Grow Some Funk of Your Own

Ken Holland likes old people, and it’s already having an impact on the roster. Veterans 27 and older are on track to play over 500 man games this season, an increase over last year (412). At the same time, the department of youth (age 18-22) is on pace to play 222 games, the lowest total in five years. This is not a drill. The Edmonton Oilers are growing up.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, less than two coffees a month offer here. 

  • New Lowetide: Oilers’ 2016 draft and the value of waiting five years
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘I got a text from Wayne Gretzky that I’ve still got saved’: 8 years later, Sam Gagner reflects on his 8-point night.
  • Lowetide: What’s next for Tyler Benson and William Lagesson after being called up by the Oilers?
  • Lowetide:  Breaking down the Oilers’ 50-man list at the trade deadline and the changes expected to come
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Now it’s over’: With a new contract in hand, Zack Kassian ready to move on after Matthew Tkachuk fight
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers extend Zack Kassian, betting the power forward can continue to produce with Connor McDavid
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘That’s good for hockey’: Former Oilers weigh in on Battle of Alberta hype ahead of Tkachuk-Kassian meeting
  • Lowetide: Why the Oilers are more likely to trade Adam Larsson than Kris Russell
  • Lowetide: Is there real trade deadline value in the Edmonton Oilers’ prospect pipeline?
  • Lowetide: ‘Connor McDavid: Whatever It Takes’ works as breaking news, drama and personality profile
  • Lowetide: Oilers prospects Evan Bouchard and Tyler Benson deliver best minor league performances in 20 years
  • Lowetide: What do Connor McDavid’s best lines tell us about his optimal linemates?
  • Jonathan Willis: An updated list of which Oilers are most likely to be traded in 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto gives Oilers a midseason spark, one of the best in team history
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Josh Archibald, Riley Sheahan show the upward trend of Ken Holland’s offseason moves for the Oilers
  • Lowetide: Post-Christmas performance spike has Evan Bouchard pushing for an NHL job with the Oilers
  • Jonathan Willis: The Oilers’ road forward — and perhaps to a Stanley Cup — requires trusting the kids on defence
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Deciding what to do with Darnell Nurse, Mike Smith, Tyler Benson and Evan Bouchard
  • LowetideKen Holland’s targets for his first trade deadline with the Oilers.
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s trade deadline options for the Oilers
  • Lowetide: Complete Oilers top 20 prospects list, winter 2019

MCDAVID CLUSTER (18-22)

Jesse Puljujarvi and Evan Bouchard should and will (respectively) be part of this cluster, replacing all the home runs created with Leon Draisaitl graduating. A year ago, this cluster was six deep, and may increase in total by year’s end (Bouchard, Tyler Benson). However, with Draisaitl moving to the ‘peak’ cluster, the falloff from past seasons is drastic:

  • 2015-16: 411 games, 63-125-136 .331 points-per-game; .153 goals-per-game
  • 2016-17: 409 games, 80-170-250 .611 points, .196 goals
  • 2017-18: 334 games, 85-146-231 .692 points, .254 goals
  • 2018-19: 253 games, 98-141-239 .945 points, .387 goals
  • 2019-20: 141 games, 40-71-111 .787 points, .284 goals

The most efficient McDavid cluster was a year ago, with 97-29 delivering 91 goals. That’s enormous offense from a sliver of the roster. Don’t think about it, it’ll drive you insane. The gap is Draisaitl. He graduated. Puljujarvi was poorly developed and we are here. The emergence of Bear, Jones and Yamamoto is wildly encouraging. Need more. Benson? Bouchard? What happened to Marody? Under Holland, this category might not get to 150 man games next season.

THE PRIME CLUSTER (23-26)

  • 2015-16: 485 games, 68-96-164 .338 points and .140 goals
  • 2016-17: 515 games, 72-123-195 .379 points and .140 goals
  • 2017-18: 717 games, 101-133-234 .325 points and .141 goals
  • 2018-19: 778 games, 71-165-236 .303 points and .091 goals
  • 2019-20: 487 games, 73-153-226 .464 points and .150 goals

This year’s prime cluster will be the best in the five year run we’re looking at, that’s a positive. It’ll be even better a year from now when McDavid moves to this part of the depth chart. The key will be having enough pushing up from the young group, and, perhaps for the first time in one forever, a veteran group that has enough quality to help the Oilers make the playoffs and get deep into spring.

THE VETERAN CLUSTER (27+)

  • 2015-16: 667 games, 68-122-190 .285 points and .102 goals
  • 2016-17: 640 games, 91-117-208 .325 points and .142 goals
  • 2017-18: 515 games, 43-105-148 .287 points and .083 goals
  • 2018-19: 412 games, 54-59-113 .274 points and .131 goals
  • 2019-20: 318 games, 55-62-117 .368 points and .173 goals

The veteran group is the hole where the money goes, but RNH, Klefbom, Larsson and others join this cluster next year. For years now the Oilers have cut off this arm of the roster. Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle would be here but Edmonton has been shooting veterans out of a cannon since Ryan Smyth.

As a comparison, Calgary’s 27+ group includes Mark Giordano, Derek Ryan, Mikael Backlund, Travis Hamonic, TJ Brodie and David Rittich.

NEXT YEAR’S CLUSTERS

  • 18-22: Kailer Yamamoto, Evan Bouchard, Tyler Benson
  • 23-26: Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Darnell Nurse, Matt Benning, Ethan Bear, Caleb Jones
  • 27+: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Adam Larsson, Oscar Klefbom, Zack Kassian, Mikko Koskinen

That looks more balanced, and if the Oilers can resist dealing Nuge and Klefbom (I think Larsson is a candidate for trade), then this veteran group is going to be a big factor next year.

I think it goes even deeper than that. When we talk about the trade deadline, all options are 27+ (of course) and free agency is same. Taylor Hall, Chris Kreider, Mike Hoffman, Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Tyler Toffoli could all be targets this summer.

Trade targets might be veterans with a year left on their deals. Men like Brandon Saad, Travis Zajac and Tomas Tatar may be available now if the right offer is made.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, TSN1260. Guests include Chris Meaney from The Athletic to talk Super Bowl, and the return of Jason Gregor to talk about his beloved Chiefs winning it all. He’ll also break down a classic win by the Oilers in Calgary on Saturday night. Best part of the show is your input, so send those clever words to text 10-1260 and twitter @Lowetide. See you on the radio!

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328 Responses to "Grow Some Funk of Your Own"

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  1. Bulging Twine says:

    Darth Tu:
    I take this to mean that Calgary have changed their thoughts about acquiring a scoring winger, and instead will go for the MOAR BIGGER approach.

    A team of Lucic, Buddy Big Boots, Rinaldo and some other giant person will definitely help them. More character in the room and all that.

    Ya, I couldn’t figure out why their answer to MacKinnon was Lucic?!?

  2. Munny says:

    Woodguy v2.0: The weeping, gnashing of teeth, tearing of garments, and wearing of sack clothe and ashes by the Leaf portion of my Twitter timeline is making me conflicted.

    You tell those LeaFans to put on their best hair shirts and take their penance!

    The Hockey Gords giveth and the Hockey Gords taketh away…

  3. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – this whole termination of buffs contract got me thinking. It seems like a great opportunity to take advantage. A team that is saddled with a bad contract: Oiler take it on in a trade where they get something then offer a package to terminate said player

    – Take Neal: what’s preventing the team say next year from “terminating” him and pay him the rest of his money over time and Neals contract is gone? As long as player gets paid and they are willing.

  4. Bulging Twine says:

    OriginalPouzar: Listening to Dregor early today, he’s not so sure Ottawa isn’t going to re-sigh him as opposed to trading him.

    He is from Ottawa as well.
    I heard that about Kreider as well.
    I wonder if these are for trade posturing. “well, we think we are going to resign him, but we could be persuaded if……”

  5. Harpers Hair says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – this whole termination of buffs contract got me thinking. It seems like a great opportunity to take advantage. A team that is saddled with a bad contract: Oiler take it on in a trade where they get something then offer a package to terminate said player

    – Take Neal: what’s preventing the team say next year from “terminating” him and pay him the rest of his money over time and Neals contract is gone? As long as player gets paid and they are willing.

    The Jets and Bufuglien are working on a mutual contract termination.

    If successful, this will make Byfuglien a UFA so his contract will be voided and the Jets will owe him nothing.

    I suppose the Oilers could try to do this with Neal but he would have to walk away from the remaining dollars on his contract.

  6. ArmchairGM says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    As per Al Gore:


    Frederik Andersen: Has suffered an upper-body injury and will not return to the game. https://t.co/SjKH4k4pmV#nhl #LeafsForever

    If this is going to hold him out for some time they might not make the playoffs.

    And you with a hit on the over at 6.5! Nice!

  7. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – this whole termination of buffs contract got me thinking. It seems like a great opportunity to take advantage. A team that is saddled with a bad contract: Oiler take it on in a trade where they get something then offer a package to terminate said player

    – Take Neal: what’s preventing the team say next year from “terminating” him and pay him the rest of his money over time and Neals contract is gone? As long as player gets paid and they are willing.

    Are you suggesting that they team and player mutually agree to terminate the contract but then the team pays the player what he would have been owed anyways? Ya, the league would NOT allow that.

    That would go against the cap circumvention provisions.

  8. Harpers Hair says:

    Dustylegnd: The Tampa Bay lightening respectfully disagree

    The Lightning had to choose between Miller or Brayden Point because of cap constraints.

    They chose wisely and Vancouver is reaping the benefits.

    Win-win.

  9. Bulging Twine says:

    Munny:
    Bulging Twine,

    I think the Rangers have already confirmed there’s no concussion.Read that somewhere on the intertubes around noonish.

    That’s good to hear for his sakes. It didn’t look pretty.

    And although I would love the Flames to trade away their first for a rental my son reminds me that Kreider injures goalies. He wrecked a Habs playoff by running into and injuring Price and then I think, I could be wrong, but I think he ran into another one in a playoff series, could’ve maybe been Bishop or Vasilevsky. So if there is an Oiler – Flame playoff…..

    I just googled, Kreider injures goalie, and there is this video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtHdkK46iIk

    and headings like: “Chris Kreider is a goalie killer” and “Chris Kreider, Goalie Crasher” and “Chris Kreider skates into another goalie” and “Chris Kreider getting reputation as habitual crease crasher”

  10. Litke 94 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: The weeping, gnashing of teeth, tearing of garments, and wearing of sack clothe and ashes by the Leaf portion of my Twitter timeline is making me conflicted.

    On one hand I know the pain of watching a key player on the team I cheer for go down.

    On the other hand LOLEAVES.

    I’m going to have to think on this.

    Folding like a K-Mart lawn chair now. Hutchinson getting the Bronx cheer. Yikes.

  11. jeetz says:

    Harpers Hair: Seriously?

    VCR gave up their first round pick for a PPG 26 year old player who has been a perfect fit.

    Would you rather have a 20th overall pick who MIGHT be a player in 3-5 years, if ever?

    You have to keep your 1st round pick. That is the only way to sustain being an elite team. You have to constantly have new players pushing into your top six F and top 4 D to stay out of salary cap hell and to avoid overpaying UFAs and aging vets to fill your roster. Yamo/ Benson / Puljujarvi / Bear / Jones are perfect examples. Some aren’t going to turn out but you have to hope for some home runs too

  12. Bulging Twine says:

    Harpers Hair: Seriously?

    VCR gave up their first round pick for a PPG 26 year old player who has been a perfect fit.

    Would you rather have a 20th overall pick who MIGHT be a player in 3-5 years, if ever?

    I wouldn’t mind a division rival giving up a 1st for a rental, no

  13. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    OriginalPouzar: Are you suggesting that they team and player mutually agree to terminate the contract but then the team pays the player what he would have been owed anyways? Ya, the league would NOT allow that.

    That would go against the cap circumvention provisions.

    – But that’s what happening. Surely Buff is getting paid and both sides benefit

    – Besides as long as both parties agree to terminate the contract: what the owner of a team and a player agree to privately is not the business of the NHL.

    – Buff is helping the team. For sure there is quid pro quo.

  14. Bulging Twine says:

    OriginalPouzar: The post had nothing to do with JT Miller and the trade.

    It had to do with looking ahead to the draft and that certain teams don’t have 1st round picks and are happy for it.Noone was talking about if the acquired asset in exchange for the pick was good value or not but simply that, when the draft is held, the teams won’t be choosing in the first round.

    Exactly – Thank you

  15. Reja says:

    With Neal out this is the perfect time to get Benson and Kassian working the boards hard and Benson also springing Connor in the neutral zone. It’s time for Connor to become a shooter first and go Super Nova and hopefully Benson sweet passes translates at the NHL level.

  16. Harpers Hair says:

    jeetz: You have to keep your 1st round pick. That is the only way to sustain being an elite team. You have to constantly have new players pushing into your top six F and top 4 D to stay out of salary cap hell and to avoid overpaying UFAs and aging vets to fill your roster. Yamo/ Benson / Puljujarvi / Bear / Jones are perfect examples. Some aren’t going to turn out but you have to hope for some home runs too

    First, you have to be an elite team.

  17. Material Elvis says:

    In Kapanen’s defense, practice did start pretty early (noon).

  18. npanciroli says:

    Haha at Toronto. I enjoyed that.

  19. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – this whole termination of buffs contract got me thinking. It seems like a great opportunity to take advantage. A team that is saddled with a bad contract: Oiler take it on in a trade where they get something then offer a package to terminate said player

    – Take Neal: what’s preventing the team say next year from “terminating” him and pay him the rest of his money over time and Neals contract is gone? As long as player gets paid and they are willing.

    That’s explicitly against the CBA.

    Teams have buyout contracts if they are giving compensation.

    Terminations only happen when the team and player both agree on terminating the contact and no compensation is given.

  20. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Harpers Hair: The Jets and Bufuglien are working on a mutual contract termination.

    If successful, this will make Byfuglien a UFA so his contract will be voided and the Jets will owe him nothing.

    I suppose the Oilers could try to do this with Neal but he would have to walk away from the remaining dollars on his contract.

    – the only obligation is to agree to terminate by each party. Plus in this case the grievance.

    – No way buff is walking away from the millions he is legally entitled to.

    – he’s getting paid one way or the the other. Terminate. Get checks from owner. Not in the purview of anybody. Simply a private transaction between a former employee and owner.

  21. Nit64 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – But that’s what happening. Surely Buff is getting paid and both sides benefit

    – Besides as long as both parties agree to terminate the contract: what the owner of a team and a player agree to privately is not the business of the NHL.

    – Buff is helping the team. For sure there is quid pro quo.

    Let’s set the over/under at 2.5 NOs. I’ll take the over.

  22. duct tape and foil says:

    Three way trade:

    To TOR – Georgiev
    To EDM – Kapanen and alarm clock
    To NYR – JP

    ….or EDM trades JP for Georgiev and then works out the 2nd deal with TML for Kapanen that includes picks and/or secondary pieces (Lagesson/Benning) to make it work. JP could hang out with Kakko on Broadway and TML gets a goalie.

  23. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Harpers Hair: Agree completely but perpetual pearl clutching is a massive mistake.

    Counting on low first round picks to be saviors is not a wise strategy.

    Buying rentals is sketchy at the best of times and it’s been years since I thought it was good business to trade a 1st for a contract that runs out at the end of the season.

    Firsts, like players, don’t all the same value.

    A late round first this year, just like in 2003 and 2015 is worth ~10th many years or a 1st overall in Yak’s draft year. 🙂

  24. Material Elvis says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Would James Neal accept a 3rd line role if he was given PP time?

    It would cost $2m a year for the next six years to buy him out.

    I think we need to keep James Neal somewhat happy for this year and 2 more after that (until the new TV contract bumps up the Cap)

    If we get a legit 3C, would

    Neal-Pageau-Chaisson/XXX/Maksimov serve to keep Neal happy for 2 1/2 more years?

    Can Neal function as a 3LW, and by function I mean, would he accept the role, if we were a contender?

    I wouldn’t keep him for the next three years. No way, no how. A buyout saves the team 3.8M next year — use that to improve the roster.

  25. nelson88 says:

    Ahh Toronto. Almost as satisfying as watching the last BOA

    Kapenan for Brogan Rafferty and Cole Cassels. Calling it now

  26. Nit64 says:

    LTIR and then a job in the NHL HQ. That’s the ticket 😉

  27. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Numenius: Would be quite something if the injury prevents Neal from playing enough to get 21 goals, and we don’t lose the 3rd rounder.

    3rd round picks are relatively low value. Neal’s contract being moveable is extremely high value.

    Hope for 30. Someone might get the fever and take him at a palatable price.

  28. Munny says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – But that’s what happening. Surely Buff is getting paid and both sides benefit

    – Besides as long as both parties agree to terminate the contract: what the owner of a team and a player agree to privately is not the business of the NHL.

    – Buff is helping the team. For sure there is quid pro quo.

    –Nope

    –Nope

    –Nope, Byfuglien is waiving the final year of his salary because he no longer wants to play for the Jets (bad blood over the injury and suspension). He might feel that he can recoup some or all of the money playing elsewhere, who knows. Jets need immediate cap clarity so they’re willing to go along with it too.

  29. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Whether the production is with McDavid on the ice or not, we are talking about elite production over the course of three years, top 10 at his position.

    I think his ability to defend and to get controlled zone exits, even by skating, is quite helpful to the production when he’s on the ice.

    I know the he gets matched with McDavid and more McDavid minutes but 10th in the entire league over 3 years and we aren’t willing to give the guy 2nd pairing money for term when that is only one of a number of positive attributes?

    6.5 MM, which most here would give him, is solidly 1st pairing money.

    Your characterization of “2nd pair” money isn’t correct.

  30. tileguy says:

    Devastating

  31. Harpers Hair says:

    nelson88:
    Ahh Toronto. Almost as satisfying as watching the last BOA

    Kapenan for BroganRaffertyand Cole Cassels. Calling it now

    That a complicated trade.

    Casells is now in the Penguins organization.

  32. Material Elvis says:

    Harpers Hair: First, you have to be an elite team.

    Tippett has them playing pretty damn close to elite right now. That said, there’s almost no way I’d trade the 2020 1st rounder because the roster depth is shit.

  33. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    ArmchairGM: And you with a hit on the over at 6.5! Nice!

    Woot!

  34. Munny says:

    You double dipper, you!

    He certainly fits the hiring profile over at “Player Safety”.

  35. Ari says:

    Darth Tu,

    This made me laugh out loud. Awesome.

  36. Harpers Hair says:

    Material Elvis: Tippett has them playing pretty damn close to elite right now.That said, there’s almost no way I’d trade the 2020 1st rounder because the roster depth is shit.

    You answered your own question.

  37. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – the only obligation is to agree to terminate by each party. Plus in this case the grievance.

    – No way buff is walking away from the millions he is legally entitled to.

    – he’s getting paid one way or the the other. Terminate. Get checks from owner. Not in the purview of anybody. Simply a private transaction between a former employee and owner.

    I didn’t see that it was you I responded to in my first response, sorry will try to be more diligent in the future.

    While I’m here……..

    I’m not surprised that you think that you “thought of an idea about how to circumnavigate the cap” that the hundreds of lawyers who work and run NHL teams (and the league) haven’t thought about.

  38. nelson88 says:

    Harpers Hair: That a complicated trade.

    Casells is now in the Penguins organization.

    What?! DSF swore he was the next big thing. Can’t believe a quality organization like the Dys let himget away!

  39. Harpers Hair says:

    So, here is what I would do.

    Trade the Oilers first round pick plus a D prospect to Minnesota for Jason Zucker.

    He has three seasons left at a $5.5 million cap hit.

    Zucker has a 10 team no trade list and I would wager Edmonton is on it, but he might be persuaded to waive for a chance to play with McDavid.

    Easily a 30 goal scorer on McDavid’s wing.

  40. jtblack says:

    The TANK is real in Detroit. They lose 3-0 on Home Ice and manage 16 shots.

    DET is now 5 – 29 in their Last 34.

  41. Harpers Hair says:

    nelson88: What?!DSF swore he was the next big thing. Can’t believe a quality organization like the Dys let himget away!

    The Canucks are loaded at centre.

    Pettersson
    Horvat
    Gaudette
    Sutter
    Beagle
    Schaller

    Often you just have to cut bait.

  42. Klima's_Bucket says:

    A few questions on JT Miller.

    1) JT Miller has never had more than 56 points in a season.
    Is this new PPG JT Miller what he will be over the duration of the contract?

    2) Tampa Bay was over a salary cap induced barrel this summer.
    Why toss them a first in one of the deepest drafts of all time?

  43. Nit64 says:

    Harpers Hair: Zucker has a 10 team no trade list and I would wager Edmonton is on it, but he might be persuaded to waive for a chance to play with McDavid

    ~ The agencies all work with a preprinted draft contract with Edmonton on the NO-NO list, but when players actually get asked they want to come here. ~

    Or are you trying to tell us something is different in the water here this year?

  44. Material Elvis says:

    Harpers Hair: You answered your own question.

    You can have poor roster depth and still lay a beat down on most teams in the NHL — the Oilers are proving this. If they had depth, they would be a Stanley Cup contender. As it stands, I believe most teams would prefer to avoid an Oilers matchup because of the style they are playing.

    I’d only be willing to part with that 1st rounder for a scorer who has reasonable term on his contract.

  45. Dustylegnd says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    A few questions on JT Miller.

    1) JT Miller has never had more than 56 points in a season.
    Is this new PPG JT Miller what he will be over the duration of the contract?

    2) Tampa Bay was over a salary cap induced barrel this summer.
    Why toss them a first in one of the deepest drafts of all time?

    Because Jim Benning

  46. jtblack says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    A few questions on JT Miller.

    1) JT Miller has never had more than 56 points in a season.
    Is this new PPG JT Miller what he will be over the duration of the contract?

    2) Tampa Bay was over a salary cap induced barrel this summer.
    Why toss them a first in one of the deepest drafts of all time?

    He had 56 & 58 points. PP points were 7 & 18.

    Followed by 47 in Tampa. 20 PP.

    This year he has 17 PP pts already.

    Stapled to #1 Line and number 1 PP unit. PDO even 100. S% 15.6 (career 13.2%).

    He’s 26.

    IMO he may not continue to be an 80 point guy. But there is no reason he cant put up 60 – 80 for the next 3 yrs+.

    He takes draws and is over 50%.

    He is just a really solid all around Hockey Player.

  47. Harpers Hair says:

    Klima’s_Bucket:
    A few questions on JT Miller.

    1) JT Miller has never had more than 56 points in a season.
    Is this new PPG JT Miller what he will be over the duration of the contract?

    2) Tampa Bay was over a salary cap induced barrel this summer.
    Why toss them a first in one of the deepest drafts of all time?

    Actually his best season was 58 points split between the NYR and TBL in 2017/18.

    Last season, due to the vast number of forwards TB has, he played 3rd line minutes and still managed 47 points in 75GP.

    If ever there was a player to make a bet on, it’s Miller.

    You can argue about the price but what is the likelihood a 2020 draft pick in the 20 overall range scoring a PPG in the next 3-5 years?

    I expect it is close to zero.

    It’s a massive homerun for the Canucks especially given he is an elite play driver and stellar defensive player.

  48. Dustylegnd says:

    Jason sucker is 28 years old and has scored over 50 points exactly once…… in 2017/2018

    Now we want to trade a 1st round pick and a prospect for a guy who is being paid $5.5per..for this year and 3 more

    This is the deepest draft since 2015/2003….and we aren’t sure about our 3rd line or our goaltending or our defence….no thanks

    Nailing this draft is how we acquire elite depth, not by trading for 28 year old players with one good season of exceptional scoring numbers

  49. v4ance says:

    Cam Talbot interview: https://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status/1224439918694453248?s=20

    Q: Cam the novelty of you fighting has you know got the whole city abuzz. Now that the emotion is out of it and everything and I know you said it was incredible cause Rittich had to go back in but can you see the, I don’t want to use the word levity but, can you look back at it here and say ahhh, it was kind of interesting that you got involved in something like that.

    A: Yeah, I mean it was just one of those things he’s waiting at the red line and it was just you know.. just I kinda was already in the fights already so I was just like oh he’s already waiting so let’s go.

    Q Did you phone blow up yesterday?

    A: Ya! Ya! Soon as I got off the ice.They didn’t tell me I wasn’t going back in. I guess until the refs kinda settled it and there’s only about 5 minutes about left in the intermission. By the time I got my gear off I think I had like 45 messages already so.(laughs) It was people back home, people from here, it was just crazy the reaction we got.

    Q Can they expect more?

    A: I don’t think so, no. (laughs around)

    Q: People just go crazy for goalie fights as you started to decide “kay, we’re doing it”, are you aware that the whole city’s losing it’s mind.

    A: Not in the moment I was more focused on him at centre ice. I’ve seen him, he’s a big boy. So I knew it wasn’t really gonna work out well for me but. (laughs) At that the same time, It’s just one of those things where it just felt like it was the right thing to do in the moment.

    Q: Did you really know that? As you were skating up to him, you were like, “Boy, this is gonna be a tough one”?

    A: Yeah, I mean he’s a big boy. Like I said I seen him and from what I gathered from obviously guys who played with him they know how big and strong he is so I kinda knew it wasn’t gonna work out great for me but it was one of things I felt like I needed to do it.

    Q: Did you hear from him? Did you hear from him after?

    A: I got a couple messages from guys on their team and they just said that he respected me for coming out and meeting him out there and I respected him for doing the same.

    Q: It kinda looked like Darnell Nurse made the reservation for you?

    A: He did. I actually didn’t see him standing there until Darnell’s like “Go! He’s right there Go!” … Okay

    Q: Do you wanna say to Darnell, thanks…thanks

    A: Thanks for that buddy. Yeah. I know. Again, I think they knew how it was gonna work out for me too but (laughs all around) It was just one of those things in the moment that felt like the right thing to do.

    Thanks Darnell!!!

    I totally respect Cam even though he’s a Flame. Just a good guy all around.

    Oh and btw, Cam is sporting a nice shiner under his right eye in the interview….

  50. who says:

    Scungilli Slushy: 3rd round picks are relatively low value. Neal’s contract being moveable is extremely high value.

    Hope for 30. Someone might get the fever and take him at a palatable price.

    No team is trading for Neal this summer if they have even 1 scout watching him.
    Even if he scores 30.
    He’s done.

  51. Harpers Hair says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Jason sucker is 28 years old and has had 1 season of over 50 point exactly once in 2017/2018

    Now we want to trade a 1st round pick and a prospect for a guy who is being paid $5.5per..for this year and 3 more

    This is the deepest draft since 2015/2003….and we aren’t sure about our 3rd line or our goaltending or our defence….no thanks

    Nailing this draft is how we acquire elite depth, not by trading for 28 year old players with one good season of exceptional scoring numbers

    Nailing this draft, if you’re drafting anywhere between 20 and 30, means you’re kicking the can down the road another 3-5 years.

  52. v4ance says:

    who: No team is trading for Neal this summer if they have even 1 scout watching him.
    Even if he scores 30.
    He’s done.

    No team should have traded for Lucic and yet Calgary did the deal. If they watched even 1 or 2 games of video on Looch, they’d have seen he was done too.

    Name recognition of fading or flatlined stars among old school GMs still causes bad trades all the time

  53. Dustylegnd says:

    who: No team is trading for Neal this summer if they have even 1 scout watching him.
    Even if he scores 30.
    He’s done.

    the reality is that within 2 years we will be paying Neal to not play period….and whenever the org feels it is the optimal year to buy him out….he will be bought out….Lucimoto TM does not provide that option….

    We win the trade and get some useful production this year and we also decide when to fire Neal into the sun

  54. Dustylegnd says:

    Harpers Hair: Nailing this draft, if you’re drafting anywhere between 20 and 30, means you’re kicking the can down the road another 3-5 years.

    Because in the history of the league no 19 or 20 year old pick has ever made a contribution within 2 years….here are players drafted 16th or lower

    2003 draft
    Patrice Bergeron
    Brett Burns
    Cory Perry
    Ryan Getzlaugh
    Zach Parise
    Kessler
    Richards

    2015

    Barzal
    Sebastion Aho
    Chabot
    Boeser
    Konecny
    Beauvillier

  55. Bulging Twine says:

    From NHL.com, “The forward has been the subject of trade rumblings because he can become an unrestricted free agent July 1. The Athletic is reporting that the Rangers are looking for a return like the one they got for Kevin Hayes last season ahead of the deadline and months away from the forward becoming an unrestricted free agent. The Rangers traded Hayes to the Winnipeg Jets on Feb. 25 for forward Brendan Lemieux and a first-round pick in the 2019 NHL Draft.”

    There were 3 NY Rangers scouts watching the last game. Were they scouting Dube? A first and Dube? Is that why Dube was back in the lineup? Not sure who else would be similar to last season’s Lemieux. Bennett? Mangiapane?

  56. who says:

    v4ance: No team should have traded for Lucic and yet Calgary did the deal.If they watched even 1 or 2 games of video on Looch, they’d have seen he was done too.

    Name recognition of fading or flatlined stars among old school GMs still causes bad trades all the time

    I should clarify.
    No team is taking Neal without a sweetener, or equally bad contract coming back to the Oilers.
    That’s what happened in the Lucic trade. The Flames were willing to take a slightly worse contract because they felt they needed the toughness.
    I can’t think of anything Neal brings right now that another team covets. Maybe PP scoring but I really think every team has a cheaper net front presence already on their roster.

  57. GMB3 says:

    Did Kasperi Kapanen just get into more trouble for sleeping in than Auston Matthews assaulting a woman?

  58. Dicky94 says:

    who,

    Definitely not this summer but Holland could easily get rid of him in the expansion draft the following year.

  59. Side says:

    This is the part of the evening where HH logs off for the night, defeated, where he goes back to the drawing board to prepare for his performance tomorrow night.

  60. who says:

    Dustylegnd: the reality is that within 2 years we will be paying Neal to not play period….and whenever the org feels it is the optimal year to buy him out….he will be bought out….Lucimoto TM does not provide that option….

    We win the trade and get some useful production this year and we also decide when to fire Neal into the sun

    Yep.
    Agree with all of this.
    The notion that Neal will become more tradeable if he just puts up better boxscores has always puzzled me. Any scout watching him can see the end is near.

  61. pts2pndr says:

    Bio mechanics and learning to hit through your target not at it.

  62. flyfish1168 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: EDM played CGY on Saturday night like they were intimidated by Lucic’s reputation?

    I must have missed that.

    I was at the game. milan couldn’t look Darnell in the eye and would constantly have is back turn away. You can see Darnell was waiting. Not sure if they had any conversation.

  63. jtblack says:

    I would Love Zucker on Edm. Hes been a 20 G 50 Pt guy playing with average players. He could do what Millers doing in VAN; and put up more pts playing with McDavid or Drai.

    But I dont think you give up a 1st rounder. You coud spend the $5.5 Mil on an FA; which cost 0 assets.

    Zucker just turned 28, so you would get his 28, 29, 30 yr old seasons. My understanding is he is a Plus Skater. So should be fine for 3 years.

  64. Gerta Rauss says:

    The money can’t be overlooked in the Lucic/Neal trade. Katz took on over $9M in money to lubricate this deal, and the Flames, conversely, saved over $9M in the transaction. And, it appears, will get a 3rd round pick out of the deal to boot

  65. Bulging Twine says:

    Will Scouch
    @Scouching
    So by season’s end, we could have nearly two full rounds of players who produce at roughly the rate of a 1st round pick, let alone names in men’s leagues like Raymond, Wallinder (who is 20+ in the SuperElit), Reichel, Peterka, and Niemela.

    This is bonkers.

  66. Munny says:

    Harpers Hair:
    So, here is what I would do.

    Trade the Oilers first round pick plus a D prospect to Minnesota for Jason Zucker.

    He has three seasons left at a $5.5 million cap hit.

    Zucker has a 10 team no trade list and I would wager Edmonton is on it, but he might be persuaded to waive for a chance to play with McDavid.

    Easily a 30 goal scorer on McDavid’s wing.

    Not a bad proposal. I would probably go for it if we could make the pick a 2021 1st. They get their choice of Jones or Lagesson, Kemp, etc. No Bouch, Broberg or Samorukov.

  67. Dustylegnd says:

    jtblack:
    I would Love Zucker on Edm. Hes been a 20 G 50 Pt guy playing with average players.He could do what Millers doing in VAN; and put up more pts playing with McDavid or Drai.

    But I dont think you give up a 1st rounder.You coud spend the $5.5 Mil on an FA; which cost 0 assets.

    Zucker just turned 28, so you would get his 28, 29, 30 yr old seasons.My understanding is he is a Plus Skater. So should be fine for 3 years.

    Valid points, but he is not cheap to pay and there is no way I give up this years 1st for his past performance or lack thereof……do we really believe this lineup can win a cup?….is Koskinen or Smith going to win us 4 rounds never mind allow us to beat any of Boston, Tampa, Washington or Pittsburgh in the final…..timing on giving up assets to make a push is going to be crucial

    I am fairly certain we are not ready for prime time

  68. Harpers Hair says:

    Dustylegnd: Because in the history of the league no 19 or 20 year old pick has ever made a contribution within 2 years….here are players drafted 16th or lower

    2003 draft
    Patrice Bergeron
    Brett Burns
    Cory Perry
    Ryan Getzlaugh
    Zach Parise
    Kessler
    Richards

    2015

    Barzal
    Sebastion Aho
    Chabot
    Boeser
    Konecny
    Beauvillier

    2002 draft.

    Side:
    This is the part of the evening where HH logs off for the night, defeated, where he goes back to the drawing board to prepare for his performance tomorrow night.

    Bergeron…2nd round pick..nobody saw that coming.

    Burns…didn’t blossom for four seasons

    Perry…25 points two years after the draft

    Getzlaf…good out of the box

    Parise spent a year in the AHL and only scored 32 points in his first NHL season

    Kesler spent two years in the AHL and only scored 23 points in his first NHL season

    Richards spent two more seasons in junior and only scored 34 points in his rookie NHL season.

    Didn’t I mention 3-5 years….yes I did.

  69. Munny says:

    Bulging Twine:
    From NHL.com, “The forward has been the subject of trade rumblings because he can become an unrestricted free agent July 1. The Athletic is reporting that the Rangers are looking for a return like the one they got for Kevin Hayes last season ahead of the deadline and months away from the forward becoming an unrestricted free agent. The Rangers traded Hayes to the Winnipeg Jets on Feb. 25 for forward Brendan Lemieux and a first-round pick in the 2019 NHL Draft.”

    There were 3 NY Rangers scouts watching the last game.Were they scouting Dube?A first and Dube? Is that why Dube was back in the lineup?Not sure who else would be similar to last season’s Lemieux.Bennett?Mangiapane?

    Kreider has an NTC… 11 teams, I think. Can probably bet that both the Oilers and Flames are on it. He knows there’s interest in him out east and in his home country. I don’t see him waiving.

  70. Harpers Hair says:

    Munny: Not a bad proposal.I would probably go for it if we could make the pick a 2021 1st.They get their choice of Jones or Lagesson, Kemp, etc.No Bouch, Broberg or Samorukov.

    The thing is…you have to make it attractive to the other team.

    Don’t think moving the pick back another year and offering only marginal D prospects would get it done.

    Numerous teams would beat that deal.

  71. Side says:

    Harpers Hair: 2002 draft.

    Bergeron…2nd round pick..nobody saw that coming.

    Burns…didn’t blossom for four seasons

    Perry…25 points two years after the draft

    Getzlaf…good out of the box

    Parise spent a year in the AHL and only scored 32 points in his first NHL season

    Kesler spent two years in the AHL and only scored 23 points in his first NHL season

    Richards spent two more seasons in junior and only scored 34 points in his rookie NHL season.

    Didn’t I mention 3-5 years….yes I did.

    You did say 3-5 years… and then literally admitted 3 players spent less than 3 – 5 years before they could contribute.

    Yikes.

  72. Woogie63 says:

    who: I should clarify.
    No team is taking Neal without a sweetener, or equally bad contract coming back to the Oilers.
    That’s what happened in the Lucic trade. The Flames were willing to take a slightly worse contract because they felt they needed the toughness.
    I can’t think of anything Neal brings right now that another team covets. Maybe PP scoring but I really think every team has a cheaper net front presence already on their roster.

    Neal has 19 goals that might be valued by a few clubs, he has a bit of reputation as a play-off performer that might be valued as well.

  73. jtblack says:

    Its always great to revsiit drafts and pick the best guys. What about the other picks between 16 – 30

    2003.

    ERIC FEHR
    MARK STUART
    MARC ANTOINE-POULIOT
    ANTHONY STEWART
    JEFF TAMBELLINI
    SHAWN BELLE

    2015 (still time)
    EVGENY SCHEVNILOV
    JOEL ERICKSSON EK
    NICK MERKLEY
    JEREMY ROY

    I think HH’s point is you can trade for Guranteed production today. The cost is possibly giving up a 1st rounder. Who could turn out beetter than the player acquired. But also may never play in the NHL.

  74. Harpers Hair says:

    Side: You did say 3-5 years… and then literally admitted 3 players spent less than 3 – 5 years before they could contribute.

    Yikes.

    Yikes…how many didn’t.

    It’s like playing Russian Roulette when 13 of the 16 chambers have live rounds.

    Blow your brains out if you like.

  75. Harpers Hair says:

    jtblack:
    Its always great to revsiit drafts and pick the best guys. What about the other picks between 16 – 30

    2003.

    ERIC FEHR
    MARK STUART
    MARC ANTOINE-POULIOT
    ANTHONY STEWART
    JEFF TAMBELLINI
    SHAWN BELLE

    2015 (still time)
    EVGENY SCHEVNILOV
    JOEL ERICKSSON EK
    NICK MERKLEY
    JEREMY ROY

    I think HH’s point is you can trade for Guranteed production today. The cost is possibly giving up a 1st rounder.Who could turn out beetter than the player acquired.But also may never play in the NHL.

    It’s all about exploiting market inefficiencies.

    A proven 60 point player with upside is worth far more than a lottery ticket that MIGHT work out in 3-5 year.

    Smart GMs find those guys.

  76. Nit64 says:

    Harpers Hair: It’s like playing Russian Roulette when 13 of the 16 chambers have live rounds.

    O yes. Russian Roulette the game where you wait up to 5 years for somewhere between great and disappointing. Great analogy

  77. Material Elvis says:

    GMB3:
    Did Kasperi Kapanen just get into more trouble for sleeping in than Auston Matthews assaulting a woman?

    Assault? What assault? He walked in front of her in his gitch. Kapanen broke team rules and had to deal with the consequences. He slept in for a noon practice for christsake.

  78. Side says:

    Harpers Hair: Yikes…how many didn’t.

    It’s like playing Russian Roulette when 13 of the 16 chambers have live rounds.

    Blow your brains out if you like.

    Well, except it’s not like that at all.

    Keep trying, you will get it one day.

    “Pick between 20-30 means you are kicking the can down the road 3-5 years from now….

    Except all of those times where that’s not the case…

    But then that makes my trade proposal look not so good…”

    Yikes.

  79. Nit64 says:

    jtblack: I think HH’s point

    We have a vague idea what his point around here is. Good to fill in in for the shy retiring fellow

  80. Side says:

    Harpers Hair: It’s all about exploiting market inefficiencies.

    A proven 60 point player with upside is worth far more than a lottery ticket that MIGHT work out in 3-5 year.

    Smart GMs find those guys.

    Smart GMs get a once 60 point player a few years ago who is 28 years old? And he would give up at least a 1st round pick for that plus a D prospect (is this D prospect also 28 years old? I know how much you love those prospects)

    Yeesh.

  81. Dustylegnd says:

    Harpers Hair: 2002 draft.

    Bergeron…2nd round pick..nobody saw that coming.

    Burns…didn’t blossom for four seasons

    Perry…25 points two years after the draft

    Getzlaf…good out of the box

    Parise spent a year in the AHL and only scored 32 points in his first NHL season

    Kesler spent two years in the AHL and only scored 23 points in his first NHL season

    Richards spent two more seasons in junior and only scored 34 points in his rookie NHL season.

    Didn’t I mention 3-5 years….yes I did.

    Barzal draft plus 2 years 85 points

    Aho draft plus 1 49 points Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Beauvillier draft plus 2 36 points as a very effective 3rd line centre Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Boeser draft plus 2 56 points

    Chabot draft plus 2 25 points on D

    Nobody saw Bergeron coming is not an explanation as to why he put up 39 points in his Rookie year Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Parise spent a year in the AHL and only scored 32 points in his first NHL season Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Did I mention players can be really good in their draft plus 2 years

  82. who says:

    Woogie63: Neal has 19 goals that might be valued by a few clubs, he has a bit of reputation as a play-off performer that might be valued as well.

    The 19 goals he has scored have no value to the acquiring team. The goals he will score moving forward are the only ones they will care about. How many do you think he scores without McDavid? How many even strength goals will he score with his new team?

  83. jtblack says:

    I agree a lot of his points. Especially trading for a proven Top 6 with term.

    IF Edm identifies Zucker or Kapanen as Top 6 targets, they may have to pony up the assets. The next 5 years are PRIME MCDAVID & DRAI years.

    If Ken doesnt want to trade a 1st, he should at least aim higher in FA …

  84. Dustylegnd says:

    Harpers Hair: It’s all about exploiting market inefficiencies.

    A proven 60 point player with upside is worth far more than a lottery ticket that MIGHT work out in 3-5 year.

    Smart GMs find those guys.

    Point production peaks between 23-27 not the late 20’s early 30s

    Zucker is a proven 40 something point player who had a career year in 2017-18, which just happened to be his contract year, and now back to the 40 something point player he is

  85. Genjutsu says:

    GMB3:
    BornInAGretzkyJersey,

    They are absolutely horrible though. I don’t think he really provided any veteran cover

    If you’re going to pick a year to be horrible this would be the year.

    Top 4 pick guaranteed and the best chance at 1 2 and 3.

    They also have 5 picks in the first three rounds . . . So far.

  86. Harpers Hair says:

    Dustylegnd: Barzal draft plus 2 years 85 points

    Aho draft plus 1 49 points Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Beauvillier draft plus 2 36 points as a very effective 3rd line centre Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Boeser draft plus 2 56 points

    Chabot draft plus 2 25 points on D

    Nobody saw Bergeron coming is not an explanation as to why he put up 39 points in his Rookie year Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Parise spent a year in the AHL and only scored 32 points in his first NHL season Zucker had 42 points in 81 games last season

    Did I mention players can be really good in their draft plus 2 years

    Yes it happens.

    It’s more likely that a pick in the 20-30 range spends another year in junior and then a year or two in the AHL.

    But, if you’re a betting man, we’ll see who the Oilers pick and compare how many NHL points he gets compared to JT Miller in the same time frame.

    How much do you want to wager?

  87. Dustylegnd says:

    Harpers Hair: Yes it happens.

    It’s more likely that a pick in the 20-30 range spends another year in junior and then a year or two in the AHL.

    But, if you’re a betting man, we’ll see who the Oilers pick and compare how many NHL points he gets compared to JT Miller in the same time frame.

    How much do you want to wager?

    I trade for a living and there is no way I take your credit risk amigo

    and I thought we were talking about Zucker not JT Miller…jezuz you are something else

  88. GMB3 says:

    Genjutsu,

    Sure. But then he wasn’t providing any veteran cover and hasn’t been the last couple years when they’ve been terrible. If he was attempting to stay competitive, he didn’t do a very good job. I don’t see how Oiler fans can rationalize the terrible contracts he signed with that logic. They would have been much more competitive if he was better at identifying talent.

  89. Woogie63 says:

    who: The 19 goals he has scored have no value to the acquiring team. The goals he will score moving forward are the only ones they will care about. How many do you think he scores without McDavid? How many even strength goals will he score with his new team?

    Interesting and NHL team not interested a 20 goal scorer.

    But- super boring story line- kinda like the we need to trade Shultz, Petry, Eberle crew.

    He is the 3 best goal scorer, the 5th highest point producer on a play-off team -enjoy the entertainment

  90. Material Elvis says:

    Do you own a moving company?

  91. GMB3 says:

    Woogie63,

    Have you ever checked to see how many points he has at even strength?

  92. Material Elvis says:

    Who is correct — nobody wants Neal because of that contract. His 5v5 play has been bad….with McDavid. If Holland can spin some magic and parlay Neal into a better buyout target, then that would be a solid outcome. Next best outcome: buying him out.

  93. who says:

    Woogie63: Interesting and NHL team not interested a 20 goal scorer.

    But- super boring story line- kinda like the we need to trade Shultz, Petry, Eberle crew.

    He is the 3 best goal scorer, the 5th highest point producer on a play-off team -enjoy the entertainment

    Are you comparing Neal to those 3 players?
    If you were an NHL GM would you trade for James Neal? Without making the Oilers give up a sweetener? Or take back a bad contract?
    Or do you just look at his boxscores, see 19 goals, and say “well, he must be good”?

  94. JimmyV1965 says:

    Dustylegnd:
    Jason sucker is 28 years old and has scored over 50 points exactly once…… in 2017/2018

    Now we want to trade a 1st round pick and a prospect for a guy who is being paid $5.5per..for this year and 3 more

    This is the deepest draft since 2015/2003….and we aren’t sure about our 3rd line or our goaltending or our defence….no thanks

    Nailing this draft is how we acquire elite depth, not by trading for 28 year old players with one good season of exceptional scoring numbers

    Zucker has scored 20 goals or more every year but one. Match him up with McDavid and he scores 35. At some point the Oilers have to acquire a winger for McDavid. The alternative is waiting four years and hoping the 20 OV pick pans out. How do you suggest the Oilers get a winger for McDavid?

  95. duct tape and foil says:

    Summer of 21 is the time to either deal Neal with a sweetener to Seattle or cut bait and buy him out losing about $1.9 million cap space for the subsequent 4 years. We dodged a bullet and got some value out of him this season, maybe we can squeak one more year of solid PP production out of him. Would be best if Looch, Sekera and Neal were all off the books together in 3 years.

  96. Woogie63 says:

    who: Are you comparing Neal to those 3 players?
    If you were an NHL GM would you trade for James Neal? Without making the Oilers give up a sweetener? Or take back a bad contract?
    Or do you just look at his boxscores,see 19 goals, and say “well, he must be good”?

    19 goals in the NHL is good, the guy is on track for 25 goals that would be very good..

  97. Woogie63 says:

    GMB3:
    Woogie63,

    Have you ever checked to see how many points he has at even strength?

    A point is point.

    The team has been looking for secondary scoring for years, now you are moving the goalposts…

  98. jp says:

    Bulging Twine:
    From NHL.com, “The forward has been the subject of trade rumblings because he can become an unrestricted free agent July 1. The Athletic is reporting that the Rangers are looking for a return like the one they got for Kevin Hayes last season ahead of the deadline and months away from the forward becoming an unrestricted free agent. The Rangers traded Hayes to the Winnipeg Jets on Feb. 25 for forward Brendan Lemieux and a first-round pick in the 2019 NHL Draft.”

    There were 3 NY Rangers scouts watching the last game.Were they scouting Dube?A first and Dube? Is that why Dube was back in the lineup?Not sure who else would be similar to last season’s Lemieux.Bennett?Mangiapane?

    I know this is about Kreider.

    But what’s Strome going to get as UFA (or deadline for that matter)?. Serious question, I don’t recall it being discussed.

  99. Munny says:

    Harpers Hair: The thing is…you have to make it attractive to the other team.

    Don’t think moving the pick back another year and offering only marginal D prospects would get it done.

    Numerous teams would beat that deal.

    Those are the assets I’m willing to give up. Numerous teams can’t fit Zucker into their cap limit. The Oil would need to trade salary too.

    What I’m not going to do is get into a bidding war for Jason Zucker. I like the player but he’s not without his warts. His passing is not at a first line level. I’m not paying a premium for that. A deferred 1st and a cheap young guaranteed 3rd pairing D is the best you’re going to get from me.

  100. GMB3 says:

    Woogie63: A point is point.

    The team has been looking for secondary scoring for years, now you are moving the goalposts…

    No I’m not. The team has been looking for two outscoring lines for years and a passable bottom six. James Neal is scoring at below replacement levels at 5v5. He’s a drag on McDavids offence. Most his points have come on the PP. most of the game is played at 5v5.

    The team would be far superior with a more effective 5v5 player in his role.

  101. GMB3 says:

    Woogie63: A point is point.

    The team has been looking for secondary scoring for years, now you are moving the goalposts…

    The curious thing is why you think I’d be moving the goalposts. Do you think there’s zero logic behind the idea that he’s a borderline unmovable contract?

    I don’t have a personal vendetta against James Neal. He’s just not value for his contract, and unfortunately the salary cap is a real issue for this team

  102. Abbeef says:

    GMB3,

    Didn’t he just underwear on moon her? Definitely a douchey move, I don’t know about assault.

  103. jp says:

    Harpers Hair:
    But, if you’re a betting man, we’ll see who the Oilers pick and compare how many NHL points he gets compared to JT Miller in the same time frame.

    Yes, it’s the same trade. And there’s a small chance that it could work out like the JT Miller trade has (a ~50 point player becomes an ~80 point player).

    Miller and Zucker’s paths and production have been remarkably similar. It’s difficult to argue though that Zucker would be the superior player at the time of the trade (assuming he were traded this deadline vs Miller last year).

    I also don’t think that Miller’s production this year was the expected outcome. We can’t assume Zucker will likewise blossom into something he’s not currently. It could happen, but it’s not a given.

  104. Munny says:

    The optimum move, if there is a good one out there, is a first line LWer for McDavid.

    I think that’s a move that is best made in the off-season.

    Fortunately we have Benson in the wings (so to speak), Neal, Nygard, Archie, and Gagner who can all play there if its not working with someone else.

    Right now we need bang for our buck. No one offers more bang for so little buck than Ennis. 800k cap hit, 13-17-30, 30 yo, and from Edmonton, so a reasonable chance to sign him as an FA, if it works out. Ennis would be the 4th highest scoring forward on our team. Ahead of both Kassian and Neal.

    Now he’s no long term solution to McDavid’s wing, but you can add him to the list of bandaid names above. What he does provide is secondary scoring, with enough brain and hand and feets to drive some of it. He can play some 2PP and produce. Fill disclosure.. He doesn’t PK.

    But 800k is awfully cheap for a hometown boy. And the acquisition cost should be lower tier.

    Bring. Me. Tyler. Ennis.

  105. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    #Fallopiannews

  106. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – But that’s what happening. Surely Buff is getting paid and both sides benefit

    – Besides as long as both parties agree to terminate the contract: what the owner of a team and a player agree to privately is not the business of the NHL.

    – Buff is helping the team. For sure there is quid pro quo.

    No, that’s not what’s happening – they are agreeing to mutually terminate which would mean that Buff gives up the remaining compensation owned.

    Sure, the team could pay him privately on the side, however, that would be against the league CBA and, if the league ever found out, there would be implications, large implications for the team.

    I don’t’ think Buff is doing this to help the team – I think there are irreconcilable differences.

    Why didn’t the Oil just do this with Pouliot, Gryba, Sekera, etc.? Because its not allowed.

  107. GMB3 says:

    Abbeef:
    GMB3,

    Didn’t he just underwear on moon her?Definitely a douchey move, I don’t know about assault.

    Was a touch of hyperbole, but trying to get into a woman’s locked vehicle can be seen as a threat to her safety and therefore assault. I think, I’m not a lawyer, but as assault is written it could be interpreted in such a way.

    From googling Arizona’s legal definition of assault

    “Simple assaults in Arizona are defined as knowingly or recklessly causing physical injury to another person; or knowingly touching another person with the intent to injure, insult or provoke; or intentionally causing another person to reasonably fear imminent bodily harm.”

    I know people write it off as a drunk rich kid doing drunk rich kid shit, but as someone with a mother and sisters, I know they would be absolutely terrified by that situation.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    Material Elvis: I wouldn’t keep him for the next three years.No way, no how.A buyout saves the team 3.8M next year — use that to improve the roster.

    A buyout this spring has a cap hit for Neal for 6 years – ya, I want that savings but I think its too early for a buy out – buy outs are last resorts in my opinion and we aren’t there with this player yet. Although way overpaid, he’s a serviceable player for next season if he can’t be traded with some retained salary.

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: 6.5 MM, which most here would give him, is solidly 1st pairing money.

    Your characterization of “2nd pair” money isn’t correct.

    Current 1st paring signings are well in excess of $6.5M.

    Lets also not think in terms of stagnation and be future looking – over the course of a 7-8 year contract, where the cap is supposed to go up massively in a few years, this will be well under what top pairing guys sign for and, of course, the key, we are signing him, for term, for his entire prime – no decline years.

  110. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: No team is trading for Neal this summer if they have even 1 scout watching him.
    Even if he scores 30.
    He’s done.

    A team traded for Milan Lucic last summer…….

  111. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: I know this is about Kreider.

    But what’s Strome going to get as UFA (or deadline for that matter)?. Serious question, I don’t recall it being discussed.

    Strome is still an RFA after this season.

  112. v4ance says:

    I just wondering if lost in all this speculation that we haven’t overlooked an internal solution to creating 2 strong lines in the top 6…

    RNH McDavid Kassian
    Benson Drai Yamamoto

    I know the proposed second line is young but it’s still getting the secondary defensive matchups. I know it would be tough to split up the red hot DRY line but if it cools down a little, maybe give McDavid a little vet help?

    On the other hand, maybe take Hrudey’s advice to make RNH the best 3rd line C in the league?

    Archibald McDavid Kassian
    Haas Drai Yama
    Benson RNH Neal

    The 3rd line wouldn’t be fast but that wouldn’t hurt Benson…

  113. Bulging Twine says:

    Darnell Nurse turns 26 today

  114. ArmchairGM says:

    who: No team is trading for Neal this summer if they have even 1 scout watching him.
    Even if he scores 30.
    He’s done.

    How then is he among the team leaders in things like CF%, FF%, xGF% and HDCF%? If he’s so “done” you’d think that would be reflected in his shot metrics.

  115. ArmchairGM says:

    jtblack:
    I would Love Zucker on Edm. Hes been a 20 G 50 Pt guy playing with average players.He could do what Millers doing in VAN; and put up more pts playing with McDavid or Drai.

    But I dont think you give up a 1st rounder.You coud spend the $5.5 Mil on an FA; which cost 0 assets.

    Zucker just turned 28, so you would get his 28, 29, 30 yr old seasons.My understanding is he is a Plus Skater. So should be fine for 3 years.

    I think Holland would prefer to use Puljujarvi in lieu of a 1st round pick.

  116. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: Strome is still an RFA after this season.

    That would explain the lack of talk lol.

  117. knighttown says:

    People try way to hard to win an argument with HH.

    He posted that the trade was a win-win. Vancouver made a solid bet on JT Miller and Tampa couldn’t afford Miller, knew he was good and demanded a first rounder.

    Miller has been terrific. He’s still young and Vancouver may win a division because of it.

    Tampa hasn’t really suffered and turned this asset into a late first rounder in a really deep draft.

    He also pointed out that it was unlikely a player drafted after 15 would score more than Miller in the next 3-5 years.

    Posting the handful of players in the past 20 years who HAVE done it is a really bad response.

    You’re essentially saying “I’d never move a first rounder ever” which is fair. Perhaps you are risk averse and that’s not a bad way to build a team.

    So I can see saying “I personally wouldn’t make that trade” but saying the Canucks regret picking up a 60-80 point, 26 year old who will be a big part of their core for the next 5 years and has sped up their rebuild seems disingenuous.

    Miller is probably pretty similar to RNH and I would suspect if the Oilers could add a second RNH, cost controlled, for the price of a late first they’d do it in a flash.

  118. Lowetide says:

    New for The Athletic: If fast is the new big, the Oilers are trending in a very good direction, with Kailer Yamamoto having an enormous impact.

    https://theathletic.com/1576912/2020/02/04/lowetide-if-fast-is-the-new-big-the-oilers-are-trending-in-a-very-good-direction/

  119. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    OriginalPouzar: No, that’s not what’s happening – they are agreeing to mutually terminate which would mean that Buff gives up the remaining compensation owned.

    Sure, the team could pay him privately on the side, however, that would be against the league CBA and, if the league ever found out, there would be implications, large implications for the team.

    I don’t’ think Buff is doing this to help the team – I think there are irreconcilable differences.

    Why didn’t the Oil just do this with Pouliot, Gryba, Sekera, etc.? Because its not allowed.

    – I think the difference is that all those players continued playing in the NHL, and were paid, and “made” whole by the buy-outs, retained salary, new salaries: they all got paid, no grievances

    – Buff is different: he is legally entitled to $7.6 x 2. And I have the impression that he’s got other demons he’s fighting and certainly won’t get the chance to earn that money (all the other ones did). I figure he’s done int eh NHL.

    – And Buff’s contact is an albatross to the Peg, who need to win now with their core.

    – So yes, it’s “illegal” technically to circumvent the cap. Practically however, my proposed “terminate contract, and owner send $ as a thank-you in the background” makes sense in this scenario.

    – Given its in the interest of all parties, that possibility certainly exists that indeed there was a quid pro quo for Buff’s “termination”

    – Its just business, and winning. Buff is legally entitled to his $, and has a grievance. Doubt he wanted out so bad that he gives up $15.2MM. Anyway of course we won’t know, but i bet this is what happened: given the nature of sport and lack of financial disclosure, and aligned interests

    * there were tweets a few years ago from i believe a Leaf player, who felt he was medically cleared to play, but they didn’t want him to show up for cap reasons: cheating happens all the time. But they shut him down pretty quick when he made those allegations

  120. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: A team traded for Milan Lucic last summer…….

    And the Oilers had to take James Neal and his contract to entice them to do it.
    What’s your point?

  121. who says:

    ArmchairGM: How then is he among the team leaders in things like CF%, FF%, xGF% and HDCF%? If he’s so “done” you’d think that would be reflected in his shot metrics.

    Just watch him play.
    And then come back and tell me how good he is.

  122. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Harpers Hair:
    So, here is what I would do.

    Trade the Oilers first round pick plus a D prospect to Minnesota for Jason Zucker.

    He has three seasons left at a $5.5 million cap hit.

    Zucker has a 10 team no trade list and I would wager Edmonton is on it, but he might be persuaded to waive for a chance to play with McDavid.

    Easily a 30 goal scorer on McDavid’s wing.

    To me that’s a lot to pay for a career .5 PPG player that will be 29 next season and doesn’t have a bargain salary.

    Fine player, not one to pursue that aggressively.

  123. Nit64 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: * there were tweets a few years ago from i believe a Leaf player, who felt he was medically cleared to play, but they didn’t want him to show up for cap reasons: cheating happens all the time. But they shut him down pretty quick when he made those allegations

    Robidas? A bunch of Leafs went down the same route, but that’s the route where the player gets paid by IR. Last night I mentioned other NHL employment. Post IR Pronger ended up with the league, Robidas with the Leafs staff. But secret cash is
    nuts.

  124. Jethro Tull says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: * there were tweets a few years ago from i believe a Leaf player, who felt he was medically cleared to play, but they didn’t want him to show up for cap reasons: cheating happens all the time. But they shut him down pretty quick when he made those allegations

    Joffrey Lupul? More to that story than meets the eye.

  125. Jaxon says:

    I have a made a spreadsheet of Oilers clusters which uses a very generalized theory about when different positions mature. The idea that goalies often take longest and forwards often mature faster as pros.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W9kRR02jI_Hfze-kDH4uRPgQao3QthQKj373RpleDnI/edit?usp=sharing

    Edmonton is very well set up for this year and the following 6 or 7 years depending on who they can keep. But in 21-22 and 22-23 they will be on fire as leading cup contenders. The number of impact players who are entering their “pro”, “prime”, and “young vet” years will be at a high. The only place they may need help as Koskinen ages is in net where most of the goalies in their system may not be mature enough yet to handle a starting position or even backup a team to a cup.

    I think this sheet give s a good visual of prime years in the yellow, orange and red highlights.

    If I get some spare time, I may try to add in final contract years and grey out the numbers after that.

  126. Nit64 says:

    Jethro Tull: Joffrey Lupul? More to that story than meets the eye.

    Lupal called out Robidas Island on Instagram. But again this is about playing games with IR (an option referenced by multiple posters last night) not cash payments in secret.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/joffrey-lupul-calls-leafs-instagram-says-cheat/

    This recap today looks like the dispute was about the Jets pushing him to progress beyond IR. Why would the Jets refuse to use Robidas Island and then go off the map with secret deals.

    https://www.tsn.ca/trade-bait-winnipeg-jets-and-dustin-byfuglien-heading-toward-split-1.1437152

  127. godot10 says:

    Actually 25. Nurse haters gonna hate.

  128. Bulging Twine says:

    oh snap, I guess the website I was looking at had already updated early!

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