Gaetan Haas and Joakim Nygard have a few things in common, including strong European resumes and unusual names. Nygard drew interest from 20+ teams, while Haas had an audience of one (Ken Holland) from what we know. Oilers fans are uneasy about the roster over the summer, with No. 3 center (Haas) and fleet winger (Nygard) areas of possible improvement.
What can we tell about these two men and their NHL chances?
THE ATHLETIC!
The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!
- New Lowetide: Jesse Puljujarvi’s biggest hurdles: Bad timing and the indifference of the Oilers.
- Lowetide: Projecting the Oilers 2019-20 Opening Night Lineup
- Lowetide: Revisiting the Oilers’ 2016 draft and the opportunities missed
- Lowetide: Examining the potential waiver-wire opportunities at hand for the Oilers
- Lowetide: Cooper Marody’s utility gives him an edge for an Oilers roster spot in 2019-20
- Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster construction options for the Oilers over the next seven months.
- Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto has the talent to win a job with the Oilers on merit, if he’s healthy.
- Jonathan Willis: Jesse Puljujarvi still has upside and the Oilers’ patient approach is the right one
- Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Dave Tippett on rounding out his coaching staff, fixing Oilers’ special teams and using Connor McDavid
- Lowetide: Handicapping the Oilers’ young defencemen and their chances of replacing Andrej Sekera
- Lowetide: Is Kirill Maksimov progressing as the Edmonton Oilers’ next great hope for a true homegrown sniper?
- Jonathan Willis: Oilers ease pressure on crowded defensive pipeline by trading John Marino to the Penguins
- Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2021-22 Oilers might look like after their steady build toward contender status
- Lowetide: Joel Persson is ideally situated to win an opening night roster spot with the Oilers
- Jonathan Willis: Projecting the Oilers’ opening night lineup, line combinations and more.
- Lowetide: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines.
- Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
- Jonathan Willis: Ken Holland ends an ugly situation for the Oilers by trading Milan Lucic for James Neal
- Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
- Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
- Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
- Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.
EUROPE
There are teams (San Jose Sharks) who can grab a European and coach him up within a year. Having a ‘plug and play’ supermarket is a big damned deal. Edmonton has had an uneven track record in procuring Europeans, but Holland has done well over many years.
The League Nygard plays in lets a bunch of air out of the tires of each player’s boxcar number. The tools I use punish the SHL at 58 percent of total. That’s the second best (KHL) league in captivity.
Haas plays in the NLA, where the NHLE punishes more than half (43 percent) and thus the Haas number is less impressive.
However, opportunity is a major item in the case of Haas and Nygard. Haas is a guy who Ken Holland liked, he is signed and the team is not exactly flush in RHC.
I’m finishing up my RE numbers now, and this little Euro battle is a fascinating inside the roster item. Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to be left shot centers.
NHLE does not factor in skating speed which has become an important factor in determining success in today’s NHL.
Example:
SHL scoring + speed = Nygard
AHL scoring + slow boots = Rob Schremp
Not sure to what degree this applies to Marody but
Thinking Nygard has the better chance for success
Ex Oilers playing in Swiss League’s Mark Arcobello and Taylor Chorney also draft pick Toni Rajala.
Sweden and Finland are top tier hockey nations right up there with Canada, Russia and the US.
Switzerland is not in the same tier and are always at a talent deficiency vis-a-vis Canada and their ability to compete within a game is highly dependent on international ice and coaching strategies that push the puck to the outside, much farther from the net and stifle offence – the great equalizer.
This is not to say they don’t have good or even great players, they do, but their depth cannot match.
I think we too often dismiss European players as non-NHL options. We see team Canada and USA lose to the Swiss, Finns and Swedes every year at the Worlds. This is not just due to the big ice and coaching; these guys are professional hockey players.
The premium on skating ability is only increasing year on year and is probably the most important trait for a player to avoid looking out of place in the NHL, particularly at centre. This is why Marody v Khaira v Haas will probably go to Haas. I also think that if a prospect has not established themselves at centre by 24, I think they’re unlikely to stick, though I am open to contradictory examples. Thus, if Drai is going to be an NHL centre, he should probably learn to do that soon.
I agree with Mr.Slush that we are seeing the most competent GMing in over a decade, now let’s just hope Tippett is up to his challenge.
JP plus for a reliable 3rd line centre that can actually win a face off when it counts.
Yes, Khaira has played some center in the NHL with limited success.
For the most part I don’t disagree with your statement but I also don’t agree.
I don’t know if Haas or Marody are better options as they haven’t been given the opportunity. Perhaps Marody centers Khaira and Jurco and the three of them provide a 4th line that keeps momentum and wins the battle?
I have no memory of JJ playing st 4C.
Ya hos development curve has not been a straight line, I’ll concede that.
The premise of my post was that Khaira is a better option today than Haas, Marody, Gagner & Brodziak
Do you disagree?
Decidedly Skeptical Fan,
*Thumbs up
For The Athletic: Connor McDavid and optimal line chemistry: The Oilers need to abandon enforcer fixation and add a skill winger
https://theathletic.com/1142866/2019/08/16/connor-mcdavid-and-optimal-line-chemistry-the-oilers-need-to-abandon-enforcer-fixation-and-add-a-skill-winger/
I’m even more than pretty sure that it is not a racist term, unless of course, cowards can somehow be considered a race. In this age of CONTINUOUSLY viewing EVERYTHING through a PC lens, perhaps cowards are now considered a race. Probably best to ignore the PC bullshit and feel free to use the term with abandon.
OriginalPouzar,
More goals than crest muffins from what I saw in that highlight package.
Potentially but that depends on his offensive hockey IQ and not on his speed.
I personally don’t think that speed is a pre-req to play with Connor but that success with McDavid is more dependent on things such as timing – knowing when to arrive – that is what Maroon excelled at – arriving at the front of the net at the right time. Knowing how to create space for McDavid and, importantly how to get him the puck with space and speed.
I have no idea if Nygard has that type of hockey IQ. If most of his offensive success comes from his wheels, I don’t think McDavid is the right linemate.
Sounds weird, I know.
Ripping it from outside the circles as a positive play or Puljujarvi style?
JP and Ancient Oiler Fan – that is just fantastic work on Nygard and some comparables.
Very helpful and informative.
Invaluable.
Thank you.
P.S. I have pasted both your posts on to another forum with full credit to your usernames and where you posted it – I hope I did not over step and, if I did, please, let me know.
I personally haven’t seen any of the players that Holland has brought in. They have the reputation of being very good skaters with defensive awareness. Some come with PK acumen. Given that the team lacked overall team speed and abysmal PK, I do not understand your total assuredness of doom and gloom. I can comprehend having some doubt but to proclaim that the sky is falling is to my prospective premature. I trust that given the crow you have prepared you are ready to enjoy the dish when it is served to you.
As I get older I’m more and more impressed with a do’ee. A consistent body of work. Your rating in the patch.
Our main man checks all the boxes. I entrust to him my delicate sensibilities.
Take the man’ s dollar, do the man a job.
There is a multiprong plan in place, I like an idea of a plan. No danger of room iq and Skype. Still a low life event. A builder puts up structures, not spends nights sabotaging the neighbors.
I see Holland’s tenure so far as the best we’ve seen an Oiler GM have since Lowe traded his way to the 06 run.
Given the cap and contract situation, he has brought in speed and skill, moved a boat anchor for at least a player type that suits needs far better- a scoring winger.
IMO there are very few players that can outthink a lack of a NHL toolbox. Without exceptional skill to me possessing Mediocre skating is a killer, a lack of enjoying the rougher aspects of the game can be a killer (perimeter), being too small can be a killer.
Holland has done far better in acquiring players that have don’t have obvious massive hurdles to overcome to be helpful, and it’s been a long time since that was the case and 99% of us called the expected failure of acquisitions.
Fast players with skill and a track record saying they have some jam are much harder to write off as a forgone conclusion.
This ties into McLeod to me. He lacks the bite to use an impressive skill set and size. However well developed and coached he could gain the confidence to be an impactful player. Not an elite player perhaps, but the kind of secondary player that championship teams have to have.
For years the secondary players have been slow unskilled brought in for past accolades or for being tough some combination of those things.
I see things as much different than that currently.
Smith does fall into the category I mentioned, but given the history with the coach and what he can do when hot, it is a far more reasonable bet than Koskinen was.
I remain hopeful the team will be far more competitive on a nightly basis.
The term ‘yellow-belly’ is an archetypal American term, but began life in England in the late 18th century as a mildly derogatory nick-name. Grose’s A provincial glossary; with a collection of local proverbs etc, 1787, lists it:
“Yellow bellies. This is an appellation given to persons born in the Fens, who, it is jocularly said, have yellow bellies, like their eels.”
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/yellow-belly.html
I agree 100% and have been beating the same drum
I watched a decent amount of Guelph games last year and two things that I really really liked about his game:
1) How aggressively he defends the blue line and the gap – he’s like the anti-Russell in that regard – he broke up so rushes and stretch passes consistently. In fact, it may have been a bit too much as he’ll need to learn to pick his spots better at the pro level.
2) His defensive zone board battle – he seemed to come away with the puck a massive amount of the time.
These are translatable skill and show defensive IQ.
I live this prospect and have been mentioning him since half way through his draft plus 1 when he worked his way up the Russian depth chart at the WJC in his first go at it.
His defence and face-off work could earn him a job. His size and skating are NHL calibre. OHL points are dependant on his deployment. He could be one of those players that has better results at the NHL level. Having said that I would not be adverse to him getting a year in the AHL gaining experience playing pro hockey.
He is definitely a 2-way player and not reliant totally on offence to be successful. Its much easier to quantify offensive performance but, from accounts, he was inconsistent in his entire game through the year, in particular the 2nd half and playoffs.
Also, to your points, its a player’s offensive game that generally translates to the NHL earlier. It would be interesting to have a 20 year old like this be ready for the NHL based off of defensive acumen and hope his offence comes.
The Woodpecker in my yard, a Yellow-bellied Sapsucker must be doubly racist then 🙂
I’m all for cheap signings. Sign three cheap guys and let them fight over a spot. Gives you more depth too, the Rookies have to beat all three of them to make the Show rather than just getting it handed to them on a silver platter.
Past Management regimes went all out in signing players and usually baited the hook with guaranteed playing time on specific lines and all it ended up doing was Pooching the player.
I can understand that for sure. There were contracts signed that seem reasonable that would likely make the team better. At the same time, they were for “marginal” top 6 talent/player and would have eaten cap dollars that Holland wants to use over the next few years.
In particular, Holland spoke to teams taking advantage of others with cap issues and pointed to teams that needed to sell assets for pennies on the dollar in the name of cap compliance. He spoke to the Oilers being in position to take advantage in the future and I think he’s keeping his currency available for that situation.
That would be a great way to build – Substantial UFAs generally need an overpay and often decline during the term. Straight up “hockey trades” are good but taking advantage of teams that need to sell for compliance – that could be some great shopping.
Jim Benning extended in Vancouver – 3 years I believe.
After the first round was completed and even moreso after they picked Lavoie, I think Holland read the draft perfectly – he knew (or was confident) there was going to be a run on d-men and a draft already deep in skilled forwards was going to leak some legit 1st round, even legit mid-1st round, forward talent to the 2nd. Of course, Zegras is a “better prospect” with a higher probability of making it and becoming a star but Lavoie has very high potential as well – more bust potential but high ceiling.
Any forward drafted was not going to impact the NHL team this year so I don’t agree with the premise above that the Broberg pick signaled anything about Holland’s goals for this year’s team.
I would agree that his skillset would lend him to being a great 4C but he hasn’t showed to be able to succeed in the role at all, let alone be perfect.
Of course, his placement there has been uneven, never given a chance to get used to the role and, of course, over the last number of years, the linemates on the 4th line would be, well, lets say, less than optimal.
Hopefully that 2nd part changes starting this season.
Well he certainly has a chance to be an NHLer.
But remember that these are the few extremely rare examples of mature, non-elite SHL scorers who managed top 6 success in the NHL.
There are hundreds (thousands?) of 25-30 year-olds who scored 35+ points in the SHL but fell short of these examples.
Great work on those comps!
I’m bullish on both Nygard and Haas being contributors next season — Haas as 4C, and Nygard in the top 9.
Nygard would fit in quite well next to Drai/McDavid.
“ I smells carrots a-cookin’… and where there’s carrots there’s rabbit”
Are you meaning to reply to OP here? I haven’t talked about skill or Marody at all today.
Haas looks like he plays a fair amount on his off wing, which is more common for Euros. Isn’t shy ripping it from the top of the circles, or crashing the net for that matter. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44aZJAN-Gw4
Nygard shows well in highlights… good edges and top speed, doesn’t mind driving through defenders en route to the middle of the ice, good on the boards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enKWoaLrTME
Additionally:
“This word originally applied to birds that literally have a yellow belly, like the yellow-bellied sapsucker. From there, it came to mean an insult for cowards. If you’re afraid to ask someone on a date, you’re yellow-bellied. If you’re easily frightened or spooked, you’re yellow-bellied. This is often used as an insult or challenge, like “What are you, yellow-bellied?!””
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/yellow-bellied
Nygard played in the SHL with not bad results:
18/19 52gp 21-14-35 Second in the league for goals and tied for 14th in points
17/18 52gp 17-17-34 Tied for 13th in goals and tied for 15th in points
16/17 52gp 16-13-29 Tied for 10th in goals and tied for 33rd in points
Nygard shines in comparison to your comparables. The only blip is Soderberg at age 27 although he had the same 35 points at age 26 that Nygard had at age 25.
Nygard did not miss a game in those 3 years.
So in the SHL an upper level “mediocre league” Nygard shows better than mediocre being second in goals last year and no worse than 13th in goals in the last three years and being in the top 15 in points for the last 2 years.
I think he has a chance.
jp,
This is questionable on a few levels.
1. Subdividing players who are “skilled” and who aren’t and assuming those who aren’t can’t contribute at the NHL level has no bearing in which NHL players contribute and those that don’t. There are ways to contribute without making beautiful stretch passes or flying in on the rush to score.
2. We still have no idea if Marody will get to that 100 NHL game mark. His skating is suspect, which has more bearing on if he gets there than his perceived skill level.
It’s a preference that he does but if someone else gets there, in the end it makes the team better.
I’d put it as a smidgen less probably given he does not have an NHL contract and will be playing college hockey at Quinnipiac Univ.
I posit they see the same amount of NHL games this year.
Yes, if Holland has incorrectly evaluated these players and they’re gifted a spot they don’t deserve then obviously their presence affects the team and other players negatively.
I’m just trying to push back against the apparently widespread belief that these depth signings have eaten up all the Oilers cap since that’s not the case.
As you well know signing Haas, Nygard, Archibald and Jurco is not in any way related to Holland’s inability to add a scoring winger this offseason.
From his own mouth, Haas has worked on his faceoffs for years and has got better – from listening, it was pretty obvious to me that, while he’s improved, they are still not a strong point. Given age, I don’t anticipate much improvement and I don’t think Haas is going to be a go-to guy on the faceoff – my hope is he’s not at the Nuge level.
OriginalPouzar,
I’d be thrilled if Bouch was even just shades of Larry Murphy. Liking his development post draft, and bet he has a fine year under Manson and Woodcroft.
Nice to see a number of top OHL prospects in the Oilers pipeline.
11. Dmitri Samorukov – Defense – Guelph Storm (Edmonton Oilers)
Few prospects on the planet have seen their star rise the way that Samorukov has this past season. What he did in the second half of the season and in the OHL playoffs was just, flat out, a treat to watch. He dominated at both ends of the ice with his mobility, skill, and tenaciousness. Is this the real Samorukov or was it just a hot streak? Remains to be seen. He’ll have to prove himself at the pro level, but I am a believer in what I saw. He’s always possessed that kind of potential, and the light bulb finally went off.
NHL Comparison: Niklas Kronwall
and in the honourable mentions:
Kirill Maksimov – Forward – Niagara IceDogs (Edmonton Oilers)
Was a little disappointed by Maksimov’s development this year and a knee injury kept him from contributing in the playoffs. But this power forward is a goal scorer. He just needs to be separated from some bad habits.
NHL Comparison: James Neal
Ryan McLeod – Forward – Saginaw Spirit (Edmonton Oilers)
McLeod checks a lot of boxes. He skates well. He has size. He has a good stick in all three zones. He can keep the puck on a string. But his lack of offensive production at the OHL level concerns me. He still lacks that killer instinct on the ice.
NHL Comparison: J.T. Miller
Bakersfield is going to be fun to follow this season. The AHL feed is tempting.
How is that plan against trying to win?
When the prospects pass the veterans, they get called up and replace the veterans – when Marody proves to be better than Kassian, he will replace Kassian in the lineup for example – that may be on October 2, December 15 or never.
Holland has stuck to his stated plan fully – making improvements to improve this year but not doing anything that could potentially hinder the primary goal of turning this team in to a legit consistent contender in 2-4 years and doing things to help set up more material improvements during that time
Well, that’s not at odds with what he said though.
Just because you or I don’t agree with what Holland moves or lack thereof, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t been internally consistent in what he’s said and done.
Your premise is right (in my opinion) but McLeod was NOT an overager – he was in his 19 year old season, standard junior season.
Did the Oilers improvement in record over the 2nd half of the season have anything to do with Caggiula being shifted away from center?
I can’t wait.
I always struggle with “can’t wait until it starts” because it wishes away the summer but summer never came this year.
3.5 weeks until the rookies I think.
McLeod’s strong camp last year is a perfect example of how little training camp and exhibition season mean for the higher end draft – draft plus 3 crowd.
These players are high skill/talent and consistently look good throughout camp – as they should given the level of skill that is on the ice right up and till the end (even at the end, the veterans are there for timing, conditioning, etc.).
McLeod had an up and down season last year in the OHL and struggled quite a bit after he was traded and in to the playoffs.
I look forward to him turning pro and season how he does with the Condors but I don’t anticipate he’ll be an NHL option this season barring a very pleasant surprise. May even be a few years.
Love his size and speed.
They are both on two-way deals for less than $1M because they were subject to the Entry Level Contract parameters. I only bring this up because I believe the coach and manager have every expectation they are on the NHL team – I really hope they earn it.
Your point does stand, if re-assigned, they come off the cap completely.
GMB3,
As defined by Google:
yel·low-bel·ly
/ˈyelō ˌbelē/
nounINFORMAL
1.
a coward.
“I was serious about my stand against the war and was not just a yellow-belly”
2.
any of various animals with yellow underparts.
In my opinion, yes:
1) looking forward, things look much better if a real prospect with a future like Marody takes the next step and proves to be a 3C with skill
2) having a player with skill like Marody win the spot is better for the current team than if a less-skilled player wins it
The “merit” point is important, in my opinion – hopefully the “winner” is there because he’s actually earned it and not the best of a bunch that aren’t ready.
The trouble with pontificating is you don’t have enough information. McLeod is competing on D not Offense. So, you rate him on offense, not D and he’s a failure.
The Gainey lesson goes out the window, Larsson doesn’t score and so on. I remember reading that he controlled the game in the third period, etc. Don’t count, eh?