Desperadoes waiting for a train

The 2013, 2014 and 2015 drafts featured many traded picks (12 over the three years) but delivered great riches in the first round and three NHL defensemen in 2015’s depth rounds. The 2016 draft was supposed to be the one that stocked all the shelves: The Oilers had their first three picks, plus two extra thirds in which to enrich the system. That was four long years ago, and the Oilers are desperadoes waiting for the train.

THE ATHLETIC!

Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. I am proud to be part of The Athletic. Here are the most recent Oilers stories.

THE 2016 DRAFT

It’s vital for the Oilers to get something from this draft. Nine selections, five inside the top 91, and Tyler Benson’s seven games last year were the extent of overall contributions for the 2016 Edmonton draft.

If Holland can get Jesse Puljujarvi under contract, that’s a win. An immediate result would be (imo) that one of Zack Kassian-Kailer Yamamoto-Josh Archibald-Alex Chiasson would be dealt. My guess is Chiasson. Anyway, JP’s NHLE this season is 82, 16-19-35 which is probably second line production. So the depth chart might in fact be (in terms of points) Yamamoto-Puljujarvi-Kassian-Archibald. That would be a big step forward for the wayward 2016 draft.

Tyler Benson told us more about himself this year, some good, some bad. I’ve mentioned before, some worry about the goals but it’s clear he can play a physical game, win battles and pass the puck like ringing a bell. His NHLE (82, 8-23-31) suggests top-9 forward and maybe the Oilers grab a veteran center like Erik Haula and run Benson with Puljujarvi for a year.

Markus Niemelainen led his Liiga team (Assat) in five on five ice time during 2019-20, and played a lot on the penalty kill. His NHLE (82, 1-4-5) puts him in the Martin Marincin family of shutdown defensemen with very little punch. I’m not sure he has an NHL future, we’ll see him in the AHL when Bakersfield plays again.

Matt Cairns is another big defensive defenseman, just finished his junior season for Cornell. His senior season would be 2020-21, but the whole hockey world is up in the air. I don’t see him being signed based on his current resume.

Filip Berglund was the third rounder I was most interested in on draft weekend. He is signed but had planned to stay one more year in the SEL. Berglund’s NHLE (82, 5-14-19) is the most impressive among the defensemen and his defensive game has improved over time.

Dylan Wells, Graham McPhee, Aapeli Rasanen and Vincent Desharnais appear unlikely to make the grade. Wells is under contract but my guess is he’s dealt in one of those trades where someone from the 50-man gets included to make things even (Angus Redmond).

I can never, ever complain about this draft. No less than six players were on my final list.

Lowetide’s Here comes the sun 2016 draft day ranking: No. 3 Jesse Puljujarvi; No. 34 Tyler Benson; No. 61 Filip Berglund; No. 108 Markus Niemelainen; No. 112 Aapeli Rasanen; No. 145 Matt Cairns.

PRONMAN’S ORGANIZATIONAL LIST

The reason I thought of the 2016 draft when reading Corey’s 2020 organizational piece (it is here) is how little has been accomplished. Now. The 2015 draft experienced a breakout in 2019-20, perhaps Puljujarvi and Benson emerge this coming season and Berglund in 2021-22. Edmonton needs this draft to produce an actual NHL player.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

We hit the airwaves at 10 this morning on TSN1260. Corey Pronman from The Athletic will join us at 10:20 to chat about the Oilers pipeline. His article was very revealing in terms of what he (and some in the industry) feel about the Oilers current prospects. Carlan Gay from NBACanada.com will join us to talk about an historic 24 hours in sports and what we may see today. Frank Seravalli from TSN will pop in at 11 to talk about the NHL’s decision to play yesterday and what we might see today. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. This is going to be a difficult but necessary day.

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118 Responses to "Desperadoes waiting for a train"

  1. Bad Seed says:

    I’ve got to wonder if Pronman has ever watched Broberg play? A 60 grade out of 80 for skating? What am I missing?

  2. Rickety Cricket says:

    LT, curious what on your thoughts about every major sports league in North America taking a pause in solidarity with BLM EXCEPT the NHL?

  3. BONE207 says:

    Rickety Cricket:
    LT, curious what on your thoughts about every major sports league in North America taking a pause in solidarity with BLM EXCEPT the NHL?

    I’m not LT but after reading the demands of the .ca version of blm, they appear to be a criminal organization. Sorry about the politics but the verbiage scares the crap out me. Maybe the Joker is their leader?

  4. Fuge Udvar says:

    I wouldn’t frame it as a pause. The leagues would have played if they had a choice. This was a worker strike.

  5. TheGreatBigMac says:

    Benson-Haula-Puljujarvi, that’s an exciting option would be fun to see it! Come on over JP, the Oilers need you!

  6. Lowetide says:

    Rickety Cricket:
    LT, curious what on your thoughts about every major sports league in North America taking a pause in solidarity with BLM EXCEPT the NHL?

    I’ll lay out my feeling on this issue at 10 on the Lowdown. For obvious reasons, I am keeping that subject away from this comments section. We have proven over and over again in this area of the internet that we cannot carry on a civil conversation on these matters.

    So I will talk about it on the radio. At 10.

  7. doritogrande says:

    I’ve got to wonder if Pronman has ever watched Broberg play? A 60 grade out of 80 for skating? What am I missing?

    The more egregious part of his write-up (and follow-up comments) is him trying to frame and then defend Yamamoto’s 30 for physical game. Does a huge disservice to fans of other teams who read these articles for prospect content that they’re getting discourse on his size rather than his play style. You want to call Yamamoto a 30? That’s only fine if you’re also listing McDavid as a 20.

  8. Elgin R says:

    Bad Seed,

    Pronman thought Benson was spelled Broberg.

  9. Elgin R says:

    Lowetide,

    Thank you LT. There are other forums that people can use to vent about politics and social issues.

  10. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    TheGreatBigMac:
    Benson-Haula-Puljujarvi, that’s an exciting option would be fun to see it!Come on over JP, the Oilers need you!

    A third line built around something like this would be very nice to see…
    With McD shooting pucks off of Nygaard or Ennis’s asses and into the net on Line 1

  11. Jiminey says:

    A little off topic but I heard a song yesterday that reminded me of the old intro to NHL 99. Watched it again, after all these years and it still gives me chills. I’d argue the greatest intro to a hockey game ever! (Although I have not played one in over 10 years) If you have not seen it, check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icolpCy1PbM. A great song (David Bowie) envelops a cinematic masterpiece that builds drama and intensity and just when you think it is over you are hit with a freight train of hockey testosterone!

    My perception may be skewed from the great memories playing the game (lots of late nights and beer as 8 of us completed a full season using different teams). For any of you gamers out there, did they ever make an intro that even comes close to this?

  12. Rondo says:

    Rickety Cricket,

    I would like to see the facts regarding the shooting as no one really knows yet. But as usual it’s politics.

    Jason Whitlock has a good article if you’re interested.

    https://www.outkick.com/career-politicians-who-created-systemic-unfairness-are-playing-lebron-and-his-disciples-for-suckers/

  13. Ryan says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Moving out two of the Oilers top 4D

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/wowza-edmonton-oilers-will-move-out-two-out-of-their-top-4-d-men-nhl-insider-predicts/wcm/efdd650c-bc93-4232-a7c3-42acad0b8f0f/amp/

    The Devil’s in the details.

    Lawton mentions we won’t see two guys who played in the top four next year.

    That would therefore also include Russell.

    If we see Original Pouzar’s “Clean disposition of Russel ” and maybe a shuffling of one of Nurse, Klefbom, or Larsson, that wouldn’t be too earth shattering of a surprise.

  14. Ryan says:

    Ryan,

    Rusell™

  15. Ryan says:

    Ryan:
    Ryan,

    Rusell™

    “Clean disposition of Russell™”

    Third time’s a charm.

  16. Elgin R says:

    A nice article by Pronman which is sure to foster interesting discussions – which is what he wants.

    A review of the 9 teams that have been done so far in the series, yields an interesting points with respect to the defencemen skating scores and size.

    8 d-men were given skating scores of 60 or greater.
    One had a score over 60 – Ferraro (SJS) at 65. He is 5-11/185
    Only two d-men given skating scores of 60 were over 6′ tall. Broberg (Oilers) @ 6-3/203 and Fehervary (Capitals) @ 6-2/200

    Equal skating – most often take the bigger player. You can’t teach size.

  17. JimmyV1965 says:

    doritogrande:
    I’ve got to wonder if Pronman has ever watched Broberg play? A 60 grade out of 80 for skating? What am I missing?

    The more egregious part of his write-up (and follow-up comments) is him trying to frame and then defend Yamamoto’s 30 for physical game. Does a huge disservice to fans of other teams who read these articles for prospect content that they’re getting discourse on his size rather than his play style. You want to call Yamamoto a 30? That’s only fine if you’re also listing McDavid as a 20.

    Ouch!! Yama a 30 for physical game? Not even sure what to say about this. Yama is an infinitely better forechecker than Lucic today. He may not lay out earth shattering hits, which he actually does, but he is constantly forcing the defence to make quick plays because of his relentless pressure. Him and Archibald are probably the two best forecheckers on the team.

  18. Harpers Hair says:

    Ryan: The Devil’s in the details.

    Lawton mentions we won’t see two guys who played in the top four next year.

    That would therefore also include Russell.

    If we see Original Pouzar’s “Clean disposition of Russel ” and maybe a shuffling of one of Nurse, Klefbom, or Larsson, that wouldn’t be too earth shattering of a surprise.

    Perhaps he means Russell…perhaps not but I can certainly see his general point.

    As teams are cap and cash strapped for the next several years, accelerating the the inclusion of younger D at the expense of middling veterans makes a lot of sense if a team has decent prospects that can be counted on to keep their heads above water on the second or third pair while reallocating some of those resources elsewhere in the lineup.

    How much of a drop off would there really be if Bouchard and Broberg were inserted into next years lineup?

    If you keep a grizzled vet at near league minimum (there should be many looking for work next season) as cover for injury, would it make a huge difference?

  19. Fuge Udvar says:

    What about a Boeser for Nurse/Klefbom swap. I know intradivision trades don’t happen often. But Boeser’s name comes up in rumours pretty often. Vancouver could use a defenceman in that age range and they might feel like Toffoli can replace him.

    He would look good on McDavid’s wing.

  20. Harpers Hair says:

    Fuge Udvar:
    What about a Boeser for Nurse/Klefbom swap. I know intradivision trades don’t happen often. But Boeser’s name comes up in rumours pretty often. Vancouver could use a defenceman in that age range and they might feel like Toffoli can replace him.

    He would look good on McDavid’s wing.

    Boeser’s name comes up often in trade speculation on Vancouver sports radio.

    Most often it involves speculation around Boeser being traded to Minnesota for Matt Dumba.

  21. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: Boeser’s name comes up often in trade speculation on Vancouver sports radio.

    Most often it involves speculation around Boeser being traded to Minnesota for Matt Dumba.

    If your trading Nurse you only do it to a eastern team I would bet dollars for doughnuts that Nurse would be Into playing the Oilers every single time for the next 12 years.

  22. jp says:

    TheGreatBigMac:
    Benson-Haula-Puljujarvi, that’s an exciting option would be fun to see it!Come on over JP, the Oilers need you!

    Would love to see something like that!

  23. jp says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: A third line built around something like this would be very nice to see…
    With McD shooting pucks off of Nygaard or Ennis’s asses and into the net on Line 1

    Bringing Ennis back would be a great move IMO.

    Really curious to see what Holland does moving forward. Buyout? Can he pull off a cap dump (or 2)? If he does move 2D does he go young or bring in a big piece? What does he do in G? Or does he just nibble at everything like last summer?

  24. Pretendergast says:

    As per HH’s article:
    “I would not be surprised if some of the veteran d-corp got moved. As a matter of fact I expect, in my opinion, that we won’t see two of the guys next year who played Top 4 this year. I have no knowledge of that. That’s just my opinion.”

    Neat opinion without any knowledge. It’s a fun talking point, not even close to imminent.

  25. OriginalPouzar says:

    The Oilers 2016 draft – first two picks, Jesse Puljujarvi and Tyler Benson – both players have an opportunity to make an impact in the Oilers lineup this season.

    With the Oilers cap issues, these are two players that have an opportunity and an opportunity to provide value contracts.

    Maybe Benson plays 3LW this year but maybe he gets some at bats up top and gels and produces?

    Maybe Puljujarvi signs and plays 3RW this year but maybe he gets some at bats up ton and gels and produces?

    Maybe Puljujarvi does so as a replacement for Chiasson on the roster at $1M plus of a cap savings?

    Maybe Benson does so as a replacement for AA on the roster at a $2M plus of a cap savings?

    In 2021/22, maybe Berglund impacts the lineup, maybe Bear and Bouchard are 1-2 RD and Berglund can come in as 3RD for $3M cap savings on Larsson.

  26. Nix says:

    Rickety Cricket:
    LT, curious what on your thoughts about every major sports league in North America taking a pause in solidarity with BLM EXCEPT the NHL?

    That’s a nice chunk of fully loaded bait right there.

  27. Nix says:

    I dont follow Nashville at all but Jarnkrok was mentioned as a trade option on here yesterday.. Possible RH3C? Does anyone know his availability/general use by the Preds?

  28. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Pretendergast,

    -Benning’s deployment over a number of coaches has always surprised me. When he plays wih better D, it’s almost always in situations where someone was injured

    – He never has had a chance to play big minutes with a Nurse or Klef (or Sek when he was healthy)

    – Maybe he’s maxed out as the 3RHD on a hockey team, but the Oilers don’t know this.

    – He moves puck well, he’s solid, has a great shot. Skating is fine. He’s only 26. Pair him with a good LHD, and he’s a candidate for more minutes IMO.

    – Wish we knew what we had before the likely dumping of a 26 year old RHD entering his prime…

    – Russell and Benning aren’t here next year, book it.

    So we be like:

    Klef-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear
    Jones-Bouchard

    – Which has more “potential”, but more development required than previous D rosters.

    – If Benning had been with a true 2nd pairing with Nurse for instance, or given lots of time with Klef and was capable, there would be different off-season. ,

  29. leadfarmer says:

    Harpers Hair: Boeser’s name comes up often in trade speculation on Vancouver sports radio.

    Most often it involves speculation around Boeser being traded to Minnesota for Matt Dumba.

    But Minnesota wants a center. Hence nothing happening

  30. Reja says:

    Nix: That’s a nice chunk of fully loaded bait right there.

    They should fire the Flames suck-hole Hrudey for inciting a wobble but we all know CBC won’t.

  31. Eh Team says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: Klef-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear
    Jones-Bouchard

    I’d be fine with:
    Nurse-Bear
    Kleboom-Bouchard
    Jones-Benning

    No true #1 D to anchor the defense, but you’re not going to find those guys available and/or be able to afford them. Push Kelf into a more defensive /mentor role and let Bouchard outlet the puck. That would be a much better pairing than Klef-Larsson. Larsson certainly wasn’t a top #4 D last year.

  32. Harpers Hair says:

    leadfarmer: But Minnesota wants a center.Hence nothing happening

    Looks like Khovanov might be that C.

    Almost 2 PPG in the Q.

  33. Wilde says:

    Lowetide: I’ll lay out my feeling on this issue at 10 on the Lowdown. For obvious reasons, I am keeping that subject away from this comments section. We have proven over and over again in this area of the internet that we cannot carry on a civil conversation on these matters.

    So I will talk about it on the radio. At 10.

    Even when I wasn’t here?!

  34. Indy says:

    …Guy Clark…man……thanks LT for that reference.

  35. Harpers Hair says:

    Tonight’s NHL games postponed…tomorrow’s likely too.

  36. Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual says:

    Nix:
    I dont follow Nashville at all but Jarnkrok was mentioned as a trade option on here yesterday.. Possible RH3C? Does anyone know his availability/general use by the Preds?

    He’s generally used on the W but takes some faceoffs last I checked. My aim with suggesting him the other day was actually as a good fit for McDavid as I think he brings a lot of what Nuge brings: great skater, attentive to the defensive side of things, sneaky good wrister, and good brain for the game. That’s on top of being a R shot for the sake of faceoffs and whatnot.

  37. barry.moore23 says:

    Wilde: Even when I wasn’t here?!

    Yeah where the hell have you been ? Hope all is well.

    C’mon Gary, cut the Coyotes a break. It’s rough out here 🙂

  38. who says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Pretendergast,

    -Benning’s deployment over a number of coaches has always surprised me.When he plays wih better D, it’s almost always in situations where someone was injured

    – He never has had a chance to play big minutes with a Nurse or Klef (or Sek when he was healthy)

    – Maybe he’s maxed out as the 3RHD on a hockey team, but the Oilers don’t know this.

    – He moves puck well, he’s solid, has a great shot.Skating is fine.He’s only 26.Pair him with a good LHD, and he’s a candidate for more minutes IMO.

    – Wish we knew what we had before the likely dumping of a 26 year old RHD entering his prime…

    – Russell and Benning aren’t here next year, book it.

    So we be like:

    Klef-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear
    Jones-Bouchard

    – Which has more “potential”, but more development required than previous D rosters.

    – If Benning had been with a true 2nd pairing with Nurse for instance, or given lots of time with Klef and was capable, there would be different off-season.,

    Pretty big stretch to say that Bennings skating is fine. I think that’s his biggest weakness.
    You can really notice it when he goes back on puck retrievals. He has a very choppy, short stride. Legs are pumping, but he’s not covering much ground.

  39. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    who: Pretty big stretch to say that Bennings skating is fine. I think that’s his biggest weakness.
    You can really notice it when he goes back on puck retrievals. He has a very choppy, short stride. Legs are pumping, but he’s not covering much ground.

    – Are you confortable that his peak is the current 3RHD that he plays, or do you think that he ought to be tested along side better D partenrs, a little higher up the order, when the D corps is healthy?

    – Im for sure in the other camp. Getting rid of a 26 year RHD who hasn’t been afforded that opportunity might be a misatake, choppy stride notwithstanding…

  40. who says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Are you confortable that his peak is the current 3RHD that he plays, or do you think that he ought to be tested along side better D partenrs, a little higher up the order, when the D corps is healthy?

    – Im for sure in the other camp.Getting rid of a 26 year RHD who hasn’t been afforded that opportunity might be a misatake, choppy stride notwithstanding…

    I personally think he has maxed out his potential.
    I think he’s already a very smart, competitive player, so it’s hard to see much room for improvement in those areas.
    I think his physical tools are limited. He can’t really make himself bigger, and I doubt his skating, or puck skills, are going to improve much at age 26.

  41. DieHard says:

    Klefbom and Nurse traded for wingers and picks.

    Jones / Lars
    Russell / Bear
    Lags / Benning / Booch

  42. Nix says:

    Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual: He’s generally used on the W but takes some faceoffs last I checked. My aim with suggesting him the other day was actually as a good fit for McDavid as I think he brings a lot of what Nuge brings: great skater, attentive to the defensive side of things, sneaky good wrister, and good brain for the game. That’s on top of being a R shot for the sake of faceoffs and whatnot.

    I gotcha. Just trying to look everywhere for that right shot center…but after all, Strome wasnt built in a day.

  43. Harpers Hair says:

    DieHard:
    Klefbom and Nurse traded for wingers and picks.

    Jones / Lars
    Russell / Bear
    Lags / Benning / Booch

    That would also create cap room to sign a decent backup goaltender.

  44. vinotintazo says:

    DieHard:
    Klefbom and Nurse traded for wingers and picks.

    Jones / Lars
    Russell / Bear
    Lags / Benning / Booch

    1 OA Pick in 2021 Here come the Oilers.

  45. Eh Team says:

    Harpers Hair: That would also create cap room to sign a decent backup goaltender.

    And you would get a lottery pick the next year as an added bonus!

  46. Ryan says:

    Harpers Hair: Perhaps he means Russell…perhaps not but I can certainly see his general point.

    As teams are cap and cash strapped for the next several years, accelerating the the inclusion of younger D at the expense of middling veterans makes a lot of sense if a team has decent prospects that can be counted on to keep their heads above water on the second or third pair while reallocating some of those resources elsewhere in the lineup.

    How much of a drop off would there really be if Bouchard and Broberg were inserted into next years lineup?

    If you keep a grizzled vet at near league minimum (there should be many looking for work next season) as cover for injury, would it make a huge difference?

    Absolutely agree with the premise.

    I’ve long thought that in the interests of cap efficiency, spending very little on the bottom pairing and 4rth line would be ideal.

    Successful teams will spend a surprising amount of money on even a 3C and top four dmen, but you have to cut from somewhere.

    The Oilers unfortunately have a lot of expensive contracts in the bottom six forwards and bottom pairing (Neal, Chiasson, Kassian, and Russell).

    Obviously teams that have the cover of a true number one d would be ideal. It also helps to have impact players on ELCs.

    A bottom pairing of Jones and Bouchard would probably be the most efficient and least expensive.

    I’m not sure where Broberg is at, but he could conceivably play on a bottom pairing in the NHL next year.

    The main issue with moving on from Benning, is that we have no depth at RD.

    I dislike lefty lefty pairings. Dallas has a lot of lefties, but it helps that they have three strong top four options (Lindell, Klingberg, and Heiskenen).

    Moving on from Russell would be a boon.

    Ideally, we could use an upgrade on the current top four, but that’s going to be difficult in a flat covid cap.

    If you could fire Russell’s contract into the sun, you save $3.28m by replacing him with Jones.

    That alone would free up enough money to get a $3.5 to $4m player to centre the third line.

    Certainly in two years, you hope so see both Broberg and Bouchard in the top four.

  47. PokeCheck says:

    Harpers Hair: That would also create cap room to sign a decent backup goaltender.

    It will have to… they’ll be coming off of the bench a lot with that defence. Yikes!

  48. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bad Seed:
    I’ve got to wonder if Pronman has ever watched Broberg play?A 60 grade out of 80 for skating? What am I missing?

    If I remember from reading last night, he had Kailer at 65 and Broberg at 60 and I was surprised.

    Kailer isn’t a burner but he’s get great edges and is quick – a plus skater.

    From the limited amount I’ve seen, Broberg also has plus edges but the Nurse like speed as well.

  49. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: I’ll lay out my feeling on this issue at 10 on the Lowdown. For obvious reasons, I am keeping that subject away from this comments section. We have proven over and over again in this area of the internet that we cannot carry on a civil conversation on these matters.

    So I will talk about it on the radio. At 10.

    and a fantastic job you did at 10 this morning – as expected but bravo at the same time.

  50. Ryan says:

    DieHard:
    Klefbom and Nurse traded for wingers and picks.

    Jones / Lars
    Russell / Bear
    Lags / Benning / Booch

    There would be a lot of possibilities if we had some cover.

    Nurse/ Pietrangelo
    Jones / Bear
    Lags / Booch

    then in two years

    Broberg / Pietrangelo
    Jones / Booch
    Lags / Berglund

  51. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar: and a fantastic job you did at 10 this morning – as expected but bravo at the same time.

    Can we have a rundown for us who don’t have Edmonton radio

  52. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: Ouch!! Yama a 30 for physical game? Not even sure what to say about this. Yama is an infinitely better forechecker than Lucic today. He may not lay out earth shattering hits, which he actually does, but he is constantly forcing the defence to make quick plays because of his relentless pressure. Him and Archibald are probably the two best forecheckers on the team.

    I agree with your assessment and, absolutely, Kailer is a great forechecker – he is relentless, is quick in tight and has a great stick.

    At the same time, I understand where the rating comes from – his success on the forecheck doesn’t come from physicality – he uses his quickness (edges) and his stick and not his body – generally.

    Maybe I’m mis-remembering his style a bit?

    He’s no shrinking violet and he certainly doesn’t shy away from the tough areas but is there much body contact and “physicality”.

    Or, maybe, this is equatable to the “Hemsky is soft” mantra…..

  53. leadfarmer says:

    I see Pronman is counting Sergachev and Macavoy as prospects
    Probably one of the reasons we are so low

  54. Material Elvis says:

    leadfarmer: Can we have a rundown for us who don’t have Edmonton radio

    Get the Lowdown with Lowetide podcast. No commercials.

  55. Harpers Hair says:

    leadfarmer:
    I see Pronman is counting Sergachev and Macavoy as prospects
    Probably one of the reasons we are so low

    Pronman applies the rules to all teams equally.

    The Oilers are where they are because they deserve to be.

  56. Ryan says:

    leadfarmer:
    I see Pronman is counting Sergachev and Macavoy as prospects
    Probably one of the reasons we are so low

    McAvoy, quite a story there.

    #14 OV. then playing in the NHL in draft +2 season. 22 and playing top pair on the Bruins.

    How long has he been playing top pairing?

    Lordy, it’s good to draft like that.

    Bouchard has already had two years of development post draft.

    Lowetide’s right, his time is now.

    Benning is too expensive to be a #7 d, but if they trade him or let him walk, we have no cover for injuries on the right side.

  57. pts2pndr says:

    Bad Seed:
    I’ve got to wonder if Pronman has ever watched Broberg play?A 60 grade out of 80 for skating? What am I missing?

    Eastern bias!

  58. pts2pndr says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Moving out two of the Oilers top 4D

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/wowza-edmonton-oilers-will-move-out-two-out-of-their-top-4-d-men-nhl-insider-predicts/wcm/efdd650c-bc93-4232-a7c3-42acad0b8f0f/amp/

    Typical B.S from the resident troll to cause turmoil and anger. I can’t believe that LT wonders why you are disliked! What you do is bullying and a sad attempt at trying to prove your intellectual superiority. You are a very small man that in our new world get to hide behind technological securities. Sad fact is a ass hole is still an ass hole. Sorry LT seeing myself out now!

  59. housty17 says:

    Rickety Cricket,

    Maybe the NHL does not want to support communism, bro.
    Any person who does not have extreme dissonance and common sense along with some uncensored research can figure out pretty quick this info. It’s easy follow the money.

  60. JOFA says:

    DieHard:
    Klefbom and Nurse traded for wingers and picks.

    Jones / Lars
    Russell / Bear
    Lags / Benning / Booch

    Chia? Is that you? Not on this planet compadre. IF two “veterans” will be leaving, it will be Larsson and Russell. Nurse and Klefbom aren’t going anywhere this year.

  61. housty17 says:

    I give Pooh party a total slide.
    I have FAI and it has been misdiagnosed my whole life. Surgery is the only alternative. It was not like he got bad advice it was the cause was being overlooked. This is tealiveky new. I am going to go on go fund me to get my surgery. I was crushed on the oil rigs.

  62. leadfarmer says:

    Harpers Hair: Pronman applies the rules to all teams equally.

    The Oilers are where they are because they deserve to be.

    Pronmans interesting in what the amount he covers but I don’t find him good at his job
    I called him out on having Pettersson as 9 and Heiskanen 17th best prospect right before they started in the NHL
    He also had Bear and Jones as not worth much and said they would have been Calgary’s 6th best D prospect
    Sergachev has over 200 nhl games and Macavoy is almost there. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone include players with more than 100 gp as prospects

  63. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Material Elvis: Get the Lowdown with Lowetide podcast.No commercials.

    Thanks! I just listened to my first podcast….

    LT, thank you for having the courage and empathy for making the decision for the discussions on your Lowdown with Lowetide show today. There are more important issues in the world than sports. Sports are many things to many people, and are often an escape from some of the harsh realities and suffering that transpires in people’s lives. Sports can provide a mechanism for bringing down barriers and eliminating stereotypes and for sharing the human condition. I don’t have answers to solving the inequalities that are so ingrained in our society, but the change that is required to make this world a better place starts with self-reflection, critical thinking, dialogue and hopefully, ultimately a transcendence to a more tolerant and empathetic humanity.

  64. Munny says:

    I can’t remember exactly how it goes off-hand, but LT used to have a quip about the Oilers off-seasons always being more interesting than their in-seasons (and that not being a good thing).

    There’s a couple of nice storylines this off-season for a pleasant change (two years in a row actually lol).

    If Holland can rescue Pujo from the breeding grounds of Santa’s wagon team, it will be a gift from the heavens, and the culmination of one of the longer running soap operas in Genoa City.

    Make it so.

  65. Munny says:

    housty17: I give Pooh party a total slide.

    My post above is in reply to the above comment.

  66. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: If your trading Nurse you only do it to a eastern team I would bet dollars for doughnuts that Nurse would be Intoplaying the Oilers every single time for the next 12 years.

    If I’m trading Nurse, I’m getting the best return possible no matter where the acquiring team is located.

    If we trade Nurse, we trade his warts with him so, as much as he’d a legit top 4 d-man with legit skills, I would look forward to him leaving the Nuge alone in the Rikki-box to go puck chase, as he does.

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pretendergast:
    As per HH’s article:
    “I would not be surprised if some of the veteran d-corp got moved. As a matter of fact I expect, in my opinion, that we won’t see two of the guys next year who played Top 4 this year. I have no knowledge of that. That’s just my opinion.”

    Neat opinion without any knowledge. It’s a fun talking point, not even close to imminent.

    Absolutely – this is just Lawton’s opinion.

    At the same time, I find Lawton’s weekly spot on O. Now to be a much listen – as a former GM and agent he has many connections and he seems to talk to lots of his connections on a daily basis. I think he has a fairly good sense.

    With that said, I do agree – nothing imminent and, frankly, I’ll be surprised if two of the incumbent top 4 are moved. I would be surprised if either Nurse or Klef are moved. Maybe Larsson but that’s about it and only if Holland has a replacement for his minutes and role.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    Nix:
    I dont follow Nashville at all but Jarnkrok was mentioned as a trade option on here yesterday.. Possible RH3C? Does anyone know his availability/general use by the Preds?

    He has been over 50% in faceoffs over the last number of years and, until this year, seemingly took a full lot as a center. This season, winger amount of faceoffs.

  69. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I don’t think KH is going to move a bunch of D before the next season starts. However, there could be some of the trades being discussed here throughout the season…

    I am hoping he can find a nice new place for KRusty. That is the most impactful move he could (probably) pull off opening up much needed cap space and roster space where there is a proven “better than replacement” player (Jones). Keeping Larsson and Benning to start the year is wise, if either are moved there needs to be a legit RD coming from somewhere outside the organization. I am reasonably confidant that Bouch will move up into a 2RD position within his first NHL season. There will be wobble, but…there always is.

  70. DieHard says:

    JOFA,

    JOFA: Chia? Is that you? Not on this planet compadre. IF two “veterans” will be leaving, it will be Larsson and Russell. Nurse and Klefbom aren’t going anywhere this year.

    Just a thought. Larsson has more value to us than what he returns. I heard he would like to come back. I think at good price. Solidify the right side with others coming. As for Russell, I don’t believe he can be moved (maybe deadline) and he fits sort of well as the 5, 6, 7 D. Nurse and Klefbom may not be moved this year but they eventually will. Jones, Broberg, laggeson, Samorukov on left side. Big, mean and fast.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: I personally think he has maxed out his potential.
    I think he’s already a very smart, competitive player, so it’s hard to see much room for improvement in those areas.
    I think his physical tools are limited. He can’t really make himself bigger, and I doubt his skating, or puck skills, are going to improve much at age 26.

    That may very well be the case but I think he’s shown that he can be a valuable player. Does he have a choppy stride and have to work hard to get back from puck retrievals?

    Sure but the majority of the time he gets there and does the job – as shown by him being a plus guy in every category year after year after year.

    Of course, a big part of that is the comp he faces as a 3rd pairing guy but, for $1.9M and entering his prime years, i think that’s fine value (and I think he may sign for a lower AAV for term – 2-3 years at around $1.75M.

    That’s a value contract in my opinion for what he brings and, frankly, I think he may be able to bring more – his numbers over the years with the likes of Klef are quite good.

    Yes, I know, coaches have hesitated to give him those at bats but that doesn’t mean he can’t get those at bats in the future or that he wouldn’t be able to succeed with them – at least in short fill-in stretches.

    I agree with Kinger, this is not the place to try and save a few hundred grand of cap – if Berglund was over and looking like he is an NHL option then, sure, maybe, but the depth isn’t there for next season – not right now.

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: Can we have a rundown for us who don’t have Edmonton radio

    https://t.co/rgnYla9Nhm?amp=1

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer:
    I see Pronman is counting Sergachev and Macavoy as prospects
    Probably one of the reasons we are so low

    He changed up how he did his rankings because the draft hasn’t happened and the weirdness of the year. It was essentially 22 years old and younger.

  74. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: That may very well be the case but I think he’s shown that he can be a valuable player. Does he have a choppy stride and have to work hard to get back from puck retrievals?

    Sure but the majority of the time he gets there and does the job – as shown by him being a plus guy in every category year after year after year.

    Of course, a big part of that is the comp he faces as a 3rd pairing guy but, for $1.9M and entering his prime years, i think that’s fine value (and I think he may sign for a lower AAV for term – 2-3 years at around $1.75M.

    That’s a value contract in my opinion for what he brings and, frankly, I think he may be able to bring more – his numbers over the years with the likes of Klef are quite good.

    Yes, I know, coaches have hesitated to give him those at bats but that doesn’t mean he can’t get those at bats in the future or that he wouldn’t be able to succeed with them – at least in short fill-in stretches.

    I agree with Kinger, this is not the place to try and save a few hundred grand of cap – if Berglund was over and looking like he is an NHL option then, sure, maybe, but the depth isn’t there for next season – not right now.

    Any proven NHL defenseman is a valuable commodity. Unless he is overpaid.
    Kris Russell is a proven NHL dman, but he is overpaid.
    Matt Benning is now a proven NHL dman. I am not arguing that he is a bad player, but that he is slightly overpaid.
    And more importantly, if Russell is untradeable, Benning is the easiest dman on the roster to replace. And that’s really what this comes down to.
    I think everyone here agrees that Jones will be able to earn a regular spot in the top 6 next year. Bouchard also will probably be ready at some point next year. Somethings got to give.
    If you can’t move Russell, who goes?
    Where do you think Jones and Bouchard should start their careers? The 3rd pairing maybe?
    So why not move the 3rd pairing dman who you probably can trade? Why not trade the guy who has the least upside, outside of Russell, of your potential 3rd pairing pool.
    I think you are getting way too hung up on which way a 3rd pairing dman shoots. And it’s blinding you from the simple, obvious decision.

  75. nelson88 says:

    LT. watched a Netflix documentary you might like called “the battered bastards of baseball” about the Portland Mavericks.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: Any proven NHL defenseman is a valuable commodity. Unless he is overpaid.
    Kris Russell is a proven NHL dman, but he is overpaid.
    Matt Benning is now a proven NHL dman. I am not arguing that he is a bad player, but that he is slightly overpaid.
    And more importantly,if Russell is untradeable, Benning is the easiest dman on the roster to replace. And that’s really what this comes down to.
    I think everyone here agrees that Jones will be able to earn a regular spot in the top 6 next year. Bouchard also will probably be ready at some point next year. Somethings got to give.
    If you can’t move Russell, who goes?
    Where do you think Jones and Bouchard should start their careers? The 3rd pairing maybe?
    So why not move the 3rd pairing dman who you probably can trade? Why not trade the guy who has the least upside, outside of Russell, of your potential 3rd pairing pool.
    I think you are getting way too hung up on which way a 3rd pairing dman shoots. And it’s blinding you from the simple,obvious decision.

    Kris Russell is overpaid, vastly.

    I don’t agree that Matt Benning is overpaid and, if he is, its marginal.

    Your premise is on the inability to trade Russell – that very well may be the case but it very well may not be the case. A “clean disposition of Russell” may be very very hard but, as we saw with Milan Lucic, the moving of an “untradeable” player and contract can indeed be done. Maybe its for Bjugstad or Sutter or another type anchor in a position of need as oppossed to depth but that has value (as we saw with Lucic for Neal).

    Even if its not do-able, I don’t believe that means the Benning is “next guy up” as that is a contract where the player provides value (and I think its likely that his AAV comes in less next years). More importantly, its at a position where there is no NHL depth if he’s moved.

    I do not agree I put too much weight in to which way a d-man shoots. The head coach himself says how much he values lefty-rightie – trying Joel Persson for an elongate stretch before moving a leftie over to the right side.

    Further, I premise not wanting Jones nor Russell on the right side by watching them be less effective on their off-sides, both of them.

    If Rusty can’t be traded, fine, I take the chance on Lagesson getting claimed on waivers and have Rusty as the 4LD.

    I want the cap space. but it is what it is.

    Yup Bouchard and Jones should start on the 3rd pairing and with Bouchard as 4RD going in to camp, I’m confidant he will see plenty of 3RD during the season. With Bouchad as 3RD going in to camp, and there not being a 4RD available, I see Bouchard being forced in to the top 4 quicker than anyone wants.

  77. Solly says:

    1st time poster but long time reader and fan…thank you LT for this. True Oiler fans need it.

    I know it’s daring to toss out a trade proposition with a first time post, but it’s what inspired me to post in the first place so here we go!

    Kris Russell for Braden Holtby…straight up…BEFORE his contract expires this fall?

    We get the rights to talk to Holtby and get a deal done at no more than 4.5 x 3 (preferably 4 x 3), or we walk away and let him go to free agency. We would then get nothing for Kris Russell but we get the much-needed cap room to MacGyver a deal with a higher-tiered UFA and fill the top winger/3C problem? Or maybe to go after Lehner?

    Washington gets a 7D at the cheaper 1.5mil, and they are now getting something for a goalie that is most likely walking anyway. They are in cap trouble and could use cheap contracts….do they need a K. Russell though? That I don’t know. (Kris Russell would hopefully waive the NMC to play in Washington right?)

    IMO we desperately need an elite goalie right now and there are more elite goalies on the market this upcoming year than most. Holtby may not still be elite, but he’s better than both of our goalies right now. Goalies win games for you in the playoffs and Holtby has done a lot of winning in the playoffs. And at the same price tag as Koskinen, 2 years younger than Koskinen, a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, a local boy…why not inquire? They say no…at least we tried and maybe Holtby signs here anyway because he heard we tried to get him.

    Long-winded…and still some intangibles…but my point is clear? Go Get Holtby.

    Please don’t hold back, that’s why we’re all here 🙂

  78. Solly says:

    Awwwwwe man….screwed up my 1st post!

    Edit: Holtby is a…one-time Stanley Cup winner…which is still more than both of our goalies 😉

  79. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: Kris Russell is overpaid, vastly.

    I don’t agree that Matt Benning is overpaid and, if he is, its marginal.

    Your premise is on the inability to trade Russell – that very well may be the case but it very well may not be the case. A “clean disposition of Russell” may be very very hard but, as we saw with Milan Lucic, the moving of an “untradeable” player and contract can indeed be done. Maybe its for Bjugstad or Sutter or another type anchor in a position of need as oppossed to depth but that has value (as we saw with Lucic for Neal).

    Even if its not do-able, I don’t believe that means the Benning is “next guy up” as that is a contract where the player provides value (and I think its likely that his AAV comes in less next years).More importantly, its at a position where there is no NHL depth if he’s moved.

    I do not agree I put too much weight in to which way a d-man shoots. The head coach himself says how much he values lefty-rightie – trying Joel Persson for an elongate stretch before moving a leftie over to the right side.

    Further, I premise not wanting Jones nor Russell on the right side by watching them be less effective on their off-sides, both of them.

    If Rusty can’t be traded, fine, I take the chance on Lagesson getting claimed on waivers and have Rusty as the 4LD.

    I want the cap space. but it is what it is.

    Yup Bouchard and Jones should start on the 3rd pairing and with Bouchard as 4RD going in to camp, I’m confidant he will see plenty of 3RD during the season.With Bouchad as 3RD going in to camp, and there not being a 4RD available, I see Bouchard being forced in to the top 4 quicker than anyone wants.

    If they can trade Russell, and lose that cap hit, great.
    But if they can’t, which dman are you trading? Cause I don’t see them paying Russell 4 million to sit in the press box.
    I also think you are putting way too much emphasis on what the coach said a year ago. I prefer to watch what he does in real time.
    Tippett said he prefers lefty righty pairings, all things being equal. You have taken that as gospel and I’m guessing you agree with the coach.
    And yet, when push comes to shove in the playoffs, who replaces Larsson at 2RD? The lefty shooting Russell. So I guess Tippett really isn’t married to the whole lefty righty thing.
    It keeps coming back to the same simple truth. Barring a Russell trade, or a major shakeup of the defense, Matt Benning is the most likely Oiler dman to be traded.

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    Solly:
    1st time poster but long time reader and fan…thank you LT for this. True Oiler fans need it.

    I know it’s daring to toss out a trade proposition with a first time post, but it’s what inspired me to post in the first place so here we go!

    Kris Russell for Braden Holtby…straight up…BEFORE his contract expires this fall?

    We get the rights to talk to Holtby and get a deal done at no more than 4.5 x 3 (preferably 4 x 3), or we walk away and let him go to free agency. We would then get nothing for Kris Russell but we get the much-needed cap room to MacGyver a deal with a higher-tiered UFA and fill the top winger/3C problem? Or maybe to go after Lehner?

    Washington gets a 7D at the cheaper 1.5mil, and they are now getting something for a goalie that is most likely walking anyway. They are in cap trouble and could use cheap contracts….do they need a K. Russell though? That I don’t know. (Kris Russell would hopefully waive the NMC to play in Washington right?)

    IMO we desperately need an elite goalie right now and there are more elite goalies on the market this upcoming year than most. Holtby may not still be elite, but he’s better than both of our goalies right now. Goalies win games for you in the playoffs and Holtby has done a lot of winning in the playoffs. And at the same price tag as Koskinen, 2 years younger than Koskinen, a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, a local boy…why not inquire? They say no…at least we tried and maybe Holtby signs here anyway because he heard we tried to get him.

    Long-winded…and still some intangibles…but my point is clear? Go Get Holtby.

    Please don’t hold back, that’s why we’re all here

    Russell only costs $1.5M in actual money paid from here on out but his cap hit will still be $4M.

    As you mentioned, Washington is in cap trouble so I don’t see them taking on a 7D for a $4M cap hit.

    Would Russell agree to go to Washington? Not quite Western Canada.

    Also, as far as traditional stats go, Holtby was worse than both our goalies this year, including Smith. He was very poor and has had 3 poor seasons in row.

    I would not give him $4.5M nor 3 years of term.

    I would do this if Holtby was locked in to one year at under $4M – similar to the Lucic/Neal deal – moving the cap around.

    Don’t see the Caps on board with taking on Russell though.

  81. godot10 says:

    Solly:
    1st time poster but long time reader and fan…thank you LT for this. True Oiler fans need it.

    I know it’s daring to toss out a trade proposition with a first time post, but it’s what inspired me to post in the first place so here we go!

    Kris Russell for Braden Holtby…straight up…BEFORE his contract expires this fall?

    We get the rights to talk to Holtby and get a deal done at no more than 4.5 x 3 (preferably 4 x 3), or we walk away and let him go to free agency. We would then get nothing for Kris Russell but we get the much-needed cap room to MacGyver a deal with a higher-tiered UFA and fill the top winger/3C problem? Or maybe to go after Lehner?

    Washington gets a 7D at the cheaper 1.5mil, and they are now getting something for a goalie that is most likely walking anyway. They are in cap trouble and could use cheap contracts….do they need a K. Russell though? That I don’t know. (Kris Russell would hopefully waive the NMC to play in Washington right?)

    IMO we desperately need an elite goalie right now and there are more elite goalies on the market this upcoming year than most. Holtby may not still be elite, but he’s better than both of our goalies right now. Goalies win games for you in the playoffs and Holtby has done a lot of winning in the playoffs. And at the same price tag as Koskinen, 2 years younger than Koskinen, a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, a local boy…why not inquire? They say no…at least we tried and maybe Holtby signs here anyway because he heard we tried to get him.

    Long-winded…and still some intangibles…but my point is clear? Go Get Holtby.

    Please don’t hold back, that’s why we’re all here

    Holtby is done. His will be one of the worst UFA anchors signed this fall. Kris Russell isn’t cheap capwise. $4 million dollar cap hit.

  82. godot10 says:

    No hockey or basketball or baseball on TV tonight. Whats left to watch! -).

  83. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar:

    With that said, I do agree – nothing imminent and, frankly, I’ll be surprised if two of the incumbent top 4 are moved.I would be surprised if either Nurse or Klef are moved. Maybe Larsson but that’s about it and only if Holland has a replacement for his minutes and role.

    I wonder if Krug or someone is coming to town. Via UFA or trade.

  84. Lowetide says:

    Solly:
    1st time poster but long time reader and fan…thank you LT for this. True Oiler fans need it.

    I know it’s daring to toss out a trade proposition with a first time post, but it’s what inspired me to post in the first place so here we go!

    Kris Russell for Braden Holtby…straight up…BEFORE his contract expires this fall?

    We get the rights to talk to Holtby and get a deal done at no more than 4.5 x 3 (preferably 4 x 3), or we walk away and let him go to free agency. We would then get nothing for Kris Russell but we get the much-needed cap room to MacGyver a deal with a higher-tiered UFA and fill the top winger/3C problem? Or maybe to go after Lehner?

    Washington gets a 7D at the cheaper 1.5mil, and they are now getting something for a goalie that is most likely walking anyway. They are in cap trouble and could use cheap contracts….do they need a K. Russell though? That I don’t know. (Kris Russell would hopefully waive the NMC to play in Washington right?)

    IMO we desperately need an elite goalie right now and there are more elite goalies on the market this upcoming year than most. Holtby may not still be elite, but he’s better than both of our goalies right now. Goalies win games for you in the playoffs and Holtby has done a lot of winning in the playoffs. And at the same price tag as Koskinen, 2 years younger than Koskinen, a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, a local boy…why not inquire? They say no…at least we tried and maybe Holtby signs here anyway because he heard we tried to get him.

    Long-winded…and still some intangibles…but my point is clear? Go Get Holtby.

    Please don’t hold back, that’s why we’re all here 🙂

    I think Holland will see Holtby as a viable option for sure, and he should have some good years left. There are other options and I think Holtby’s contract will be too dear for Edmonton.

  85. Harpers Hair says:

    godot10:
    No hockey or basketball or baseball on TV tonight.Whats left to watch! -).

    Well…there’s a President speaking 🙂

  86. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    nelson88:
    LT. watched a Netflix documentary you might like called “the battered bastards of baseball” about the Portland Mavericks.

    I worked in concessions at Civic Stadium as a kid when the Mavericks were playing there. Kurt Russell played 2nd base for a couple of years, mainly because his dad, Bing, owned the team. Kurt didn’t hit much but was a very good athlete, you have to be to not embarrass yourself playing pro ball. I think they may have also been the first pro team to have a female GM (Lanny Moss). Anyways, I have tons of memories from that time and some crazy stories to tell.

  87. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: He has been over 50% in faceoffs over the last number of years and, until this year, seemingly took a full lot as a center.This season, winger amount of faceoffs.

    Well the Preds have Johansen, Bonino and Turris as well so no shame in moving to wing like Nuge.

  88. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    OriginalPouzar: That may very well be the case but I think he’s shown that he can be a valuable player. Does he have a choppy stride and have to work hard to get back from puck retrievals?

    Sure but the majority of the time he gets there and does the job – as shown by him being a plus guy in every category year after year after year.

    Of course, a big part of that is the comp he faces as a 3rd pairing guy but, for $1.9M and entering his prime years, i think that’s fine value (and I think he may sign for a lower AAV for term – 2-3 years at around $1.75M.

    That’s a value contract in my opinion for what he brings and, frankly, I think he may be able to bring more – his numbers over the years with the likes of Klef are quite good.

    Yes, I know, coaches have hesitated to give him those at bats but that doesn’t mean he can’t get those at bats in the future or that he wouldn’t be able to succeed with them – at least in short fill-in stretches.

    I agree with Kinger, this is not the place to try and save a few hundred grand of cap – if Berglund was over and looking like he is an NHL option then, sure, maybe, but the depth isn’t there for next season – not right now.

    Benning at 1.75×2-3 is a very tradable (value) contract.

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: If they can trade Russell, and lose that cap hit, great.
    But if they can’t, which dman are you trading? Cause I don’t see them paying Russell 4 million to sit in the press box.
    I also think you are putting way too much emphasis on what the coach said a year ago. I prefer to watch what he does in real time.
    Tippett said he prefers lefty righty pairings, all things being equal.You have taken that as gospel and I’m guessing you agree with the coach.
    And yet, when push comes to shove in the playoffs, who replaces Larsson at 2RD? The lefty shooting Russell. So I guess Tippett really isn’t married to the whole lefty righty thing.
    It keeps coming back to the same simple truth. Barring a Russell trade, or a major shakeup of the defense, Matt Benning is the most likely Oiler dman to be traded.

    We’ve had this conversation before and we will simply have to disagree. I am hopeful the coach can learn from his mistakes and you think he will continue to do what didn’t work in the past.

    Its also clear you don’t spend the time to read my posts as you asked a question that was expressly answered in the post you were responding to.

    Enjoy the rest of your night.

  90. Solly says:

    Thanks for the input!

    WSH is not Western Canada, but they are a cup contender.

    The actual money and cap hit thing always screws me up, I knew it sounded too good.

    I do agree signing him to a 1 or 2 year is ideal, but I don’t think he wants anything less than 3.

    He has had 3 bad seasons, which is why we might be able to afford him.

    Would you rather pay 4.5mil right now for Holtby or Koskinen? I would take Holtby.

    His traditional stats were worse than Koskinen, and if he falters we still have Koskinen. Still a 1A/1B tandem which is ideal for Koskinen because he plays better when he has true competition.

    We need a goalie now before McD n Drai lose their primes, and Holtby presents good value for 4.5mil. Remember he played in the East where games are generally higher scoring, so the stats may not represent the actual player. Playing in the West might be what he needs to get back to elite levels.

    I do agree with you though, with that cap hit at 4m it’s just a pipe-dream…would you do it for Benning then?

  91. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Solly:
    1st time poster but long time reader and fan…thank you LT for this. True Oiler fans need it.

    I know it’s daring to toss out a trade proposition with a first time post, but it’s what inspired me to post in the first place so here we go!

    Kris Russell for Braden Holtby…straight up…BEFORE his contract expires this fall?

    We get the rights to talk to Holtby and get a deal done at no more than 4.5 x 3 (preferably 4 x 3), or we walk away and let him go to free agency. We would then get nothing for Kris Russell but we get the much-needed cap room to MacGyver a deal with a higher-tiered UFA and fill the top winger/3C problem? Or maybe to go after Lehner?

    Washington gets a 7D at the cheaper 1.5mil, and they are now getting something for a goalie that is most likely walking anyway. They are in cap trouble and could use cheap contracts….do they need a K. Russell though? That I don’t know. (Kris Russell would hopefully waive the NMC to play in Washington right?)

    IMO we desperately need an elite goalie right now and there are more elite goalies on the market this upcoming year than most. Holtby may not still be elite, but he’s better than both of our goalies right now. Goalies win games for you in the playoffs and Holtby has done a lot of winning in the playoffs. And at the same price tag as Koskinen, 2 years younger than Koskinen, a 2-time Stanley Cup winner, a local boy…why not inquire? They say no…at least we tried and maybe Holtby signs here anyway because he heard we tried to get him.

    Long-winded…and still some intangibles…but my point is clear? Go Get Holtby.

    Please don’t hold back, that’s why we’re all here

    I like your idea of trying to move Russell this way…an asset would be nice, but not entirely necessary to get that much cap space right now

  92. Lowetide says:

    Solly:
    Thanks for the input!

    WSH is not Western Canada, but they are a cup contender.

    The actual money and cap hit thing always screws me up, I knew it sounded too good.

    I do agree signing him to a 1 or 2 year is ideal, but I don’t think he wants anything less than 3.

    He has had 3 bad seasons, which is why we might be able to afford him.

    Would you rather pay 4.5mil right now for Holtby or Koskinen? I would take Holtby.

    His traditional stats were worse than Koskinen, and if he falters we still have Koskinen. Still a 1A/1B tandem which is ideal for Koskinen because he plays better when he has true competition.

    We need a goalie now before McD n Drai lose their primes, and Holtby presents good value for 4.5mil. Remember he played in the East where games are generally higher scoring, so the stats may not represent the actual player. Playing in the West might be what he needs to get back to elite levels.

    I do agree with you though, with that cap hit at 4m it’s just a pipe-dream…would you do it for Benning then?

    I don’t think $4.5 million gets you Holtby

  93. jp says:

    Solly,

    If Holtby were willing to take a significant home town discount he wouldn’t be a terrible option. He was quite bad this year and not great the 2 before (terrible for 3 years is definitely a stretch). I definitely wouldn’t break the bank (or give a lot of years) but he’s a decent rebound option.

  94. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: We’ve had this conversation before and we will simply have to disagree.I am hopeful the coach can learn from his mistakes and you think he will continue to do what didn’t work in the past.

    Its also clear you don’t spend the time to read my posts as you asked a question that was expressly answered in the post you were responding to.

    Enjoy the rest of your night.

    Yep.
    We’ve gone round and round on this before. I think you know you’re not going to change my position on this.
    And yet you felt the need to respond to my conversation with another poster. Just couldn’t help yourself I guess.

  95. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    If push comes to shove and KH has to move Benning instead of Russell, the team could buy some time with
    Nurse-Bear
    Klef-Lars
    Russell-Jones

    …if necessary…..i.e., if Bouch isn’t ready for 3RD.

    If Bouch “wins it at camp”, they could run
    Jones-Bouch
    Or
    Klef-Bouch
    Jones-Lars

    The addition of some RD depth in the system would then also be most welcome….and KRusty can eat popcorn until he increases his team trade list…:)

  96. who says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    If push comes to shove and KH has to move Benning instead of Russell, the team could buy some time with
    Nurse-Bear
    Klef-Lars
    Russell-Jones

    …if necessary…..i.e., if Bouch isn’t ready for 3RD.

    If Bouch “wins it at camp”, they could run
    Jones-Bouch
    Or
    Klef-Bouch
    Jones-Lars

    The addition of some RD depth in the system would then also be most welcome….and KRusty can eat popcorn until he increases his team trade list…:)

    Exactly.
    And maybe Bouchard is ready to take someones job by mid-season.
    And I’m guessing Russell becomes easier to trade as you approach the trade deadline.
    Perfect timing.

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Benning at 1.75×2-3 is a very tradable (value) contract.

    As well as a player and contract worth keeping until Berglund is ready to be 4RD…..

    It also takes care of the expansion draft exposure requirement for d-man.

  98. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    who: Exactly.
    And maybe Bouchard is ready to take someones job by mid-season.
    And I’m guessing Russell becomes easier to trade as you approach the trade deadline.
    Perfect timing.

    I would still try very hard to first trade Russell over Benning. 😁

    Thinking of this topic, what fun a Jones-Bouch pairing could be…in a sheltered role to start, but there could be benefits to limiting Lars time to some hard matchups that he is rather uniquely well suited for in terms of Oil RD….

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    Solly:
    Thanks for the input!

    WSH is not Western Canada, but they are a cup contender.

    The actual money and cap hit thing always screws me up, I knew it sounded too good.

    I do agree signing him to a 1 or 2 year is ideal, but I don’t think he wants anything less than 3.

    He has had 3 bad seasons, which is why we might be able to afford him.

    Would you rather pay 4.5mil right now for Holtby or Koskinen? I would take Holtby.

    His traditional stats were worse than Koskinen, and if he falters we still have Koskinen. Still a 1A/1B tandem which is ideal for Koskinen because he plays better when he has true competition.

    We need a goalie now before McD n Drai lose their primes, and Holtby presents good value for 4.5mil. Remember he played in the East where games are generally higher scoring, so the stats may not represent the actual player. Playing in the West might be what he needs to get back to elite levels.

    I do agree with you though, with that cap hit at 4m it’s just a pipe-dream…would you do it for Benning then?

    I do think that Holtby will get paid more than $4M per this summer – based off of name value.

    He’s young enough that he could rebound but he’s been below average for starters three years in a row now and very bad this past season – worse than Smith. Even when he “won the cup”, he wasn’t the team’s starter going in to the playoffs.

    His next contract will be a massive risk if its over $4M with any term and I don’t imagine he comes to Edmonton for a discount.

    As far as “while we still have McDavid and Drai’s primes” – they aren’t even in them yet – sure, they are in their offensive primes but there is lots of growth to expect in the games of each player.

  100. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think $4.5 million gets you Holtby

    I agree – even though he hasn’t even been worth that much the last three regular seasons…..

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: Yep.
    We’ve gone round and round on this before. I think you know you’re not going to change my position on this.
    And yet you felt the need to respond to my conversation with another poster. Just couldn’t help yourself I guess.

    Nothing to do with “helping myself” – i respond to posts, not posters.

  102. Solly says:

    Flat cap, better goalies in the market, weird/uncertain virus year, close to home, bad couple years…all factors that could get us close to that 4.5mil, no?

    Lehner being the best available FA goalie (by consensus), how much is he getting in the fall? 7mil max I think? Not many teams can pay the elite prices this year…I feel like we have an opportunity, this year especially, to get a good goalie at good value.

    Holtby’s salary is 6mil right now, if he’s willing to take a bridge…I don’t think it’s much more than 4.5mil. Maybe 5?

  103. who says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: I would still try very hard to first trade Russell over Benning.

    Thinking of this topic, what fun a Jones-Bouch pairing could be…in a sheltered role to start, but there could be benefits to limiting Lars time to some hard matchups that he is rather uniquely well suited for in terms of Oil RD….

    Absolutely.
    I’m not against trading Russell. But I’m enough of a realist to realize it’s going to be difficult to do.

  104. Lowetide says:

    who: Absolutely.
    I’m not against trading Russell. But I’m enough of a realist to realize it’s going to be difficult to do.

    Trading Russell is possible. Trading Russell without taking back a big contract (eg Mathieu Perreault) is the sticky wicket.

  105. who says:

    Lowetide: Trading Russell is possible. Trading Russell without taking back a big contract (eg Mathieu Perreault) is the sticky wicket.

    Agreed.
    Not at all interested in Perreault for Russell by the way.

  106. Nix says:

    OriginalPouzar: He has been over 50% in faceoffs over the last number of years and, until this year, seemingly took a full lot as a center.This season, winger amount of faceoffs.

    Not sure if you’ll see this at this hour but thanks man.

  107. JimmyV1965 says:

    who: Exactly.
    And maybe Bouchard is ready to take someones job by mid-season.
    And I’m guessing Russell becomes easier to trade as you approach the trade deadline.
    Perfect timing.

    I may be wrong about this, but won’t Russell’s trade value diminish as the season progresses? I think his greatest value is the difference between actual salary and cap hit, and I believe the gap between those shrinks over the course of he season. I might be wrong.

  108. jp says:

    On the Matt Benning stuff, I agree he’s very likely to be moved.

    The coach won’t play him above the 3rd pair and while he’s very good in that role (and theoretically nice cover for injury), if he’s strictly a 3RD his contract is a bit of an overpay. He also (IMO) has some trade value, so regardless of whether Holland moves Russell it makes sense to part ways with Benning.

    I wanted to point out though, Benning has actually had success when given top 4 minutes, and that’s been a fair number of minutes over the past few seasons (much less this year). I’ve posted similar to this before before but have given up since Tippett’s been very clear how he feels about Benning (Bear, Bouchard and Persson all given 2RD ABs in camp over Benning; those guys plus lefty D Russell and Jones getting regular season games at 2RD over Benning).

    But one more (probably last) time, below are Benning’s 5on5 on ice results with Klefbom, Nurse and Russell from 17-18 and 18-19. The key point here is this is post-Sekera injury, so the Oilers employed 6 main D (including Sekera) but Sekera was strictly a 3rd pairing D in those 2 injury recovery seasons.

    That means Benning was the Oilers #5D both of those years and when he played with one of Klefbom/Nurse/Russell it was almost always as an injury replacement and as a top 4 D. So, Benning with:

    Klefbom 577min 23GF-24GA (48.9%) 53.6 xGF% (Klefbom was actually his most common D partner)
    Nurse — 235 min 20GF-10GA (66.7%) 53.1 xGF%
    Russell – 121min 6GF—-4GA (60.0%) 50.0 xGF%

    ——————————————————————
    Total —– 933min 49GF-38GA (56.3%) 53.0 xGF%
    ——————————————————————-

    And for reference the others overall:

    Klefbom 2251min 74GF—102GA (42.1%) 51.4 xGF%
    Nurse — 3105min 132GF-129GA (50.6%) 49.4 xGF%
    Russell- 2559min 96GF—106GA (47.5%) 48.1 xGF%

    The Oilers performed very well when Matt Benning was used as the 2RD.

    Dave Tippett isn’t going to use him there, but he was quite good when given those minutes despite the choppy stride and other shortcomings.

  109. Ryan says:

    JimmyV1965: I may be wrong about this, but won’t Russell’s trade value diminish as the season progresses? I think his greatest value is the difference between actual salary and cap hit, and I believe the gap between those shrinks over the course of he season.I might be wrong.

    I disagree.

    For your assertion to be correct, there would have to be a bidding war among teams struggling to meet the cap floor while short on dollars, who are also not on his NTC.

    Even if he waives to go to Ottawa, you would expect them to charge a premium for cap relief.

    His trade value obviously spikes after his signing bonus is paid.

    By spiking, I mean ‘less negative’ in value. After that, you could see his trade value being even further less negative at the deadline where the impact of his cap is diminished.

  110. who says:

    Ryan: I disagree.

    For your assertion to be correct, there would have to be a bidding war among teams struggling to meet the cap floor while short on dollars, who are also not on his NTC.

    Even if he waives to go to Ottawa, you would expect them to charge a premium for cap relief.

    His trade value obviously spikes after his signing bonus is paid.

    By spiking, I mean ‘less negative’ in value. After that, you could see his trade value being even further less negative at the deadline where the impact of his cap is diminished.

    Yeah, that’s the way I see it.
    The cap hit is always going to be the big negative with Russell. But there’s always going to be teams looking for defensive depth at the deadline who can fit Russell in under their cap for a third of a season. At that point you might even get a small asset for him.
    That’s how we ended up with Mike Green last season.

  111. Lowetide says:

    NEW for The Athletic: How close are the Oilers to deploying two formidable scoring lines?

    https://theathletic.com/2025170/2020/08/28/lowetide-how-close-are-the-oilers-to-deploying-two-formidable-scoring-lines/

  112. OriginalPouzar says:

    Solly:
    Flat cap, better goalies in the market, weird/uncertain virus year, close to home, bad couple years…all factors that could get us close to that 4.5mil, no?

    Lehner being the best available FA goalie (by consensus), how much is he getting in the fall? 7mil max I think? Not many teams can pay the elite prices this year…I feel like we have an opportunity, this year especially, to get a good goalie at good value.

    Holtby’s salary is 6mil right now, if he’s willing to take a bridge…I don’t think it’s much more than 4.5mil. Maybe 5?

    If it was 2017 then, sure, Holtby as that price point sound great.

    The key is that Holtby has had three below average regular seasons in a row – this last one, particularly bad.

    There is nothing to show that he’ll be better than Koksinen, in my opinion.

    While he wasn’t better than Smith this past year, I am confidant he will be but, at the price point I’m sure he’ll require, its a massive, massive risk.

  113. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Trading Russell is possible. Trading Russell without taking back a big contract (eg Mathieu Perreault) is the sticky wicket.

    and this is the likely scenario – a Lucic for Neal type deal but, in this case, anchor contract d-man for anchor contract forward (or maybe goalie if we can convince Arizona of a few things).

    Perrault, Bjugstand, Sutter, Raanta (with another piece added to Rusty), etc. – that’s the type of Russell trade that may be workable and that helps the team and it keeps the right side depth chart that’s needed.

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ryan: I disagree.

    For your assertion to be correct, there would have to be a bidding war among teams struggling to meet the cap floor while short on dollars, who are also not on his NTC.

    Even if he waives to go to Ottawa, you would expect them to charge a premium for cap relief.

    His trade value obviously spikes after his signing bonus is paid.

    By spiking, I mean ‘less negative’ in value. After that, you could see his trade value being even further less negative at the deadline where the impact of his cap is diminished.

    His signing bonus has already been paid – 2020 bonuses that were due in July were paid.

    He is a $1.5M cash outlay from here on out.

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    I don’t think that Russell being tradeable at the deadline is a reasonable factor in this analysis.

    I don’t disagree that he would indeed likely be tradeable at the deadline but I don’t agree that Holland will include that as a positive in his analysis.

    To the extent the Oilers are in a playoff position, there is all but zero chance that Holland will sell any of his d-men, even a depth d-man. In fact, probably the opposite of what he’d do. We saw petty darn clear evidence of how much Holland values depth at D, at all times and going in to the playoffs, this trade deadline with the Green acquisition.

    To the extent that Russell is being moved at the deadline, well, I’m quite confidant that would mean the season has gone very very poorly.

  116. vinotintazo says:

    The only reason you trade Russell is for cap relief before the season starts. Otherwise you keep him for the playoff push in case of injuries, unless we don’t make the playoffs of course.

  117. nelson88 says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: I worked in concessions at Civic Stadium as a kid when the Mavericks were playing there. Kurt Russell played 2nd base for a couple of years, mainly because his dad, Bing, owned the team. Kurt didn’t hit much but was a very good athlete, you have to be to not embarrass yourself playing pro ball. I think they may have also been the first pro team to have a female GM (Lanny Moss). Anyways, I have tons of memories from that time and some crazy stories to tell.

    I bet you do. I was a bit too young to have even heard of them but must have been a great time as certainly a very interesting crew. You should watch the documentary if you haven’t already.

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