For those of us who have followed the Oilers farm system for a time (over 40 years of hockeydb pages) this recent little run of success (2017-21) represents real progress. There’s a difference between purchasing the contract of Charles Linglet and recalling a 22-year old drafted prospect from the system. How barren was Edmonton’s system not long ago? Let me tell you.
THE ATHLETIC!
- Lowetide: How hot streaks, shuffles and slumps will determine the fate of the Oilers’ second line in 2021-22
- Jonathan Willis: Evan Bouchard’s evolution, in context
- Lowetide: Zach Hyman’s buzzsaw style makes him an instant Oilers fan favourite
- DNB: Comparing the Oilers’ 5-0-0 start this season to their 5-0-0 start in 2019-20
- Lowetide: Oilers prospect Philip Broberg showing his potential
- Lowetide: Should Jesse Puljujarvi drive his own line for the Oilers in 2021-22?
- New DNB: He’s a one-shot scorer’: Oilers prospect Carter Savoie thriving at DU
- Lowetide: The Oilers finally have an effective third line — so how should they deploy it?
- Jonathan Willis: Success or failure for the Oilers could depend on their Duncan Keith-Cody Ceci tandem
- DNB: Evan Bouchard subscriber Q&A
- Lowetide: First impressions of 2021-22 Oilers — is this strong start sustainable?
- Lowetide: Which Oilers AHL players are most likely to be called up in 2021-22?
- DNB: The Battle of Alberta gets heated
- Lowetide: Evan Bouchard is going to be the Oilers’ secret weapon in 2021-22 — and he’s already showing why
- DNB: How the Oilers’ new-look second line wears down opponents and makes a difference.
- Lowetide: Amazing opening night facts on players, past and present, from Oilers opening night rosters
- DNB: New Oilers forward Zach Hyman may have a higher pay grade, but his style isn’t changing
- Jonathan Willis: Oilers final roster cuts
- Lowetide: How Ken Holland is increasing the Oilers’ talent pool, and why fans are nervous about it
- Lowetide: When will the Edmonton Oilers fully embrace analytics?
- Jonathan Willis: How the 2021-22 Oilers mirror their coach’s best teams from the past
- Lowetide: What might Oilers do if Kailer Yamamoto’s goal scoring slump continues?
ROOKIES 2010-2015
Counting only rookies who spent time in the minors, which means excluding the No. 1 overall picks, Jordan Eberle, Leon Draisaitl and Darnell Nurse, the list of players who played in the minors and then emerged as successful NHL players (100+ games) is not large. Here’s 2010-11 through 2014-15:
- Jeff Petry 743 NHL games
- Oscar Klefbom 378 NHL games
- Tyler Pitlick 291 NHL games
- Chris VandeVelde 278 NHL games
- Jordan Oesterle 252 NHL games
- Martin Marincin 227 NHL games
- Anton Lander 215 NHL games
- Brad Hunt 193 NHL games
- Brandon Davidson 180 NHL games
- Mark Arcobello 139 NHL games
- Iiro Pakarinen 134 NHL games
- Taylor Fedun 127 NHL games
There are 12 names over 100 games, and two men I believe we can correctly identify as true top flight NHL players. That’s over five seasons, and I would suggest that’s a low number. Is it? Let’s look at the next five year segment, an era where there was just one No. 1 overall selection and fewer rookies arriving without minor league time.
ROOKIES 2016-2020
Once again we are looking for players who didn’t go right to the NHL, I am including Jesse Puljujarvi because he spent significant time in Bakersfield year one.
- Jujhar Khaira 263 NHL games
- Jesse Puljujarvi 200 NHL games
- Ethan Bear 138 NHL games
- John Marino 115 NHL games
- Kailer Yamamoto 111 NHL games
- Anton Slepyshev 102 NHL games
- Caleb Jones 93 NHL games
I included Jones because he’ll get there, and I expect there will be enough stragglers (William Lagesson, Tyler Benson) to get this to 10 players. The best in the group is JP, but there’s real quality here and men like Bear, Marino and Jones have or may also play prominent roles. I think the top names in each of these five-year segments represent real quality, but the 2016-20 group has a chance to produce higher levels 3-10. We wait.
The only unique rookie skaters for the 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons? Evan Bouchard (who played a few games as a teenager but did not play in the minors) and Ryan McLeod. I expect we’ll be seeing several more freshmen as this season rolls along.
What does this all mean? I think the lesson here is that when you have so many No. 1 overall picks or close (Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Nuge, Yak, Nurse, Draisaitl) it’s difficult to properly assess and ascend. I believe men like Teemu Hartikainen and Linus Omark had NHL talent, but the Oilers were drafting and then elevating talent like bleep through a goose in those days and suppressed their own talent.
Things did get better 2016 to 2020, and I think we’ll see more than two players spend their careers in prominent roles. I’ll guess Puljujarvi, Bear and Marino but Yamamoto and Jones could as well. If five men land as ‘top flight NHL players’ who are comparable to Petry and Klefbom, that’s real progress. As it is, Puljuarvi is currently on that trajectory in my opinion.
There’s more room to breathe for these kids now. If you’ve watched all of the Condors games this season, then names like Philip Broberg, Markus Niemelainen, Filip Berglund, Raphael Lavoe, Phil Kemp and now Dmitri Samorukov are all playing substantial roles. The farm system will produce plenty of talent in the coming years. Add some of those names to Bouchard and McLeod, and we may be looking at another golden era of Oilers rookies who spent at least some time in the minors.
LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE
At 10 this morning, TSN 1260, we have a really big shoe for you. Steve Lansky from Inside the Truck podcast will talk about the Kyle Beach story and news surrounding it, and we’ll also discuss the emerging battle of Alberta in the Pacific. Matthew Iwanyk will touch base on Point Counterpoint and we’ll have plenty of Oilers chat, too. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!!
I want to linger a moment longer to thank Ryan, who has a far more important real job than me but loves this site enough to spend countless hours to get us to where we are today. I don’t know about the future on this new planet we’re on, but today the nuts and bolts of this blog are humming. Ryan keeps adding my name to the contributions, but in reality he is the man behind what we hope is a wonderful new day for the good ship Lowetide. My sincere thanks to him.
PPS, we lost yesterday’s post, including the comments section. I will post the game numbers for the Flyers game on tomorrow’s blog as part of that post. Apologies to those who lost posts.
NEW for The Athletic: The Oilers, Dave Tippett and the case of the shifting top pair. Click on link for subscription offer!
https://theathletic.com/2917116/2021/10/29/lowetide-what-evan-bouchards-move-up-the-depth-chart-means-for-the-oilers-defensive-pairings-going-forward/
God speed young Mr. Samorukov, god speed. If he can emerge as an NHL player this year it sets up the left defense, with Broberg emerging a year later, for the long term.
Yup – I’ve been saying this for a while now.
Although the Koekkoek/Barrie pairing did well on Wed, I’m not overly comfortable with that pairing on a go-forward, game by game, basis.
It would be HUGE if Samorukov could pick up where he left off and, within a few months, prove to be NHL ready and solidify that 3LD spot. If his skill set (big, aggresive and mean defender – cycle breaker and blue line defender – that can also move the puck and skate) translates to the NHL, it could pair very well with Barrie if Nurse/Bouchard continues to develop and prove to be as spectacular as it projects!
How’s his skating? I think in his draft year I read his backwards skating was better than his forward skating.
Samorukov? He’s a solid skater – he’s not dynamic like Broberg but he skates well for a big guy.
I think its Bouchard that was cited as skating better backward then forward. If I remember, it had to do with some test where he was the best backward skater in the OHL – could be wrong on the details of that though.
That’s mostly correct. He was highly regarded overall and recognized as being the second best skater going backwards (without the puck) amongst his peers.
When taking in account all of the off-ice testing, he came in third.
source: http://sherwin-williamstopprospects.ca/article/chls-top-prospects-showcase-strengths-in-sport-testing-combine
If I recall correctly, the knock on EB at the time of his draft was that he lacked an elite first step and top gear skating forward. He seems to have ameliorated much of those concerns to the point of being trivial.
Backward then forward? or Backward than forward….it makes a difference.
Skating won’t be a problem. Samorukov will be fan favourite in short order. He is physical with requisite amount of nasty. He will be the player other teams least want to play against. He is also skilled and able to join the rush. He will I believe become a very good top four D two way D.
For those that like d-man that deny zone entires aggressively, they’ll love this player.
Disagree. Skating is the one physical tool he needed to improve to get from Junior all the way to the Bigs, IMO. He’s got everything else, since he’s not likely to be relied upon to QB powerplays, or drive offence. If his skating is now at an NHL level, he might make it as high as a second pairing guy in the Ceci role, maybe even a 2D. If it hasn’t improved much since Junior, he will have a tough time getting and holding a 6D job, like Lagesson.
Wish he had gotten into more preseason outings, we’d know a little more… but there’s no rush either and a whole season of Condor games to evaluate him in.
Great prospect. If he pans out–and he’s looking good so far–he will be a key cog for at least one forever.
I would be surprised if Samorukov does not see NHL games this season if he continues to progress (and he looked good this afternoon).
His skating is just fine and won’t be an issue in the NHL, in my opinion.
He has a skill-set that is vastly needed on the current team.
He will be waivers eligible next season and we know teams have inquired in to him in the past.
Whether his skating is fine or not remains to be seen. It was a question at draft age, and till he’s up against NHL comp that question won’t be answered.
We’ll know more when or if he gets a cup of Joe.
He looked real good and with no skating problems in the world juniors playing for Russia. I think he played top pairing. I find it difficult to believe he could have been as effective in the KHL last year if his skating was a problem. There was nothing that I recall that showed his skating to be a problem. His skating is not elite like Broberg but not many bigger D are elite skaters.
Being able to skate well enough at Junior or in the K is not the same as being able to handle NHL speed. That’s a common reason why players aren’t able to make the jump from either level.
I’m not saying he’s a bad skater. But in my viewings and in draft reports, it wasn’t where you’d want it to be to be guaranteed NHL success. He’s had time to improve it. And some can overcome it with big brains, like Ethan Bear.
But the proof is actual NHL comp. Till then, we wait.This is a huge season for Dima. His rookie AHL season wasn’t exactly an up arrow. He’s had a couple injuries since. But by all reports he’s started nicely this season.
Hope we get to seee him against NHL comp later this year and find out how he stacks up (rather than assigning him a future based on his World Jr performance)..
Oilers rising in the Power Rankings (and 10 spots ahead of the “1st place Flames”):
https://theathletic.com/2921266/2021/10/29/nhl-power-rankings-its-scary-season-and-here-are-reasons-to-fear-every-single-team/
Good split today: Condors and 5 and Oilers at 8.
With that said, the Condors’ players were out and about in Vegas last night given the pictures I saw floating around (although the pictures I saw were from Holloway and Broberg, neither of which are permitted in to many places in Vegas…..).
Samorukov’s skating was regarded as a strength by Brock Otten, who is an excellent judge of talent. Here is what he wrote before the draft:
Brock Otten: Up and down year for Samorukov. Started off the year very well, but really hit a wall through the middle of the season, up until the final couple of months. Then he finished the year exceptionally well, including a very strong performance for Russia at the U18’s. This is the type of inconsistency I was talking about in Adam Ruzicka’s write up. When he’s off, Samorukov looks lost on the ice. Turnovers a plenty and a lot of puck chasing defensively. A lot of that can be attributed to the team he played on this year in Guelph though, who struggled as a team with turnovers and consistency in effort. But when he was on, which was the vast majority of the second half, he looked like a legitimate NHL prospect. Samorukov is an excellent skater who showcases a great ability as a puck rusher. But he also has a big point shot, which he was able to really improve the accuracy of later in the year. Defensively, I really like his intensity. Sure, he runs around a little too much sometimes. And sure, his reads could use some work. But, he plays the game hard in his own end and really makes opposing forwards keep their heads up. There’s a lot of potential to develop into a quality two-way defender with Samorukov IMO, and as such I think he’s really worked himself back into the conversation as a 2nd round pick come June
http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/2017/05/my-final-top-50-ohl-players-for-2017_15.html
Forwards and backwards he’s good. Especially backwards. Lateral mobility, edges, pivots are what he needed to work on. As a guy who will make his living standing up at the blue line and protecting the front of the net, such skills are key.
Are you saying that in all the draft reports you read, no one mentioned skating as something to work on? Because that’s not what I recall at all. And I watched a lot of his draft +1 too. He’s definitely not Byram or Hughes or Dahlen or Broberg on skates. Those are “excellent skaters” to use Otten’s term.
Where Dima is compared to NHL forwards driving wide at the blue, for eg, remains to be seen. I’m hoping he’ll be fine, but it’s a question mark till we see him handle it. We’ll know more as he progresses in Bako, and more again on his first cup of coffee. Till then I’m going to avoid promoting him to the varsity roster.
Really wonderful start for Bourgault, Tullio and a few others it seems.
Bourgault is tied for the Q lead in scoring and 2nd in goals (11 9-10-19). More impressive maybe is that he’s well ahead of his linemates Bourque (2020 1st rounder) and Nadeau who were just ahead/behind him scoring wise last year.
Tullio is also having a strong start (10 3-13-16), tied for the OHL lead in assists and tied for 3rd in points.
Petrov is 9-5-5-10 in the OHL too.
Good to great arrows all.
Yup, solid start for Bourgault – about what I would expect.
As the 2nd highest draftee out of the Q last season, I would expect him to be near the top of the league in scoring at 1.5 P/G or so.
He is ahead of the one player drafted ahead of him, Zackary Bolduc who has 13 points in 10 games (although he is a center, or at least listed as a center, and 6 months younger).
I do presume he’ll make the World Junior team but will probably be in a depth role like recent Oilers prospects who made the team (Holloway, Lavoie, even Rodrigue)
Ryan/lt: the login process is much smoother now, thank you. It never used to actually take me to the site after login, was always followed by a somewhat navigation process, where I sometimes “lost” my login!
Bourgault scores the winner half way through the lead.
2G/1A, plus 2 and 4 shots in a 5-4 win.
Tulio with an assist on the PP and even with four shots in a 4-0 win.
I hear Xavier is legally changing his last name to Bourgoal.
Lol… For the life of me I can’t parse this sentence:
“Game?” I think… maybe?
Rick Westhead
@rwesthead
Don Fehr will meet with Oilers players tonight in Vancouver, part of his scheduled fall tour. Some Oilers players talking to their agents about how to frame questions for Fehr in face of allegations. Fehr may face direct questions about whether he should continue to lead union.
5:01 PM · Oct 29, 2021
“Hey Don, why are you still here?”
Bourgault with some nice little hands in tight to deflect in the, then, go-ahead goal. Tied at 2 after 2.
https://twitter.com/Cataractes_Shaw/status/1454242031346331652
Imagine what he will do when he develops his man hands.
maybe get a bit part on seinfeld?
What’s hilarious is reading all the Eichel trade rumours that don’t involve salary going back to the Sabres. Including by the resident Site Idiot.
Yeah Sabres have clearly said no retention and no salary dumps. So clearly going to Vegas right?
Yeah, VGK seems impossible.
I don’t really see any team pulling it off outside of Anaheim or Columbus. But those are two teams that like the draft and have internal caps. Detroit maybe, they have space, but no one to send the other way.
Maybe CHI if BUF wanted Toews and CHI was willing to sacrifice the picks. Two big ifs…
And then of course there’s the question of how much future a team with space will give up because of the surgery risk.
$50 million dead dollars–actual dollars–is not something ANA can handle.
the surgery will probably be ok.
just don’t see Vegas or Avs being able to make this work cap wise.
Vegas has no cap space and Bill Karlssons contract is too long to have interest and doesn’t solve enough cap problems as still almost 4 mil difference
Avs already have issues with forward depth and adding 10 mil for a forward is not advisable at this point. Even if you get someone to take Johnson
Calgary has no cap space. Monahan backlund Lucic have mntc. Don’t see that as an option
How probable does probably have to be for a cash-strapped team to pay cheap futures?
Ryan, are some features of wpDiscuz turned off?
Good Gord the Hawks are a terrible team. Keith wasn’t the problem there. Getting steamrolled by Carolina 4-2 … in the 1st. Seth is a -1 only, so there’s that.
Did I miss the play by play of the LA Kings game last night?
I assumed Danault must not have been playing as:
1) Kopitar had zero points and only 1 shot and we know he’d light up the league with Danault taking on the tougher minutes
2) Kopitar was 0-3 goals (two at 5 on 5) which wouldn’t happen if Danault was in the lineup taking on those tough minute
Danault did play…. weird.
You could always fire up a Kings blog OP😉
For a little while there, I though this was one…..
Has OP written off Lavoie completely, or just mostly?
I’m just “reporting” what I see when I watch these games and, aside from the odd-shift, he’s been a non-factor for entirety of the season so far.
Wow. Just read the Westhead article on TSN. Not sure how Fehr can come out of this unscathed.
The Mayor (@mayorNHL) Tweeted:
Hearing Vegas and Buffalo are getting close on an Eichel deal. Let’s see if Anaheim re-engages.
Side note… Ducks moving Rakell to IR.
https://twitter.com/mayorNHL/status/1454189536079056902?s=20
That would be exciting. Three of the league’s premier offensive talents in the same division. I wonder what contracts Vegas would ship out?
In looking at their cap situation, I wonder if William Karlsson might be the major player to move along with perhaps a couple of first round picks and a prospect.
I would imagine Buffalo will want Peyton Krebs but Vegas is reportedly balking at that.
Pacific Division Podcast (@Pacific_NHL) Tweeted:
Heard from a very well placed source, That Jack Eichel to the @GoldenKnights is at the 1 yard line. Krebs, Tuch, another player and 2 picks are heading to the @BuffaloSabres #VegasBorn Clearly injury issues with Tuch and Eichel. Eichel Stone and Patches line will be sick!!!
https://twitter.com/Pacific_NHL/status/1454207235224006657?s=20
Why are you posting a tweet from an account with 18 followers?
You were saying multiple times before that Calgary was the front runner for Eichel. What changed?
@NHL_Watcher
·
3h
Friedman on TJMS is asked if we’re any closer to an Jack Eichel trade: “We are, I think there’s real work being done to try and facilitate a trade. I do think Buffalo and Vegas are talking very seriously
More:
https://vegashockeynow.com/2021/10/29/vegas-golden-knights-trade-sources-jack-eichel-serious-talks-kelly-mcrimmon/
“Later Friday afternoon, multiple sources close to the situation who have kept Hockey Now in the loop for months confirmed to VHN that Golden Knights trade talks were indeed underway. However, one league source cautioned that the Golden Knights have competition.
“Don’t sleep on Calgary or Colorado,” the source said.”
Colorado would pay the moon but Buffalo will not retain
Holland was in the building and spoke to Ryan Holt after the 2nd period:
Asked about Broberg: He’s improtant down here: He’s on the PP, the PK, playing in key situations – development is important and he wouldn’t be doing that in Edmonton. Talked about Bouchard’s development. “We’ll see where things are in the 2nd half of the year but I think he’s in a great spot – coaches feel he’s getting better every game”. His confidence is growing and I think he’s getting more comfortable with pro hockey every game.
Asked about goaltending depth in the org: Certainly Stu Skinner, this is a big year for him. Next year is a waiver year for him. Hope is when we make plans in the off-season, he’ll be a part of our team. In his 2nd year, he went down to Wichita for a few games and last year he was one of the best in the AHL. Had a great preseason this year. Now he’s up – Mike Smith isn’t far away so Stu will be back soon. We look for him to play lots of games and hopefully grow in to an NHL goaltender. Konovalov has been very good in the KHL – now making the adjustment to pro hockey. This is the greatest development league in the world for playing in the NHL.
Asked about Woodcroft (and Manson): Known Jay W. since he was a video coach in Detroit. He’s paid his due. He’s now running his own team. With Manson, look at the young D and how they’ve developed (Bouch, Bear, Jones). At some point Jay W is going to be an NHL coach. He’s building his resume. He’s an NHL coach in the making, needs to continue to build his resume.
So, Rodrigue with a poor performance on the heels of a poor Mikko performance (Condors win despite Rodrigue letting in two bad goals on 12 shots).
On the other hand, both Broberg and Samorukov was excellent in today’s game.
That’s some serious shot suppression. Are they that bad or are we that good? I don’t really trust such early starts…
They’ve added Samorukov and Lagesson to their d-group in the last 2 and 3 games…… that helps.
Add that to Niemelainen (who is very good at the AHL level), an experienced buy like Berglund and a young skilled prospect like Broberg and that defence is really good. Not to mention Deharnais is a very good AHL defender and Kesselring and Kemp, while raw have real attributes.
Also, the veterans Cracknell, Griffith and Schaller are really really good AHL players and, while I think Malone is startig to slow down (although the older Cracknell isn’t) he is also very good.
Add some younger skill in McLeod and Benson and this team is very good. I’d add Lavoie to it but, he hasn’t been doing much.
Wait until they add Holloway!
Whoa, Rodrigue with a big save an a quick strike 2 on 1 (after a Niemelaien giveaway) – glove save (although it almost looked like he made it by accident).
Condors come down the ice, dump it in, veterans cause a turnover get puck retrieval, work it back to the point, Sammy walks in to the top of the right circle and rips home the winner with 5 second left.
Broberg steps up while shorthanded to defend a one entry – success and he feeds Malone for a breakaway, actually a two on zero and, boom, the Condors take the 2-1 lead with 5 minutes left in the 3rd.
Beautiful play by Broberg – he has been VERY good from what I’ve seen (about half the game).
Shots are 40-11 and Henderson has no shots in the 3rd.
OK, check that, Henderson scores on their first shot of the period, on the next shift.
Rodrigues with a terrible rebound on an easy point shot and the rebound is buried.
12 shots on Rodrigue and two awful goals against.
2-2.
Broberg starting to make one or two of those rushes that we saw overseas every game.
He just picked up the puck on his backhand behind the Condor net, rushed up the right side (gliding with ease), gained entry (1 on 3), made a dangle to get around one guy and cut in of the right side for a shot on net – just a grade B chance in the end by these rushes are mezmorizing.
Condors are just dominating this game. Half way through the 3rd period and Henderson hasn’t really touched the puck all period.
Shots are currently 35-11 but the score is 1-1
Of note, Kesselring back in today and Kemp getting the game off.
Happy new War on Drugs album day everyone! Hit the road and put it on repeat
man, this record… 3rd spin through and I think it’s moved into my #2 in their discography already. I love this band so much. Wouldn’t be the least bit surprising if it ends up as my AotY, but obviously I need more time with it. Between this record and the new Parquet Courts album that dropped last week, I’m a pretty happy Sheps. Love seeing your comments over on Stereogum, too!
That said, I have a feeling that my list this year won’t be as comprehensive or interesting as the last decade’s worth of lists. I did something terrible and fell down a seemingly never-ending grateful dead rabbit hole, trying to figure out which year was their best. I’ve been at it for nearly a calendar year now and I’m no closer to having an answer – though I can sure tell anyone who wants to listen what years were their absolute worst (86 and basically anything after Sept. 92). We’ll see how the list shakes out this year, 2 months to go and I’ll probably shake myself out of this deadhead haze eventually… probably… maybe…
If you enjoy the Grateful Dead, would it be safe to assume you also enjoy Phish?
That would be an incorrect assumption. I have many close pals who love them. I’ve even been to a couple shows, but I don’t get the appeal at all. They irritate me more than just about any band on the planet.
good stuff! I can just never get into Parquet Courts. They’ve branched out a bit on the new one and I feel like there’s a few songs that get really close to get, but it mostly comes across as “meh” for me.
Totally get that. There’s something kind of flat and off-putting about both A. Savage and Austin Brown’s voices, and that flatness kills their appeal for lots of people whose taste in music I really respect. The new one does veer off into some unexpected places, Can and Neu in particular, which is not the vibe I ever expected from the scrappy punks that put out ‘stoned and starving’ 10 years ago.
Thank you for the heads up!
+1. Love WoD!
Everytime I look up, Samorukov is eliminating an opponent trying to come across the blueline……
I missed the Marody goal (but I believe it was a rebound of a Malone shot).
1-1 as we start the 3rd – Condors with a massive shot advantage (as they had last game) – only the first shot let in by Rodrigue (a weak goal) – he’s stopped the next 10.
Full practice for Smith today. He will be with the team in Vancouver and his status for the game tomorrow will be determined in the morning.
Condors fail to score on a PP then, as the puck goes down, Lavoie muscled off the puck in open ice and the Henderson player that out-battled him wrists one past Rodrigue for a 1-0 lead.
Not great on Rodrigue.
Not great on Lavoie – at all.
Of note, Ken Holland to join Ryan Holt in the 2nd intermission although, as of now, the audio isn’t working on AHL TV.
Thanks for the updates
Rodrigue with the start this afternoon.
Interesting, first weekend, Skinner start both ends of the back to back. Since Skinner got called up, Konovalov and Rodrigue have split.
If Smith isn’t ready I go back with Mikko if the first goal he lets in is weak ass I yank him. I also insert someone in Yamo’s spot and see if the 2nd line can show a heartbeat and score.
https://twitter.com/NHLJets/status/1454131331210825738/photo/1
Pathetic.
Shame on him, the Jets, and the NHL.
Of all the management people involved his story that he was only in the meeting to report on what he knew, I find to be the most believable.
And yet, he was also involved with Akim Aliu, and I find it difficult to separate the incidents.
“Aliu noted Cheveldayoff was a former Blackhawks assistant GM and oversaw the Rockford team when the Peters’ confrontation occurred. Aliu said he hoped to clear the air with Cheveldayoff as the Jets opened their first training camp.
“We go in his office and talk, and I go:
Chevy, whatever happened in Chicago happened. What can I do to prove to you that I can help your organization,'" Aliu said. "And he said,Nothing. We don’t have any plans for you whatsoever.'”I saw this yesterday. I must have missed it when the Aliu story was reported originally. Awful. Just awful.
OK….how many should be fired over this? Lower staff? Administrative assistants? Team Captains? Other players? Reporters? Employees at the Blackhawks’ ISP?
Once we start disciplining people for crimes of omission (rather than crimes of commission), we have to be able to draw a line somewhere. Otherwise it becomes like a war that can go on forever, even if it’s a just war. (Maybe compare to Afghanistan?)
I can’t believe I am quoting Gary Bettman, but “while on some level, it would be easiest to paint everyone with any association to this terrible matter with the same broad brush, I believe that fundamental fairness requires a more in-depth analysis of the role of each person.”
Obviously I agree that there needs to be some accountability for this kind of thing, to ensure that it doesn’t happen again. The firing of Bowman and Quenneville sends a pretty clear message already. But plenty of righteous causes become radicalized and turn into witch-hunting crusades. (Is Al Franken really in the same category as Harvey Weinstein?) I would hate for this worthwhile cause to end up discredited as a result of painting everyone with the same broad brush.
Surely, you can draw the line at the people who were in the room?
Saying that an Assistant GM isn’t part of the senior leadership (as per Bettman) is ridiculous. He knew, and even if a more senior employee said that they would handle things, he still had a duty to protect his players, but chose to do nothing when:
. Aldrich continued to show up at the arena
. Travelled with the team on the road
. Was present at Stanley Cup celebrations
. When the team ordered the guy a ring
. When the team let him have the Cup for a day
. When he then was hired at Hockey USA
And then HE LIED all this past summer whenever he was asked about it as more and more smoke filled the room.
He, and everyone else in that room, felt the Kyle Beach was expendable because he was only a rookie and a call-up. If Aldrich had done this to Patrick Kane, the guy would have mysteriously been found face down in one of Chicago’s canals.
By those standards any player from that team still in the league should have their contracts terminated and be barred from the league until they talk to Gary about returning as is the standard set. Also all Blackhawks employees with any knowledge of the issue should also be terminated and barred from the league.
As for the owners, a small fine (relatively) seems light. A more severe and impactful fine, or perhaps even better in fairness they should be forced to sell the team. I’m sure there are other people I’ve missed that could have some sort of culpability.
That probably seems like a lot to many, but it’s either that to follow through completely, or leave it at what has happened. It’s either choose the most responsible or choose them all. Or more harm is created through unfairness, which seems at odds with the point of it all.
Of course then the Pens issue needs to be dealt with as well in a similar fashion.
I don’t get this whole witch hunt thing. It sounds like he was the most junior member of the leadership group at that meeting, and he left the team three weeks later. Maybe there’s more to it, I don’t know, but if feels kinda creepy to assign levels of culpability to people when we really don’t know the circumstances. I also don’t know why it took 10 years to bring justice for the young man. How does that happen?
I don’t get it either, that was the point of my comment. It is finally being dealt with after being swept under the rug. That used to work, I think we have moved past that point as societies in NA, thankfully. At least for this type of transgression.
Still miles to go, but as the younger folks are growing up in a different world than some of us older folks, if it comes to light it won’t stand anymore.
The NHL remains a dinosaur, but at least Gary has enough sense that this one wasn’t going away, and the Pen’s one probably won’t either now. The writing is on the wall if they want to grow the game and retain younger fans.
I also am not in agreement with scorched earth and pitchforks. Or expecting too much from those not really in a place to affect outcomes or without direct responsibility. More heroic measures would have been nice from more people, but…
Beach was part of the team and not part of the team (taxi squad) how many players new him personally. This was during a major push for the cup. I would say the story was floating around the dressing room about Aldrich and his presence of sexual partners even before the Beach incident. I’m sure Beach being the new guy knew none of this and he was doing everything possible to make everyone happy and better himself as a player. Aldrich will stick to his story that it was consensual sex on Beach’s part. When Beach went to the organization with what had happened they swept it under the carpet “Why”?? How did this predator get a dream job with the organization at 27 is he related to the higher ups. I would say that Beach was not his first victim and he was successful with younger lost souls to be brazen enough to pull this on Beach. He must of had protection in the organization that’s who needs to be found.
Yeah. I can imagine a pretty big separation between the vets and the callups / recent NHLers in this case. To what extent are they even at the same practice?
3 days without a comment and I had to log back in again. Websites are dinosaurs and and no one uses WordPress anymore.
You would have been a millionaire if you just would have just started a damn podcast.
Yeah I’m sure podcasts are super lucrative, pffft. Lowetide did one in 2020 called the Oil Can. If you want to support LT, buy an Athletic subscription. Don’t like the site? Lots of other options out there my friend. Thanks to Ryan and all the hard work to keep this site up. I’m continually amazed it’s actually still here after all these years. I like the format and I’ve been reading nearly daily since 2009 or 2010. Over a decade – crazy.
Agreed. I think LT knows what he is doing. I’ve been reading since the 2005 halcyon days of San Fernando, and the web format is what keeps me coming back. I think LT basically does this as a favour to us. Thank you!
Morgan Reilly with an 8X$7.5 million extension in Toronto.
Do even look to see if anyone has already posted this or you just want to waste space being superfluous.
hes here to troll
it doesn’t matter what anyone else says
Thanks Ryan
Thanks Ryan!
Thanks, Ryan!
I will surely miss entering my three year credit history info, the first 13 Fibonacci numbers, and my Alberta Health Card Number, into the site before being able to log in to read the comments, though.
This is a test to see if the new system will accept me and to also thank Ryan for his diligence, patience and time commitment to this place. Like I said yesterday in one of the posts that fell into the void, each of us owes you a beer and then another one.
When I read the site was going to lose yesterday’s posts I left a window open so I could copy/paste you this:
I’ve got a feeling this post isn’t going to be well received and might get caught in moderation jail, but screw it, here goes…
The Hawks report and Beach’s story have been pretty much impossible for me to ignore in my professional life – hard to teach sport sociology and bury my head in the sand when an actual ongoing sociological issue is unfolding before our eyes in a very public and very disturbing manner.
Coincidentally, the unit we’re in right now is sport violence, with a pretty significant focus on toxic masculinity, men’s mental health, locker room culture and how these things have been a part of the dynamic in sport since forever. One of the articles I assign, as well as the textbook chapter I use as a supplement both discuss the connection between how masculinity has been historically framed (violence, toughness, the ‘strong silent type’) and sport being historically just for men. This framing dates back to the 19th century and has been tied to sport as an instrument of social regeneration.
As this historical framing becomes engrained in sport culture, it becomes learned behaviour, and eventually it is institutionalized (as keeper_13 so vividly described below). The result of this institutionalization manifests in things like ‘the warrior code’ – playing through the pain, players being told to show no emotion but play with an edge or (as Kevin Love said in an amazing player’s tribune piece a few years back), ‘play angry’, putting winning above all else.
Some other smarter, better sport sociologists have looked into the link between playing angry or violent and the violence that happens off-ice (or field or court… you get the idea), and have argued that this kind of violence in the game manifests in a few different ways; domestic violence, which we see a lot of in the NFL and MLB, as well as bullying and violence against teammates. we see and hear stories about this kind of amorphous ‘locker room culture’, where hazing rituals are common, where players who don’t fit the traditionally masculine norms are often insulted, attacked and labelled as feminine or queer by their teammates or by coaches and other folks with more power. It’s been argued that this kind behaviour is essentially a way to police players, keep them in line to focus on the ‘just win, baby’ mentality and to ensure that the traditions of sport and sport culture are maintained. The institutions live on, even as players cycle in and out. Pierre Bourdieu would call this process the ‘habitus’ of sport culture, whereas the specific sports are the ‘field.’
So, now that we’ve gone through the sociology lesson and I gave y’all a simpsons clip to watch, let’s talk about today (though the sociology lesson isn’t over. Stick with me if you’d like, downvote me to oblivion if you’d prefer).
One of the foundational concepts in my courses is an idea called ‘the sociological imagination.’ It’s a fairly straightforward idea – how might our own private troubles connect to larger public issues? This situation as it’s unfolding is focused so much on the individual actors (Bowman, Aldrich, Q, Toews, Kane), yet shockingly the only person to really make this connection between a private trouble and the public issue here has been Kyle Beach. The fact that he broke down and apologized to John Doe 2 for not being able to do more, even though he was stuck in a series of traps created by his private trouble allowed him to use his sociological imagination, to recognize that his story doesn’t exist in a vacuum, but rather is intimately tied to John Doe 2, that their lives and the people closest to each of them will be connected forever as a result of this predatory behaviour. They experienced the effect of an institutionalized culture of violence, toxic masculinity and putting winning ahead of people. Kyle Beach, without realizing it, applied his sociological imagination in that moment.
Everyone else has been focused on themselves or defending the actions of individuals, trying to deflect blame and protect people in power without addressing the structural (public issue). Where is the accountability? Where’s Gary? Where’s Fehr? (Oh, right, Fehr and the PA failed Beach too). Until the culture changes across the board, from actually breaking the habitus of the locker rooms to breaking up the old boys clubs in the board rooms, nothing will change. Unless real material consequences happen to anyone, what motivation is there to change? How can punishment and consequences be enforced when it’s the same people attempting to police themselves? Will the IIHF step in? Do they even have the jurisdiction to administer sanctions to NHL franchises? (I know the answer to this question – they do not).
I fear that this will be forgotten in a matter of weeks, consigned to sport history and peer-reviewed articles folks like me will write that will be locked behind a paywall that nobody even has access to unless you’re another academic or a student at a university. This is Graham James all over again, Larry Nasser all over again. This isn’t one heinous act by one individual – this is the culture. What are we going to do about it?
Assuming this makes it through the filters, thanks for reading.
I think you said something about mining it for a paper somewhere? I dunno, I just didn’t want this lost to the ether. At last sight it had 38 upvotes.
We will call you “The Keeper”
Morgan Reilly
8 yrs $7.5m AVV
Leafs salaries for 22-23:
Matthews – $11.6M
Tavares – $11M
Marner – $10M
Rielly – $7.5M
Nylander – $6.9M
Muzzin – $5.6M
Brodie – $5M
Mrazek – $3.8M
Kerfoot – $3.5M
9 players $65M
As much as I love to rag on the Leafs, are there any really bad contracts in the bunch? Possibly Nylander/Mrazek? Matthews is a star, Tavares was the biggest of big fish UFAs, Marner is a consistent Top 10 scorer. And they’ve got some good D-men locked up.
As for Rielly….$7.5M is an absolute steal. I’d take Rielly over any of Werenski, Jones, and Nurse. And I’d take Rielly at $7.5 over Hamilton at $9.0.
The Nurse contract looks a lot worse now.
Matthews is expensive but worth it. Walked to UFA.
Marner is a regular season lord but expensive and walked to UFA. He is also 10.9 Mill.
Tavares might be slowing down, 11 mill, 3 years left after this season.
Nylander is worth the money full stop.
None of those AAVs for those players for this season are bad in isolation. They just should have been better. They got paid and walked to UFA. And this is the definition of a top heavy team, which while there may not be a specific issue with any one contract the cumulative impact of all of them really restricts on how you can build this team.
They just should have been better.
And this is the definition of a top heavy team, which while there may not be a specific issue with any one contract the cumulative impact of all of them really restricts on how you can build this team.
Yeah, I pretty much agree.
Then again, have we really been any better? And are we much less top-heavy?
Ultimately, it’s really hard to win in the cap era. I think Dubas has mostly been fine, but you need some luck thrown in. Tampa did it by getting all of their guys to take discount deals (aided by 0% state income tax), plus a little salary cap circumvention. Who else has really done it?
The randomness of the playoffs is another factor. The Lindros Flyers, Alfredsson Senators, and Thor-leau Sharks were each dominant for a decade-plus and yet never came away with more than a Cup appearance. The Ovechkin Capitals were almost in that category too, until they finally pulled it off.
Tavares is definitely overpriced. So is Marner. And Rielly is not better than Nurse.
Even if Rielly is only equal to Nurse, he’s being paid a lot less than Nurse. (Rielly is included on most projections of Team Canada; Nurse is only occasionally included.)
Every million counts in a cap world. None of Toronto’s contracts are that bad, but collectively they constrain the team. I worry we will have the same experience in the coming years or months.
I have not seen Rielly projected ahead of Nurse for Team Canada. Nurse is ahead of Rielly in almost every statistical category over the last three seasons.
The Tessa Virtue discount. Her career it Toronto/Canada centric..
Phew, it wouldn’t let me in and I thought it was cause I failed the math problem but I got in. That would have been embarrassing..
Thanks Ryan and LT!
Thank You Ryan.
Recent scaling issues aside, this is and has always been an excellent site, technically speaking. You’re very good at what you do.
#RyanIsAPisscutter
Now if you can turn your attention to the content provider 🙂
“PPS, we lost yesterday’s post, including the comments section.”
Hmmm… is that kind of like “the dog ate my homework!”???
The post was ‘Ricki’d’.
Thanks Ryan for your hard work brotha’!
Thanks, Ryan and LT for all the hard work sorting the hosting issues!
Can we get the login math problems back? It was a fun challenge every morning. I felt like woodguy doing fancy stats.
Thanks. Had to clear cache to access new article. 👍
Its time for Raphael Lavoe to start to find a way to show some consistency – I’m not sure how one goes from being highly inconsistent, to consistent – I don’t know if its internal will, if its coaching or if its just experience but, given his start to the season, Lavoe has a ways to go still
Last game was, to my eye, his best – he strung a couple good shifts together in the first period but then wasn’t overly material later in the game (to my eye – the Oilers were playing at the same time).
Cooper Marody and Seth Griffith should stay by their phones if Shore continues to struggle.
Griffith is a winger, no? So not really a potential Shore/4C replacement?
I suppose that kind of applies to Marody at this point too..
Condors game tonight….err…. I mean, at noon today!
Thanks to LT for the vision and Ryan for the execution!
*Terry-Thomas accent* Well done!
Those Magnificent Men…
Monte Carlo or Bust!
test
I’m surprised Holloway doesn’t get s mention, LT.
Also if you include Pujo, I think you have to include Nurse and Drai. JMHO.
Cheers to Ryan!
Holloway is in no man’s land. We don’t know if he’ll be a scorer. Doug Lynch never got back from his hand injury, as an example. I don’t think Holloway is a name who can be reasonably projected until we see him scoring again.
If there was a problem, surely Katz could pay for a bionic hand. I just don’t know if the Oilers could fit the $6million under the cap.
I do have concern, given what I’ve learned about the nature of this injury, of the thumb/wrist never being 100% ever again.
I am catastrophizing for sure but I have concern (based on no more info than anyone else has….. just a bad feeling leading to concern).
LT, I was somewhat confused on your assessment of “No. 1 overall picks” for today’s post… did you mean 1st round picks?
Login today without a math question… awesome!
It’s basically the No. 1 overalls, Eberle, Draisaitl and Nurse I’m referring to, so there is some poetic license.
Cool… thanks, never heard that phrase before… see, that’s why I come here, it’s such a great place for more learning better.
This is a new post on the new system. It isn’t showing up on the main page, so I’m posting some words so people can hopefully check the comments. I have also posted the link thread on twitter.
And we’re LIVE!
Although maybe article should’ve been called, “Moving Day.”
Gawd I hate moving day when I have to move.
I also hate having to tell friends who need a couch moved to a third floor apartment how busy I am.
Ah… one of those guys… noted…
By the way…can I borrow your truck?
I dunno, I’m pretty busy
Recently moved from Peace River to Hinton. Company paid for movers. Wife and I sat on the deck feeling like spare parts until she suggested beer and pizza. Of course we shared after the awesome moving crew had finished.
PIVATT! PIVATT! PIVATT!!
What are “Friends” for, right?
Chandler jammed between the couch and railing…
Oh my God I laughed. In radio, when you’re young there’s a move at the end of each month.
Apparently they did an interview with the crew at one point and mentioned that it took everything they had to hold back from laughing when shooting that scene. And for good reason! It one of few scenes I remember actually made me AND my Dad burst into tears laughing!
A Seinfeld (Eliane) reference on the air and a Friends (Ross) reference on the blog. Love it.