Echoes Down the Canyon

by Lowetide

Do you remember some of the things that were written in the comments section of this blog about Kailer Yamamoto last August? He didn’t get into any preseason games and received an advance token to Bakersfield early. I would wager many of you reading this felt the Yamamoto pick had a good chance to be a wasted first rounder. Now. Can we apply that memory with today’s discussion and grow as an online community?

THE ATHLETIC!

Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. I am proud to be part of The Athletic. Here are the most recent Oilers stories.

YAMAMOTO AND EBERLE

As we’ve discussed before, Yamamoto has been ‘in the range’ with Eberle in four of these seasons. I don’t think he’ll have Eberle’s career, but if he spends the 2020’s with 97 or 29 at center, he might outscore him.

The best moment so far in Yamamoto’s career is that Dave Tippett put him on a skill line when he was recalled. That spot should have been Jesse Puljujarvi’s, but the young man was in Finland. Timing is everything. Opportunity missed.

TYLER BENSON VS. RYAN SPOONER

Lots of downbeat verbal about Benson, but his season in Bakersfield had some positives. He led the Condors in points per game, in power-play points and would have exceeded 50 points in a complete season. The left wing depth chart currently (signed or RFA) is Nuge, Athanasiou, Neal, Nygard and Benson. His cap hit, the late audition and a solid summer camp have him in a good spot.

COOPER MARODY VS. DEVIN SHORE

Marody’s career suffered a setback via injuries and we may never see him reach the potential suggested by that rookie AHL season. He did look good in the summer camp and he is a righty who can play center (although I’m not sure the organization sees him as a pivot).

SUMMARY

I expect we’ll see a post this morning that says “Benson will have a great career—in Switzerland!” but I’m hoping we can have a serious conversation about these men and others in the prospect group. Comparable players have enjoyed NHL careers, and the three forwards listed here have some things on their resumes that make them worthy of discussion. Thoughtful posts on the subject appreciated.

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Munny

€√¥£€^$,

The one thing about Demelo is that he is an absolute minute muncher. The minutes however haven’t been especially tough over his career.

€√¥£€^$

BornInAGretzkyJersey: Nobody has any thoughts about the upcoming UFA market of RHD?

I really really really like Demelo. He is in the same class as Chris Tanev, IMO. Not sure what the market will look like, but I figure he would be in the $2-2.5 range on a 2-3 yr deal.

Munny

Gerta Rauss: Yeah, I was a Coburn fan as well

i was too.

Munny

Gerta Rauss,

Ahh, sweet, thank you for reminding me.

I’d say he’s hankering for at least 3. Might be a tough number to hit. Gudas is probably looking for 3 and change too. (I’d love me some Gouda). Both would still be cheaper and healthier than Larsson.

Gerta Rauss

Munny: Question is, how did TB get him to sign for peanuts last time? The same trick is likely to work again. A Finals appearance won’t help.

But who knows maybe he wants a raise, and a chance to live in Canada

His current deal with TB is pro rated so to speak…

His cap hit at the start of the season was $5.1 and change..and then he/Buffalo agreed to terminate in Feb(injuries) and he signed a UFA contract with TB for the remaining games (he played 8 prior to COVID)

It’s a tough call…he could very well be done and be Eric Gryba (I haven’t watched any TB games since the restart)

Or he could be Larsson lite(or better)

Ahh Zach Bogosian… This generation’s Braydon Coburn

LoL

Yeah, I was a Coburn fan as well

Munny

Gerta Rauss: I like Bogosian from your list…

Ahh Zach Bogosian… This generation’s Braydon Coburn.

Question is, how did TB get him to sign for peanuts last time? The same trick is likely to work again. A Finals appearance won’t help.

But who knows maybe he wants a raise, and a chance to live in Canada.

OriginalPouzar

As I mentioned above, NHL contracts are based on a standard form that is attached as an exhibit to the CBA and the form cannot be amended or revised. A “covid-clause” cannot be included.

pts2pndr

BornInAGretzkyJersey:
pts2pndr,

How so?

How does either side stipulate a clause for something nobody can predict?

All I’m talking about is a trend of one or two year deals as players try to ride out the uncertain near-term future then hit the market when things have stabilized again and the cap is rising.

That in and of itself could lend to a buyer’s market and some great deals for talented players.

So perhaps the time to stock up on talent is this year, and in a year or two when things get back to normal and all the short term deals have expired.

I am not sure how contract lawyer’s would word it but it would give the team and or player an opt out of contract invalid if……… could include number of games that would validate the contract. How a grievance to contract would be settled and a myriad of other things.

€√¥£€^$

rickithebear:
4 of the 5 deepest cup core roster theory teams are in the Final 4.
Only one of the top 4 missed. Boston

26 years and counting!

Thanks Ricki!

What would Oilers roster look like if you were GM?

unca miltie

Reja,

i have some memories, many of them wonderful and some not so good. A tremendous number of NHL’ers came through during my time there. A neat story, I was in the press box at the arena in St. Albert during a playoff game with the Fort Mcmurray Oil Barons and Pat Ginnell was there scouting for the Blues.

Reja

unca miltie:
Reja, having spent most of 1968 through 1970 in Flin Flon, I am cheering for the Flyers. Did Kate Smith sing? i missed the start of the game.

Tough town it’s definitely the second home of the Broad Street Bullies.

Gerta Rauss

Munny:
The Nassau Islanders are going to pull it off.

Remind me to never bet against Barry “Cup Whisperer” Trotz or Lucky Lou from Sicily.

Jordan Eberle to Edmonton (e4)

rickithebear

4 of the 5 deepest cup core roster theory teams are in the Final 4.
Only one of the top 4 missed. Boston

26 years and counting!

Munny

The Nassau Islanders are going to pull it off.

Remind me to never bet against Barry “Cup Whisperer” Trotz or Lucky Lou from Sicily.

pts2pndr

Here Kitty Kitty:
BornInAGretzkyJersey,

100% get rid of the anthems at sporting events.

I don’t think that you can totally insulate sports from politics but it would be nice!

Please let it be so. It only makes any kind of sense in the olympics.

jp

Reja: Off topic but I’ll bet a C-Note AA scores $20 if not in Edmonton he will for another team in the league. If he’s injured or the season is shortened or cancelled I lose and will donate it to this wonderful site. If AA against all odds with not much PP 2nd unit last 20-30 seconds pots 20 the person that calls me on the bet donates $200 to this site. I’m unsure if AA penalty killed in Detroit with that speed you would think he was made for it like a Paul Byron or one of my favourite’s Todd marchant. Does anyone know if AA is a effective penalty killer?

It’s a good bet if you’re covering off injury and shortened season. I won’t take it though because I agree with you in spirit, AA is a great bet to hit 20 in a full season, whatever team he plays with.

Gerta Rauss

Gerta Rauss: my bad…ARZ may have paid the bonus already…I was riffing on the comment above that they were “late” and just assumed they hadn’t been paid

@CraigSMorgan – Sep 4
Multiple sources have confirmed that the Coyotes were late on multiple player signing bonuses: OEL ($4M due Sept. 1), Antti Raanta ($2M due Sept. 1), Jason Demers ($1M due Sept. 1), Tyler Steenbergen ($43,750 due on July 15). All have since been paid.

So there’s confirmation that Demers was owed $1M on Tuesday and has been paid

jp

Reja: Off topic but I’ll bet a C-Note AA scores $20 if not in Edmonton he will for another team in the league. If he’s injured or the season is shortened or cancelled I lose and will donate it to this wonderful site. If AA against all odds with not much PP 2nd unit last 20-30 seconds pots 20 the person that calls me on the bet donates $200 to this site. I’m unsure if AA penalty killed in Detroit with that speed you would think he was made for it like a Paul Byron or one of my favourite’s Todd marchant. Does anyone know if AA is a effective penalty killer?

Gerta Rauss

Friedman between periods – Domi has changed agents and relayed that Bergevin stated that Domi
“has not asked for a trade”

I like Domi a lot as an acquisition target, that’ll take some cap voodoo for Kenny to pull that off

pts2pndr

OriginalPouzar: There is a form os SPC attached as an exhibit to the CBA and the CBA provides that the form cannot be amended or revised in any manner.

That is very interesting. It would be interesting to see which would take president in a USA bankruptcy case because as I understand it that would contravene their bankruptcy law as it stands. There is a reason the Americans are much more willing to declare bankruptcy. I will defer to you good sir. May have been changed after the Penguins declaration where a number of players took a big hit.

Gerta Rauss

BornInAGretzkyJersey: ZB showed rather well by proxy in Woodguy’s recent deep dive on J Larsson. Great price point. Plays with an edge. Larsson-lite?

And that’s all I’m looking for if we’re moving out Larsson

We don’t NEED Pietrangelo or Barrie or Paryko, we just need (insert name here) to NOT be a significant step down from the Larsson we’ve seen the last 24 months (good and bad)

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Gerta Rauss,

I don’t know a ton about Gudas, but he’s ornery and seems to show up in the right time/place for a guy who might not be the most fleet of feet. And LT likes him, so that counts for something… right?

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Gerta Rauss,

I liked your suggestion of Demers. Could be a good fit, though I haven’t dug into his fancies recently. All I recall is he didn’t exactly do much better in FLA vs Larsson did here via the numbers, but that was a while ago and I haven’t actually watched much of him play.

My list was strictly UFA players, those available at no asset cost other than current cap space.

ZB showed rather well by proxy in Woodguy’s recent deep dive on J Larsson. Great price point. Plays with an edge. Larsson-lite?

I’d like to know more about both DeMelo and Holzer. I often notice Holzer play well against us.

BoP mentioned Weegar ages ago, but I doubt FLA gives up such a good value contract. Still, worth a look. Although that’s looking into feasible trades, which I haven’t looked into yet.

unca miltie

Here Kitty Kitty,

Wow, i had not heard that. interesting read.

OriginalPouzar

pts2pndr: I think that all new contracts will have a COVID clause.

There is a form os SPC attached as an exhibit to the CBA and the CBA provides that the form cannot be amended or revised in any manner.

pts2pndr

BornInAGretzkyJersey:
pts2pndr,

How so?

How does either side stipulate a clause for something nobody can predict?

All I’m talking about is a trend of one or two year deals as players try to ride out the uncertain near-term future then hit the market when things have stabilized again and the cap is rising.

That in and of itself could lend to a buyer’s market and some great deals for talented players.

So perhaps the time to stock up on talent is this year, and in a year or two when things get back to normal and all the short term deals have expired.

What I foresee is a clause that holds the team not financially liable in the event ………

OriginalPouzar

pts2pndr: That’s not how the U.S bankruptcy laws work. You may want to check that out but your investment profile probably doesn’t have a pro sports franchise in it or you wouldn’t have been quite so cavalier!

The contracts are guaranteed but there isn’t even surety that they get paid in full next season (in full after the holdbacks, deferrals, etc.).

The MOU provides for maintaining the ability of the league to pro rate contracts if a season of less than 82 games are played.

Harpers Hair

pts2pndr: That’s not how the U.S bankruptcy laws work. You may want to check that out but your investment profile probably doesn’t have a pro sports franchise in it or you wouldn’t have been quite so cavalier!

I didn’t say a word about US bankruptcy laws so please enlighten me as how they would work for a league that’s not playing games.

I’ll wait.

Gerta Rauss

BornInAGretzkyJersey,

I’ve always like Gudas as well but it sounds like I can skate faster than him so there’s that LOL

Gerta Rauss

Gerta Rauss: especially if his current team can’t pay him his bonus

my bad…ARZ may have paid the bonus already…I was riffing on the comment above that they were “late” and just assumed they hadn’t been paid

Gerta Rauss

OriginalPouzar: He almost signed in Edmonton so may not be adverse.

especially if his current team can’t pay him his bonus

Gerta Rauss

BornInAGretzkyJersey: Nobody has any thoughts about the upcoming UFA market of RHD?

I mentioned it months ago (the apparent availability of RHD) and subsequently being able to move Larsson as a result

And I alluded to it above with the potential acquisition of Demers

It’s a decent strategy I think…if we’re moving on from Larsson (who I like) and Russell I think the play is to acquire a RHD that can replace Larsson’s minutes (and potentially meet the expansion draft requirements with a 2 year deal) and then move Larsson

I like Bogosian from your list…Peitrangelo and Barrie will be too rich for the Oilers budget

I’d add Tanev to that list as well

OriginalPouzar

JimmyV1965:
Skating is very important, but I think it’s vastly overstated in many cases. Vegas is a very slow team, one of the slowest in the Pacific. But they play with pace and they forecheck relentlessly.They are quick on pucks, which is more a function of anticipation rather than speed.

I agree absolutely with your first sentence. Of course, its important but it seems many think that not having plus skating it all but a death-shot.

Don’t mind me

BornInAGretzkyJersey,

100% get rid of the anthems at sporting events.

I don’t think that you can totally insulate sports from politics but it would be nice!

OriginalPouzar

Gerta Rauss: Demers has a limited NTC as well, so there’s that

He almost signed in Edmonton so may not be adverse.

OriginalPouzar

pts2pndr: If you can’t get a clean disposal of Russel’s contract this definitely opens up possibilities. Problem is the limit no trade clause of Russel.

Russell has been an important Oiler over his 4 years – he has been asked to box above his weight class for much of his time here (2RD) and, for periods, did pretty good (i.e 2016/17 shined by Sekera). He wasn’t great at 2RD for most of his time, although he had his stretches, but imagine if he wasn’t even an option – there was no next man up.

With that said, we knew that contract was going to be a problem and I still can’t believe that a GM could go 0 for 5 – chiarelli lost on:

– AAV
– term
– trade protection
– signing bonus buyout protection

Holland has to find a way out of that last year – clean disposition would be amazing but, if not possible, he’s got to find a way to parlay that contract into an expensive, but useful, piece (Rantta, Bjugstad, Demers, Sutter, etc.).

BornInAGretzkyJersey

BornInAGretzkyJersey,

Exceptions being the Olympics and other national-level best on best tournaments.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Here Kitty Kitty,

It’s high time for the anthems to be done away with at sporting events in general.

Let’s keep politics out of sports (blogs).

BornInAGretzkyJersey

BornInAGretzkyJersey:
Was thinking about some UFA RHD options for next season.

Main criteria are handedness, affordability, TOI/gm, and not a green jacket candidate.

Sami Vatanen – salary a concern
Dylan DeMelo – where the hell did he come from?Likely to be resigned by WPG
Justin Braun – salary a concern
Radko Gudas – salary a concern
Korbinian Holzer – value candidate, always liked his style but likely 5D at best
Trevor van Reimsdyk – salary a concern, likely 5D at best
Zach Bogosian – an interesting option

Actually not a bad year to be shopping for a RHD in the UFA market.Perhaps there is room to move Larsson for a 3C and sign someone for 2RD duties on a 1-3 year contract.

Nobody has any thoughts about the upcoming UFA market of RHD?

Don’t mind me

unca miltie: Did Kate Smith sing?

She’s was a racist so her version of God Bless America will not be played anymore at Flyer games.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2019/04/23/kate-smith-heres-why-her-racist-recordings-are-controversial/3550061002/

pts2pndr

Harpers Hair: Those are reasonable assumptions except for one thing.

The players have guaranteed contracts and will have to be paid no matter what.

They will of course look for any way they can to keep revenue coming in even if it means a compressed schedule with a temporary realignment to minimize travel and expenses.

The only alternative would be folding the tent.

That’s not how the U.S bankruptcy laws work. You may want to check that out but your investment profile probably doesn’t have a pro sports franchise in it or you wouldn’t have been quite so cavalier!

BornInAGretzkyJersey

pts2pndr,

How so?

How does either side stipulate a clause for something nobody can predict?

All I’m talking about is a trend of one or two year deals as players try to ride out the uncertain near-term future then hit the market when things have stabilized again and the cap is rising.

That in and of itself could lend to a buyer’s market and some great deals for talented players.

So perhaps the time to stock up on talent is this year, and in a year or two when things get back to normal and all the short term deals have expired.

OriginalPouzar

Gerta Rauss:
Thoughts on KRusty for Jason Demers..?

The cap hits are a push – hockey acumen aside, the transaction saves ARZ $1.6M in salary

At this point, ARZ might be willing to give him away just to free up money

The you trade Larsson for (insert Oiler requirements here)

I think its about a $1.1M real money savings (Demers is owned $2.6M).

No-brainer for the Oilers but not sure ARI would agree to that downgrade for a million bucks in savings – maybe though – maybe with a low-end sweetener.

That trade would allow the Oilers to move on from Larsson as well – for value (including cap space)- not just for shits and giggles.

Its a good thought.

Halfwise

Munny:
pts2pndr,

We have to have a safe, working vaccine first.This is not a lock.

Vaccines aren’t a slam dunk. I’d be more confident that there will be some kind of preventative that keeps the virus from attaching and entering the body in most people.

Next, get everyone’s Vitamin D levels up and body fat down. Next, keep trying all the treatments and combinations of treatments to find what works, regardless of politics.

Then we will still have to keep high risk people out of mainstream society, including old guys like me.

Small crowds at sporting events are baked into the cake, or maybe no crowds at all. What’s the business model where there are no gate revenues? No concession or parking revenues?

This looks to me like Act I of a business tragedy. Never mind the impairment of development leagues and the like for the longer term.

pts2pndr

Bankruptcy laws are very different in the USA and Canada. How many of you remember the beating that many Pittsburgh players took when they declared bankruptcy?

Harpers Hair

pts2pndr: If we assume that Arizona is in trouble which seems to be the case and the Panthers can’t draw flies and is already getting equalization monies the league is in less than a ideal situation financially. At what point does the league decide that to survive it is in the leagues best interest to contract. I believe that if the forecast uptick in COVID-19 numbers increases this fall there is a good chance that the last NHL hockey we see is this years Covid Cup until a resumption and reset starting the 21/22 season Oct next year. Even given that a vaccine gets on the market in early January of 21, it is very optimistic to expect resumption of NHL hockey with butts in the seats prior to mid March. That is what my logic is behind the contraction and reset. Your idea of icing the best team given the above situation takes on a whole different thought process. I am of the opinion business people are not in the habit of throwing good money after bad.

Those are reasonable assumptions except for one thing.

The players have guaranteed contracts and will have to be paid no matter what.

They will of course look for any way they can to keep revenue coming in even if it means a compressed schedule with a temporary realignment to minimize travel and expenses.

The only alternative would be folding the tent.

pts2pndr

JOFA: The boss doesn’t allow me to bet, but I hope someone takes you up on it. Now if you said Schremp….

My wife vetoed it as well!

pts2pndr

Harpers Hair: A great opportunity for teams that don’t have to

Only if there is a season and revenue stream in. I think you are drinking too much of uncle Donald’s cool aide!

pts2pndr

BornInAGretzkyJersey:
I see it likely that there are a raft of one and two year deals — at slight or greater discounts — this off-season as players wait for team payrolls to increase.

I think that all new contracts will have a COVID clause.

pts2pndr

Munny:
pts2pndr,

We have to have a safe, working vaccine first.This is not a lock.

That’s my thought and once one is developed there is going to be if we are optimistic a three month period to get the required number of people vaccinated and immunity assurance.One of many curses is “may you live in interesting times”.