30 for 23

Things got interesting late last week, as the Oilers were playing hockey most every night while spending days booking passage for the team’s close to NHL-ready players. Tyler Benson, Cooper Marody, Caleb Jones, they’re back in the USA with the Condors.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Brandon Manning, Patrick Russell and someone named Anton Burdasov are still pushing for NHL jobs. Exactly as we all predicted.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, we are celebrating our 2-year anniversary this week. To mark the occasion, you can get 40% off subscriptions here.

  • New Lowetide: Three players who helped their Oilers hopes and three who didn’t do enough to separate in Edmonton’s fourth preseason game
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Dreadful showing means several Oilers players are on the chopping block with cuts looming
  • Jonathan Willis: How quickly must the Oilers’ top AHL prospects claim NHL jobs before they become suspect?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: McDavid and more: Five thoughts through the first week of Oilers camp
  • Lowetide: Why Kailer Yamamoto’s delayed training camp may benefit his Oilers career
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Brandon Manning on how his contract is hurting him, proving his worth at camp and being a mentor
  • Jonathan Willis: Four players who helped, three who hurt their Oilers hopes in Edmonton’s second preseason game
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: How an offseason adding more pop in his stick and skates has James Neal primed for first Oilers season
  • Lowetide: A big night for Oilers defencemen Joel Persson, William Lagesson and Evan Bouchard
  • Lowetide: Handicapping Oilers prospect progress: The development of Ethan Bear, Caleb Jones and William Lagesson
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Eight key questions for the Oilers to solve at training camp
  • Jonathan Willis: Predicting the winners of the Oilers’ top-six and top-nine forward jobs out of camp
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: In, out or on the bubble: Breaking down positional battles at Oilers camp
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Alex Chiasson prepares to return to scoring form for Edmonton Oilers
  • Lowetide: Can Mikko Koskinen and Mike Smith stop enough pucks for the Oilers?
  • Lowetide: Shutdown success by Darnell Nurse and Adam Larsson is a key for the Oilers in 2019-20.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Even if he’s unsure about his return, Oilers’ Connor McDavid looks and sounds like his old self
  • Lowetide: RE 19-20: How can the Oilers’ bottom six close the gap in goal differential?
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers’ defensive hopes will rest on the new shutdown pair of Darnell Nurse and Adam Larsson
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: With Evan Bouchard as the headliner, here are the players to watch at Oilers rookie camp
  • Lowetide: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and the configuration of the Oilers second line
  • Lowetide: Connor McDavid’s 2019-20: Pushing for 50 goals while Dave Tippett loads up the Oilers’ top line
  • Lowetide: Estimating reasonable expectations for the 2019-20 Edmonton Oilers: A difficult journey
  • Jonathan Willis: How much money will Darnell Nurse make on his next NHL contract?
  • Corey Pronman: Oilers No. 9 farm system.
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

CERTAIN OILERS [18]

I have listed the forwards five-on-five points per 60 and defensemen Corsi for five-on-five through pre season, along with five-on-five save percentage for goalies.

I don’t see anyone from this list getting sent down, but a trade before the season is possible (I’ll suggest Matt Benning and Jujhar Khaira as possibles).

I suspect it’s possible (even likely) one or more of these names begin the season on IR. Mike Smith hasn’t played a game yet, he will need to have an ideal week in order to make the roster. We might see a waiver pickup (Eric Comrie, Tristan Jarry) if Smith isn’t ready.

UNCERTAIN OILERS [10]

At this point, the five available jobs (C, LW, RW, 2 D) likely go to men on this list. I honestly don’t think anyone knows who the team will go with on defense for the final two spots, I’m even less clear after Caleb Jones got sent down. A guess on the five? Not from me, not yet. I think we might see a trade.

DISTANT BELLS [4]

Andre Burdasov might be the player Alexei Mikhnov was supposed to be, the 15-year delay just increases the anticipation. All kidding aside, he’s not even a distant bell, we’ve seen him in use only slightly more often than the tsar bell.

Brandon Manning is the only other distant bell with a chance to make the team, and at that he would be a No. 7 option. Shane Starrett hangs around due to Mike Smith’s health issues but I think the Oilers would claim Jarry or Comrie if the ailment continues.

RIESEN TO BELIEVE VOL 3

I’ll have this for you tomorrow, lots of movement obviously from the last one. I think we’ll see a quick resolution to the big questions next week and my guess is opening night will look like this:

Leon Draisaitl—Connor McDavid—Zack Kassian

Joakim Nygard—RNH—James Neal

Jujhar Khaira—Riley Sheahan—Josh Archibald

Sam Gagner—Colby Cave—Alex Chiasson

Tomas Jurco, Markus Granlund

Darnell Nurse—Adam Larsson

Oscar Klefbom—Joel Persson

Kris Russell—Matt Benning

William Lagesson

Mikko Koskinen (Mike Smith)

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204 Responses to "30 for 23"

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  1. dustrock says:

    That forward lineup is certainly something.

  2. tarvbc says:

    Dear LT,
    Let me thank you for another wonderful summer of meaningful readings for us die hards. I’ve enjoyed every article and you make these beautiful summer months enjoyable even without hockey.

    As for your article I’d really like to see Gagner get a chance on Leon’s and McDesiels wing. I think he is a smart enough offensive player to play with those two juggernauts.
    My opening night

    Drai-McD-Gags
    Jurco-Nuge-Neal
    Nygard-Sheehan-Chai
    Archibald-Cave-Kass
    JJ-Grandlund

    Nurse-Larsson
    Klefbom-Persson
    Russell-Benning
    Manning

    If there is a trade with JJ or one of the young blue, what position and who would be the targets ??

  3. McNuge93 says:

    RW sure looks bleak. If Burdasov or Jurco can move up, maybe we can move Neal over to RW and hope he gets his 20 goals..

  4. Jethro Tull says:

    I don’t think Burdy is a distant bell. You don’t jump through those hoops for distant bells.

    What do people think? Are we Tip’s ‘yotes with just the world’s best player added?

    There’s a lot of guys that will have to stick to a rigid game or they’re going to get caved.

  5. Mr DeBakey says:

    Glenn Anderson
    .44 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .41 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Clutch or Clutchiness?
    Its too close to call.

  6. BlueNoteNorth says:

    Setting aside the Burdasov wild card, your opening night lineup looks to be a good projection. It irks me though that Granlund gets a free pass.

  7. OriginalPouzar says:

    Will be very intersted to see what the post-cut lines looks like in practice today.

    How will Burdasov and Nygard be split in the top 6 and will Jurco get a look there?

    Where does Granlund fit in in the bottom six and is Haas on the outside looking in with Cave outplaying him?

    Where do Bear and Lagesson line up – assuming both are ahead of Bouchard for now and still behind Persson and Benning.

    Man, Tuesday is going to be a HUGE game for jobs!

  8. hunter1909 says:

    Hunter1909’s Official 2019-20 Death March™

    Entries welcome between now and the first puck drop of the 2019-20 season(October 2)

    Here’s how you play: Guess how many points the Oilers get in the regular season.

    That’s it!

    Tie break: How many regular season goals does JP score for his new Finnish team?

  9. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think we are getting close to putting Nygard in the “Certain Oilers” group.

    To be honest, I wonder if Granlund should be moved to the second group – through two games, he’s shown very little at 5 on 5 and the only thing keeping him in the top group is his PK (and, I guess, some “veteran leash” and the fact he was a new signing). I’m not sure his PK acumen is really enough to keep him there.

    I doubt he gets cut but I’m not 100% certain he doesn’t.

  10. mit167 says:

    Nope… tried for 10 Minutes to make line ups and just keep writing and then deleting. For some reason I am having a hard time with Kassian on the 1RW. I keep pushing Gags or Neal up there. Not sure Russell is ready but he’s played better than Archibald Granlund imo. I think Haas can go to Bakersfield Will Burdasov make it… Will Nygard. Still too many questions

  11. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think Mike Smith practiced fully the other day, is on the trip, and is slated to start twice this coming week (Mikko with one more).

    I suspect he’s good to go for opening night – Mikko will be playing October 2 so Smith has a bit of “extra time” to get ready before his first start a few games in.

    Kris Russell, I believe, also practiced – not sure if he was a “full participant”. They may “IR” him in order to delay some “hard decisions”, maybe, probably not, maybe.

  12. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think you may have nailed the opening night roster LT.

    How wonderful is it to see Williie Lagesson on the roster – not in the lineup but on the roster. Small chance of a Russell IR or a Russell at #7 due to “catching up” and Willie in the lineup.

    Granlund’s lineup spot has already been taken and his roster spot may be up for grabs – he needs to show something this week at 5 on 5.

  13. jtblack says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Glenn Anderson
    .44 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .41 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Clutch or Clutchiness?
    Its too close to call.

    Seemed to be Clutch.

    I think any player that can produce above, at or near their Reg Season #’s is excellent. Competition in the Playoffs is much better than the Reg Season.

  14. defmn says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Glenn Anderson
    .44 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .41 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Clutch or Clutchiness?
    Its too close to call.

    As I pointed out in yesterday’s thread comparing scoring rates when playing the top teams in the league when they are playing at their hardest is hardly the same as playing against bottom feeders during an 82 game regular season. Hockey in January does not look like hockey in April.

  15. jtblack says:

    I still dont see how that bottom 6 will score.

    Hopefully they give up next to Nothing.

    PK options look better.

    NHL Rookie @ 2 RHD.

    Hmmmmm …. Just not seeing a playoff team.

  16. Mr DeBakey says:

    Glenn Anderson Oiler Years 1980-91
    .50 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .49 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    16 of 21 teams made the play-offs in those distant times.

  17. defmn says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Glenn Anderson Oiler Years 1980-91
    .50 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .49 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    16 of 21 teams made the play-offs in those distant times.

    And then 8 and then 4 and then 2.

  18. razor says:

    LT your lines look spot on from here. I’d say that the only wild card is 2LW as that could be Jurco, Nygard, or Burdasov. I think the next few games will be used to decide who wins that spot.

  19. Mr DeBakey says:

    defmn: is hardly the same as playing against bottom feeders during an 82 game regular season

    When 76% of the teams make the play-offs, there are plenty of bottom feeders in the play-offs.
    Including the entire Norris [Central] Division – in 84-85 none of those teams won 40 games [Chicago won 38, Minnesota won 25 and made the play-offs].

  20. yeraslob says:

    Sure looks like a slow fourth line…

  21. defmn says:

    Mr DeBakey: When 76% of the teams make the play-offs, there are plenty of bottom feeders in the play-offs.
    Including the entire Norris [Central] Division – in 84-85 none of those teams won 40 games [Chicago won 38, Minnesota won 25 and made the play-offs].

    Again. And then there are 38% and then 19% and 9.5%. And I repeat myself again by pointing out that the intensity of the games in April look to me to be on a different level than the games in February. Or January. Or October.

    Playoff hockey is different than regular season hockey so a straight comparison of scoring rates – which is already a somewhat arbitrary measure of what “clutch” might mean- is not definitive imo.

  22. Hairbag says:

    hunter1909,

    Oilers 93
    Pool 21

  23. Pescador says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Glenn Anderson
    .44 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .41 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Clutch or Clutchiness?
    Its too close to call.

    If Glenn Anderson owned a mechanic shop,
    it would definitely be called Dr.Clutch

  24. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: (and, I guess, some “veteran leash” and the fact he was a new signing).

    It’s these types of signings that have doomed the Oilers since forever. Veteran tenured guys way past their best before dates.

  25. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    razor:
    LT your lines look spot on from here. I’d say that the only wild card is 2LW as that could be Jurco, Nygard, orBurdasov. I think the next few games will be used to decide who wins that spot.

    Yes, I agree – 2LW is a “?”, but Burd man needs to show more and would require a contract, so that is a complicating factor…
    If management are true to their words, I would suspect Manning may be 7D and Lagg (still a “youngster”) going to Bake for playing time, rather than pine time, but if Rusty isn’t ready, Lagg plays with Benning to start the season…

  26. Beat It Square says:

    @Pescador – If Randy Gregg owned a clinic it would be called Dr. Doctor.

  27. Bag of Pucks says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Glenn Anderson
    .44 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .41 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Clutch or Clutchiness?
    Its too close to call.

    But this has always been the issue with analytics trying to take a view on this. The sample sizes are truly singular and hugely contextual to the circumstances of a given game or shift. It can’t be appraised through larger slice quantitative analysis only.

    The struggle imo has always been that hockey analytics has struggled to find a balance between quantitative AND qualitative data crunching. Big data analyses in other industries is not ignoring this major area and in fact, many of the more cutting edge developments in analytics are occurring on the qualitative side as scientists are developing better models and tools to quantify behavioural insights.

    Glenn Anderson is tied for 3rd overall in playoff overtime goals. That’s where the ‘clutch’ mantle is earned and that’s the type of microscopic sample size that has to be embraced for this type of evaluation.

  28. Jethro Tull says:

    I always took “clutch” to mean a play or player scoring or succeeding through uncommon skill at a pivotal point of the game or play.

    If you google “clutch hockey players”, a certain Geordan Oberle’s name pops up quite a bit….

    I would suggest that a player described as clutch has more to do with psychological narrative (seen him good) than actual stats would predict.

  29. hags9k says:

    I wonder if Burdasov can check? Or is he 2LW or bust?

  30. Jethro Tull says:

    Beat It Square:
    @Pescador – If Randy Gregg owned a clinic it would be called Dr. Doctor.

    Can’t you see I’m burning, burning.

    I’ve a bad case of loving you.

    *I also believe Iron Maiden had a song called”Doctor, Doctor” but it’s one of their more obscure ones.

  31. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I was admittedly a little emotional after the Marody cut (felt bad for him, thought he deserved to stay up for at least one more game). Now that I have calmed my tits (and combed the hair on them), I am okay again. Well sort of….

    As suspected the <23 yr olds are going to have to really pop to stick around and the collection of "veterans and older hopefuls" are there to block them and buy some more time for their development in the AHL. It will be interesting to see the lines in Bakersfield. Presumably Benson-Marody pair again…and if they continue their trajectory from last year they should be very strong candidates for 3rd line pair to start next year. Of course, if the Oilers are trading for draft picks in early 2020, they could come up then….They would do well with a speedy forechecking shoot first ask questions later type…

  32. OriginalPouzar says:

    Rikki has posted the egregious GA/60 number for Larsson/Nurse for last year and, yes, it is bad – over 4.0 – of course, as we know, Larsson simply had a bad year last year – across the board, no matter who he played with. I think it was combo of mental (dealing with his dad’s death and then losing confidence in his game) and physical).

    It was an outlier given his play in the league over the last number of years and, given he’s only 25/26, really just hitting his prime for this type of d-man, I’m not concerned about his physical ability to bounce back. Mentally, we know he’s raring to go this year and looking to prove last season was the outlier and help the team.

    I wanted to point out the GA/60 in 2017/18 for the Nurse/Larsson combo – 1.83GA/60 in over 800 minutes at 5 on 5 – top pairing minutes.

    Not good last year, however, this pairing has a history of being very good together.

    If we get the 2017/18 Larsson and Klefbom stays health, given how good he looks, he’ll be able to shine the player at 2RD – things could work.

  33. Pescador says:

    Beat It Square:
    @Pescador – If Randy Gregg owned a clinic it would be called Dr. Doctor.

    I would go to that doctor’s office,
    Maybe they could help me with this jock itch

  34. godot10 says:

    You forgot to swap Lagesson and Kris Russell.

  35. Bag of Pucks says:

    With the players sent down to the Bake, it appears Holland is definitely bringing the same slow play discipline to player development that he exercised in Detroit. That is very very encouraging.

    Nygard, Jurco, Haas, Archibald. These are not sexy adds. But they are all experienced players with GPs earned in pro leagues. I suspect they were brought in specifically with the goal of blocking players like Benson & Yamamoto & Marody. With Holland, you don’t get the callup when you’re projected to or trending towards ready. You get the call when you’ve proven your readiness with the accompanying GPs as a minor or Euro pro. It’s an apprenticeship approach to player development and I love it!

  36. Bling says:

    I have Burdasov making the team. I was watching some highlights and the adjectives for his shot — “heavy”, “quick release” — don’t do it justice. Do yourself a favour and watch.

    He can score with a flick of the wrist from 25 feet out. There is one particular highlight where he lets it fly on an odd man rush from outside the top of the circle. The puck goes top shelf and bounces back to the face-off dot. The goalie didn’t even move. It’s an elite shot, and that’s for sure.

    Guys like Dadonov had their scoring translate practically 1:1 between the KHL and NHL.

    With that shot, I can see Burdasov as a 15-20 goal guy.

  37. Yeti says:

    Clutch is a fans’ category. To try and develop analytics to specify and measure it is like calculating the angles in a beautiful piece of art. It can be done, and doing so will tell you something… but it misses the point. Clutch is about passion, the romance of the sport, and the kind of stuff that makes it fun. It’s about individual moments that write themselves into the collective memory. It’s real because we want it to be real, because it adds to our enjoyment of the team as the years roll by. Clutch is the shared Kodachrome moments that we keep locked away in your brain’s time capsule, yet we can pull out at the bar or the family gathering and say “remember when…” and every last person will exclaim in response: “Clutch!”.

  38. Pescador says:

    jtblack:
    I still dont see how that bottom 6 will score.

    Hopefully they give up next to Nothing.

    PK options look better.

    NHL Rookie @ 2 RHD.

    Hmmmmm …. Just not seeing a playoff team.

    Well perhaps this will sway you into believing that the Oilers are a playoff team:
    Koskiinen: .904 sv % 18/19
    Smith: .896 sv % 18/19
    Hmmm indeed

  39. godot10 says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Glenn Anderson Oiler Years 1980-91
    .50 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .49 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    16 of 21 teams made the play-offs in those distant times.

    The Oilers had to beat Calgary to get out of the division.

    Most players points per game goes down in the playoffs. My position on clutch is that ir really can only be seen in hindsight. It is extremely difficult to recognize it at the time. Recognizing players who can perform under pressure is part of the art of coaching.

  40. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: I wanted to point out the GA/60 in 2017/18 for the Nurse/Larsson combo – 1.83GA/60 in over 800 minutes at 5 on 5 – top pairing minutes.

    OP for whatever reason the haters have erased that time in history from their brains. Could never figure out why.

  41. godot10 says:

    Mr DeBakey: When 76% of the teams make the play-offs, there are plenty of bottom feeders in the play-offs.
    Including the entire Norris [Central] Division – in 84-85 none of those teams won 40 games [Chicago won 38, Minnesota won 25 and made the play-offs].

    The Oilers only played the best team from the Norris. None of the bottom feeders.

  42. Reja says:

    defmn: Again. And then there are 38% and then 19% and 9.5%. And I repeat myself again by pointing out that the intensity of the games in April look to me to be on a different level than the games in February. Or January. Or October.

    Playoff hockey is different than regular season hockey so a straight comparison of scoring rates – which is already a somewhat arbitrary measure of what “clutch” might mean- is not definitive imo.

    I don’t know how anyone can compare scrimmage hockey at practice to preseason to regular season to playoff hockey. Ask any ex NHLer there is no comparison.

  43. Beat It Square says:

    Love it! How about this on @Jethro Tull :

    https://youtu.be/c8TJnoa2WTg

  44. dessert1111 says:

    Holding out hopes for unicorns….

    Neal-CMD-Kassian
    Nygard-Draisalt-Chiasson
    Jurco-RNH-Gagner
    Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
    Granlund, Cave

  45. Bag of Pucks says:

    Yeti:
    Clutch is a fans’ category. To try and develop analytics to specify and measure it is like calculating the angles in a beautiful piece of art. It can be done, and doing so will tell you something… but it misses the point. Clutch is about passion, the romance of the sport, and the kind of stuff that makes it fun. It’s about individual moments that write themselves into the collective memory. It’s real because we want it to be real, because it adds to our enjoyment of the team as the years roll by. Clutch is the shared Kodachrome moments that we keep locked away in your brain’s time capsule, yet we can pull out at the bar or the family gathering and say “remember when…” and every last person will exclaim in response: “Clutch!”.

    But it’s also an athlete descriptor. The players themselves recognize that there’s an elite subset of their peers who don’t just perform under pressure, they actually excel in those crucible moments.

    It is almost exclusively psychological. Early in his career, was Tiger Woods clutch or simply very good? I think it was both and once he lost that dominant psychological edge, he remained a very good player but no longer one who always excels in those pressure moments.

  46. Yeti says:

    Bag of Pucks: But it’s also an athlete descriptor. The players themselves recognize that there’s an elite subset of their peers who don’t just perform under pressure, they actually excel in those crucible moments.

    Yes, but it’s intangible and ephemeral. Someone who elevates their game under pressure, who had the skill to capitalize, and perhaps also a bit of fortune to be in the right place at just the right moments? I don’t need a statistic to tell me that Pisani was (or was not) ‘clutch’ in the 2006 playoff run. We lived it. For a brief, fleeting moment, it all came together. Life is cruel, and what one moment in time gives, another will take away. But for that period of time he was clutch for us, and that’s what counts.

  47. RumBurgundy says:

    My Dad had a friend whose nickname was “Clutch”. We asked him,
    “It is because he came up big in big moments in sports?”
    “No”
    “Was he into cars?”
    “No”
    “Then why?”
    “He was handsy with the ladies.”

  48. Professor Q says:

    RumBurgundy:
    My Dad had a friend whose nickname was “Clutch”. We asked him,
    “It is because he came up big in big moments in sports?”
    “No”
    “Was he into cars?”
    “No”
    “Then why?”
    “He was handsy with the ladies.”

    I bet he pursed his lips every time this was mentioned in his presence.

  49. OriginalPouzar says:

    I encourage everyone to take a read through a post late in yesterday’s thread by Armchair with some very good research on Benning’s numbers in the top 4 over the years.

    Benning seems to be one on the controversial players. Some think he shouldn’t even be in the lineup, some think he’s a solid 3RD but nothing more and some think he’s got some ability up the lineup.

    The numbers are fairly evident that the team does well when he’s in the top 4 – both possession, GF% and xGF%.

    I admit that, from watching, the numbers seem to be greater than the eye test but the sample size is large and the numbers too good to ignore.

    What is it about Benning’s game that creates a lower analysis of the “eye test” – sure, he makes mistakes and sometimes they are glaring – so do Klefbom and Nurse and Larson. He doesn’t seem to be “a great” transitioner of the puck but the disk does go the right way when he’s out there – no matter where he is playing.

    I watched the two games he’s played this exhibition and, yup, he was “not good” and then “awful” – its also the first week of exhibition and he’s “a veteran”.

    Benning should be a solid part of this D-core and if he’s 3RD or even 7D for certain games, that likely means the defensive group is doing very well.

  50. godot10 says:

    Bag of Pucks: But it’s also an athlete descriptor. The players themselves recognize that there’s an elite subset of their peers who don’t just perform under pressure, they actually excel in those crucible moments.

    It is almost exclusively psychological. Early in his career, was Tiger Woods clutch or simply very good? I think it was both and once he lost that dominant psychological edge, he remained a very good player but no longer one who always excels in those pressure moments.

    Tiger was generational but not clutch. He had essentially no come from behind wins on Sunday until after his latest return from injury. If he was not already leading on Sunday, he essentially never won.

  51. Johnny Larue says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Kurt Leavins at the COH has Bear on the 3rd pairing with Russell and Benning as the 7th defenceman

  52. silasbengtsson says:

    While I doubt it comes to fruition, this would be my ideal now that Benson and Marody have been sent down.

    Draisaitl- McD- Kassian (they’ll outscore; by how much and will it be enough?)
    Nygard- Nuge- Neal (speed and defensive support for Nuge to balance Neal’s weaknesses)
    JJ- Sheahan- Archibald (while they haven’t showed great, a solid bottom-6 line)
    Granny- Cave- Chiasson (would prefer Russell over Granny, but veteran benefits)
    Russell, Jurco (Haas back to Switzerland, both are pushing as is and will continue)

    Nurse- Larsson (hope for 2017-18 magic; settle for something close)
    Klefbom- Benning (their numbers together are hard to ignore)
    Lagesson- Bear (Willy Legs has earned a spot to me; Bear over Persson)
    Russell (I just prefer seeing new blood in the lineup)

    Koskinen/Smith

  53. BONE207 says:

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Brandon Manning, Patrick Russell and someone named Anton Burdasov are still pushing for NHL jobs. Exactly as we all predicted

    Gord bless you LT…
    Your sarcasm/60 makes you the clutchiest Blogger/Radio Guy with at least 300 minutes of data in each field of endeavor.

    Now if these men actually help in winning hockey games that would be miraculous. What if we just found out that our farm system players won’t help now or very much in the future? Do we need to tank for 2 or more CONNOR years.

    This is my greatest fear. Well that & a cold winter.

  54. jtblack says:

    Pescador: Well perhaps this will sway you into believing that the Oilers are a playoff team:
    Koskiinen: .904 sv % 18/19
    Smith: .896 sv % 18/19
    Hmmm indeed

    Thats another reason I am not sold on this team. Too many question Marks for me.

  55. jtblack says:

    godot10: The Oilers had to beat Calgary to get out of the division.

    Most players points per game goes down in the playoffs.My position on clutch is that ir really can only be seen in hindsight.It is extremely difficult to recognize it at the time.Recognizing players who can perform under pressure is part of the art of coaching.

    Daniel Briere.
    Justin Williams …

    Many more I am sure

  56. Pouzar says:

    godot10: Tiger was generational but not clutch.He had essentially no come from behind wins on Sunday until after his latest return from injury. If he was not already leading on Sunday, he essentially never won.

    It is WAAAAAYYY more difficult to keep a lead than come from behind in golf.
    It’s why he’s the 1A.

  57. Oilman99 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Yes, I agree – 2LW is a “?”, but Burd man needs to show more and would require a contract, so that is a complicating factor…
    If management are true to their words, I would suspect Manning may be 7D and Lagg (still a “youngster”) going to Bake for playing time, rather than pine time, but if Rusty isn’t ready, Lagg plays with Benning to start the season…

    Big Burd has three games against improved competition to show I’d he is legit. This is a big job for a guy that hasn’t played on the smaller ice, so the big guy has a large task. A guy with that size would be a big plus if he can show enough.

  58. Bag of Pucks says:

    godot10: Tiger was generational but not clutch.He had essentially no come from behind wins on Sunday until after his latest return from injury. If he was not already leading on Sunday, he essentially never won.

    Why does a definition of clutch have to include the ability to come from behind? He held his leads on Sunday and routinely sank long putts at critical times. Even late career, he’s maintained an ability to salvage pars from errant drives to poor lies. In his prime. Tiger performed well under pressure. That’s clutch.

  59. BONE207 says:

    Beat It Square:
    @Pescador – If Randy Gregg owned a clinic it would be called Dr. Doctor.

    Actually Dr. Gregg owned the Edmonton Sport Institute. Was my doc when I rehabbed my knee. In return I taught him how to take a slapshot…🤣

  60. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Benning needs to improve 100% this week if he is going to be anything better than a #7 d-man, or trade bait.

  61. Pescador says:

    RumBurgundy:
    My Dad had a friend whose nickname was “Clutch”. We asked him,
    “It is because he came up big in big moments in sports?”
    “No”
    “Was he into cars?”
    “No”
    “Then why?”
    “He was handsy with the ladies.”

    I don’t understand this post,
    are you calling Glen Anderson a pervert?

  62. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I encourage everyone to take a read through a post late in yesterday’s thread by Armchair with some very good research on Benning’s numbers in the top 4 over the years.

    Benning seems to be one on the controversial players. Some think he shouldn’t even be in the lineup, some think he’s a solid 3RD but nothing more and some think he’s got some ability up the lineup.

    The numbers are fairly evident that the team does well when he’s in the top 4 – both possession, GF% and xGF%.

    I admit that, from watching, the numbers seem to be greater than the eye test but the sample size is large and the numbers too good to ignore.

    What is it about Benning’s game that creates a lower analysis of the “eye test” – sure, he makes mistakes and sometimes they are glaring – so do Klefbom and Nurse and Larson. He doesn’t seem to be “a great” transitioner of the puck but the disk does go the right way when he’s out there – no matter where he is playing.

    I watched the two games he’s played this exhibition and, yup, he was “not good” and then “awful” – its also the first week of exhibition and he’s “a veteran”.

    Benning should be a solid part of this D-core and if he’s 3RD or even 7D for certain games, that likely means the defensive group is doing very well.

    In this day and age, a veteran player needs to come to camp ready to be as good or better than at the end of the season. The young guys are showing a better transition game than Benning so far, this could be an interesting week.

  63. Pescador says:

    Bag of Pucks: Why does a definition of clutch have to include the ability to come from behind? He held his leads on Sunday and routinely sank long putts at critical times. Even late career, he’s maintained an ability to salvage pars from errant drives to poor lies. In his prime. Tiger performed well under pressure. That’s clutch.

    Tiger Woods?
    Also very “handsy” with the ladies
    hmm, I’m beginning to see a disturbing trend here

  64. defmn says:

    dessert1111:
    Holding out hopes for unicorns….

    Neal-CMD-Kassian
    Nygard-Draisalt-Chiasson
    Jurco-RNH-Gagner
    Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
    Granlund, Cave

    I think that with a new head coach and GM you have to show you have the horses before you can make a case for unicorns. 😉

  65. Oilman99 says:

    Johnny Larue:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Kurt Leavins at the COH has Bear on the 3rd pairing with Russell and Benning as the 7th defenceman

    Bear has shown he can make a breakout pass under pressure, something both vets have trouble doing.

  66. Pescador says:

    Oilman99: In this day and age, a veteran player needs to come to camp ready to be as good or better than at the end of the season. The young guys are showing a better transition game than Benning so far, this could be an interesting week.

    What?
    Ethan Bear age 22
    William Lagesson age 23 (turns 24 in Feb)
    Mathew Benning age 25.
    Yes, the young up & comers are really showing the aged vets a thing or two about the transition game.

  67. rickithebear says:

    LT:
    “ you cannot be a clutch player without super clutch players.”

    Super Clutch:
    All goals leading up to GWG.

    Most important thing about clutch.
    It is about scoring goals.
    Deep down we all understand goals have more performance value than passing.

  68. Harpers Hair says:

    jtblack: Thats another reason I am not sold on this team.Too many question Marks for me.

    The most important consideration is the improvement of other teams in the division.
    Given that the two wildcard spots are almost guaranteed to go to Central teams, finishing top three in the Pacific is critical.
    To my eye, Vegas will be much improved with Mark Stone for a full season.
    The Flames may drop somewhat pending the Tkachuk signing.
    No reason to see any regression from San Jose especially with a healthy Karlsson.
    Both Arizona and Vancouver improved in the offseason.
    The Ducks should be healthier with great goaltending.
    What’s left?

  69. defmn says:

    rickithebear:

    It is about scoring goals.
    Deep down we all understand goals have more performance value than passing.

    I think I would rather have Gretzky in his prime than Ovechkin in his prime but maybe that is just me.

  70. rickithebear says:

    Pouzar: It is WAAAAAYYY more difficult to keep a lead than come from behind in golf.
    It’s why he’s the 1A.

    LMAO

    You are telling us it is much harder to shoot a
    71 than a 70
    70 than a 69
    69 than a 68
    68 than a 67

    I played 1-2 rounds of golf mon- Thur when school was out age 12-13.
    You play the course.
    Try to get the lowest score possible.

    Some of the silly shit you here from Media that gets driven into people’s brains.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    Mike Smith a full participant in practice today.

    Good news – he’ll get two starts this coming week and should be 100% for the start of the season.

    I don’t know how the tending will play out but having both 100% and ready to go gives the best chance for success, obviously.

  72. Side says:

    rickithebear,

    Not nearly as silly as someone who makes the leap that every post they disagree with is seemingly linked to “social justice warriors” and “the Media” on a hockey blog about the Oilers…

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lines in Kelowna;

    Drai/McDavid/Kass
    Gagner/Nuge/Neal
    Khaira/Sheahan/Archibald
    Granlund/Cave/Chiasson
    Jurco/Haas/Russell

    Nygard and Budasov rotating in

    Seems like they still are leaning towards Gagner in the top 6.

    I do like the fact they clearly see Chiasson as a bottom 6 guy which he is.

    I don’t know what to make of the 5th line and the rotators – does that mean the rotators are “ahead”?

  74. Pouzar says:

    rickithebear: LMAO

    You are telling us it is much harder to shoot a
    71 than a 70
    70 than a 69
    69 than a 68
    68 than a 67

    I played 1-2 rounds of golf mon- Thur when school was out age 12-13.
    You play the course.
    Try to get the lowest score possible.

    Some of the silly shit you here from Media that gets driven into people’s brains.

    I’ve been playing the game for 30 fucking years competively and watching for even longer.
    I’ve forgotten more about the game than you know you asshat.
    Don’t be coming at me with yer BS.

  75. OriginalPouzar says:

    D-pairings for practice:

    Nurse/Larsson

    Klefbom/Persson

    Russell/Benning

    Manning/Bouchard

    Lagesson/Bear

  76. Pouzar says:

    Daniel Nugent-Bowman
    @DNBsports
    ·
    1m
    Lines at Oilers practice in Kelowna:
    Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
    Gagner-RNH-Neal
    Granlund-Cave-Chiasson
    Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
    Nygard-Haas-Burdasov
    Jurco, P. Russell

    Nurse-Larsson
    Klefbom-Persson
    Russell-Benning
    Manning-Bouchard
    Lagesson-Bear

  77. rickithebear says:

    Pouzar: OP for whatever reason the haters have erased that time in history from their brains. Could never figure out why.

    I have repeatedly pointed out nurses junior International play that he can be a HD area def anchor.
    “Elite Baseline play” a ”Belichek & Rickibear guy”
    Add to his senior international play we see the same thing.
    I point to his 17/18 season as an added sign.
    But it is not the norm.

    15/16 3.05 evga/60 6 th worst
    16/17 2.69 evga/60 48th worst Bottom 50
    17/18 2.36 evga/60 58th Best Top 60
    18/19 3.03 evga/60 38th worst bottom 40

    “ one of these things is not like the other”

    Pouzar:
    Do not “False Eye” your seasons.

  78. Jaxon says:

    For interest re: clutch conversation:

    Name GP/GWG
    Mike Bossy 7.588235294
    Chris Drury 7.941176471
    Brett Hull 8.416666667
    Wayne Gretzky 8.666666667
    Johan Franzén 8.916666667
    Joe Sakic 9.052631579
    Guy Lafleur 9.142857143
    Daniel Briere 9.538461538
    Mario Lemieux 9.727272727
    Martin St. Louis 9.727272727

    Vyacheslav Kozlov 9.833333333
    Ken Linseman 10.27272727
    Stephane Richer 10.30769231
    Rick MacLeish 10.36363636
    Stu Barnes 10.54545455
    Peter Forsberg 10.78571429
    Phil Esposito 10.83333333
    Dino Ciccarelli 10.84615385
    Joe Pavelski 11.16666667
    Daniel Alfredsson 11.27272727
    Patrick Kane 11.54545455
    Mike Modano 11.73333333
    Teemu Selänne 11.81818182
    Patrick Marleau 11.9375
    Joe Nieuwendyk 12.15384615
    Jamie Langenbrunner 12.16666667
    Yvan Cournoyer 12.25
    Claude Lemieux 12.31578947
    Jeremy Roenick 12.83333333
    Jaromír Jágr 13

    That’s a pretty good indication of who most people think are clutch. I think any good coach would love to put out anyone from that top 10 in a tied playoff game.

    Sakic and Forsberg with Drury or Lemieux. Helped them win 2 cups with clutch players.
    Bossy was amazing in the playoffs.

  79. OriginalPouzar says:

    McNuge:
    RW sure looks bleak. If Burdasov or Jurco can move up, maybe we can move Neal over to RW and hope he gets his 20 goals..

    I think the clear plan is for Neal to play 2RW and the main open spot in the top 6 is 2LW – current leading candidates: Gagner, Nygard, Jurco.

    My lead is Jurco as I think Nygard can be effective in the bottom 6.

    I don’t know where to slot Gagner in the lineup (similar to Chiasson) but I’m confident but are in the starting 12.

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull:
    I don’t think Burdy is a distant bell. You don’t jump through those hoops for distant bells.

    What do people think? Are we Tip’s ‘yotes with just the world’s best player added?

    There’s a lot of guys that will have to stick to a rigid game or they’re going to get caved.

    I agree that he’s not a “Distant Bell” but an “Uncertain Oiler”, however, what hoops did they jump through?

    They signed a player to a PTO, a player a few teams were interested in.

    From accounts, the player was trying to get himself an actual contract – in the range of $1.7M or so.

    The team didn’t jump through that hoops to get him in to camp but ensured there was a no risk arrangement in place.

    Given practice today, he’s not taking a line spot away from coach’s current anticipated opening night lineup.

  81. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pouzar: It’s these types of signings that have doomed the Oilers since forever. Veteran tenured guys way past their best before dates.

    Can he be past his due date though? He just turned 26 since the end of last season. He may not have been any good to start with but I don’t think his issue is a function of decline.

    I think he was signed as the responsible 2-way bottom 6 guy that can PK. So far, he’s shown zero at 5 on 5 through two games and he’s been outplayed by many bubble candidates – the likes of Jurco, Cave, Russell, etc.

    With that said, its the first week of exhibition that we’ve seen.

    He does deserve some more rope and I do actually believe that Holland will “let him go” (i.e. waivers/California) if he doesn’t show more either through exhibition or early in the season.

  82. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Pouzar:
    Daniel Nugent-Bowman
    @DNBsports
    ·
    1m
    Lines at Oilers practice in Kelowna:
    Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
    Gagner-RNH-Neal
    Granlund-Cave-Chiasson
    Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
    Nygard-Haas-Burdasov
    Jurco, P. Russell

    Nurse-Larsson
    Klefbom-Persson
    Russell-Benning
    Manning-Bouchard
    Lagesson-Bear

    Thanks for posting!
    Line 2 looks too slow. It needs someone who can get in on the forecheck faster.
    I see Chia and Gagner as a bit “duplicative”. I wonder if both will be around in early October?

  83. Reja says:

    rickithebear:
    LT:
    “ you cannot be a clutch player without super clutch players.”

    Super Clutch:
    All goals leading up to GWG.

    Most important thing about clutch.
    It is about scoring goals.
    Deep down we all understand goals have more performance value than passing.

    Why Is clutch all about goal scorers? I’ll take a clutch goalie like Quick, Osgood or our beloved Smith these guys really crank up the intensity in the playoffs.

  84. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I encourage everyone to take a read through a post late in yesterday’s thread by Armchair with some very good research on Benning’s numbers in the top 4 over the years.

    Benning seems to be one on the controversial players. Some think he shouldn’t even be in the lineup, some think he’s a solid 3RD but nothing more and some think he’s got some ability up the lineup.

    The numbers are fairly evident that the team does well when he’s in the top 4 – both possession, GF% and xGF%.

    I admit that, from watching, the numbers seem to be greater than the eye test but the sample size is large and the numbers too good to ignore.

    What is it about Benning’s game that creates a lower analysis of the “eye test” – sure, he makes mistakes and sometimes they are glaring – so do Klefbom and Nurse and Larson. He doesn’t seem to be “a great” transitioner of the puck but the disk does go the right way when he’s out there – no matter where he is playing.

    I watched the two games he’s played this exhibition and, yup, he was “not good” and then “awful” – its also the first week of exhibition and he’s “a veteran”.

    Benning should be a solid part of this D-core and if he’s 3RD or even 7D for certain games, that likely means the defensive group is doing very well.

    My concern with Benning other than the eye test is his TOI of 15 min. That was lowest on the team and is low for even a third pairing guy. Jones had an avg 19 min a game last year. The question is why. Does he break down with more minutes? Did two different coaches see something that concerned them? I’m cheering for the kid and hope he solves the problem at 2RD.

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bling:
    I have Burdasov making the team. I was watching some highlights and the adjectives for his shot — “heavy”, “quick release” — don’t do it justice. Do yourself a favour and watch.

    He can score with a flick of the wrist from 25 feet out. There is one particular highlight where he lets it fly on an odd man rush from outside the top of the circle. The puck goes top shelf and bounces back to the face-off dot. The goalie didn’t even move. It’s an elite shot, and that’s for sure.

    Guys like Dadonov had their scoring translate practically 1:1 between the KHL and NHL.

    With that shot, I can see Burdasov as a 15-20 goal guy.

    There is little doubt that he has a high end shot.

    At the same time that will me zero at the NHL level if he isn’t able to find the space and work to get open to use that shot. I’m not saying he can’t do that, I have no idea at this point, just that the shot in itself, even if high end, isn’t enough to be an NHL goal scorer.

    Of course, he also would need to be able to be responsible, on the boards and in his positioning.

    From what I saw of his first game, he was able to do ALL of the above – of course, first week of exhibition……..

  86. Dr. Taboggan says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Granlund has never been a real NHLer. He played on terrible Vancouver teams and had middling results. It is not that he is past his best before date, it is more a case of him never being a quality NHLer.

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    dessert:
    Holding out hopes for unicorns….

    Neal-CMD-Kassian
    Nygard-Draisalt-Chiasson
    Jurco-RNH-Gagner
    Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
    Granlund, Cave

    I think you did them wrong though (said in jest, i just see it differently):

    Jurco/McDavid/Kassian
    Nygard/Drai/Chiasson
    Kharia/Nuge/Gagner
    SO MANY OPTIONS AROUND SHEAHAN AT 4C

    I see Jurco’s skill, hockey sense and hands to be a fit with McDavid – he needs a hockey IQ guy, not straight line speed

    I see Nygard’s speed as a fit for Drai who has had his success playing with, first Hall, then McDavid.

    Burdasov a complete wild card for one of those top 9 winger spots.

  88. OriginalPouzar says:

    JohnnyLarue:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Kurt Leavins at the COH has Bear on the 3rd pairing with Russell and Benning as the 7th defenceman

    Very well could be.

    Could also see Russell at 7D as today was his first full practice and maybe he “needs more time to get up to speed”.

    Lots to figure out in week 2 – its going to be awesome!

  89. rickithebear says:

    Pouzar: I’ve been playing the game for 30 fucking years competively and watching for even longer.
    I’ve forgotten more about the game than you know you asshat.
    Don’t be coming at me with yer BS.

    Once again I believe we met on salmon Arm Golf Coarse.
    I mentioned “ Oiler blog “ Lowetide”
    The individual said he posted as “Pouzar”
    It was a nice discussion re: oilers.

    I had a measurable handicap when I was 12-13.
    180 to 240 (very rare) down the middle 1 or 2 times edge of or on the green and 2 put.
    Had a short game cause of range
    and
    putting practice for an hour every day.

    “Greens in Regulation”
    “ hot stick”
    That is how the game is won!

    Recovery from poor baseline play is not clutch.

    It is you against the coarse!

  90. rickithebear says:

    Reja: Why Is clutch all about goal scorers? I’ll take a clutch goalie like Quick, Osgood or our beloved Smith these guys really crank up the intensity in the playoffs.

    You can only stop open goals.
    Do you know what % of shots faved were open.
    You could go back and look at video to figure out the open shot rate.

  91. OriginalPouzar says:

    silasbengtsson:
    While I doubt it comes to fruition, this would be my ideal now that Benson and Marody have been sent down.

    Draisaitl- McD- Kassian (they’ll outscore by how much and will it be enough?)
    Nygard- Nuge- Neal (speed and defensive support for Nuge to balance Neal’s weaknesses)
    JJ- Sheahan- Archibald (while they haven’t showed great, a solid bottom-6 line)
    Granny- Cave- Chiasson (would prefer Russell over Granny, but veteran benefits)
    Russell, Jurco (Haas back to Switzerland, both are pushing as is and will continue)

    Nurse- Larsson (hope for 2017-18 magic settle for something close)
    Klefbom- Benning (their numbers together are hard to ignore)
    Lagesson- Bear (Willy Legs has earned a spot to me Bear over Persson)
    Russell (I just prefer seeing new blood in the lineup)

    Koskinen/Smith

    Gagner waived or did you forget about him?

    Persson just not good enough for the NHL or beaten out or needs AHL time?

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Benning needs to improve 100% this week if he is going to be anything better than a #7 d-man, or trade bait.

    I fully admit that he has been “not good” and “awful” in his two games but, then again, first week of exhibition season….

    Did you read the post with the data and the analysis. I don’t think it can really be ignored that, notwithstanding what our eyes may tell us, when Benning is on the ice, generally more good things are happening than not – in various places in the lineup.

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    rickithebear: LMAO

    You are telling us it is much harder to shoot a
    71 than a 70
    70 than a 69
    69 than a 68
    68 than a 67

    I played 1-2 rounds of golf mon- Thur when school was out age 12-13.
    You play the course.
    Try to get the lowest score possible.

    Some of the silly shit you here from Media that gets driven into people’s brains.

    Come on Rikki – I know you know better.

    Yes, you play to get the lowest score, however, if you know you need to make up two strokes in the last 3 holes, it can 100% change the approach – maybe you have to “go for that par 5 in 2” over the water that you normally lay up in front of. Just one obvious example.

  94. Suntory Hanzo says:

    I personally think that game winning goals should only count if it is a go ahead goal. Not like it is now that maybe you scored the goal to go up 5-0, and the other team scores 4. That fifth goal at that time isn’t clutch. Now breaking the 4-4..

  95. Gret99zky says:

    hunter1909:
    Hunter1909’s Official 2019-20 Death March™

    Entries welcome between now and the first puck drop of the 2019-20 season(October 2)

    Here’s how you play: Guess how many points the Oilers get in the regular season.

    That’s it!

    Tie break: How many regular season goals does JP score for his new Finnish team?

    Points: 88
    JP Goals: 13

  96. Eh Team says:

    Pouzar: Manning-Bouchard

    That’s probably not a good sign for Bouchard.

    Willis tweeting that the Oilers would be better off claiming a vet d off of waivers than keeping Manning as the 7th d. Got to agree with that.

  97. Jethro Tull says:

    10001110101 is pretty Clutch.

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    As an aside, Nashville’s slightly lower pedigree version of Puljujarvi has been sent to the AHL – Tolvanen

  99. Jaxon says:

    Here’s another attempt at quantifying clutch. In the last 3 playoffs. Primary Pts / 60 when the score is within 1. Using thresholds for TOI (150 minutes) and TOI/GP (8.5 minutes @ score within 1, which, I realize has some major issues).

    Player Primary Pts / 60
    Jake Guentzel 2.88
    Tyler Seguin 2.770829325
    Leon Draisaitl 2.734078334
    Ondrej Palat 2.622711957
    Reilly Smith 2.516602587
    Sidney Crosby 2.457617476
    Alex Ovechkin 2.115296729
    Jakob Silfverberg 2.089682194
    Bobby Ryan 2.059159993
    Filip Forsberg 2.032367332
    Evgeny Kuznetsov 2.02651989

    Draisaitl is clutch!!!!!!!

  100. greenshifter says:

    Jethro Tull,

    +1/60

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    Smith is fully healthy and ready to go.

    Coach says he’ll play one game this coming week, maybe two.

    Go Smith!

  102. leadfarmer says:

    Our resident 90s bear fails to realize that you need different player types to fill out a roster
    We all remember what a mediocre hockey player Peter Forsberg was he never scored 35 goals how did he get in the hockey hall of fame
    Because you need guys that can open up shooting lanes for other players
    This is why you see Jeff Skinner break 40 goals for the first time last year.
    Was it cause he improved his shot, by age 27 he only scored 30 goals twice.
    Or was it because he had a guy that created very high danger scoring chances for him (high danger scoring chances in which a goalie is not set for the shot)
    Same as Maroon when he played with Mcdavid. Is he a 20 goal scorer? Or is he a guy that plays with a player that allows him a lot of very high danger scoring chances.
    Because once again
    Binary bear fails to see the difference
    You need passers you need shooters
    But most of all you need 5 guys that play as a unit

  103. drglen says:

    Maybe Burdasov will get a ‘don’t leave town’ ..

    I’ve watched some KHL footage.. would not mind him on a second unit power play.

    I’f they’ve put together some kind of defacto 3rd checking line, ( not entirely earned in my opinion) of Khaira, Archibold, and Sheehan… (the best of which is probably Archibald) … then what is the purpose of Granland exactly.

    Haas can start in AhL or swiss. but who knows maybe he lights it up this week. Everybody but Haas and Granland has basically earned their place for now… .. except frankly Khaira and Sheehan…. JJ has to step up.. I used to think he was very unique and very hard to replace.. I don’t think that way now. Sheehan… better be winning draws and killing penalties.

  104. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Can he be past his due date though?He just turned 26 since the end of last season. He may not have been any good to start with but I don’t think his issue is a function of decline.

    I think he was signed as the responsible 2-way bottom 6 guy that can PK. So far, he’s shown zero at 5 on 5 through two games and he’s been outplayed by many bubble candidates – the likes of Jurco, Cave, Russell, etc.

    With that said, its the first week of exhibition that we’ve seen.

    He does deserve some more rope and I do actually believe that Holland will “let him go” (i.e. waivers/California) if he doesn’t show more either through exhibition or early in the season.

    I thought we all agreed that it isn’t wise to place too much stock in preseason games

  105. Pescador says:

    GMB3: I thought we all agreed that it isn’t wise to place too much stock in preseason games

    Sure, we said a lot of things
    but that was before preseason started

  106. rickithebear says:

    OP:

    What do I say!

    Strong baseline play.

    72 holes.
    Need to make up 2 strokes in final 3 .

    Tells me the baseline play in the first 69 holes was inferior to the guy leading him.
    He had to modify his play in the final three holes cause of the inferior baseline performance in the other holes.

    72 holes not 3 holes.
    The best of 72 holes.

    Clutch is for those who short time frame think!
    Games are about the whole of the game.
    All scores.

    Golf:
    Lowest “72” hole score.

    Tiger was one of the best 72 hole players of all time.

    As a person who loves the game of golf.

    Would love to see a tradional major.

    Old coarse with hickory shaft, persimmon woods.

    Watching Todd Bergen crush the ball past 300yd with a persimmon at 16 was nuts.

  107. Side says:

    leadfarmer:
    Our resident 90s bear fails to realize that you need different player types to fill out a roster
    We all remember what a mediocre hockey player Peter Forsberg was he never scored 35 goals how did he get in the hockey hall of fame
    Because you need guys that can open up shooting lanes for other players
    This is why you see Jeff Skinner break 40 goals for the first time last year.
    Was it cause he improved his shot, by age 27 he only scored 30 goals twice.
    Or was it because he had a guy that created very high danger scoring chances for him (high danger scoring chances in which a goalie is not set for the shot)
    Same as Maroon when he played with Mcdavid.Is he a 20 goal scorer?Or is he a guy that plays with a player that allows him a lot ofvery high danger scoring chances.
    Because once again
    Binary bear fails to see the difference
    You need passers you need shooters
    But most of all you need 5 guys that play as a unit

    I’m starting to think Ricki is confusing hockey with foosball.

    If you apply Ricki’s theories to foosball, it actually makes a lot of sense in that case.

    The 3-1-1-1 formation applies.

    Secondary assists don’t matter.

    Only the forwards should be firing the ball on net while the D stay in their zone and cover the high danger areas. “Roving” d-men who are not protecting said high danger areas are all but useless.

    Shooting mechanics among players are all exactly the same.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    Yamamoto is in Bakersfield continuing to rehab.

    Day is going to need hand surgery.

    —————————–

    So, if an roster player is put on IR, their cap hit still counts – if these two players need to be put on IR, I assume their cap hits don’t apply because they finished lat season as non-roster players? If not, there is a major issue if we have to account for their $1.6M because we can’t send them down to the AHL.

    I assume, although won’t be able to research it now that, because they were not on the team at the end of last year, this will not be an issue.

  109. RonnieB says:

    drglen:
    Maybe Burdasov will get a ‘don’t leave town’ ..

    I’ve watched some KHL footage.. would not mind him on a second unit power play.

    I’f they’ve put together some kind of defacto 3rd checking line, ( not entirely earned in my opinion) of Khaira, Archibold, and Sheehan… (the best of which is probably Archibald) … then what is the purpose of Granland exactly.

    Haas can start in AhL or swiss. but who knows maybe he lights it up this week.Everybody but Haas and Granland has basically earned their place for now… .. except frankly Khaira and Sheehan…. JJ has to step up.. I used to think he was very unique and very hard to replace.. I don’t think that way now. Sheehan… better be winning draws and killing penalties.

    There’s another option for Haas (if he doesn’t make the team out of camp) that is not being mentioned. The Oilers weren’t the only team trying to sign him. There’s a non-zero chance that Holland can find a trade partner.

  110. duct tape and foil says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    From what I saw of his first game, he was able to do ALL of the above – of course, first week of exhibition……..

    Hard not to get excited about the guy’s potential. For me he stood out immediately, as in, thinking “who is that guy?” on his first shifts since I didn’t know his number or linemates. Yeah it’s not just the shot. He seemed to pick up the system crazy fast, was always in position, and was making the necessary small plays that guys need to make when playing with elite linemates.

    His last shift was tellling to me. Our dman rings the puck along the RW boards to Burd who is being challenged hard by a flames dman. With no fuss at all Burd pops the puck out toward the middle of the ice to one of our breaking forwards and he’s gone. We have not seen any RW (aside from Drai) make that deceptively difficult play under pressure, and it’s an absolute must to play with McDavid. Burd may be the anti-Lucic as we saw him screw that play up time after time for the last two years.

    Looking forward to seeing him the rest of pre-season, and if he shows well, they probably finalize a contract but he stays on PTO until they make some room though demotion, trade or waivers.

  111. hunter1909 says:

    ANOTHER EXCITING, INCREDIBLE SEASON

    Hunter1909’s Official 2019-20 Death March™

    Entries welcome between now and the first puck drop of the 2019-20 season(October 2)

    Here’s how you play: Guess how many points the Oilers get in the regular season.

    That’s it!

    Tie break: How many goals does JP score for his new Finnish team?

  112. Lowetide says:

    New for The Athletic: Matt Benning may be vulnerable to a trade as Ken Holland works to tweak Oilers roster

    https://theathletic.com/1231118/2019/09/22/matt-benning-may-be-vulnerable-to-a-trade-as-ken-holland-works-to-tweak-oilers-roster/

  113. rickithebear says:

    “But most of all you need 5 guys to play as a unit”

    BASELINE play

    Lead Not quite correct.

    “ but most of all you need 5 guys to play as a unit in the correct system.”

    Passers need good open shot players.

    Their are top passers who are superior at passing to players who get into open space.
    I have stated.

    Do you not remember what I post.

    You post obvious shit forgetting I have posted all the stuff you talk about years ago.

    Then you say I do not understand!

    No!

    YOU DO NOT FUCKING REMEMBER!

    You know what lead farmers real problem is?
    “Lead farmer does not understand the earth is round”

    Correct me if I forgot you saying the earth is round.

  114. Abbeef says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think you did them wrong though (said in jest, i just see it differently):

    Jurco/McDavid/Kassian
    Nygard/Drai/Chiasson
    Kharia/Nuge/Gagner
    SO MANY OPTIONS AROUND SHEAHAN AT 4C

    I see Jurco’s skill, hockey sense and hands to be a fit with McDavid – he needs a hockey IQ guy, not straight line speed

    I see Nygard’s speed as a fit for Drai who has had his success playing with, first Hall, then McDavid.

    Burdasov a complete wild card for one of those top 9 winger spots.

    Neal?

  115. jp says:

    Bling:
    I have Burdasov making the team. I was watching some highlights and the adjectives for his shot — “heavy”, “quick release” — don’t do it justice. Do yourself a favour and watch.

    He can score with a flick of the wrist from 25 feet out. There is one particular highlight where he lets it fly on an odd man rush from outside the top of the circle. The puck goes top shelf and bounces back to the face-off dot. The goalie didn’t even move. It’s an elite shot, and that’s for sure.

    Guys like Dadonov had their scoring translate practically 1:1 between the KHL and NHL.

    With that shot, I can see Burdasov as a 15-20 goal guy.

    Koskinen seemed to have some kind words.

  116. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think the clear plan is for Neal to play 2RW and the main open spot in the top 6 is 2LW – current leading candidates:Gagner, Nygard, Jurco.

    My lead is Jurco as I think Nygard can be effective in the bottom 6.

    I don’t know where to slot Gagner in the lineup (similar to Chiasson) but I’m confident but are in the starting 12.

    Would it be a sign of progress if our 2nd line wingers to end last season were our 4th line wingers to start 19-20?

  117. rickithebear says:

    LT was quick to delete my posts.

    Have waited 3 1/4 hrs to see if LT would delete the Character attack.

    I suspect he has not been on the blog.

    So I respond with this post I have saved fir 3 hrs.

    Side:
    rickithebear,

    Not nearly as silly as someone who makes the leap that every post they disagree with is seemingly linked to “social justice warriors” and “the Media” on a hockey blog about the Oilers…

    Every!
    Have you been here since 05/06.

    To say every!
    Is hyperbole!

    LT: has said no politics.
    But this was a personal attack.

    I am a Sask raised.
    Douglas Socialist.
    Medicare and Ensuring children are protected are my 2 mantra.

    Adults being whinny bitches cause they blame everyone for their choices does not cut it with a logical thinking Autistic.

    As science advances we understand affects on human success.
    The biggest contributor to child poverty and Social failure is Single parent lifestyle.
    The studies are in.
    It is not some secret hand shake club!

    Someone walks away.
    Someone cares for the children.
    I was a single father for 5 yrs.
    It is hard lifestyle.

    I was with my first wife at Reitmans Christmas party.
    Turned out all the staff were lesbian or BI. ( including my former wife)
    I got asked what makes a person gay (we are talking more than 17 yr ago.)
    It took the Social Phsocological constructionist view of the 8 major influences.
    Mix them up and you get a person.

    Now science is better than that.
    A whole lot of study shows bio chemical influences on brain synaps that dates back millions of years.

    I have benefited from advancement in science when it comes to my cancer.
    Compared to 25 yr ago.

    I believe in
    -Science,
    -logic,
    -Adults taking responsibility for their decisions.
    -Adding crime victims and Children to human rights bill!
    -Protection from “Real” discrimination.

    Just do not look me in the face and tell me something that is not supported with complex multivariable Science/Analysis is true.

    That is me!

    Now back to regularly scheduled sports discussion.

  118. Reja says:

    rickithebear: Once again I believe we met on salmon Arm Golf Coarse.
    I mentioned “ Oiler blog “ Lowetide”
    The individual said he posted as “Pouzar”
    It was a nice discussion re: oilers.

    I had a measurable handicap when I was 12-13.
    180 to 240 (very rare) down the middle 1 or 2 times edge of oron the green and 2 put.
    Had a short game cause of range
    and
    putting practice for an hour every day.

    “Greens in Regulation”
    “ hot stick”
    That is how the game is won!

    Recovery from poor baseline play is not clutch.

    It is you against the coarse!

    I loved the Salmon Arm course 8-9 years ago someone who was never caught poured acid in figure eights on all the greens in the middle of the night. The rumour was a former employee did this it took the course 5 years to recover lost a ton of Alberio tourist money and just recently was purchased by a Calgarian. Why would someone destroy a course it’s just plain nasty what this individual did.

  119. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks: But this has always been the issue with analytics trying to take a view on this. The sample sizes are truly singular and hugely contextual to the circumstances of a given game or shift. It can’t be appraised through larger slice quantitative analysis only.

    The struggle imo has always been that hockey analytics has struggled to find a balance between quantitative AND qualitative data crunching. Big data analyses in other industries is not ignoring this major area and in fact, many of the more cutting edge developments in analytics are occurring on the qualitative side as scientists are developing better models and tools to quantify behavioural insights.

    Glenn Anderson is tied for 3rd overall in playoff overtime goals. That’s where the ‘clutch’ mantle is earned and that’s the type of microscopic sample size that has to be embraced for this type of evaluation.

    Anderson played 225 playoff games. If we ballpark ~18min/gm that’s ~4000 minutes which is a very significant size.

    Where all this breaks down is trying to do this in real time, which is why Eberle is a good example of that.

  120. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Yeti:
    Clutch is a fans’ category. To try and develop analytics to specify and measure it is like calculating the angles in a beautiful piece of art. It can be done, and doing so will tell you something… but it misses the point. Clutch is about passion, the romance of the sport, and the kind of stuff that makes it fun. It’s about individual moments that write themselves into the collective memory. It’s real because we want it to be real, because it adds to our enjoyment of the team as the years roll by. Clutch is the shared Kodachrome moments that we keep locked away in your brain’s time capsule, yet we can pull out at the bar or the family gathering and say “remember when…” and every last person will exclaim in response: “Clutch!”.

    Awesome post.

  121. OriginalPouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Yamamoto is in Bakersfield continuing to rehab.

    Day is going to need hand surgery.

    —————————–

    We’ll be fine:

    If injured to start season they’ll be on season opening injured reserve. Cap hit for those players is based on their accumulated cap hit for last year. Day had no NHL cap hit last year so won’t have one this year. Yamamoto had $300K so cap hit this year is SOIR days/186 *$300K

    So, if an roster player is put on IR, their cap hit still counts – if these two players need to be put on IR, I assume their cap hits don’t apply because they finished lat season as non-roster players? If not, there is a major issue if we have to account for their $1.6M because we can’t send them down to the AHL.

    I assume, although won’t be able to research it now that, because they were not on the team at the end of last year, this will not be an issue.

  122. rickithebear says:

    Side: I’m starting to think Ricki is confusing hockey with foosball.

    If you apply Ricki’s theories to foosball, it actually makes a lot of sense in that case.

    The 3-1-1-1 formation applies.

    Secondary assists don’t matter.

    Only the forwards should be firing the ball on net while the D stay in their zone and cover the high danger areas. “Roving” d-men who are not protecting said high danger areas are all but useless.

    Shooting mechanics among players are all exactly the same.

    Pucks go in 500% more in HD area than all other ice.
    “It is logical” to do everything you can to achieve/prevent
    Entry
    Corsi
    HD penetration
    Open shots.

    Their are a series of high affect SOE that lead to player performance.
    A couple of Coaches decisions have 100% affect on all data.

    Rovers are brutal at
    -creation of HD penetration and Open shots compared to all skaters.
    – prevention of HD penetration and open shots compared to all dmen.

    Logically that is bad.

    Their are in kind schematics and actions in penetration sports.
    It is not wrong to learn from those observations.
    And
    Looking into why they do.

    Such narrow minded thinking!

  123. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: The Oilers had to beat Calgary to get out of the division.

    Most players points per game goes down in the playoffs.My position on clutch is that ir really can only be seen in hindsight.It is extremely difficult to recognize it at the time.Recognizing players who can perform under pressure is part of the art of coaching.

    Exactly.

    Figuring it out in real time is almost impossible.

  124. rickithebear says:

    Side:

    Completing passes matter.
    Putting the puck in the net matters more.
    Passing to a forward is more goal production effective than having a dman try to penetratevas a 1st, 2 Nd option.

    4 th option uncovered open High danger shots from Dmen are a beautiful thing.

  125. gimme shelter says:

    I hope management ie Ken is keeping an eye on the waiver wire. I would be looking at forwards and goaltenders.
    With that being said I hope they keep the Burd man around for a few more games. I wish he could practice at least with Connor. Connor needs a foil,someone who can score with one shot.Then the defender would not concern themselves only with Connor. Not that Drai is anyway but the best.
    Drai I wish could centre his own line. Then the problem comes full circle back to lack of wingers.

  126. jp says:

    RonnieB: There’s another option for Haas (if he doesn’t make the team out of camp) that is not being mentioned. The Oilers weren’t the only team trying to sign him. There’s a non-zero chance that Holland can find a trade partner.

    Wasn’t that Nygard? Maybe there were 1 or 2 other teams interested in Haas but I don’t think there was widespread interest. Even if there was interest I imagine the return would be as close to zero as possible. I guess a team could be interested in him as a waiver claim but there’s also no negative to the Oilers if he returns to Switzerland. .

  127. Lowetide says:

    Ricki: My Dad was a Tommy Douglas man. I swear he talked for hours about him. My Dad grew up in the 10’s and 20’s, was 18 when the ‘dirty 30s’ hit. I don’t like politics on the blog, and believe the issues facing Alberta have more nuance than we can reasonably discuss here, but I salute all social justice warriors who are fighting for freedoms. That includes speech, religion, race, creed and orientation.

    People somehow have married “they’re taking our oil” with “we need to stop these people from being different than we are” and I do not accept that to be true.

    For those who believe in the bible, I ask you this: Why did Jesus go to the well at noon, in the heat of the day? If you know the answer, and are browbeating those with less, who are a different colour or have a different orientation, shame on you. Shame.

    And guys, I’m pro-oil, have been since Husky gave my Dad a job in 1972 when he damn well needed one. However, Lougheed said (and he was right) we needed to diversify and that song remains the same today. What CAN we do to diversify in the next 10 years? I’d start a blog about that today.

  128. DieHard says:

    Mr Bear

    I love you. Your posts are great. A few years ago I couldn’t understand you. You have gotten much better at explaining your data. As a cancer survivor myself I find your life inspiring. Thank you.

  129. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks: But it’s also an athlete descriptor. The players themselves recognize that there’s an elite subset of their peers who don’t just perform under pressure, they actually excel in those crucible moments.

    It is almost exclusively psychological. Early in his career, was Tiger Woods clutch or simply very good? I think it was both and once he lost that dominant psychological edge, he remained a very good player but no longer one who always excels in those pressure moments.

    Interesting thing about Woods is that in all of his 15 Major Championships he never came from behind to win.

    In all 15 he went into the final round as the leader.

    I believe his is 15/17 going into the final round as the leader, but I might be off a hair.

    So,

    Is locking down his lead to win a high rate clutch?

    Is never coming from behind to win not clutch?

    Its these types of a questions that firmly put “clutch” decisions mostly outside of results analysis as commonly accepted definitions of things is crucial to examining results and learning anything from it.

  130. CMcD4PM says:

    Dr Hunter,

    Oil 91 pts
    JP 12 goals

    Please and thanks.

  131. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: Tiger was generational but not clutch.He had essentially no come from behind wins on Sunday until after his latest return from injury. If he was not already leading on Sunday, he essentially never won.

    I *knew* I wouldn’t be the first to post that

  132. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    jp: Wasn’t that Nygard? Maybe there were 1 or 2 other teams interested in Haas but I don’t think there was widespread interest. Even if there was interest I imagine the return would be as close to zero as possible. I guess a team could be interested in him as a waiver claim but there’s also no negative to the Oilers if he returns to Switzerland. .

    Both Haas and Nygard are waiver exempt.
    Which is a nice option, because they could both be sent to Bake with some encouraging words “to continue to adjust to the smaller ice” for a few weeks and see what happens with those left in the NHL
    I think Nygard should stay up on merit so far, but his contract does provide that option for an extended assessment of other pieces that are not waiver exempt.
    It will be an interesting week!

  133. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Pouzar: It is WAAAAAYYY more difficult to keep a lead than come from behind in golf.
    It’s why he’s the 1A.

    Really?

    Why?

    Also,

    Tiger entered the 4th round with ridiculous leads often, especially early in his career.

    He entered some 4th rounds close, but never closed the deal until the latest Masters (as Godot pointed out and I missed)

  134. rickithebear says:

    Yeti:

    Bang on!

    Personal Allegory!

    Used to buy $100 street art when on holidays.
    Bring back great memories looking at it on walks.

    Now it is Coffee mugs.
    But they get broken. Boo!

    Clutch!

    People get joy from it.

    I get joy from Super clutch!

  135. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Why does a definition of clutch have to include the ability to come from behind? He held his leads on Sunday and routinely sank long putts at critical times. Even late career, he’s maintained an ability to salvage pars from errant drives to poor lies. In his prime. Tiger performed well under pressure. That’s clutch.

    If he was *really* clutch he’s post a 68 when the leader put up a 71 when he was 2 back going into the 4th.

    See how this works and why it’s so tough to actually examine?

  136. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV: My concern with Benning other than the eye test is his TOI of 15 min. That was lowest on the team and is low for even a third pairing guy. Jones had an avg 19 min a game last year. The question is why. Does he break down with more minutes? Did two different coaches see something that concerned them? I’m cheering for the kid and hope he solves the problem at 2RD.

    Yes, you keep mentioning this and, honestly, I keep forgetting about it. It does seem like a valid data point and I don’t know what to make of it.

  137. Mr DeBakey says:

    Getting back to Glenn “Clutch” Anderson.
    Does this help?:

    Glenn Anderson Oiler Years
    .50 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .49 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Mark Messier Oiler Years
    .46 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .48 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Wayne Gretzky Oiler Years
    .84 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .68 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Jari Kurri Oiler Years
    .63 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .63 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    I spy a choker!

  138. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, you keep mentioning this and, honestly, I keep forgetting about it.It does seem like a valid data point and I don’t know what to make of it.

    McLellan, Hitchcock and now Tippett in a small sample size prefer other defensemen more. Each of these coaches valued Larsson and Russell ahead of Benning. Some of the advanced stats suggest Benning might be able to take on more chores, but the eye test says he hasn’t been right since the Stalberg hit in Feb. 2017.

  139. Lowetide says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    Getting back to Glenn “Clutch” Anderson.
    Does this help?:

    Glenn Anderson Oiler Years
    .50 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .49 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Mark Messier Oiler Years
    .46 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .48 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Wayne Gretzky Oiler Years
    .84 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .68 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    Jari Kurri Oiler Years
    .63 Goals/Game Regular Season
    .63 Goals/Game Play-Offs

    I spy a choker!

    Haha! Beautiful! May I suggest to everyone arguing over clutch that figuring out the Oilers penalty kill and sending a well crafted note to Tippett is a far more important chore.

  140. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I encourage everyone to take a read through a post late in yesterday’s thread by Armchair with some very good research on Benning’s numbers in the top 4 over the years.

    Benning seems to be one on the controversial players. Some think he shouldn’t even be in the lineup, some think he’s a solid 3RD but nothing more and some think he’s got some ability up the lineup.

    The numbers are fairly evident that the team does well when he’s in the top 4 – both possession, GF% and xGF%.

    I admit that, from watching, the numbers seem to be greater than the eye test but the sample size is large and the numbers too good to ignore.

    What is it about Benning’s game that creates a lower analysis of the “eye test” – sure, he makes mistakes and sometimes they are glaring – so do Klefbom and Nurse and Larson. He doesn’t seem to be “a great” transitioner of the puck but the disk does go the right way when he’s out there – no matter where he is playing.

    I watched the two games he’s played this exhibition and, yup, he was “not good” and then “awful” – its also the first week of exhibition and he’s “a veteran”.

    Benning should be a solid part of this D-core and if he’s 3RD or even 7D for certain games, that likely means the defensive group is doing very well.

    The reason we see Benning bad is that his skating is at best adequate. His defensive awareness and positioning seem to be very good. His hockey IQ and compete level are also above average. When he does get caught out of position which is generally not very often he does not have the wheels to recover quickly. At least that is what I have observed.

  141. drglen says:

    In the case of Kawai Leonard, Clutch, is actually 1000s and 1000s or hours of repetitive practice. The walk off shot against philly ( well agreed crazy friendly rim) .. he talked about how he worked on just that shot. gotta get the height just right. Maybe clutch is just latent skill.

  142. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Harpers Hair,


    The most important consideration is the improvement of other teams in the division.
    Given that the two wildcard spots are almost guaranteed to go to Central teams, finishing top three in the Pacific is critical.

    Agreed.


    To my eye, Vegas will be much improved with Mark Stone for a full season.

    Agreed. Still not sold on their D and Fleury is a year older, but the forward core might be the best in league.


    The Flames may drop somewhat pending the Tkachuk signing.

    SV% all stations from Feb 1 + (regular season)
    Rittich .898
    Talbot .897

    Hold your nuts. Shitty goaltending sinks good teams as a matter of course.


    No reason to see any regression from San Jose especially with a healthy Karlsson.

    Yeah, they’re probably the goods.


    Both Arizona and Vancouver improved in the offseason.

    Both still have rosters full of marginal players, less so for ARI imo.


    The Ducks should be healthier with great goaltending.
    What’s left?

    ANA has pissed away enough of their good young D that they’re too thin both up front and on the blue to be a player.

    EDM, CGY, ARI will fight for 3rd in the PAC and VAN won’t be close enough to matter by mid-FEB imo.

  143. OriginalPouzar says:

    EhTeam: That’s probably not a good sign for Bouchard.

    Willis tweeting that the Oilers would be better off claiming a vet d off of waivers than keeping Manning as the 7th d.Got to agree with that.

    They started last game with Lagesson/Bouchard and Manning/Bear and both pairs got killed in the first, in particular the Manning/Bear combo. They switched to Lagesson/Bear and Manning/Bouchard and both pairs played MUCH better the rest of the game – almost no scoring chances against.

    With that said, once the flames got deflated by the quick goals, they essentially stopped playing.

    I saw that tweet and he mentioned that, at least part of, the reason was due to cap but that subsumes that we are able to make Manning’s disappear which seems unlikely.

    We can get rid of $1.075M by assigning him to the AHL (after he clears waivers) but bringing in another d-man doesn’t help the cap and adds the 49th contract.

  144. Zelepukin says:

    duct tape and foil: His last shift was tellling to me. Our dman rings the puck along the RW boards to Burd who is being challenged hard by a flames dman. With no fuss at all Burd pops the puck out toward the middle of the ice to one of our breaking forwards and he’s gone. We have not seen any RW (aside from Drai) make that deceptively difficult play under pressure, and it’s an absolute must to play with McDavid. Burd may be the anti-Lucic as we saw him screw that play up time after time for the last two years.

    I thought I had summer drank away the memory of Lucic on the boards but I guess not.

    It’s amazing how we’re being hyper-evaluative on all the new prospects looking to break into the line-up this year when we literally had a pee-wee level player in terms of puck control and passing for the full last season.

  145. RonnieB says:

    jp: Wasn’t that Nygard? Maybe there were 1 or 2 other teams interested in Haas but I don’t think there was widespread interest. Even if there was interest I imagine the return would be as close to zero as possible. I guess a team could be interested in him as a waiver claim but there’s also no negative to the Oilers if he returns to Switzerland. .

    You could be right; at my age the memory plays tricks. I recalled that there were about 20 teams with varying interest in Nygard, while Haas chose the Oilers over 2 other teams in the end.

  146. OriginalPouzar says:

    GMB: I thought we all agreed that it isn’t wise to place too much stock in preseason games

    The post you responded to included the following:

    “With that said, its the first week of exhibition that we’ve seen.”

    Its clear what my position is on exhibition games and what they mean, generally. At the same time, give the decisions of the GMs over the years, its clear that the GMs, who make the actual decisions, do base many/some on exhibition performance.

    For some of these players, we have nothing else to go on.

    For some, its the way we currently have to differentiate among a class (i.e the class of Bear, Lagesson, Jones).

  147. Cassandra says:

    My favourite thing about Mr. Bear is the way he attributes his theories to people/teams who have success after the fact

    This Ricki Belichek stuff is gold.

    I also love the story that the Vegas Knights exemplify his theories. A team which plays nothing like Ricki advocates.

    The Blues win the Cup. All of a sudden the Blues play Ricki hockey.

    And his theory isn’t drawn from foosball. It is drawn from table hockey. He’s said so himself many times.

    Funny thing is I tend to think he is right about clutch. Why is the clutch goal more valuable than all the goals that were necessary in order for the clutch goal to be clutch?

  148. OriginalPouzar says:

    ducttapeandfoil: Hard not to get excited about the guy’s potential. For me he stood out immediately, as in, thinking “who is that guy?”on his first shifts since I didn’t know his number or linemates. Yeah it’s not just the shot. He seemed to pick up the system crazy fast, was always in position, and was making the necessary small plays that guys need to make when playing with elite linemates.

    His last shift was tellling to me. Our dman rings the puck along the RW boards to Burd who is being challenged hard by a flames dman. With no fuss at all Burd pops the puck out toward the middle of the ice to one of our breaking forwards and he’s gone. We have not seen any RW (aside from Drai) make that deceptively difficult play under pressure, and it’s an absolute must to play with McDavid. Burd may be the anti-Lucic as we saw him screw that play up time after time for the last two years.

    Looking forward to seeing him the rest of pre-season, and if he shows well, they probably finalize a contract but he stays on PTO until they make some room though demotion, trade or waivers.

    You nailed my thoughts on his play as well. It wasn’t just his shot, but he seemed to make all the little plays – like the one you mentioned. He seemed to be “on the right side” of pucks, he used his size to lean on players in the offensive zone and his skating seemed just fine to me.

    Of course, one game, but we far exceeded my expectations of him in that game and I don’t think the reasons were due to QoC.

  149. OriginalPouzar says:

    Abbeef: Neal?

    Ooops, Neal is with Khaira and Nuge (in place of Gagner). That was just typing the wrong player, not forgetting about Neal.

    Frankly, Gagner can “fight it out” with Chiasson for that spot on Drai’s wing.

  150. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    OriginalPouzar: They started last game with Lagesson/Bouchard and Manning/Bear and both pairs got killed in the first, in particular the Manning/Bear combo.They switched to Lagesson/Bear and Manning/Bouchard and both pairs played MUCH better the rest of the game – almost no scoring chances against.

    With that said, once the flames got deflated by the quick goals, they essentially stopped playing.

    I saw that tweet and he mentioned that, at least part of, the reason was due to cap but that subsumes that we are able to make Manning’s disappear which seems unlikely.

    We can get rid of $1.075M by assigning him to the AHL (after he clears waivers) but bringing in another d-man doesn’t help the cap and adds the 49th contract.

    Bouch seemed to have some words with Lag in the middle of a shift in front of their net. It was their last shift together

  151. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: Koskinen seemed to have some kind words.

    He said that Burdasov has a top-10 shot – I’m not sure if he meant, in the KHL or including the NHL…

  152. Wilde says:

    Speaking of this…

    The energy question, like almost everything else, isn’t a technological problem, or a problem-solving puzzle, or an issue of choice. It’s a problem of power, the problem is who gets to make choices.

    None of the paths forward are good if they’re decided on inside the current power structure.

    You know what’s the saddest thing? If an African, or a South American, or a Middle Eastern, or a Southeast Asian country democratically elects an administration that nationalises industries or expands their public sector for social good, their government will be immediately subject to immense political, economic, and military (covert or overt) pressure until they are toppled and replaced with a new government that ranges from reactionary military dictatorship or genocidal neofascism, to less bombastic versions of poverty-torturing corporate rule.

    They continue to struggle, overthrow them, and then it happens again. It’s a happy little cycle.

    Us? We just vote the representatives of oligarchy in.

    We just willingly surrender and vote towards the type of rule that’s brutally imposed elsewhere, because we at least have some of the spoils of that exploitation. Willingly vote against controlling the resources that lie in our country in favour of multination corporations controlling them.

    Anyways, I guess what I’m getting at is that it’s not about deciding what we should do about resource issues. it’s more about how we don’t actually get to make those choices at all. And unlike developing countries, I don’t /think/ the USA is going to like, carpet bomb northern Alberta if we make a certain political choice. Could be wrong.

  153. hunter1909 says:

    Wilde:
    Speaking of this…

    The energy question, like almost everything else, isn’t a technological problem, or a problem-solving puzzle, or an issue of choice. It’s a problem of power, the problem is who gets to make choices.

    None of the paths forward are good if they’re decided on inside the current power structure.

    You know what’s the saddest thing? If an African, or a South American, or a Middle Eastern, or a Southeast Asian country democratically elects an administration that nationalises industries or expands their public sector for social good, their government will be immediately subject to immense political, economic, and military (covert or overt) pressure until they are toppled and replaced with a new government that ranges from reactionary military dictatorship or genocidal neofascism, to less bombastic versions of poverty-torturing corporate rule.

    They continue to struggle, overthrow them, and then it happens again. It’s a happy little cycle.

    Us? We just vote the representatives of oligarchy in.

    We just willingly surrender and vote towards the type of rule that’s brutally imposed elsewhere, because we at least have some of the spoils of that exploitation. Willingly vote against controlling the resources that lie in our country in favour of multination corporations controlling them.

    Anyways, I guess what I’m getting at is that it’s not about deciding what we should do about resource issues. it’s more about how we don’t actually get to make those choices at all. And unlike developing countries, I don’t /think/ the USA is going to like, carpet bomb northern Alberta if we make a certain political choice. Could be wrong.

    Thing is, Alberta is an oil dependent province and the oil racket has gone into a temporary downturn.

    Shit happens.

    One day, the tide will rise and another boom will take place.

    Trouble is, people are silly and don’t bother to save for the bad times, they get suckered every time into thinking good times are never going to end.

  154. jp says:

    RonnieB: You could be right; at my age the memory plays tricks. I recalled that there were about 20 teams with varying interest in Nygard, while Haas chose the Oilers over 2 other teams in the end.

    That could well be right, I’m not certain either.

    Would those couple of teams still be interested if he fails to win a job over Cave? I dunno.

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Both Haas and Nygard are waiver exempt.
    Which is a nice option, because they could both be sent to Bake with some encouraging words “to continue to adjust to the smaller ice” for a few weeks and see what happens with those left in the NHL
    I think Nygard should stay up on merit so far, but his contract does provide that option for an extended assessment of other pieces that are not waiver exempt.
    It will be an interesting week!

    Agreed. The other thing with Haas is he probably comes off the 50-man if he doesn’t make the team since he’s said he’ll head back to Switzerland.

  155. OriginalPouzar says:

    When speaking of Anaheim, if we are to believe that Dallas Eakins is as terrible a coach as he’s made out to be, one would think that he would be a major negative on their chances.

  156. drglen says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I think we should rate Vancouver higher. They’ve actually got a really good goalie and their young core continues to improve, and score. I think their coach is highly undervalued, as is their overall defensive game.

    San Jose has imo peaked and will decline. Vegas continues to be a threat to take the division, as is Calgary. Actually I like the Oilers chances, if and only if, the goalies stop pucks. And we may be 1 d man, like a true true top notch NHL D, short. Not sure who’s out there, … some were talking about Gudas…, I’d be tempted to package a trade for Gudas or equivalent. I see Calgary, Vegas, then Edmonton/Vancouver. As pointed out, how can you have McD and a career year from Leon, and still miss the playoffs, and that’s the Goaltending and D. Smith and Mikko can get hot… but we may be in a position to trade for that strong 2RD, I think we have more trade bait than we thought.

    I don’t see Anaheim as any sort of threat, based on the loss of D as you say, aging core, .. and Eakins makes no difference. Only things saves Annaheim is a vezina season. I’m lking our team ( he says as he takes off his rose colored glasses)

  157. Wilde says:

    hunter1909: Thing is, Alberta is an oil dependent province and the oil racket has gone into a temporary downturn.
    Shit happens.
    One day, the tide will rise and another boom will take place.
    Trouble is, people are silly and don’t bother to save for the bad times, they get suckered every time into thinking good times are never going to end.

    None of those things are laws of nature. Alberta doesn’t have to be this dependant on oil, oil doesn’t have to be a racket, shit doesn’t have to happen.

  158. Gonzo says:

    hunter1909,

    Oilers 94 points because Smyth is probably my favorite oiler of all time and JP 21 goals

  159. Cassandra says:

    Wilde: None of those things are laws of nature. Alberta doesn’t have to be this dependant on oil, oil doesn’t have to be a racket, shit doesn’t have to happen.

    Places need reasons to exist. Right now Alberta is one of the best places in the world to be part of the labouring classes. Edmonton is an unbelievable city in terms of the mixing of classes.

    I grew up in Ottawa. My parents are part of the intellectual class (teachers, engineers, civil servants, lawyers, etc. )The parents of all my friends were part of the intellectual class. Every single person in my high school went to University. I never met anyone who worked in a trade until I moved to Edmonton. Edmonton is a better place than Ottawa for this reason.

    Without oil what reason does Alberta have to exist?

    The maritimes has no reason to exist. The gap between rich and poor is very stark in the Maritimes. It is also facing a demographic crisis.

    We can’t all live in Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal. The environmental lobby doesn’t seem to realize this.

    Canada can’t solve the problem of climate change. It can destroy itself trying.

  160. Richard Roma says:

    Gonzo:
    hunter1909,

    Oilers 94 points because Smyth is probably my favorite oiler of all time and JP 21 goals

    Doug weight’s mine. 39 wins x 2 points.

    So I’ll go with 78 points. 10 goals for JP.

  161. Old Timer says:

    hunter1909,

    Oilers 81 points

    JP 24 goals

  162. Wilde says:

    Cassandra: Places need reasons to exist.Right now Alberta is one of the best places in the world to be part of the labouring classes.Edmonton is an unbelievable city in terms of the mixing of classes.

    I grew up in Ottawa.My parents are part of the intellectual class (teachers, engineers, civil servants, lawyers, etc. )The parents of all my friends were part of the intellectual class.Every single person in my high school went to University.I never met anyone who worked in a trade until I moved to Edmonton.Edmonton is a better place than Ottawa for this reason.

    Without oil what reason does Alberta have to exist?

    The maritimes has no reason to exist.The gap between rich and poor is very stark in the Maritimes.It is also facing a demographic crisis.

    We can’t all live in Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.The environmental lobby doesn’t seem to realize this.

    Canada can’t solve the problem of climate change.It can destroy itself trying.

    1) I think it’s usually harmful to economic and power analysis to slice up ‘class’ by cultural signifiers. Class is distinguishable by your place in the mode of production and distribution. Anything else gets to normative claims before we even map out where everyone ‘is’. It’s about selling and buying labour.

    2) Don’t really want to get into ‘reason to exist’ territory

    3) In terms of ‘best place to be’, it’s probably best to use Rawls’ Veil of Ignorance. I don’t think Alberta is one of the best places for the working class through that exercise, but you used the terminology ‘labouring classes’ so our difference in terms means I can’t really properly argue against your position unless I adopt your terms – which doesn’t really interest me, mostly because 1).

    4) What do you mean by ‘demographic crisis’? I think things like that are more of a function of post-industrialisation and that’s what needs to be addressed there.

    5) If by the ‘environmental lobby’ you’re going to imply that some kind of higher power wants to address the oligarchy to the degree necessary to restructure these things, I think that’s getting the dynamic exactly backwards. The victims of climate change will be firstly be poor people, mostly in the global south. They don’t have a lobby.

    6) The best thing that O&G (and co.) has ever done is convince smart people of a (false) dichotomy between a strong economy and renewable energy.

    In terms of us regular folk, there are a lot of win-wins lying around from all the times that we’ve lost-lost thinking we’re making a mature compromise.

  163. defmn says:

    Leavins mentioning in his column today that the Black Hawks tried to sign Burdasov last year but he chose to stay in Russia because the NHL wasn’t going to the Olympics – and then he wasn’t chosen for the Russian team.

    The whole comment is here.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/after-2-cups-of-coffee-with-the-edmonton-oilers-is-ethan-bear-poised-to-finally-enjoy-the-full-meal-deal-9-things

  164. defmn says:

    And all of a sudden it is a political blog. 😉

  165. thepeetso says:

    Lowetide:
    Ricki: My Dad was a Tommy Douglas man. I swear he talked for hours about him. My Dad grew up in the 10’s and 20’s, was 18 when the ‘dirty 30s’ hit. I don’t like politics on the blog, and believe the issues facing Alberta have more nuance than we can reasonably discuss here, but I salute all social justice warriors who are fighting for freedoms. That includes speech, religion, race, creed and orientation.

    People somehow have married “they’re taking our oil” with “we need to stop these people from being different than we are” and I do not accept that to be true.

    For those who believe in the bible, I ask you this: Why did Jesus go to the well at noon, in the heat of the day? If you know the answer, and are browbeating those with less, who are a different colour or have a different orientation, shame on you. Shame.

    And guys, I’m pro-oil, have been since Husky gave my Dad a job in 1972 when he damn well needed one. However, Lougheed said (and he was right) we needed to diversify and that song remains the same today. What CAN we do to diversify in the next 10 years? I’d start a blog about that today.

    This ^^^^

    There must be more of us out there. You just can’t see ’em on the socials.

    My question is if there is any inkling from Coach Tip to at least have a look at 97 away from 29. I think this all depends on how good the russian, the young swede or the lucic return look.

    But if one of them looks like he can run on the top line with 97, you have to at least consider splitting up the Drai and McD.

    Don’t you?

  166. defmn says:

    Eric Gryba
    ‏Verified account @grybes02
    20m20 minutes ago

    I’m hanging up the skates! I am proud of the career I was able to put together and couldn’t be more grateful of all the support I received along the way. I am excited for my next chapter and all the challenges that are to come. Now let’s hunt!#timetohunt #nextchapter #retirement

  167. drglen says:

    Good for you Gryba! I’m sure he could play in Europe or KHL but I seem to recall that he a lot together, lots of non-hockey skills, outdoorsman I believe.. good call buddy time to start living real life.

  168. OriginalPouzar says:

    Gryba is retiring!

    He made a good career out of limited talent – now he can be a full time TV grill-master start – the next Matt Dunigan…….

  169. Harpers Hair says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Harpers Hair,


    The most important consideration is the improvement of other teams in the division.
    Given that the two wildcard spots are almost guaranteed to go to Central teams, finishing top three in the Pacific is critical.

    Agreed.


    To my eye, Vegas will be much improved with Mark Stone for a full season.

    Agreed.Still not sold on their D and Fleury is a year older, but the forward core might be the best in league.


    The Flames may drop somewhat pending the Tkachuk signing.

    SV% all stations from Feb 1 + (regular season)
    Rittich .898
    Talbot .897

    Hold your nuts.Shitty goaltending sinks good teams as a matter of course.


    No reason to see any regression from San Jose especially with a healthy Karlsson.

    Yeah, they’re probably the goods.


    Both Arizona and Vancouver improved in the offseason.

    Both still have rosters full of marginal players, less so for ARI imo.


    The Ducks should be healthier with great goaltending.
    What’s left?

    ANA has pissed away enough of their good young D that they’re too thin both up front and on the blue to be a player.

    EDM, CGY, ARI will fight for 3rd in the PAC and VAN won’t be close enough to matter by mid-FEB imo.

    Well..it seems we agree that Vegas and San Jose are quality but we diverge sharply from there.

    Suggesting the Oilers and Flames will battle for third spot in the Pacific because Calgary has questionable goaltending is absurd.

    Calgary gave up 47 fewer goals than the Oilers last season with Rittich and Smith.
    There is absolutely no reason to believe that Koskinen and Smith will outperform Calgary’s goaltenders this season considering Calgary’s D is much superior. Hold your nuts.

    The Flames scored 57 more goals last season despite NcDavid and Draisaitl having career year.
    The players the Oilers added won’t move that needle much if at all.

    It’s also possible Mangianpe and Dube will make the Flames out of camp on the third line with Derek Ryan.
    That’s put them up against such stalwarts as Granlund-some guy-some other guy

    Vancouver, for the first time in awhile, has a legit top six and some real options for a third line in Pearson, Baertshi, Leivo, Gaudette and Sutter.
    Acquiring JT Miller and Michael Ferland for top 6 roles pushed everyone down.

    And, of course, Vancouver’s goaltending tandem is superior to the Oilers and they’ve rebuilt their D with phenom Quinn Hughes added to the mix.

    Arizona gave up 51 fewer goals than the Oilers last season but couldn’t score much.
    They added Phil Kessel’s 27 goals and 82 points (remember he played mostly third line In Pittsburgh) and Carl Soderberg’s 23 goals and 49 points. With further development from Clayton Keller they should score more. Bear in mind, the Coyotes had a ton of injuries last season and still missed the playoffs by only 4 points and 7 points ahead of the Oilers.

    I agree that the Ducks are tough to call and that they’ve frittered away some D but they have great goaltending but they have some quality young forwards emerging in Ondrej Kase, Sam Steel and Troy Terry. The Oilers don’t have one prospect forward in that class.

    If I had to handicap it right now:

    1) Vegas
    2) Calgary
    3) San Jose

    Fighting for #3:
    4) Arizona
    5) Vancouver
    6) Anaheim

    Not a chance:
    7) Edmonton
    8) Los Angeles

    Which, oddly enough, is almost exactly the way the standings played out last season.

  170. Jethro Tull says:

    Hahaha, we’re all neo-Marxists and most of us don’t know it.

    The amount of activities funded by bottle drives, battery donations, etc, is sad in a supposed first world economy. Even Canadian liberalism is just a softer conservatism. Imagine if anyone promised a true social state? Political suicide in North America. People are just not ready for it.

    Most of these could be funded with a fraction of a fraction of the profits of oil companies.

    In the UK, most sports and such are funded by grants. You just supply your equipment. Even that can be subsidized. (We do pay 40% tax though as well as 17.5% value added tax)

    That the community pools together to ensure these things still happen would warm the cockles of Marx and Dickens. I know it warms mine.

  171. Munny says:

    Pescador: If Glenn Anderson owned a mechanic shop,
    it would definitely be called Dr.Clutch

    So… not “Mork and Mendy”?

  172. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Gryba is retiring!

    He made a good career out of limited talent – now he can be a full time TV grill-master start – the next Matt Dunigan…….

    Bet there was a call to St. Louis first….😆

  173. OriginalPouzar says:

    The Sharks could start to take a step back – the loss of Pavelski is material.

    They still have some real firepower in their top two lines but their bottom two lines look weaker than the Oilers, in my opinion.

    Similar on D – a star-studded top 3 but it falls off and, frankly, that D is, well, not young – not all d-men will age like a fine Gio.

  174. Wilde says:

    Jethro Tull,

    something something false consciousness, but I think you’re more down on us than I am; it seems like the end of our post-political moment has brought (almost) everything back on the table, good (in my view) and bad (in my view)

  175. Jethro Tull says:

    Wilde:
    Jethro Tull,

    something something false consciousness, but I think you’re more down on us than I am; it seems like the end of our post-political moment has brought (almost) everything back on the table, good (in my view) and bad (in my view)

    Nah, we’ll be alright. The sun will still rise. Marx was actually against being Marxist. Seems people twisted his altruism.

    I wish someone other than Connor and Leon would rise up and seize the means of 5×5 production.

  176. Munny says:

    Jethro Tull: People are just not ready for it.

    People are rarely ever ready for starvation, genocide or best case scenario, eventual insolvency, lol.

    You’d think Venezuela, Eastern Europe, Maoism, etc would prepare them. But always there’s a sense of surprise, much like The Spanish Inquisition.

    I blame public education and the MSM. 😉

    Unless you go look for it, you don’t get to hear about the “unique engineering” Japan and Federalist Europe have been undertaking to keep their economies afloat. QE and its consequences are currently still working their way through the economy on this side of the ocean. As we speak, the Fed is providing emergency funding to the US Banking system because the banks there don’t trust their counterparties—other banks!—for a weekend or even overnight. But no one gets to ask Head of Central Planning at The Fed why lol.

    We’ve all been far too socialist for far too long, and we’re going to pay for it one day.

  177. Wilde says:

    Munny,

    public education and media corporations are pro socialism yeah

    Jethro Tull: Nah, we’ll be alright. The sun will still rise. Marx was actually against being Marxist. Seems people twisted his altruism.

    I think the political consequences of drawing on Marx are the reason why ‘Marxist’ is used as an identity so often, when typically it’d be used to describe a position or argument, as we use ‘-ist’ and ‘-ian’ for significant figures in the development of this or that field.

    Whereas simply incorporating the theory and thought of Marx & Engels, or even acknowledging the existence of them in your analysis makes you some kind of Marxist or Neo or Post or whatever, when we’d never consider Marx himself as, say, a Hegelian.

    Marx being against Marxism is probably a human thing. People get weird about dead people’s ideas and it’s best to get ahead of it if you know you’re good at something.

  178. 106 and 106 says:

    The oilers should watch the waiver wire for a better goalie.

    Tampa waived their tender and he was 27-5 last year…

    Maybe carry 3 this year?

  179. Jethro Tull says:

    Wilde,

    This made me smile, thanks. Exactly how I see it.

    Both Dickens and Marx saw 3rd world suffering in supposedly the greatest Empire ever seen (Marx wrote a great deal.of his treatises in London during a raging Cholera epidemic).

    One was moved to change by bringing awareness to the masses through his serialization in the newspapers, the other to contrive a socio-political system he thought would end suffering, but instead led straight to Josef Stalin.

    Anyhoo, great Sunday night wind down conversation. Just need a bit of whiskey, steak and maybe a little hockey talk and it’s perfect!

  180. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Well..it seems we agree that Vegas and San Jose are quality but we diverge sharply from there.

    Yes.

    Suggesting the Oilers and Flames will battle for third spot in the Pacific because Calgary has questionable goaltending is absurd.

    It might be, but betting on Talbot who hasn’t been good since 16/17 and Rittich who has played 67 NHL games and finished poor is full of question marks.

    Calgary gave up 47 fewer goals than the Oilers last season with Rittich and Smith.
    There is absolutely no reason to believe that Koskinen and Smith will outperform Calgary’s goaltenders this season considering Calgary’s D is much superior. Hold your nuts.

    I never suggested that EDM’s pair would outperform CGY’s. I suggested that G could be a weak spot for CGY.

    Since you used the word “absurd” I suggest a bet.

    All situations SV% EDM’s total vs CGY. Set the line please.


    The Flames scored 57 more goals last season despite NcDavid and Draisaitl having career year.
    The players the Oilers added won’t move that needle much if at all.

    There is no question that CGY has a good forward corps.

    I disagree that EDM’s bottom 6 won’t move the needle.

    As Gregor wrote heret EDM’s bottom 6 was historically bad and there is no way to go but up.


    It’s also possible Mangianpe and Dube will make the Flames out of camp on the third line with Derek Ryan.
    That’s put them up against such stalwarts as Granlund-some guy-some other guy

    Those are 3 quality players.

    Vancouver, for the first time in awhile, has a legit top six and some real options for a third line in Pearson, Baertshi, Leivo, Gaudette and Sutter.
    Acquiring JT Miller and Michael Ferland for top 6 roles pushed everyone down.

    And, of course, Vancouver’s goaltending tandem is superior to the Oilers and they’ve rebuilt their D with phenom Quinn Hughes added to the mix.

    Edler, Alexander – Good. Old.
    Myers, Tyler – Was 3rd pair last 3 years
    Tanev, Christopher – How many GP? 40? Good. Always hurt.
    Stecher, Troy Good player
    Benn, Jordie -3rd pair help
    Hughes, Quintin -Rookie. Good rookie but rookie.
    Fantenberg, Oscar Who?
    Biega, Alex Who?


    Arizona gave up 51 fewer goals than the Oilers last season but couldn’t score much.
    They added Phil Kessel’s 27 goals and 82 points (remember he played mostly third line In Pittsburgh) and Carl Soderberg’s 23 goals and 49 points. With further development from Clayton Keller they should score more. Bear in mind, the Coyotes had a ton of injuries last season and still missed the playoffs by only 4 points and 7 points ahead of the Oilers.

    I like ARI but still think they don’t have enough talent who drive GF% up front. It all comes from D and G.

    I like Kessell, but I’m not sure he’s enough.


    I agree that the Ducks are tough to call and that they’ve frittered away some D but they have great goaltending but they have some quality young forwards emerging in Ondrej Kase, Sam Steel and Troy Terry. The Oilers don’t have one prospect forward in that class.

    Murray has pissed away quite a few Dman to the point where he’s trying to trade for Faulk.

    If Gibson is healthy, they’ll be in the mix.

    If he’s not they don’t have a hope.

    Here are the NHL Dmen they have under contract:

    Fowler, Cam
    Lindholm, Hampus
    Manson, Josh
    Holzer, Korbinian
    Del Zotto, Michael
    Guhle, Brendan

    After the top 3 there’s tumbleweeds.


    If I had to handicap it right now:

    1) Vegas
    2) Calgary
    3) San Jose

    Fighting for #3:
    4) Arizona
    5) Vancouver
    6) Anaheim

    Not a chance:
    7) Edmonton
    8) Los Angeles

    Which, oddly enough, is almost exactly the way the standings played out last season.

    Except your vaunted Dys finished behind a whole 2pts in front of EDM last year. No shit.

    1-2 – VGK, SJS
    3-6 -CGY, ARI, EDM, VAN
    7-8 ANA, LAK

  181. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Jethro Tull:
    I don’t think Burdy is a distant bell. You don’t jump through those hoops for distant bells.

    What do people think? Are we Tip’s ‘yotes with just the world’s best player added?

    There’s a lot of guys that will have to stick to a rigid game or they’re going to get caved.

    Please tell me the team that is stacked with great players at every position that isn’t just in front of a cap gutting?

    Seriously, the grass is always greener, but no early season favourite seems to ever win the Cup.

    There is a lot more to it than what looks good on paper, in hockey. Different than soccer and every other sport, in that it’s a hyper intense team game, full contact, on a small surface, that individuals can’t dominate enough to drive winning, like hoops for example.

    If the goalies pan out the chances are as good as any other non perrenial contender IMO.

  182. drglen says:

    “Hot Goalie wins the cup” … Ron Wilson

  183. northerndancer says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Wilde,

    This made me smile, thanks. Exactly how I see it.

    Both Dickens and Marx saw 3rd world suffering in supposedly the greatest Empire ever seen (Marx wrote a great deal.of his treatises in London during a raging Cholera epidemic).

    One was moved to change by bringing awareness to the masses through his serialization in the newspapers, the other to contrive a socio-political system he thought would end suffering, but instead led straight to Josef Stalin.

    Anyhoo, great Sunday night wind down conversation. Just need a bit of whiskey, steak and maybe a little hockey talk and it’s perfect!

    Thanks for the non-politics. Put me down as the third left winger on this line please. And now to a walk around my potemkin village.

  184. drglen says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    The thing is, I could see your 3 through 7 being separated by only 8 points.

    I don’t think ( and sure to be proven wrong) that Karlson and Burns will be as formidable.

    Arizona is a concern.. they just about made it last year,.. good D ( including maybe the best)

    Edmonton so low? I guess facts are facts.. but we do have 2 of the top 10 F in the league…. we just need stops, better D, and a penalty kill. ( wait, I’ve heard that somewhere before) Smith and Kosski have at times last seen been unreal. If fleury can get hot, so can these guys. I’m thinking we’re 4th fighting for the wild card.

    Of course if we start 2-8 I’ll have to reconsider. But we have the makings of a real and interesting top six and a buzz saw bottom 6. And, we’ve shed lucic and he personally basically killed so many games ( and Talbot) because we had to keep playing him. Shedding this anchor is worth another 10 points in the standings alone.

  185. Munny says:

    Wilde: public education and media corporations are pro socialism yeah

    Pretty sure that’s well-documented, From today’s news right back to Bismarck. Surprised you didn’t know.

  186. Wilde says:

    Jethro Tull,

    When I was last hitting my head against the wall trying to figure out how this team will get to contention in the next four years, I thought about his quote about history repeating itself.

    I think that Marx was primarily a critic (of capitalism and other intellectuals) and that any specific prescription of what to do with his critique in mind was beyond the work he wished to leave behind.

    For example, as I’m sure you know, the socialist phase was predicted to be instituted in an advanced, fully developed capitalist society as opposed to the semi-feudal Russia or China.

  187. Wilde says:

    Munny,

    Who has documented it well?

  188. Rebillled says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    A fine Gio?

    Some peoples knees would disagree.

  189. duct tape and foil says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Zelepukin,

    We will see how the next couple of games go, but I think he will be better, the game Friday was probably under the worst circumstances possible yet he showed well. Hopefully he’s in the right time zone by Tuesday and has a chance to play with Drai and Nuge a bit more.

    Like Tip said……intriguing

  190. Genjutsu says:

    defmn: I think I would rather have Gretzky in his prime than Ovechkin in his prime but maybe that is just me.

    Gretzky scored better than anyone in his prime.

  191. Munny says:

    Wilde:
    Munny,

    Who has documented it well?

    Well, I documented one specific example above that is repeated by the MSM on a daily basis, and has been in one variation or another for over 100 years. If you don’t believe me, I invite you to check it out. Central Banking just doesn’t get questioned. Central Banking is the most socialist institution of our society. Unquestioning support for its existence isn’t exactly non-socialist.

    And surely you are aware of WaPo, NYT and CNN’s support of Venezuela in the early days of their Socialism? Just one example but there are many more. Support for Clinton over Trump. They didn’t do champagne socialist millionaire Bernie any favours, but lets be fair, socialism is all about the Blat and they felt Clinton promised them more… maybe even get lucky and get to cover a glorious war or two.

    Not to mention all the salt that was thrown on the winning side of the election post-result. You didn’t read any of that? Went on for months.

    And Gord they love everything that comes out of AOC’s mouth, no matter how economically iliterate. You MUST have heard of her. If the MSM was right wing, she’d be in shreds by now.

    Perhaps you aren’t aware of the MSM’s whole-hearted support of AGW Climate Change, and the need to institute socialist policies in response, but somehow I doubt it. This support includes but is not limited to outright fear-mongering, a lack of fact-checking, publishing manipulated data,, publishing staged “photo-ops”, using other natural phenomena to claim “Climate Change”, using the Polar Bear for no apparent reason whatsoever considering its population’s success, other than the MSM knows polar bears pluck heart strings.

    Didn’t know the MSM supported doing anything and everything to prevent AGW? C’mon now.

    And of course, in Europe the MSM leans even more to the Left. Our very own bastion of the MSM is a public broadcaster.

    And if you aren’t aware of the rise of Identity Politics, Cultural Marxism and Political Marxism on campuses, I suspect you’ve been living in an igloo without satellite, because its been everywhere. These movements, which have been remarkably anti-free speech in their nature, are of course coming from the intellectuals who staff these institutions, and help governments set policy and curriculae as well as train the teachers who deploy it.

    Which in the end began with Bismarck, (although the promoting of socialist ideals have of course been written about in various pedagogical textbooks since), and his reasons for taking Germany down the path of Socialism, including instituting public education. Plenty there to read about if you want to go looking and haven’t already.

    But I suspect you’ve been disingenuous and already know all of this.

  192. Harpers Hair says:

    Just had a long

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Harpers Hair,

    Well..it seems we agree that Vegas and San Jose are quality but we diverge sharply from there.

    Yes.

    Suggesting the Oilers and Flames will battle for third spot in the Pacific because Calgary has questionable goaltending is absurd.

    It might be, but betting on Talbot who hasn’t been good since 16/17 and Rittich who has played 67 NHL games and finished poor is full of question marks.

    Calgary gave up 47 fewer goals than the Oilers last season with Rittich and Smith.
    There is absolutely no reason to believe that Koskinen and Smith will outperform Calgary’s goaltenders this season considering Calgary’s D is much superior. Hold your nuts.

    I never suggested that EDM’s pair would outperform CGY’s. I suggested that G could be a weak spot for CGY.

    Since you used the word “absurd” I suggest a bet.

    All situations SV% EDM’s total vs CGY.Set the line please.


    The Flames scored 57 more goals last season despite NcDavid and Draisaitl having career year.
    The players the Oilers added won’t move that needle much if at all.

    There is no question that CGY has a good forward corps.

    I disagree that EDM’s bottom 6 won’t move the needle.

    As Gregor wrote heretEDM’s bottom 6 was historically bad and there is no way to go but up.


    It’s also possible Mangianpe and Dube will make the Flames out of camp on the third line with Derek Ryan.
    That’s put them up against such stalwarts as Granlund-some guy-some other guy

    Those are 3 quality players.

    Vancouver, for the first time in awhile, has a legit top six and some real options for a third line in Pearson, Baertshi, Leivo, Gaudette and Sutter.
    Acquiring JT Miller and Michael Ferland for top 6 roles pushed everyone down.


    And, of course, Vancouver’s goaltending tandem is superior to the Oilers and they’ve rebuilt their D with phenom Quinn Hughes added to the mix.

    Edler, Alexander – Good. Old.
    Myers, Tyler –Was 3rd pair last 3 years
    Tanev, Christopher – How many GP? 40?Good. Always hurt.
    Stecher, TroyGood player
    Benn, Jordie-3rd pair help
    Hughes, Quintin-Rookie.Good rookie but rookie.
    Fantenberg, OscarWho?
    Biega, AlexWho?


    Arizona gave up 51 fewer goals than the Oilers last season but couldn’t score much.
    They added Phil Kessel’s 27 goals and 82 points (remember he played mostly third line In Pittsburgh) and Carl Soderberg’s 23 goals and 49 points. With further development from Clayton Keller they should score more. Bear in mind, the Coyotes had a ton of injuries last season and still missed the playoffs by only 4 points and 7 points ahead of the Oilers.

    I like ARI but still think they don’t have enough talent who drive GF% up front.It all comes from D and G.

    I like Kessell, but I’m not sure he’s enough.


    I agree that the Ducks are tough to call and that they’ve frittered away some D but they have great goaltending but they have some quality young forwards emerging in Ondrej Kase, Sam Steel and Troy Terry. The Oilers don’t have one prospect forward in that class.

    Murray has pissed away quite a few Dman to the point where he’s trying to trade for Faulk.

    If Gibson is healthy, they’ll be in the mix.

    If he’s not they don’t have a hope.

    Here are the NHL Dmen they have under contract:

    Fowler, Cam
    Lindholm, Hampus
    Manson, Josh
    Holzer, Korbinian
    Del Zotto, Michael
    Guhle, Brendan

    After the top 3 there’s tumbleweeds.


    If I had to handicap it right now:


    1) Vegas
    2) Calgary
    3) San Jose

    Fighting for #3:
    4) Arizona
    5) Vancouver
    6) Anaheim

    Not a chance:
    7) Edmonton
    8) Los Angeles

    Which, oddly enough, is almost exactly the way the standings played out last season.

    Except your vaunted Dys finished behind a whole 2pts in front of EDM last year.No shit.

    1-2 – VGK, SJS
    3-6 -CGY, ARI, EDM, VAN
    7-8 ANA, LAK

    Just had a long reply that vaporized.

    So in short…

    Yes, I’ll bet a Woodguy that Calgary’s all situation SV% is better than the Oilers.

    Second, I’ll bet another Woodguy that Vancouver finishes ahead of the Oilers in the standings.

    (This seems like a safe bet since Vancouver also had an historically bad bottom six last season and the Oilers hilariously acquired not one but two of the Canucks under performers )

    Please bear in mind you lost this bet to me last season and the Canucks have added two top six forwards, an elite D prospect, Tanner Pearson and Josh Leivo since last we wagered.

  193. defmn says:

    Genjutsu: Gretzky scored better than anyone in his prime.

    But assisted more. By quite a bit.

  194. JimmyV1965 says:

    Wilde:
    Munny,

    Who has documented it well?

    I think it’s pretty clear that most traditional MSM in newspapers and television lean to the left, with exceptions of course. On the other hand, most radio shows and many blogs lean to the right, with even more exceptions. If you’re referring to straight up socialist systems where the state controls the means of production, you are correct. No media in the west advocates anything other than the free market system.

  195. Wilde says:

    Munny:

    Well, I documented one specific example above that is repeated by the MSM on a daily basis, and has been in one variation or another for over 100 years. If you don’t believe me, I invite you to check it out. Central Banking just doesn’t get questioned. Central Banking is the most socialist institution of our society. Unquestioning support for its existence isn’t exactly non-socialist.

    I suspect this is going to be the first of many attempts to stretch the definition of socialism.

    Munny: And surely you are aware of WaPo, NYT and CNN’s support of Venezuela in the early days of their Socialism? Just one example but there are many more. Support for Clinton over Trump. They didn’t do champagne socialist millionaire Bernie any favours, but lets be fair, socialism is all about the Blat and they felt Clinton promised them more… maybe even get lucky and get to cover a glorious war or two.

    Not to mention all the salt that was thrown on the winning side of the election post-result. You didn’t read any of that? Went on for months.

    All three of those publications gleefully publish pro-regime change stuff wrt Venezuela.

    In 2016, they once published 16 negative stories on the self-identifying socialist in 16 hours. Hillary Clinton is not a socialist, or close, and it’s laughable to suggest otherwise.

    As for Trump and the media, their objections to him begin and end with him being uncouth and weird. He makes them an absolute shit-ton of money (these publications are and will be some of the few that survive the death of journalism and we knew it) and there have been executives who have openly talked about their profits from cashing in on their viewership’s obsession with hate-watching Donald Trump.

    When they do oppose him on foreign policy, it’s from the right. They openly taunt him when he engages in anything close to diplomacy with NK or Iran or the Taliban – anything. They went after him for dismissing John Bolton. John Bolton! Even with the disgustingly imperialistic foreign policy blob (that stays in place whether it’s a Dem or Rep in office), John Bolton wasn’t confirmed after he was appointed to the GWB administration during a recess.

    They’ve even hired several ex-CIA/FBI people and other neocons to take up spots in their coverage of Trump and they blatantly cape for authoritarian institutions while they chase after the Russia stuff.

    Opposition on its own requires context. Their opposition to Trump is not from a socialist position.

    Munny:
    And Gord they love everything that comes out of AOC’s mouth, no matter how economically iliterate. You MUST have heard of her. If the MSM was right wing, she’d be in shreds by now.

    This is a perfect time to weave in a note on your use of the phrase ‘MSM’.

    Of the main news channels, the one with the largest viewership is not CNN or MSNBC, it’s Fox News.

    And Fox News reported (negatively) on AOC so much, that polling has shown that more Republicans are aware of her than Democrats.

    Additionally, her policy positions were absolutely questioned when she was on these programs, with even ridiculous questions like how they would pay for the healthcare system we have.

    Final note – when she was a little bit too threatening to the Democratic establishment, they started to wage a war on her staff in order to oust her chief of staff, Saikat Chakrabarti. They laundered an internal poll, stovepipe style, on the supposed popularity of her and Ilhan Omar with Axios’ (I believe) complete complicity.

    Munny: Perhaps you aren’t aware of the MSM’s whole-hearted support of AGW Climate Change, and the need to institute socialist policies in response, but somehow I doubt it. This support includes but is not limited to outright fear-mongering, a lack of fact-checking, publishing manipulated data,, publishing staged “photo-ops”, using other natural phenomena to claim “Climate Change”, using the Polar Bear for no apparent reason whatsoever considering its population’s success, other than the MSM knows polar bears pluck heart strings.

    Didn’t know the MSM supported doing anything and everything to prevent AGW? C’mon now.

    Which socialist policy has been agitated for in the ‘MSM” (of which Fox News denies it exists)?

    Just last month, a study came out that looked at like 350 prominent climate change deniers and 350 expert scientists through 100 000 articles (online and offline) and 200 000 research journals, and guess what they ended up finding?

    People who say it isn’t happening/isn’t due to human activity get 49% more features and visibility.

    So Fox denies it as the company line, and CNN/MSNBC ride neutrality bias all the way in the opposite direction from scientific consensus.

    And that’s without getting into whether or not they even cover the issue to scale with its importance.

    And the fact that there’s tons of media, mass and ‘independent’, bankrolled by billionaires to propagandise against action on climate.

    Incredible take, it would be more stunning if I hadn’t read it elsewhere before, though.

    Munny: And if you aren’t aware of the rise of Identity Politics, Cultural Marxism and Political Marxism on campuses, I suspect you’ve been living in an igloo without satellite, because its been everywhere. These movements, which have been remarkably anti-free speech in their nature, are of course coming from the intellectuals who staff these institutions, and help governments set policy and curriculae as well as train the teachers who deploy it.

    The identity politics of today are profoundly liberal and representational – more interested in having perfect diversity in every profession than putting certain ones – like loan sharks – out of business.

    There’s a difference between liberal and left, let along socialist.

    As for ‘Cultural Marxism’, define that term please. Because I know it’s grandfather and I really, really hope that’s not what I’m dealing with here.

    Actual Marxism is not, and has not been at all popular on campuses – in economic departments you’d have to have tenure to teach it, all that’s taught now ranges from neoclassical to some Post-Keynesian. I initially learned Marx through old videos of reading groups a professor did in his local church after Capital baffled me in its first few pages.

    I believe the last time I checked in the social sciences something like 15% of professors are Marxists.

    From what you’re saying, I think I know where you’re getting your information from, so I think you’re going to say it’s something about gender and queer and ethnic and cultural studies? There’s actually considerable tension between Marxists/more vulgar materialists and them, in fact their work is often used as a weapon against the left – accusing people of being a bigot for centering class analysis over race or gender.

    That all culminated in a famous moment between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, when Clinton responded to a critique of her Wall Street connections by saying “breaking up the banks won’t solve racism”.

    Again, this is Liberal-on-Left violence.

    Final note on this: the free speech thing is not a particular to socialists or the left-wing. Professors have repeatedly been harassed and fired for having the wrong position on Israel-Palestine, for example. In fact, I think there’s a twitter thread I could link of like 50+ professors that have lost their positions in the last couple years from right-wing attacks.

    I disagree strategically with those protestors either way, but their inflation by right-wing media has been completely and utterly cynical. Woke-scolds are no fun, but when I was growing up the Evangelical Right was doing the same thing on a mass scale. It’s not a ‘socialist’ thing.

    As for your last bit, there’s a question that can really clear all of this up and finalise stuff for me, if you don’t mind: do you consider the Nazis to have been socialists?

  196. Wilde says:

    Harpers Hair: Just had a long reply that vaporized.

    Here’s a tip: when my internet is being bad I will sometimes lose posts when I hit ‘Post Comment’ and the next page doesn’t load, so after I press the button if it’s being slow I just highlight the whole post and copy it.

    Has saved a great many longer posts of mine.

    JimmyV1965: I think it’s pretty clear that most traditional MSM in newspapers and television lean to the left, with exceptions of course. On the other hand, most radio shows and many blogs lean to the right, with even more exceptions. If you’re referring to straight up socialist systems where the state controls the means of production, you are correct. No media in the west advocates anything other than the free market system.

    I think the legacy media is overwhelmingly at the centre of its society’s overton window, and since this neoliberal era has lasted so long, that centre is nowhere near the left.

    It’s owned by billionaires, so it has billionaire politics – they don’t mind the gays, but don’t raise high-income taxes. They oppose the right on certain social issues for Good Boy points but they’ll never endorse wealth redistribution.

  197. TeeVee says:

    defmn:
    Eric Gryba
    ‏Verified account @grybes02
    20m20 minutes ago

    I’m hanging up the skates! I am proud of the career I was able to put together and couldn’t be more grateful of all the support I received along the way. I am excited for my next chapter and all the challenges that are to come. Now let’s hunt!#timetohunt #nextchapter #retirement

    My fav Gryba highlight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNOwP3fUW6c

  198. RJ2016 says:

    Is this still a hockey blog?

  199. JimmyV1965 says:

    Wilde: I suspect this is going to be the first of many attempts to stretch the definition of socialism.

    All three of those publications gleefully publish pro-regime change stuff wrt Venezuela.

    In 2016, they once published 16 negative stories on the self-identifying socialist in 16 hours. Hillary Clinton is not a socialist, or close, and it’s laughable to suggest otherwise.

    As for Trump and the media, their objections to him begin and end with him being uncouth and weird. He makes them an absolute shit-ton of money (these publications are and will be some of the few that survive the death of journalism and we knew it) and there have been executives who have openly talked about their profits from cashing in on their viewership’s obsession with hate-watching Donald Trump.

    When they do oppose him on foreign policy, it’s from the right. They openly taunt him when he engages in anything close to diplomacy with NK or Iran or the Taliban – anything. They went after him for dismissing John Bolton. John Bolton! Even with the disgustingly imperialistic foreign policy blob (that stays in place whether it’s a Dem or Rep in office), John Bolton wasn’t confirmed after he was appointed to the GWB administration during a recess.

    They’ve even hired several ex-CIA/FBI people and other neocons to take up spots in their coverage of Trump and they blatantly cape for authoritarian institutions while they chase after the Russia stuff.

    Opposition on its own requires context. Their opposition to Trump is not from a socialist position.

    This is a perfect time to weave in a note on your use of the phrase ‘MSM’.

    Of the main news channels, the one with the largest viewership is not CNN or MSNBC, it’s Fox News.

    And Fox News reported (negatively) on AOC so much,that polling has shown that more Republicans are aware of her than Democrats.

    Additionally, her policy positions were absolutely questioned when she was on these programs, with even ridiculous questions like how they would pay for the healthcare system we have.

    Final note – when she was a little bit too threatening to the Democratic establishment, they started to wage a war on her staff in order to oust her chief of staff, Saikat Chakrabarti. They laundered an internal poll, stovepipe style, on the supposed popularity of her and Ilhan Omar with Axios’ (I believe) complete complicity.

    Which socialist policy has been agitated for in the ‘MSM” (of which Fox News denies it exists)?

    Just last month, a study came out that looked at like 350 prominent climate change deniers and 350 expert scientists through 100 000 articles (online and offline) and 200 000 research journals, and guess what they ended up finding?

    People who say it isn’t happening/isn’t due to human activity get 49% more features and visibility.

    So Fox denies it as the company line, and CNN/MSNBC ride neutrality bias all the way in the opposite direction from scientific consensus.

    And that’s without getting into whether or not they even cover the issue to scale with its importance.

    And the fact that there’s tons of media, mass and ‘independent’, bankrolled by billionaires to propagandise against action on climate.

    Incredible take, it would be more stunning if I hadn’t read it elsewhere before, though.

    The identity politics of today are profoundly liberal and representational – more interested in having perfect diversity in every profession than putting certain ones – like loan sharks – out of business.

    There’s a difference between liberal and left, let along socialist.

    As for ‘Cultural Marxism’, define that term please. Because I know it’s grandfather and I really, really hope that’s not what I’m dealing with here.

    Actual Marxism is not, and has not been at all popular on campuses – in economic departments you’d have to have tenure to teach it, all that’s taught now ranges from neoclassical to some Post-Keynesian. I initially learned Marx through old videos of reading groups a professor did in his local church after Capital baffled me in its first few pages.

    I believe the last time I checked in the social sciences something like 15% of professors are Marxists.

    From what you’re saying, I think I know where you’re getting your information from, so I think you’re going to say it’s something about gender and queer and ethnic and cultural studies? There’s actually considerable tension between Marxists/more vulgar materialists and them, in fact their work is often used as a weapon against the left – accusing people of being a bigot for centering class analysis over race or gender.

    That all culminated in a famous moment between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, when Clinton responded to a critique of her Wall Street connections by saying “breaking up the banks won’t solve racism”.

    Again, this is Liberal-on-Left violence.

    Final note on this: the free speech thing is not a particular to socialists or the left-wing. Professors have repeatedly been harassed and fired for having the wrong position on Israel-Palestine, for example. In fact, I think there’s a twitter thread I could link of like 50+ professors that have lost their positions in the last couple years from right-wing attacks.

    I disagree strategically with those protestors either way, but their inflation by right-wing media has been completely and utterly cynical. Woke-scolds are no fun, but when I was growing up the Evangelical Right was doing the same thing on a mass scale. It’s not a ‘socialist’thing.

    As for your last bit, there’s a question that can really clear all of this up and finalise stuff for me, if you don’t mind: do you consider the Nazis to have been socialists?

    Just a couple things because I don’t want to get into a political debate here. That study you refer to looking at the media hits for deniers and experts was hugely flawed. For some reason they didn’t include media hits for people like Al Gore and Greta Thunberg. It simply ignored the overwhelming media attention given to celebrity alarmists. Among its many failings, the study also did not reveal the type of media attention given to deniers, which is overwhelmingly negative.

    If you dare to have an open mind and want to learn something about CAGW, please visit climate etc, run by Dr. Judith Curry. Although she is routinely called a denier, she is actually an acclaimed climatologist who is a lukewarmer, someone who believes CO2 is warming the planet, but doesn’t think it’s a crisis. It’s a math blog so it should be right up your alley.

    Although most of the comments come from skeptics, there are many alarmists there as well, who like to discuss the issue in a civilized manner. Her latest thread is simply a bunch of links to articles from both alarmists and skeptics. Read the comments and you might actually gain some insight into the breadth of knowledge of these so-called deniers.

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