletic individuals and make them top of a discipline that has never interested them.

    This, I believe is where the Oilers are miles behind. Why the high end draft picks without the innate skills of McDavid and Hall (who would succeed despite anything, they’re that good) or the mental resilience of RNH.

    If rebuilding through prospects and the draft is Ken’s plan A, then we have to stop burning through these guys.

  19. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Was it a rookie game Magnus Paajarvi scored a hatrick and everyone thought he was going to be great?

  20. Clarkenstein says:

    My takeaway from watching 75% of the game is that Oil rooks just weren’t busting their ass! If I was trying to impress the Brass I’d skate till I puked. There were some exceptions but overall it looked like a bunch of juniors just happy to be there.

  21. godot10 says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Was it a rookie game Magnus Paajarvi scored a hatrick and everyone thought he was going to be great?

    It wasn’t a rookie game.

  22. hunter1909 says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Was it a rookie game Magnus Paajarvi scored a hatrick and everyone thought he was going to be great?

    It was a full on exhibition game. With as much honest to effing value as a shinny pickup game outside Recall Place.

  23. Professor Q says:

    geowal:
    At the game last night.
    -Pretty sure I saw De Jong playing last night. I think he was in for Ethan Cap.
    -Rodrigue is tiny when down on his knees. Has to stand up as much as possible.
    -There may be future NHLers, but if you’re expecting anyone from this group to move the needle this season, my opinion is you’ll be disappointed. Some games played, sure.
    -I was surprised by the lack of physicality. Playing not to be injured.
    -Benson sure got under the Flames skin, for no apparent reason. They went after him in scrums at least 3 times.
    -Safin whiffed on a pretty good chance, may have drew laughter.
    -Bouchard looked calm out there.
    -disappointed in McLeods invisibility

    De Jong was playing, but Lowetide had him out. He wasn’t in for Ethan Cap (who was out). The hosts and broadcasters said that Jaxon Bellamy was in for Cap. He wasn’t too good.

    Flames did not even wait to go after Benson in scrums! There were two distinct crosschecks to his face randomly, both uncalled. The one after his shot was supposedly due to him shooting “after the whistle”, but he was already engaged in his shot swing as the whistle was being blown (and the refs really enjoyed blowing them randomly). There was also a second, later shot by an Oiler while a whistle was blown, and another scrum ensued.

    I never understand why players think they’re cool or protecting their goalie by attacking players in the same scenario. Because they’re not.

  24. jtblack says:

    Listening to Hitch on NHL Radio. He thinks Koski is going to have a Great year. Lets hope so

  25. McNuge93 says:

    jtblack:
    Listening to Hitch on NHL Radio. He thinks Koski is going to have a Great year.Lets hope so

    Could you see if his fingers were crossed. Oh wait, it was radio.

  26. defmn says:

    Clarkenstein:
    My takeaway from watching 75% of the game is that Oil rooks just weren’tbusting their ass! If I was trying to impress the Brass I’d skate till I puked. There were some exceptions but overall it looked like a bunch of juniors just happy to be there.

    I left the game after the 2nd period for the same reason. The Flames rookies came out looking like they were all in the middle of a steroid rage attack and the Oilers looked like they wanted to play a ‘skill’ game that didn’t need effort to work.

    Predictably it did not work. Benson tried to rally the troops but all he accomplished was to get sent to the penalty box. Safin was the best offensive player on the night imo. That is both good and bad news.

    Samorukov is raw but that boy has a lot to like once he learns the pro game. He’s got wheels, passing, and toughness but OP is right about his weaknesses. I’m not sure if it was on purpose or accidental but on the Flames first goal they broke out of their end by taking advantage of his penchant to defend the line. They went right at him and he stood the first guy up and kept the puck in but the Flames had a guy right behind the first guy that picked up the puck and took off with nobody to stop him because Samorukov was still tied up with the first guy. It could have been an accident but from where I was sitting it sure looked like a play designed by scouting. That said it is an easy fix once he gets to Bakersfield.

    There were a few flashes of skill but the Flames were skating like it was game 7 of the series and the Oilers were not so it was hard to watch from the stands.

    And, my god, do you think they could wash the floors in that place once in a while. The beer was so thick I thought my shoes were going to stick to the cement if I left them sitting in one place for too long. (Yes, I am getting old).

  27. OriginalPouzar says:

    northerndancer: True fact that Calgarians hate to hear.The Saddledome design was a rip off of the GothenbergScandanavium of at least a decade before.The arch awards given it should be a mark of shame for the profession.

    Now, returning to the game.Once Samarukov learns to pick his spots he will be a beast.What a step up hit.

    Yes, to me, watching him in junior and through these two games, the main thing I look for in his development this year is learning to pick his spots and related decision making.

    I noticed in the OHL playoffs and the Memorial Cup how aggressive he was at the blue line – he was dominant defensively because of it, rarely missed, however, I “feared” he would be exposed at the next level if he tried to be so aggressive. As it turns out, the “fears” have come to light, even against, “uneven quality of opposition”.

    I’m highly confident he will develop this through the year – he will indeed be directly responsible for many goals against early in the year but will improve throughout, that is my assumption.

  28. geowal says:

    Professor Q: Flames did not even wait to go after Benson in scrums! There were two distinct crosschecks to his face randomly, both uncalled. The one after his shot was supposedly due to him shooting “after the whistle”, but he was already engaged in his shot swing as the whistle was being blown (and the refs really enjoyed blowing them randomly). There was also a second, later shot by an Oiler while a whistle was blown, and another scrum ensued.

    Yeah, I remember that “late” shot. There was also a couple jabs at loose pucks that led to a Benson takedown (I was just worried about him getting hurt on the fall)

  29. Dipsy Doodle Dandy says:

    leeinvan,

    Just a general comment of yesterday’s game. I’d like Oilers to draft some quicker, speedy, forwards in the future that can dart into area’s and create open space. Guys like Safin, Lavoie, and Maksimov have straight ahead speed but they don’t create open ice for themselves or linemates. Last night the forwards would get the puck over the blueline but have no where to go with it. Same with Benson. Lot’s of time he was in the offensive zone looking for players to open up or go for the net but no one did. Probably a deficiency that Holland noticed in the NHL lineup as well. That’s why they added Granlund, Nyguard, and Archibald.

  30. defmn says:

    Peter Chiarelli hasn’t landed a new GM job, but will be working in a front office this season. Renaud Lavoie of TVA Sports reports that the former Edmonton Oilers executive will serve as a consultant for the St. Louis Blues. Chiarelli has worked as a GM for both Edmonton and the Boston Bruins, where he won a Stanley Cup in 2011.

  31. Material Elvis says:

    Jethro Tull:
    I was a little disconcerted listening to a sound bite from Jay Woodcroft this morning.He said they didn’t have a game plan, but wanted to see the effort and will from the guys against their peers before they move on to competing against established players this week.

    So it seemed like a “chicken with it’s head cut off” approach.Me, if there’s players there that I don’t know much about, I’d want to know if they are coachable, but more importantly, are they any good?

    For me, this says to me that the Oilers still don’t invest much time in their youngsters.There’s kind of a catch all approach where “gritensity” and “battle” are still valued above all else.

    I’ve advocated for individual development plans for these prospects before.They should have been assessed and judged on any performance indicators in their plan.It should be “what did we tell Marody to concentrate on?”, “what does his year end say”, “Cooper, in tonight’s game, I want you to show me what we’ve agreed you’ve worked on and improved upon.”

    Maybe a team that seems to draft well is a by-product of a team that also develops well.Maybe Ken will change that.We usually only say a team drafts well with hindsight.With more evidence emerging from the scientific community that it’s how much practice and quality of training that affects an athletes performance, rather than innate skill (there’s outliers – Lebron, Connor, Schumy, etc).There’s currently experiments under way that is trying to take athletic individuals and make them top of a discipline that has never interested them.

    This, I believe is where the Oilers are miles behind.Why the high end draft picks without the innate skills of McDavid and Hall (who would succeed despite anything, they’re that good) or the mental resilience of RNH.

    If rebuilding through prospects and the draft is Ken’s plan A, then we have to stop burning through these guys.

    All the players get an individual player development plan before the season starts, as per Scott Howson (and reaffirmed by Tyler Wright in his radio interview on ‘the other station’ this summer).

    I wouldn’t make any firm ideas or notions about the development of the players based on the two rookie games — it’s shinny, basically. The play is so disjointed and several of the players are way over their heads.

    More to your point, the Oilers have not drafted enough forward talent in the past few years and that really shows.

  32. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Playing with no plan might let the eyeballs above see who are the more gifted players. They’ll still get ‘er done.

  33. OriginalPouzar says:

    This is hearsay, as I haven’t seen the verbal yet and didn’t catch it live, but I guess Holland says McDavid is unlikely to play any preseason games.

    That is disappointing for me – I don’t think it means he won’t be 100% when the season starts, however, a couple exhibition games would be beneficial – I hope he is fully participating in camp (other than these games) – that is important.

    Not the end of the world but not ideal.

  34. Sunnyboy says:

    While the 2 rookie games mean little, I thought maybe the oilers would have a bounce back effort after game 1 and was disappointed none the less. The phlems, with Dube and of course Valimaki not in their lineup as first year pros for game 2, a conclusion could be drawn that the 31st rank for their prospects is somewhat suspect based on early returns. I hope that continued chatter of oiler youngsters is not overblown by familiarity or hometown bias and that expectations be tempered by our hosts reminders that very few of them,maybe only Bouchard (hopefully more) will be NHLers.

  35. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, to me, watching him in junior and through these two games, the main thing I look for in his development this year is learning to pick his spots and related decision making.

    I noticed in the OHL playoffs and the Memorial Cup how aggressive he was at the blue line – he was dominant defensively because of it, rarely missed, however, I “feared” he would be exposed at the next level if he tried to be so aggressive. As it turns out, the “fears” have come to light, even against, “uneven quality of opposition”.

    I’m highly confident he will develop this through the year – he will indeed be directly responsible for many goals against early in the year but will improve throughout, that is my assumption.

    It is not the fault of the defensemen for standing up at the blueline. If something bad happens, it is the fault of others. He D partner for leaving the centre open, or forwards, for not providing sufficient back pressure, and getting caught up ice. Defending the blue line is the right thing the vast majority of the time. Forwards should be skating harder backwards towards their own zone than forwards into the attacking zone.

    Some people have been watching Russell play hockey badly too much.

  36. godot10 says:

    defmn:
    Peter Chiarelli hasn’t landed a new GM job, but will be working in a front office this season. Renaud Lavoie of TVA Sports reports that the former Edmonton Oilers executive will serve as a consultant for the St. Louis Blues. Chiarelli has worked as a GM for both Edmonton and the Boston Bruins, where he won a Stanley Cup in 2011.

    It is a good thing to have Pete along as a consultant. Ask him what he thinks should be done, and then go and do the opposite.

  37. Scungilli Slushy says:

    defmn:
    Peter Chiarelli hasn’t landed a new GM job, but will be working in a front office this season. Renaud Lavoie of TVA Sports reports that the former Edmonton Oilers executive will serve as a consultant for the St. Louis Blues. Chiarelli has worked as a GM for both Edmonton and the Boston Bruins, where he won a Stanley Cup in 2011.

    I wonder what advice he’ll give. More beef bcs Maroon is gone?

  38. Ben says:

    Craig Simpson opting out of Stauffer’s show must have been a real Marie Kondo moment for him.

  39. Jethro Tull says:

    Ben:
    Craig Simpson opting out of Stauffer’s show must have been a real Marie Kondo moment for him.

    To quote Gene Principe: “Getting rich by telling people to tidy up sounds like a Konmari…..”

  40. frjohnk says:

    defmn:
    Peter Chiarelli hasn’t landed a new GM job, but will be working in a front office this season. Renaud Lavoie of TVA Sports reports that the former Edmonton Oilers executive will serve as a consultant for the St. Louis Blues. Chiarelli has worked as a GM for both Edmonton and the Boston Bruins, where he won a Stanley Cup in 2011.

    Mike Milbury got a hockey gig after reign of GM terror, so Im not surprised with Chia getting a hockey gig after his disastrous GM resume with the Oilers.

  41. frjohnk says:

    godot10: It is a good thing to have Pete along as a consultant.Ask him what he thinks should be done, and then go and do the opposite.

    Ha ha. yup

  42. OriginalPouzar says:

    geowal:

    -There may be future NHLers, but if you’re expecting anyone from this group to move the needle this season, my opinion is you’ll be disappointed. Some games played, sure.

    I can’t disagree with this, however, a player can impact the lineup without “moving the needle” individually, per se.

    For example, a guy like Benson being able to be serviceable as a 2LW could do each of the following:

    – allow Neal to play 2RW where he is the most comfortable and giving him the best chance to bounce back and be successful

    – bumps a guy like Chiasson out of the top 6

    – bumps a guy like Nygard down to the fourth line where maybe he forms an effective and speedy forcehcking line with the likes of Khaira who can keep and bring momentum

    – bumps a tweener like Cave out of the lineup or off the roster

    Of course, there is always the “hope” that someone does indeed exceed expectations – maybe Joel Persson is a legit 2RD or a solid 3RD and PP guru, for example…..

  43. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    Apparently the fLames just re-signed Michael Stone ($700k) after buying him out last month. I honestly didn’t think that re-signing a player you just bought out was allowed… but here we are.

    Still hoping Tkachuk holds out for $8M+

    I soooo want to see them get cap-screwed…

  44. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull:
    I was a little disconcerted listening to a sound bite from Jay Woodcroft this morning.He said they didn’t have a game plan, but wanted to see the effort and will from the guys against their peers before they move on to competing against established players this week.

    So it seemed like a “chicken with it’s head cut off” approach.Me, if there’s players there that I don’t know much about, I’d want to know if they are coachable, but more importantly, are they any good?

    For me, this says to me that the Oilers still don’t invest much time in their youngsters.There’s kind of a catch all approach where “gritensity” and “battle” are still valued above all else.

    I’ve advocated for individual development plans for these prospects before.They should have been assessed and judged on any performance indicators in their plan.It should be “what did we tell Marody to concentrate on?”, “what does his year end say”, “Cooper, in tonight’s game, I want you to show me what we’ve agreed you’ve worked on and improved upon.”

    Maybe a team that seems to draft well is a by-product of a team that also develops well.Maybe Ken will change that.We usually only say a team drafts well with hindsight.With more evidence emerging from the scientific community that it’s how much practice and quality of training that affects an athletes performance, rather than innate skill (there’s outliers – Lebron, Connor, Schumy, etc).There’s currently experiments under way that is trying to take athletic individuals and make them top of a discipline that has never interested them.

    This, I believe is where the Oilers are miles behind.Why the high end draft picks without the innate skills of McDavid and Hall (who would succeed despite anything, they’re that good) or the mental resilience of RNH.

    If rebuilding through prospects and the draft is Ken’s plan A, then we have to stop burning through these guys.

    I think this is a massive stretch.

    He said they were not concentrating on systems and structure not that they were to go play shiny out there.

    The coaching staff has spoken specifically with respect to training plans for players and there were only a handful of players in the lineup last night that have been coached in a game by this staff before and about half the roster will never even play an AHL game for this organization

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    Not much from Holland but he did say in addition to the 0-1 preseason games for McDavid:

    – There are going to make cuts at the end of the weekend before any preseason games – some junior guys mainly (just give them some time around the NHL guys on the weekend and send them on their way.

    – When asked about if he sees Bouchard going to the AHL, he was non-committal, of course, said he leans towards development but makes exceptions (Larkin at 19). Mentioned lots of d-men battling (in order he mentioned Persson, Lagesson, Bear, Jones, Bouch, Samorukov, Manning). Wants to to see them in preseason

    – Connected to above, they will carry 7D (so not 8)

    – Bouch is fighting for the top 6 – he’ll talk to the coach and, if a young player isn’t in the lineup – to the AHL he goes – they need to carry two youngsters (including Persson) – maybe Russ does sit.

    – Would rather make a call to call a player up in-season than to send a player down.

    – Likely no PTOs

  46. Professor Q says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    Apparently the fLames just re-signed Michael Stone ($700k) after buying him out last month. I honestly didn’t think that re-signing a player you just bought out was allowed… but here we are.

    Still hoping Tkachuk holds out for $8M+

    I soooo want to see them get cap-screwed…

    Yes, I thought that also.

    Flames fans are justifying it as the League seeing it as a legitimate backtrack to cover for one of their D being recently injured, so not circumventing the cap. Otherwise they could shut it down to their discretion.

  47. defmn says:

    Jim Matheson
    ‏ @NHLbyMatty
    16m16 minutes ago

    Oiler GM Ken Holland says he has talked to Russian RW Anton Burdasov’s agent Ritch Winter a fair bit but if 28-year-old KHL player wants to come to Edm it could just be a PTO.

  48. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think this is a massive stretch.

    He said they were not concentrating on systems and structure not that they were to go play shiny out there.

    The coaching staff has spoken specifically with respect to training plans for players and there were only a handful of players in the lineup last night that have been coached in a game by this staff before and about half the roster will never even play an AHL game for this organization

    The proof is in the pudding.

    We have had one #1OV (Yak) be poorly developed.

    We have had a few (most notably Riley Nash) refuse to sign.

    We have now a high end talent (JP) wanting out, without even giving “new” management a try.

    We haven’t had a solid prospect pipeline for years. I’m not talking stagnation (or over-perculated, I believe has been used), I’m talking “just enough, just in time.”

    Have you never wondered why some teams seem to have a slew of talent coming through, no matter where they draft?

    Is it good scouting? I think it’s been proven on here that beyond the home runs, it’s a crap shoot. A bit, but not as much as one would think. The way we seem to develop these young men is also a significant factor. And I don’t just mean hockey wise. These are formative years where you set up shop as the person you’re likely to be for a good chunk of your life.

    I’m talking about a much more focused, intensive development. But that requires good assessment. And assessment from as many sources as you can get.

    I don’t know if it’s laziness or ineptitude or just ignorance with the Oilers. But I fully expect skill and aptitude to once again take second place to “wants to be an Oiler”, ‘I like how he is out there” and “knows what it takes”, and other tired cliches that have denied this team the prospects it desperately needs.

    If Ken isn’t trading, then he needs to sort this shit out stat, otherwise there’ll be two years left on Connor’s contract before the first good ones are ready.

  49. Jethro Tull says:

    Professor Q: Yes, I thought that also.

    Flames fans are justifying it as the League seeing it as a legitimate backtrack to cover for one of their D being recently injured, so not circumventing the cap. Otherwise they could shut it down to their discretion.

    I can’t believe the league is allowing this. Stone should be re-instated, or the original cap-hit should count. This is as clear a circumvention as it can be. Gives them more room for what’s his nuts.

    Reading the comments on the Sportsnet thread is hilarious. There’s an obvious troll there called Chia-living, and someone who proposes Brodie and Frolik for Nylander.

  50. digger50 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    This is hearsay, as I haven’t seen the verbal yet and didn’t catch it live, but I guess Holland says McDavid is unlikely to play any preseason games.

    That is disappointing for me – I don’t think it means he won’t be 100% when the season starts, however, a couple exhibition games would be beneficial – I hope he is fully participating in camp (other than these games) – that is important.

    Not the end of the world but not ideal.

    Well maybe it is a huge deal. Connor is at a 50% injury rate.

    Projecting years ahead to when this team finally comes together, we have to allow that he may not be there. Connors best years are now. As much fun as prospects are, at some point future assets will have to be sacrificed to improve the present, that’s reality, and I’m fine with it because Connor still represents Edmonton’s biggest hope of a turnaround. Patience is fine, but the clock is ticking.

  51. Professor Q says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Not much from Holland but he did say in addition to the 0-1 preseason games for McDavid:

    – There are going to make cuts at the end of the weekend before any preseason games – some junior guys mainly (just give them some time around the NHL guys on the weekend and send them on their way.

    – When asked about if he sees Bouchard going to the AHL, he was non-committal, of course, said he leans towards development but makes exceptions (Larkin at 19). Mentioned lots of d-men battling (in order he mentioned Persson, Lagesson, Bear, Jones, Bouch, Samorukov, Manning).Wants to to see them in preseason

    – Connected to above, they will carry 7D (so not 8)

    – Bouch is fighting for the top 6 – he’ll talk to the coach and, if a young player isn’t in the lineup – to the AHL he goes – they need to carry two youngsters (including Persson) – maybe Russ does sit.

    – Would rather make a call to call a player up in-season than to send a player down.

    – Likely no PTOs

    I also liked how he seemed very interested in reviving the Penticton Tournament, if only in spirit, not name.

    Would prefer to have a tournament style rookie showcase, with more than two teams. Compared it to the Traverse City Prospects Tournament, but would need to find teams to play with (TCPT already has too many teams it seems at 8). They have teams closest to us, too, so that would be a bit hard to traverse and compete with.

  52. hunter1909 says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Playing with no plan might let the eyeballs above see who are the more gifted players. They’ll still get ‘er done.

    It’s like setting a bunch of boisterous kids loose on each other, to give management an idea which ones can create stuff from nothing. MacT’s Oilers always played like they had popsicles shoved up inside them and what did that ever achieve?

    Then Tippett immediately starts using the trap for lines 2 3 and 4 and I’ll cheer them on like I’m from Newark.

  53. hunter1909 says:

    digger50: Projecting years ahead to when this team finally comes together, we have to allow that he may not be there.

    Funny thing but when Gretzky left Edmonton I certainly don’t recall the team coming together. The team fell apart within 3-4 years.

    McDavid leaving would be catastrophic for the franchise. Maybe that’s just me whining like some old bitter Habs fan.

  54. Scungilli Slushy says:

    hunter1909: It’s like setting a bunch of boisterous kids loose on each other, to give management an idea which ones can create stuff from nothing. MacT’s Oilers always played like they had popsicles shoved up inside them and what did that ever achieve?

    Then Tippett immediately starts using the trap for lines 2 3 and 4 and I’ll cheer them on like I’m from Newark.

    Ha!

    I don’t think Tip plays trap. He’s a central ice clogger. Teams should push play to the low percentage areas. Take away good ice he says.

    The Blues did what most teams couldn’t against Boston, the took the Bergeron Marchand triangle away.

    So simple and it meant to get to the blue paint in front it had to be all beating players one on one. And they couldn’t. A lot of jam plays at net side (would have worked against the Oilers last season) no joy.

    I remember some Blue saying they stopped chasing them and occupied the space they normally pass out to.

    If the Oilers don’t have to play some complicated D system and just do the simple and effective, given they have more dangerous forwards it could work out well. As Holland has said they just need the helpers the hard part is getting the drivers.

    One caveat is that O Reilly is a special player and the Oilers have no forward like that. If they can find the shit down forward that can score well watch out. Nuge is awesome but doesn’t have the size and range O Reilly does.

    McLeod should have RoR as his role model. Both were meh junior scorers. If McLeod can find around a better point per game in the NHL and use his blazing speed and defensive ability he could be a lynchpin. I’m don’t think he has the crust RoR has , but he could study it, he’s not going to be an offense first player.

  55. hunter1909 says:

    Jethro Tull: I don’t know if it’s laziness or ineptitude or just ignorance with the Oilers.

    I really hate to bang on the same drum but when you rationally assess the Lowe+MacT era all three of your factors come floating to the top like so much…

    …which is why I have so much faith in Holland+Tippett. Both are 100% proven, respected professionals, unlike the nepotistic pioneer era medicine show that Oilers fans have been enduring for so long.

    This is why I 100% expect an instant turnaround with the team’s fortunes. Sun Tzu calls this: Moral Leadership. Hockey players, like young men everywhere respond favourably to intelligent, considerate management.

  56. Scungilli Slushy says:

    hunter1909: Funny thing but when Gretzky left Edmonton I certainly don’t recall the team coming together. The team fell apart within 3-4 years.

    McDavid leaving would be catastrophic for the franchise. Maybe that’s just me whining like some old bitter Habs fan.

    They won a Cup. The rest was old hockey world scumbagness .

  57. gimme shelter says:

    I saw the article on Chiapet signing on as a consultant with St.Louis on Sportsnet. I read some of the comments and they were over whelming stating that Chia was hired as an anti advisor. Meaning you would take his advice and do the exact opposite.
    St.louis was the Stanley Cup champions this year. Chia failed in Boston and Edmonton as G.M. Why would St.Louis hire him? They won the Stanley Cup on their own. Why do they need a consultant of any calibre? Is Chia a friend of the owner? That one is a head shaker at best.Chia must have some unknown quality not seen in Boston and Edmonton.

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Was it a rookie game Magnus Paajarvi scored a hatrick and everyone thought he was going to be great?

    Exhibition (preseason) game I believe.

    At the same time, I’d prefer to have the players perform and produce out there, even if it would mean very little, than show less than expected, even if that also means very little.

  59. hunter1909 says:

    Scungilli Slushy: They won a Cup. The rest was old hockey world scumbagness .

    I seriously thought they were setting themselves up for another cup or two, until as we all know everyone left Dodge to chase the NY “dream”. Once Mess left I literally quit following NHL hockey for 10 years. recently I’ve been doing just that with English football. Amazing just how silly it looks when you can look back on a decade of soccer and realise you don’t even give a single fuck anymore.

    Just what do they say following sports is like? Soap operas for men?

  60. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack:
    Listening to Hitch on NHL Radio. He thinks Koski is going to have a Great year.Lets hope so

    He said along of things last year that didn’t come true or were even straight up false:

    – can’t play a forward over 22 min if they PK

    – going to fix Puljuarvi

  61. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: He said along of things last year that didn’t come true or were even straight up false:

    – can’t play a forward over 22 min if they PK

    – going to fix Puljuarvi

    Hitch gave everyone hope even if that only lasted 12 games. The game might have passed him by but his heart’s always been in the right place which is more than I can say for many former Oiler management types who preferred to use subterfuge to cover up their own flaws.

  62. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: I

    Samorukov is raw but that boy has a lot to like once he learns the pro game. He’s got wheels, passing, and toughness but OP is right about his weaknesses. I’m not sure if it was on purpose or accidental but on the Flames first goal they broke out of their end by taking advantage of his penchant to defend the line. They went right at him and he stood the first guy up and kept the puck in but the Flames had a guy right behind the first guy that picked up the puck and took off with nobody to stop him because Samorukov was still tied up with the first guy. It could have been an accident but from where I was sitting it sure looked like a play designed by scouting. That said it is an easy fix once he gets to Bakersfield.

    That was a play where I thought the same thing – it looked like a coaching adjustment, knowing Sammy was going to step up and a tactic devised to get around him with numbers.

    Even if that particular play wasn’t a pre-scouted tactic, you know NHL and AHL teams will indeed scout and adjust.

    I expect some “struggles” in this regard for Sammy earlier in the year but, working with Manson and learning will help him improve – I guess that’s what we call “development in the proper league”.

  63. HT Joe says:

    digger50: As much fun as prospects are, at some point future assets will have to be sacrificed to improve the present, that’s reality, and I’m fine with it because Connor still represents Edmonton’s biggest hope of a turnaround. Patience is fine, but the clock is ticking.

    Nothing has happened except for ticking clocks since Katz bought the team. I agree that for the Oilers to have so few players pan out, not only would their drafting have to be poor, but so would their development… lots for Holland to fix.

  64. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot: It is not the fault of the defensemen for standing up at the blueline.If something bad happens, it is the fault of others.He D partner for leaving the centre open, or forwards, for not providing sufficient back pressure, and getting caught up ice.Defending the blue line is the right thing the vast majority of the time.Forwards should be skating harder backwards towards their own zone than forwards into the attacking zone.

    Some people have been watching Russell play hockey badly too much.

    Sorry but I simply cannot agree with this.

    I watched the entirety of both games and he either mistimed his move or was simply beat by the flames and their structure.

    Yes, of course, defence is a full team concept, all 5 need to be working together, however, Sammy was making individual mistakes, both mental and in effectiveness. Part of that aggressive defence of the blueline is knowing where your teammates are and identifying the situation.

    Not even Adam Larsson is able to step up with half the frequency Sammy did in junior and was trying to do in these two games.

    He’s 20 – he’ll adjust with development and experience.

  65. hunter1909 says:

    HT Joe: lots for Holland to fix.

    I’ll stake everything I know about pro sports on Holland+Tippett turning the Oilers around instantly.

    Chiarelli was dodgy in my opinion when I watched the Bruins arguing over whether to trade Seguin. McLellan lost my respect as soon as blew that 3-1 lead vs the Ducks and the fact that both of these men had not been put together in any cooperative way screwed up everything. Eakins was completely out of his depth; ditto MacT which meant this was another failed attempt to win in the NHL.

    No need to go any further back, since everything since the Sather era has simply been a hockey fans nightmare lol

  66. OriginalPouzar says:

    CrazyPedestrian:
    Apparently the fLames just re-signed Michael Stone ($700k) after buying him out last month. I honestly didn’t think that re-signing a player you just bought out was allowed… but here we are.

    Still hoping Tkachuk holds out for $8M+

    I soooo want to see them get cap-screwed…

    The year hold period only applied to “compliance buyouts”.

  67. Scungilli Slushy says:

    gimme shelter:
    I saw the article on Chiapet signing on as a consultant with St.Louis on Sportsnet. I read some of the comments and they were over whelming stating that Chia was hired as an anti advisor. Meaning you would take his advice and do the exact opposite.
    St.louis was the Stanley Cup champions this year. Chia failed in Boston and Edmonton as G.M. Why would St.Louis hire him? They won the Stanley Cup on their own. Why do they need a consultant of any calibre? Is Chia a friend of the owner? That one is a head shaker at best.Chia must have some unknown quality not seen in Boston and Edmonton.

    His mysterious quality is ‘good hockey man team canada etc etc’.

    He knows people and he knows the league.

    It happens all over the world in many sports. I am not one that buys into the Silicon Valley baby geniuses disrupting the world, and I also don’t buy into stale.

    Progressive and well experienced works the best IMO. Baby geniuses have their run and get their gold until wildly selfish and destructive business behaviour wakes up the sleeping who are supposed to keep an eye on things.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull: The proof is in the pudding.

    I don’t know if it’s laziness or ineptitude or just ignorance with the Oilers…………..

    Your original post implied (almost expressed directly) that it was the former:’

    – not willing

    and

    – being ineffective

    are two different things.

    I don’t believe they don’t invest adequate time and resources and prioritize development and I don’t agree that the lack of system play for the two prospects games should imply the same.

  69. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull: I can’t believe the league is allowing this.Stone should be re-instated, or the original cap-hit should count.This is as clear a circumvention as it can be.Gives them more room for what’s his nuts.

    Reading the comments on the Sportsnet thread is hilarious.There’s an obvious troll there called Chia-living, and someone who proposes Brodie and Frolik for Nylander.

    This is perfectly legal and is not clear circumvention – they had a major injury to a top 6 d-man late in the off-season. Signing a cheap NHL caliber d-man after an injury…..

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    Gryba heading to flames camp on a PTO.

  71. Scungilli Slushy says:

    hunter1909: I seriously thought they were setting themselves up for another cup or two, until as we all know everyone left Dodge to chase the NY “dream”. Once Mess left I literally quit following NHL hockey for 10 years. recently I’ve been doing just that with English football. Amazing just how silly it looks when you can look back on a decade of soccer and realise you don’t even give a single fuck anymore.

    Just what do they say following sports is like? Soap operas for men?

    hunter1909: I seriously thought they were setting themselves up for another cup or two, until as we all know everyone left Dodge to chase the NY “dream”. Once Mess left I literally quit following NHL hockey for 10 years. recently I’ve been doing just that with English football. Amazing just how silly it looks when you can look back on a decade of soccer and realise you don’t even give a single fuck anymore.

    Just what do they say following sports is like? Soap operas for men?

    So true

    I also stopped closely following after Messier was dealt. It was too ugly and we all knew it was a shister doing his dirty thing. The shister also gave us 5 Cups, but that didn’t mean I had to like it.

    Like so many it was the stats thing that grabbed my interest again, and eventually lead me here.

    And it revolutionized my understanding of the game and vapourized many myths I had been taught watching the glory years.

    Thanks for your part LT.

  72. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Gryba heading to flames camp on a PTO.

    What is wrong with them? Hopefully lots more.

  73. HT Joe says:

    hunter1909: I’ll stake everything I know about pro sports on Holland+Tippett turning the Oilers around instantly.

    Oh man, I want to believe, but I’ve learned a lot of lessons as a hockey fan from the Oilers…

    What do you mean by “turning the Oilers around instantly”? Do you mean the way the organization is run (meaning on-ice results will follow, but after a lag), or do you really believe the on-ice product will be dramatically improved and they make the playoffs?

    Even if Holland and Tippett are as good as we hope, I just don’t see them overcoming years of craptitude with long-reaching detrimental effects. I think they miss the playoffs easily this season, and likely miss the playoffs in 2021 as well (re-signing Nurse is going to leave the rest of the team unable to spend to improve). And that’s with an ideal Holland and Tippett doing their damndest.

  74. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar: That was a play where I thought the same thing – it looked like a coaching adjustment, knowing Sammy was going to step up and a tactic devised to get around him with numbers.

    Even if that particular play wasn’t a pre-scouted tactic, you know NHL and AHL teams will indeed scout and adjust.

    I expect some “struggles” in this regard for Sammy earlier in the year but, working with Manson and learning will help him improve – I guess that’s what we call “development in the proper league”.

    We are on the same page on this one OP. The moment I saw it I thought of what you have been saying. 😉

    And I agree this is just coaching and development. Much easier to loosen the strings than tighten them if that makes sense. That boy has compete.

  75. OriginalPouzar says:

    ScungilliSlushy: Ha!

    I don’t think Tip plays trap. He’s a central ice clogger. Teams should push play to the low percentage areas. Take away good ice he says.

    The Blues did what most teams couldn’t against Boston, the took the Bergeron Marchand triangle away.

    So simple and it meant to get to the blue paint in front it had to be all beating players one on one. And they couldn’t. A lot of jam plays at net side (would have worked against the Oilers last season) no joy.

    I remember some Blue saying they stopped chasing them and occupied the space they normally pass out to.

    If the Oilers don’t have to play some complicated D system and just do the simple and effective, given they have more dangerous forwards it could work out well. As Holland has said they just need the helpers the hard part is getting the drivers.

    One caveat is that O Reilly is a special player and the Oilers have no forward like that. If they can find the shit down forward that can score well watch out. Nuge is awesome but doesn’t have the size and range O Reilly does.

    McLeod should have RoR as his role model. Both were meh junior scorers. If McLeod can find around a better point per game in the NHL and use his blazing speed and defensive ability he could be a lynchpin. I’m don’t think he has the crust RoR has , but he could study it, he’s not going to be an offense first player.

    Great post and very interesting thought on the O’Riley comparison.

    Similar draft pedigree, similar OHL production, similar skill-set.

    I don’t know what “issues” ROR had to overcome to become who he is – we have an idea with McLeod – the “parts are better than the sum” likely do lack of drive and willigness to go to certain area and play some “hard minutes”. Don’t know if ROR was similar.

    Even O’Rilely light would be amazing.

    Lets not forget that it took 5 post draft years plus for O’Riley to become O’Riley. Although he didn’t play in the AHL, he needed time to develop and, perhaps, would have developed at a quicker pace with some AHL time.

    I don’t know about PPG – take away this one past year and ROR is more of an 0.8 PPG guy.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    Camp Roster – this should be helpful for numbers as well:

    # GOALTENDERS

    19 Mikko Koskinen
    32 Olivier Rodrigue
    50 Stuart Skinner
    41 Mike Smith
    40 Shane Starrett
    30 Dylan Wells

    # DEFENCEMEN

    74 Ethan Bear
    83 Matt Benning
    75 Evan Bouchard
    90 Logan Day
    82 Caleb Jones
    77 Oscar Klefbom
    88 Jake Kulevich
    84 William Lagesson
    6 Adam Larsson
    47 Keegan Lowe
    26 Brandon Manning
    25 Darnell Nurse
    36 Joel Persson
    4 Kris Russell
    78 Dmitri Samorukov

    # FORWARDS

    15 Josh Archibald
    49 Tyler Benson
    28 Kyle Brodziak
    12 Colby Cave
    39 Alex Chiasson RW
    43 Josh Currie
    29 Leon Draisaitl
    55 Luke Esposito
    362
    2260

    89 Sam Gagner
    45 Joseph Gambardella
    60 Markus Granlund
    91 Gaetan Haas
    42 Cameron Hebig
    92 Tomas Jurco LW
    44 Zack Kassian RW
    16 Jujhar Khaira
    62 Raphael Lavoie
    72 Kirill Maksimov
    24 Brad Malone
    65 Cooper Marody
    97 Connor McDavid
    70 Ryan McLeod
    18 James Neal
    93 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
    10 Joakim Nygard
    38 Anthony Peluso
    52 Patrick Russell
    59 Ostap Safin
    23 Riley Sheahan
    54 Beau Starrett
    68 Nolan Vesey
    56 Kailer Yamamoto

  77. Bank Shot says:

    OriginalPouzar: Great post and very interesting thought on the O’Riley comparison.

    Similar draft pedigree, similar OHL production, similar skill-set.

    I don’t know what “issues” ROR had to overcome to become who he is – we have an idea with McLeod – the “parts are better than the sum” likely do lack of drive and willigness to go to certain area and play some “hard minutes”.Don’t know if ROR was similar.

    Even O’Rilely light would be amazing.

    Lets not forget that it took 5 post draft years plus for O’Riley to become O’Riley.Although he didn’t play in the AHL, he needed time to develop and, perhaps, would have developed at a quicker pace with some AHL time.

    I don’t know about PPG – take away this one past year and ROR is more of an 0.8 PPG guy.

    The danger about using ROR as any kind of comparable is that he is the only second round pick in possibly the history of the NHL to step into the NHL immediately after being drafted.

    He stepped into a shutdown role and penalty killer role behind Stastny/Duchene straight out of the draft.

    His 20 year old season (3rd NHL season)he scored 55 points in the NHL.

    Mcleod is so far behind the line in the sand that ROR set that it isn’t fair to use ROR as a comp imo.

  78. rickithebear says:

    OriginalPouzar: In a three year aggregate:

    The trip played 344 minutes togther and GF/60 was 2.96.This actually goes up a bit without Tatar during that time (in 193 minutes).

    Issue is the GA/60 skyrockets from from 1.22/60 with Tatar to over 4 without him.

    https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20132014&thruseason=20152016&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=y&team=DET&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2014-10-08&td=2015-04-11&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8476430&p2=8475772&p3=8475193&p4=0&p5=0

    CA is a measure of forward def effectiveness.
    Allowing Dmen to press the Blue for entry prevention.

    It is 100% reflected by
    1. Coaches decision on NZ def schemes.
    2. Is the NZ scheme run Yes/No
    3. Was a rover deep preventing the ability to run NZ scheme Y/N
    4. 100% coaches decision FO ZS
    5. 100% Bench ZS with or without pocession.

    GA is a measure of dmen performance to their side and Goalie performance to each dman side.

    Dmen dictate a baseline save% to their side.
    1. By being present or not present in a 2D-1G HD def structure in the real def zone, the HD area
    ( homeplate).
    A 1D-1G structure is a real bad thing.
    2. Shot Quality: Dmen who cause the lowest % of corsi to be scorable (Open shot) make goalies job the easiest.
    Best in the game like Stevens, Languay, Russell are very important.
    It is a per Corsi rate. Dependent on Forward NZ def.
    3. Shot density: dmen who keep the highest % of shots further away from the net. Greatly reduce the e shot success density.
    4. The combination of Shot quality & density to a dmans side establishes a save% baseline for the goalie to perform around.

    Goalies
    1. Goalies have a +ve/ -ve Open HD SH save% relative to the baseline established by Dmen to thier side.

    That is what affects GA.

    Forwards can dictate the entry rates and Corsi rates by NZ Defence.

    Using GA or GF% as a measure of Forward play is brutal scientific method.

    True forward def measure:
    1. Looking at CA for with or without.
    Is a first look.
    A poor But correct look compared to GA.
    It reduces the error from 100% to slightly lower %

    2. Then looking at 2 given Zone starts.
    A. Comparing CA for FO zone start WOWY.
    The FO zone start must be the same.
    If not, you are looking at 16 diffrent of 128/256 diffrent team/ comp/ZS situation group Entry/60 & Corsi/60 averages to compare performance against.
    It greatly reduces the error %.

    Looking at top 9 fwd (93) even min LW/C/RW CA/60 range ( greater population of 45+% FO ZS) but does not differentiate for Bench change.
    We get a more accurate CA/60 range.

    18/19 CA/60 range
    93 LW (710:50) 47.21 -69.03
    93 C (994) 47.82 – 68.69
    93 RW (489) 44.08 – 68.12

    93RW 17 <45%FO ZS 44.08 – 62.06
    93C 11 <45% FO ZS 56.72 – 65.61
    93LW 14 <45% FO ZS 51.64 – 65.90

    31LW (1050) 50.06 – 62.02 CA/60
    31C (1221) 53.00 – 63.45
    31RW (1060) 52.14 – 63.45

    31 LW 0< 45%; 3 < 50.5%; 5 < 53.6%
    31C 1 < 45%; 7 < 50.5%; 9 < 53.6%
    31RW 2 < 45%; 2 < 50.5%; 6 < 53.6%

    Some interesting results.

    First question is much higher CA/60 range for top 31 with 93.5 – 100% 45+% FO ZS.
    Is it reflective of:
    – forwards being deep not running NZ trap.
    – 3-1-1-1 Structure from rovers deep not running NZ trap.
    – running PvP tough comp situation.
    – no measure of bench ZS that is 50-60% reflective of with or without pocession.

    OP:

    Using GA as a measure of Forward play is a terrible scientific method given the 100% Dman- goalie affect from CA ( point of release of the puck)
    Dmen: density, Quality of shot
    Goalie: Open shot saves.

    Their are too many Variables that have not been differentiated for to establish a true situation baseline.
    For forward CA/60.

    These are all player usage facts that are supported by video evidence and Data.

  79. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sorry but I simply cannot agree with this.

    I watched the entirety of both games and he either mistimed his move or was simply beat by the flames and their structure.

    Yes, of course, defence is a full team concept, all 5 need to be working together, however, Sammy was making individual mistakes, both mental and in effectiveness. Part of that aggressive defence of the blueline is knowing where your teammates are and identifying the situation.

    Not even Adam Larsson is able to step up with half the frequency Sammy did in junior and was trying to do in these two games.

    He’s 20 – he’ll adjust with development and experience.

    This is a very good description and assessment of the situation, OP. GODOT, im very surprised that this is the analysis you put forward – certainly below your level of hockey knowledge.

  80. Georgexs says:

    Bank Shot: The danger about using ROR as any kind of comparable is that he is the only second round pick in possibly the history of the NHL to step into the NHL immediately after being drafted.

    He stepped into a shutdown role and penalty killer role behind Stastny/Duchene straight out of the draft.

    His 20 year old season (3rd NHL season)he scored 55 points in the NHL.

    Mcleod is so far behind the line in the sand that ROR set that it isn’t fair to use ROR as a comp imo.

    That’s a nice observation about O’Reilly. Did not know that.

    There WAS one other player drafted in the 2nd round in the 2000’s who played (71 GP) and contributed (39 points) in the NHL in his draft+1. He also knocked the doors off in his 20th year.

    AND, like O’Reilly, he played in the Finals this year.

  81. OriginalPouzar says:

    BankShot: The danger about using ROR as any kind of comparable is that he is the only second round pick in possibly the history of the NHL to step into the NHL immediately after being drafted.

    What, is this true?

    Tons on non-first round picks play in the NHL in their draft plus 1 years.

    The first guy I clicked on did: Messier, drafted in the 3rd round in 1979 and played 75 games in the NHL in 1979/89.

    Not a 2nd rounder by non-1st round pedigree.

  82. OriginalPouzar says:

    Patrice Bergeron – 2nd round pick – played his draft plus 1 season in the NHL – 39 points.

    Yes, draft plus 2 was AHL but that was lockout year.

  83. rickithebear says:

    I allways fail to understand how sports scheme savvy people on this blog are often single sport minded.
    I allways reference like scheme mechanics from diffrent sports.
    It is very helpful.

    In football: the difference between Man and zone Scheme in def pass coverage.
    A DB OR LB would play over ( shadow) ( man cover) a pass canidate, Rec., TE, HB, RB.
    Or
    They would drop into assigned zones
    – to defend specific QB pass lanes.
    – to pick up and man cover critical players in their zone based on read.

    Now DL are included in
    – Man shadow of TE & RB
    – zone drop back of QB passing lanes.

    That is what differentiates man vs NZ def in hockey, that I talk of.
    One is man cover/shadow of opps in their DZ and edge of NZ.

    NZ trap is zonal coverage of
    – traditional opp pass lanes
    Or
    – Man coverage in NZ.
    As Schilly says clog the middle.

    This is all basic sports mechanics.
    Which any good multi sports analyst would know.

    I know, like successful def schemes are successful across different sports.

    That is why my theory (Belichek & me) looking for top baseline ( mistake free) players is a function of winning NFL player recruitment.
    It is also reflected in my ( championship/ cup core) roster theory.

    (False eye affect) is looking at minimal % top and brutal play to define players in multiple sports.
    Does not equate to true baseline success as a team.

    It is clearly not self evident on this blog.
    Which I repeated fail to remember.

    But part of this site is learning sports play truths.

  84. rickithebear says:

    Hockey Knowledge:

    You need to understand what creates championship success.

    Before you can understand what player and scheme mechanisms are championship effective.
    IE. Hockey Knowledge

    Their is a lot of traditional misknowledge that exists!
    It is often counter to championship GA and GF play.

  85. Georgexs says:

    My history of the NHL only goes back to 1979 (Oilers!).

    Of all the forwards drafted since 1979, only 3 2nd round or later picks scored more points than Bergeron as teenagers in the NHL in their draft+1 year. All in their 19th year, all in the 80’s.

    If you relax the teenager restriction, another Oiler is at the top of the list for points scored by a non first round pick in their draft+1 year. He scored 75 points in 75 games in his 20th year.

    Since 2000, I have just 7 non 1st round forwards playing in the NHL in their 18th or 19th year. We’ve already caught Bergeron and O’Reilly. Daniel Sprong is the class of the rest of the group, 18 games, and 2 points in his 18th year in 15-16.

    O’Reilly and Bergeron walked a much, much less traveled path.

  86. OriginalPouzar says:

    rickithebear:
    Using GA as a measure of Forward play is a terrible scientific method given the 100% Dman- goalie affect from CA ( point of release of the puck)
    Dmen: density, Quality of shot
    Goalie: Open shot saves.

    You asked for ESG and I provided you ESG – well, 5 on 5 G.

  87. rickithebear says:

    Ken Holland presser:
    RE Bouchard.
    “ he is not fighting for 7 spots he is fighting for 6 spots.”
    You are not in starting lineup you are in the AHL.

    Suspect that mantra is for forwards as well.
    Not starting down to the A.

    Tippett.
    Bottom 6 PK forwards.

  88. SkatinginSand says:

    godot10: It is not the fault of the defensemen for standing up at the blueline.If something bad happens, it is the fault of others.He D partner for leaving the centre open, or forwards, for not providing sufficient back pressure, and getting caught up ice.Defending the blue line is the right thing the vast majority of the time.Forwards should be skating harder backwards towards their own zone than forwards into the attacking zone.

    Some people have been watching Russell play hockey badly too much.

    Holding the line is NOT the correct play when you are in an outnumbered situation. Recognizing this is a vital skill.

  89. rickithebear says:

    OriginalPouzar: You asked for ESG and I provided you ESG – well, 5 on 5 G.

    When talking ESG measure of forwards that is entry, corsi, HDarea penetration, Open shot targeting.
    IE. Even Goals For.

    I am now aware that you had no clue GA is 100% Dmen & Goalie performance per corsi.
    And other than Entry and Corsi per 60 being forward dependent.
    the scoreability of any puck is about D & goalie reduction performance relative to the penetration/open targeting of the player directing the Corsi.

    Get rid of your Misknowledge!
    I was asking for evgf which any Knowledgeable hockey analyst knows is a forward ability to penetrate and target high success open net space while facing difrent quality of HD SH, Open Sh Dmen & Open HD save% goalies.

    You are a smart guy.
    You are a product of Hockey misknowledge taught to you thru the years.

  90. rickithebear says:

    SkatinginSand: Holding the line is NOT the correct play when you are in an outnumbered situation. Recognizing this is a vital skill.

    Bang on!

    Any Knowledgable hockey fan uses this mantra.

    – available Forward colapse to defend the NZ is event 1 with 2 D.
    Trying to reduce entry and CA rates.

    – Dmen or Dman with forward colapse to provide 2D-1G or 1F – 1D -1G def of true DZ ( HD area) ( homeplate) is event 2. Rather than a terrible 1D – 1G def of true DZ area..
    Trying to reduce Open SH% & HD shot density which establish save% baseline for goalies.

  91. geowal says:

    OriginalPouzar: I can’t disagree with this, however, a player can impact the lineup without “moving the needle” individually, per se.
    For example, a guy like Benson being able to be serviceable as a 2LW could do each of the following:

    All those things you list I would call moving the needle. My point is I don’t think that will happen (Benson LW this season). I don’t see any of the players last night playing 40 games this season. Happy to be proved wrong.

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    I am generally not aware of things that aren’t true.

    Forward’s have zero impact on GA is not reality.

    Who his a “hockey analyst”? I sure am not. Didn’t realize it was a pre-req for participation in the community.

  93. Glovjuice says:

    Is there anybody out there? (OP is)

    Just nod if you can hear me.

    Welcome Ken, welcome to the Machine.

  94. Bank Shot says:

    OriginalPouzar: What, is this true?

    Tons on non-first round picks play in the NHL in their draft plus 1 years.

    The first guy I clicked on did:Messier, drafted in the 3rd round in 1979 and played 75 games in the NHL in 1979/89.

    Not a 2nd rounder by non-1st round pedigree.

    My bad, I was wrong. That’s why I put possibly the only second rounder to do so. haha. I couldn’t recall seeing anyone else beside O’Reilly from memory.

    Anyway as GeorgeXS pointed out, Bergeron and O’Reilly are the only non-first round picks since 2000 to play 20+ games in the NHL Draft+1.

    It’s a very rare path, and the players who do so are clearly special.

    At this point I believe a guy like Tyler Pitlick is a more apt comparison for McLeod. I would hope that McLeod suffers fewer injuries and can navigate a better path to the NHL.

  95. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I am generally not aware of things that aren’t true.

    Forward’s have zero impact on GA is not reality.

    Who his a “hockey analyst”?I sure am not. Didn’t realize it was a pre-req for participation in the community.

    It is NOT a prerequisite for participation in the community. Making me spell prerequisite is more likely to get you punted. 🙂

  96. Glovjuice says:

    Is it just me or has LT been coming at OP a fair bit the last week or so ? Seems like some subtle discipline occurring.

  97. godot10 says:

    SkatinginSand: Holding the line is NOT the correct play when you are in an outnumbered situation. Recognizing this is a vital skill.

    The forwards were not backchecking hard enough. Samourukov stopped his man. The man who got past him was the guy a forward should have had, but the forward was lazy getting back.

    Woodcroft told the players to play their game. Show him and the brain trust in the press box what you got. Not to compensate for the mistakes of other players and not play the way that got you here.

    I want a D who is not going to surrender the blue line. I will find forwards to back check and back pressure.

    The failure on the goal was not Samourukov’s.

  98. Lowetide says:

    Glovjuice:
    Is it just me or has LT been coming at OP a fair bit the last week or so ? Seems like some subtle discipline occurring.

    Just you. There’s no one on my shit list at this time.

  99. defmn says:

    Lowetide: Just you. There’s no one on my shit list at this time.

    So you are saying the position is still open? 😉

  100. Side says:

    Lowetide: Just you. There’s no one on my shit list at this time.

    Do you at least have anyone on your piss list?

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    Training camp starts today. Just reporting and physicals and such but, HELL YA! Let’s get this started.

    As per the GM, there will be some initial cuts prior to the end of the weekend.

  102. Cassandra says:

    rickithebear:

    I am now aware that you had no clue GA is 100% Dmen & Goalie performance per corsi.

    Get rid of your Misknowledge!

    Ricki bringing the delusional and the deranged. He’s our hometown gnostic preacher. Only he knows and the rest of us should wake up.

    But the rest of it is the real treat. We should make a list of his proven axioms.

    I will summarize.

    1) Assists don’t matter
    2) Forwards don’t make a difference on defense (they don’t prevent goals)
    3) Defense don’t make a difference on offense (they don’t score goals)
    4) The baseline expectations for a LW are lower than a center because centers are in the middle of the ice (this one is my personal favourite)

    This is so out of date for how hockey is actually played there aren’t words to describe it. The names of positions have never mattered less in hockey than they do right now, while Ricki thinks they are, or should be, static stick figures locked in a single place on the ice.

    His views aren’t even wrong. They are utterly disconnected from reality.

  103. Dr. Taboggan says:

    Cassandra,

    This will surely provoke some post about how ricki created hockey analytics in the 1700s before hockey was invented and you are just some dum dum SJW for questioning his brilliant theories.

    Sing it with me: SIGN FISTRIC SIGN FISTRIC SIGN FISTRIC!

  104. Lowetide says:

    Generally speaking, we’ve reached a point where the chiding is harmless and the views expressed are done well.

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: It is NOT a prerequisite for participation in the community. Making me spell prerequisite is more likely to get you punted.

    I have essentially zero qualifications, this I am well aware of.

  106. OriginalPouzar says:

    Glovjuice:
    Is it just me or has LT been coming at OP a fair bit the last week or so ? Seems like some subtle discipline occurring.

    Should Puljujarvi be on the 50 man contract list?

  107. russ99 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    He’s a qualified unsigned RFA, so no.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot: The forwards were not backchecking hard enough.Samourukov stopped his man.The man who got past him was the guy a forward should have had, but the forward was lazy getting back.

    Woodcroft told the players to play their game.Show him and the brain trust in the press box what you got.Not to compensate for the mistakes of other players and not play the way that got you here.

    I want a D who is not going to surrender the blue line.I will find forwards to back check and back pressure.

    The failure on the goal was not Samourukov’s.

    Sure, the forward may not have been backchecking hard enough – mistake on the forward.

    At the same time, Samorukov not recognizing this and stepping up – mistake on Samorukov’s part.

    If Samorukov’s game includes not being aware of what his 4 icemates are doing and simply going about “his game”, well, then “his game” is not very good and will never be NHL ready.

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    russ:
    OriginalPouzar,

    He’s a qualified unsigned RFA, so no.

    Inside joke russ – comment was said in jest….

  110. russ99 says:

    The whole “standing up at the line” argument is kind of silly.

    Almost all NHL teams implement a trapping system to make controlled zone entry more difficult. Tippett will be more of a proponent of this than many of our recent coaches.

    When this trapping occurs, players and the puck are moving, so there’s a read and react aspect.

    And despite this, no matter what we do, the opposition still gains the zone, and still shoots 25-40 shots a night.

    I’m way more interested in defensive play after the opponent gains the zone rather than before they gain the zone.

    IMO the hardline on this by the shot metrics community is due to:

    This idea being used to further the opinion and preference that somehow more traffic at our blue line results in more chances on the rush, which is just one way to score goals.

    Same goes for that Duane Sutter quote idea that defense doesn’t matter, only getting the puck back matters.

    Something happens between opposition entry and when we get the puck back and it plays a pretty large factor in whether we win the game or not, and it relies on all 5 skaters and the goalie.

  111. Pouzar says:

    Glovjuice:
    Is it just me or has LT been coming at OP a fair bit the last week or so ? Seems like some subtle discipline occurring.

    It’s gotta Specter/Ross kinda vibe for sure.

  112. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sure, the forward may not have been backchecking hard enough – mistake on the forward.

    At the same time, Samorukov not recognizing this and stepping up – mistake on Samorukov’s part.

    If Samorukov’s game includes not being aware of what his 4 icemates are doing and simply going about “his game”, well, then “his game” is not very good and will never be NHL ready.

    The coach told the players to show him and the braintrust what got them here. It is easier for a coach to dial back aggressive correct tactics than to dial up and fix passive incorrect ones.

    Samourukov was doing the right thing. Some of the other four guys on the ice were NOT.

    This is why other players usually got blamed for stuff, when the primary mistake was Russell surrendering the blueline without a fight.

    The point of rookie camp is to identify the players who are capable to doing the right thing when the systems proper are introduced later in camp.

    If a D is already surrendering the blue line in rookie camp, well, that D has a long long ways to go.

  113. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar: I am generally not aware of things that aren’t true.

    Possibly the most philosophically deep statement ever made here.

  114. defmn says:

    godot10: The coach told the playersto show him and the braintrust what got them here.It is easier for a coach to dial back aggressive correct tactics than to dial up and fix passive incorrect ones.

    Samourukov was doing the right thing.Some of the other four guys on the ice were NOT.

    This is why other players usually got blamed for stuff, when the primary mistake was Russell surrendering the blueline without a fight.

    The point of rookie camp is to identify the players who are capable to doing the right thing when the systems proper are introduced later in camp.

    If a D is already surrendering the blue line in rookie camp, well, that D has a long long ways to go.

    This whole discussion is confusing me. You do know that the play under discussion was at the Flame’s blue line as they were attempting to break out – not defending his own blue line as they were trying to gain entry?

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot: The coach told the playersto show him and the braintrust what got them here.It is easier for a coach to dial back aggressive correct tactics than to dial up and fix passive incorrect ones.

    Samourukov was doing the right thing.Some of the other four guys on the ice were NOT.

    I don’t agree – not identifying what teamates are doing on the ice and making a play leading to a HD scoring change – that is not the right play.

    Part of “showing the coach what got them there” is making the right play at the right time.

    Sammy made a bunch of poor decisions.

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