NHL Ready?

Tyler Benson’s NHL equivalencies have shown a consistent contributor offensively since he was drafted. A forward who posts 30+ NHLE points should be able to grab an NHL job and score enough to stay in the league until his hands betray him.

Benson was drafted around some quality players in 2016’s second round. We know he’ll never catch Alex DeBrincat, but what about the other men drafted in the second round with Benson?

THE ATHLETIC!

Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. I am proud to be part of The Athletic. Here are the most recent Oilers stories.

DRAFT DAY NHLE’S SINCE 2010 (TOP OILERS PICKS)

  1. Connor McDavid 25-42-67
  2. Taylor Hall 17-29-46
  3. Nail Yakupov 18-22-40
  4. Leon Draisaitl 15-25-40
  5. Kailer Yamamoto 16-22-38
  6. Ryan Nugent Hopkins 11-27-38
  7. Raphael Lavoie 12-15-27
  8. Ryan McLeod 10-17-27
  9. Tyler Benson 7-16-23
  10. Jesse Puljujarvi 10-11-21

TYLER BENSON’S NHLE’S

The NHLE’s do a nice job of showing who is emerging and when. DeBrincat was miles better than everyone in the second round on draft day, and was posting 52 points in an NHL season two years later. Jordan Kyrou has had a nice trajectory since draft day too, I think he’ll be a regular for several years. In this group, I would pick Benson third. He’s been a consistent 30+ NHLE since he was drafted. He’s ready.

RAPHAEL LAVOIE’S NHLE’S

Lavoie looks good in this group, he won’t catch Kaliyev (who isn’t in DeBrincat territory but it is no more than one town over) but there’s some real talent there. A good trajectory.

RYAN MCLEOD’S NHLE’S

I think Berggren projects as the best in this group, after that no clear second place finisher. Ylonen and McLeod are playing in pro leagues and project as bottom six options, Noel and Drury can still be projected a little higher. I don’t think this group is as clear as it will be three years from now.

BOB MCKENZIE’S 2020 SECOND ROUND

  • No. 34 LC Jan Mysak (OHL) 30.1
  • No. 35 LC Marat Khusnutdinov (MHL) 12.7
  • No. 39 LW Ty Smilanic (USHL) 14.3
  • No. 40 RW Ozzy Wiesblatt (WHL) 27.1
  • No. 41 RW Sam Colangelo (USHL) 29.2

I’ve mentioned a few times that trading Jesse Puljujarvi for a second-round pick isn’t something to recommend but an exception could be made if Jan Mysak is available at (say) No. 35 overall.

OILERS SECOND ROUND FORWARDS 2010-19

If we run the NHLE’s for second round picks through the last decade, we get an idea about when the organization turned the corner and started valuing second-round picks as offensive contributors. Miles to go, but progress, starting with Marco Roy, and that’s the time men like Craig MacTavish and Michael Parkatti were adding their valuations to the pile. I consider any NHLE season of 30 or more points after draft +1 as representing NHL-readiness.

Pitlick’s numbers were a little shy for an early second rounder but year two looked promising. He couldn’t stay healthy in the AHL and lost both development time and opportunities with the Oilers. Pitlick finally found the range and for his NHL career is averaging 13-11-24 per 82 NHL games.

Roy is a lost opportunity in my opinion, drafted by MacT in 2013 and then signed to an AHL-only deal (laughable considering the quality of players who the team gave pro contracts to in 2015) and put him on the No. 4 line with PK duty. He STILL outperformed the competition but the organization’s new management group had no interest.

Benson is the first forward this decade chosen in the second round who has delivered the kind of offense that will land him an NHL job. If he’s bottom-six, then he should be capable of delivering 25-30 points per 82 games. That’s a little more than Pitlick and the resume suggests that’s fair. Lavoie is tracking ahead of Benson but it’s early days.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

Friday edition of the Lowdown, we hit the airwaves steady talking at 10, TSN1260. Steve Lansky from BigMouthSports will talk NHL’s return and who he likes to win it all among Canadian teams. Tom Gazzola from TSN’s Don Wheaton on Whyte Pre & Post-Game Show and the Locked on Oilers podcast gives us the latest on RTP and CBA negotiations. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

121 Responses to "NHL Ready?"

  1. JOFA says:

    Schremp’s boots have already betrayed him ?

  2. Lowetide says:

    JOFA:
    Schremp’s boots have already betrayed him ?

    Hold on a minute and I’ll find 50 comments from posters on this site about Kailer Yamamoto being a failure from this time last summer.

  3. defmn says:

    Lowetide: Hold on a minute and I’ll find 50 comments from posters on this site about Kailer Yamamoto being a failure from this time last summer.

    And Bear as well.

  4. dustrock says:

    Will be a strange experience with the NHL playoffs regardless but especially strange if Edmonton is hosting the SCF and the Oilers aren’t represented.

    Football fans (either version) will be more familiar with a host city not being involved but not for a 7 game series.

  5. Elgin R says:

    Mcleod’s usage in the AHL is a good development model by the Oilers. Do they need a #1 or #2 center? No. A position of need is a PK 3C (oh how we miss you Ryan Strome). Mcleod was never a big point producer in Jr. hockey compared to Bensen or Lavoie. PPG last two years of Jr.: Lavoie – 1.32, Benson – 1.22, Mcleod – 1.01. So no expectation that he will suddenly become a NHL scorer (for reference Yamamoto – 1.55 PPG last two years of Jr.). Mcleod has good speed, is big (6.03 / 203), and looks to be defensively responsible (small sample size only watched 3 Condors games).
    Prediction for 200+ game NHL career: 40%

    I am confident that Benson will be a decent bottom 6 player. Has good hockey IQ and works at his craft. He seems to have shaken the bad injury luck that he had for a few years and can now train properly. He is a smart player who looked much better as he played more NHL games. Really pulling for him as an Edmonton-raised player.
    Prediction for 200+ game NHL career: 80%

    Raphael Lavoie is an intriguing prospect; big, good skater and volume shooter. Too early to tell. Need to see him in Bakersfield.

  6. kelvjn says:

    Wish these junior league NHLE be weighted based on player age and size.

    When you are youngest of the age group you have to standout a little more to take ice time and pp ice time from the more mature kids.

    When you are giant among kids (6’4 200lb as a 18 year old) your project should be less because in pro league everyone is bigger. Not sure if the slight build ones project higher due to having to standout more for play time (see younger player) or project lower because the size difference would be bigger.

    The other problem is the player bio size isn’t all that accurate.

  7. leeinvan says:

    As usual, it comes down to opportunity, bringing a player up and putting him on the 4th line won’t help a young skilled player trying to make his way.
    When you look at teams like Chicago and Tampa who gave a prospect that wasn’t a 1st rounder a chance , they were rewarded. This all comes down to the coach.
    Old school coaches are big on loyalty, and want the prospect to pay his dues, sometimes this hurt the team and the prospect.
    Younger coaches tend to be more open, and maybe willing to try a prospect on a top line.

  8. maudite says:

    Far down the list of what will be strange about the finals no? Game will be watched on tvs regardless of where it is. Hopefully Not a ton of fanfare on streets regardless of who wins.

    Basically massive spike for katz hotel income and I imagine inhouse food income…people probably start proclaiming great economic benefits but I dont think they are really all that great.

    I was hoping it might be elsewhere.

    dustrock:
    Will be a strange experience with the NHL playoffs regardless but especially strange if Edmonton is hosting the SCF and the Oilers aren’t represented.

    Football fans (either version) will be more familiar with a host city not being involved but not for a 7 game series.

  9. Pescador says:

    Lowetide: Hold on a minute and I’ll find 50 comments from posters on this site about Kailer Yamamoto being a failure from this time last summer.

    My personal favorites were the comments about how his tiny bones would never allow him to play in the NHL
    Wasted pick

  10. defmn says:

    leeinvan:
    As usual, it comes down to opportunity, bringing a player up and putting him on the 4th linewon’t help a young skilled player trying to make his way.
    When you look at teams like Chicago and Tampa who gave a prospect that wasn’t a 1st rounder a chance , they were rewarded. This all comes down to the coach.
    Old school coaches are big on loyalty, and want the prospect to pay his dues, sometimes this hurt the team and the prospect.
    Younger coaches tend to be more open, and maybe willing to try a prospecton a top line.

    Strong teams have more ability to protect young players from their mistakes without it costing them wins and the losses weighing on the kids minds to the point where they lose their confidence.

    Winning teams can afford to take chances that bubble teams cannot.

  11. godot10 says:

    Tyler. Score some goals. i.e. play better with the puck not on your stick. You are neither good enough or fast enough to be just a playmaker at the NHL level. You have to BALANCE your game. Your comfort zone is not good enough. You gotta learn to get to the right places without the puck.

    Find your inner Marty Reasoner and evolve.

  12. Scungilli Slushy says:

    defmn: Strong teams have more ability to protect young players from their mistakes without it costing them wins and the losses weighing on the kids minds to the point where they lose their confidence.

    Winning teams can afford to take chances that bubble teams cannot.

    Holland said this in an interview several years pre Oiler.

    The ‘reason’ for looking for skill regardless of size was drafting late over a long time.

    The ‘reason’ for slow cooking prospects was a deep veteran team that could sign any UFA they wanted to.

    Context is everything, we know this.

  13. Jordan says:

    defmn: Strong teams have more ability to protect young players from their mistakes without it costing them wins and the losses weighing on the kids minds to the point where they lose their confidence.

    Winning teams can afford to take chances that bubble teams cannot.

    This is backwards.

    Bubble teams need to take chances to find the players that can make them winning teams.

    Teams that become winners take chances because status quo of a bubble team is still a bubble team.

    And if they fail, they’re still bubble teams, or they get higher draft picks.

  14. flyfish1168 says:

    Lowetide: Hold on a minute and I’ll find 50 comments from posters on this site about Kailer Yamamoto being a failure from this time last summer.

    Not trying to be negative and get ahead of of ourselves and add pressure on the young man. But is it to early to call it a success?

  15. JOFA says:

    Lowetide: Hold on a minute and I’ll find 50 comments from posters on this site about Kailer Yamamoto being a failure from this time last summer.

    This is true Al. However, Benson’s skating ability, or lack thereof, is a huge issue imo. Furthermore, Benson’s skating is not even on the same planet as Yamamoto’s.

  16. Scungilli Slushy says:

    flyfish1168: Not trying to be negative. But is it to early to call it a success?

    I don’t think so

    He has everything that is needed to be a good or better NHL player except size

    That he can play with skill isn’t a rare talent. His biggest challenge will be health and sustained production, they go together

    If he doesn’t score there is no easy place for him. There is a reason there aren’t many players his size in the league

  17. BONE207 says:

    leeinvan:
    As usual, it comes down to opportunity, bringing a player up and putting him on the 4th linewon’t help a young skilled player trying to make his way.
    When you look at teams like Chicago and Tampa who gave a prospect that wasn’t a 1st rounder a chance , they were rewarded. This all comes down to the coach.
    Old school coaches are big on loyalty, and want the prospect to pay his dues, sometimes this hurt the team and the prospect.
    Younger coaches tend to be more open, and maybe willing to try a prospecton a top line.

    Why do you want Tippett fired?

  18. BONE207 says:

    Pescador: My personal favorites were the comments about how his tiny bones would never allow him to play in the NHL
    Wasted pick

    Sting like a humming bird, fly like an eagle

  19. Reja says:

    Jordan: This is backwards.

    Bubble teams need to take chances to find the players that can make them winning teams.

    Teams that become winners take chances because status quo of a bubble team is still a bubble team.

    And if they fail, they’re still bubble teams, or they get higher draft picks.

    Usually older coaches or on winning teams when they’re not their fired. When replaced with a younger coach whose organizations want to do a so called rebuild they have a window where losing is acceptable. These Coaches can afford and expected to go with the younger players in the top 6 and PP.

  20. Reja says:

    JOFA:
    Schremp’s boots have already betrayed him ?

    Does Benson owe you cab fair? Why such a hard on for this kid he’s getting a chance regardless which he damn well deserves. Time will tell but I would rather cheer for the hometown boy then troll him before he’s even given a fair shake.

  21. defmn says:

    Jordan: This is backwards.

    Bubble teams need to take chances to find the players that can make them winning teams.

    Teams that become winners take chances because status quo of a bubble team is still a bubble team.

    And if they fail, they’re still bubble teams, or they get higher draft picks.

    Taking chances to find players is somewhat different than taking chances playing guys before they are ready.

  22. JOFA says:

    Reja: Does Benson owe you cab fair? Why such a hard on for this kid he’s getting a chance regardless which he damn well deserves. Time will tell but I would rather cheer for the hometown boy then troll him before he’s evengiven a fair shake.

    Call it as I see it. He’ll have a career. In Europe?

  23. N64 says:

    Holland playoff teams always seemed to have a late overcooked roster addition that surprised in the playoffs.

    With the sudden restart someone will get injured and another will start slowly and the replacement won’t give the spot back,

    For the sheer fun of it I’ll go first with the Holland special: Tyler Benson.

  24. OriginalPouzar says:

    Tyler Benson’s rookie pro season in the AHL was absolutely marvelous – it was so good that it may have set too high an expectation. I recall Woodguy’s blog comparing his 20 year old season to a swarth of others and he was in very very good company. A step back offensively this past season on a team that was a mess almost all year long (goalering early due to injury and then call-ups and injuries to much of the skill). Benson showed in his cup of coffee that he has NHL attributes and a future in this league.

    Recall, the likes of Yamamoto, Bear, Jones, etc. all had cups of coffee in their first few years of pro and were not ready.

    I’m not ready to send Benson to Prague yet…..

    ————

    Really really hope there is a place for Lavoie to play many games this season. I really look forward to seeing his his development curve goes as a pro. I know his shot, ability to get that shot off and the skill he has but I often “worry” about prospects that are more physically mature in than others in junior – will their games translate to the NHL where they aren’t more physically mature? I look at Lavoie’s workout posts – he’s big and strong and in great shape – more of man than many in the Q he played against

    ————-

    McLeod’s NHLe doesn’t jump off the page but, of course, we know it was pretty much ALL 5 on 5 (little PP) and with bottom six or middle six AHLers. I think his production 5 on 5 is actually quite encouraging and I look for him to be a full time center next season and top 6 center playing both special teams for most of the year.

  25. Lowetide says:

    Dave Tippett talking Tyler Benson: “There’s some guys in the league who aren’t great skaters but they anticipate so well. Tyler has hockey smarts and that’ll be an advantage for him. There’s a difference between fast and quick. Quick is making 10-foot plays here and there, fast is if you’re getting caught and the puck turns over. That’s a 100-foot sprint, not a 10-foot blink. As a player, you have to realize not to put yourself in the situation. I think he’s smart enough to realize that,”

    https://edmontonsun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/oilers-top-forward-prospect-tyler-benson-is-ready-for-bigger-things

  26. Pescador says:

    BONE207: fly like an eagle

    To the sea?

  27. doritogrande says:

    Mcleod’s usage in the AHL is a good development model by the Oilers. Do they need a #1 or #2 center? No. A position of need is a PK 3C (oh how we miss you Ryan Strome). Mcleod was never a big point producer in Jr. hockey compared to Bensen or Lavoie. PPG last two years of Jr.: Lavoie – 1.32, Benson – 1.22, Mcleod – 1.01. So no expectation that he will suddenly become a NHL scorer (for reference Yamamoto – 1.55 PPG last two years of Jr.). Mcleod has good speed, is big (6.03 / 203), and looks to be defensively responsible (small sample size only watched 3 Condors games).
    Prediction for 200+ game NHL career: 40%

    I am confident that Benson will be a decent bottom 6 player. Has good hockey IQ and works at his craft. He seems to have shaken the bad injury luck that he had for a few years and can now train properly. He is a smart player who looked much better as he played more NHL games. Really pulling for him as an Edmonton-raised player.
    Prediction for 200+ game NHL career: 80%

    Let’s riff off this for a moment. We all agree that McLeod’s projection is 3C. We all also tend to agree that Benson is going to be in tough for Top-6 work. This is the perfect time and opportunity to pair them together in Bakersfield and see what they can do together as 2/3ds of the Cleary-Reisen-I dont remember the third guy line from the old Bulldogs days.

    Despite Mcleod being labelled 3C, there is no reason he should not be given top-line billing in the AHL with the best creative forwards he can be given. This is his time to develop skills, flash what little bit of offense he can, and get 20+ minutes per game in all situations so that when he’s called up, he can do it all if needed.

    Benson needs to be given time to develop some checking skills and learn how to play the NHL tempo game. That’s best developed going against the AHL’s best, with the best defensive C we can give him (could arguably be Malone, but I’m making a point here). He needs to learn to cycle, to dump and chase, to haul ass on the backcheck.

    If everything jives, you’ve got your 3-line for the next five years as early as the 2021-22 season.. Creative thinking!

  28. Ryan says:

    N64:
    Holland playoff teams always seemed to have a late overcooked roster addition that surprised in the playoffs.

    With the sudden restart someone will get injured and another will start slowly and the replacement won’t give the spot back,

    For the sheer fun of it I’ll go first with the Holland special: Tyler Benson.

    Ha.

    I remember watching the Detroit Red Wings during the 2009 playoffs when the color commentator quipped, “What’s an Abdelkader? Who is this guy the called up? He’s flying all over the ice…”

  29. Ryan says:

    Lowetide:
    Dave Tippett talking Tyler Benson: “There’s some guys in the league who aren’t great skaters but they anticipate so well. Tyler has hockey smarts and that’ll be an advantage for him. There’s a difference between fast and quick. Quick is making 10-foot plays here and there, fast is if you’re getting caught and the puck turns over. That’s a 100-foot sprint, not a 10-foot blink. As a player, you have to realize not to put yourself in the situation. I think he’s smart enough to realize that,”

    https://edmontonsun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/oilers-top-forward-prospect-tyler-benson-is-ready-for-bigger-things

    Nice quote.

    I think we’ll see more of these player types succeed due largely to better roster construction.

    Teams with depth always seem to have a better time developing forwards.

    For the Oilers in the past, if you were given a chance to succeed, it was either the top line or no man’s land.

  30. Ryan says:

    Ryan,

    To put in other terms, imagine a player like Benson trying to find his way in the NHL on one of the DOD Oilers teams.

  31. OriginalPouzar says:

    Edmonton Oilers
    @EdmontonOilers
    ·
    25m
    It’s happening! Everybody stay calm!

    McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse & Kassian are all back in town as the #Oilers Phase 2 crew at
    @RogersPlace
    continues to grow.

  32. maudite says:

    It gives me hope that maybe maroody might have some tread on tires and his claims of finally feeling back to full speed is impactful TBH. If a serviceable above replacement top 9 player comes from either option…its a big bump.

    OriginalPouzar:
    Tyler Benson’s rookie pro season in the AHL was absolutely marvelous – it was so good that it may have set too high an expectation.I recall Woodguy’s blog comparing his 20 year old season to a swarth of others and he was in very very good company.A step back offensively this past season on a team that was a mess almost all year long (goalering early due to injury and then call-ups and injuries to much of the skill).Benson showed in his cup of coffee that he has NHL attributes and a future in this league.

    Recall, the likes of Yamamoto, Bear, Jones, etc. all had cups of coffee in their first few years of pro and were not ready.

    I’m not ready to send Benson to Prague yet…..

    ————

    Really really hope there is a place for Lavoie to play many games this season. I really look forward to seeing his his development curve goes as a pro.I know his shot, ability to get that shot off and the skill he has but I often “worry” about prospects that are more physically mature in than others in junior – will their games translate to the NHL where they aren’t more physically mature?I look at Lavoie’s workout posts – he’s big and strong and in great shape – more of man than many in the Q he played against

    ————-

    McLeod’s NHLe doesn’t jump off the page but, of course, we know it was pretty much ALL 5 on 5 (little PP) and with bottom six or middle six AHLers.I think his production 5 on 5 is actually quite encouraging and I look for him to be a full time center next season and top 6 center playing both special teams for most of the year.

  33. JimmyV1965 says:

    Jordan: This is backwards.

    Bubble teams need to take chances to find the players that can make them winning teams.

    Teams that become winners take chances because status quo of a bubble team is still a bubble team.

    And if they fail, they’re still bubble teams, or they get higher draft picks.

    It is simply much easier to integrate young players into NHL lineups with established vets, and real vets, not NHL tweeners. That was a big problem with the Oil during the decade of darkness and the reason young players popped once they were traded off the team.

  34. JimmyV1965 says:

    Ryan:
    Ryan,

    To put in other terms, imagine a player like Benson trying to find his way in the NHL on one of the DOD Oilers teams.

    Would almost be impossible.

  35. leadfarmer says:

    Pescador: My personal favorites were the comments about how his tiny bones would never allow him to play in the NHL
    Wasted pick

    Always thought he would will himself an NHL career as an Arvidsson like player

  36. Reja says:

    JOFA: Call it as I see it. He’ll have a career. In Europe?

    What team do you cheer for?

  37. JOFA says:

    Reja: What team do you cheer for?

    The Golden Seals! You?

  38. Lowetide says:

    JOFA: The Golden Seals! You?

    That’s a wonderful team to cheer for!

  39. OilClog says:

    After a few years of playing on Connors or Leon’s wing and Benson could be looking back at DeBrincat screaming Dogs rule! Lots of sidewalk left.

  40. ArmchairGM says:

    N64:
    Holland playoff teams always seemed to have a late overcooked roster addition that surprised in the playoffs.

    With the sudden restart someone will get injured and another will start slowly and the replacement won’t give the spot back,

    For the sheer fun of it I’ll go first with the Holland special: Tyler Benson.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper Marody was the one to surprise if given a chance. If he’s 100% he’s a pretty good hockey player.

  41. Ancient Oilers Fan says:

    So.

    Benson McLeod Marody

  42. Darth Tu says:

    ArmchairGM: I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper Marody was the one to surprise if given a chance. If he’s 100% he’s a pretty good hockey player.

    I’d love to see it. If he’s injury free this year, and there’s an AHL season it could be a perfect storm.

  43. OriginalPouzar says:

    maudite:
    It gives me hope that maybe maroody might have some tread on tires and his claims of finally feeling back to full speed is impactful TBH.If a serviceable above replacement top 9 player comes from either option…its a big bump.

    I have the same hope – from accounts, he really wasn’t healthy all year long – we know how those head issues can linger and change a player’s game for a while.

    My hesitation still surrounds his off-season verbal when he took no ownership of the need to work on his skating as “its never held him back before”.

    It was more the lack of acknowledgement, ownership and drive to get better than the skating itself that bothered me.

  44. OriginalPouzar says:

    Elgin R:
    Mcleod’s usage in the AHL is a good development model by the Oilers.Do they need a #1 or #2 center?No.A position of need is a PK 3C (oh how we miss you Ryan Strome).Mcleod was never a big point producer in Jr. hockey compared to Bensen or Lavoie.PPG last two years of Jr.: Lavoie – 1.32, Benson – 1.22, Mcleod – 1.01.So no expectation that he will suddenly become a NHL scorer (for reference Yamamoto – 1.55 PPG last two years of Jr.).Mcleod has good speed, is big (6.03 / 203), and looks to be defensively responsible (small sample size only watched 3 Condors games).
    Prediction for 200+ game NHL career:40%

    I am confident that Benson will be a decent bottom 6 player. Has good hockey IQ and works at his craft.He seems to have shaken the bad injury luck that he had for a few years and can now train properly. He isa smart player who looked much better as he played more NHL games.Really pulling for him as an Edmonton-raised player.
    Prediction for 200+ game NHL career:80%

    Raphael Lavoie is an intriguing prospect; big, good skater and volume shooter.Too early to tell.Need to see him in Bakersfield.

    I agree with most of this except to note that, anecdotally, 3rd line AHL centers don’t become NHL centers. 1st/2nd line AHL centers become 3Cs in the NHL.

    I’m not concerned at all about McLeod’s useage or production this past season. His 5 on 5 scoring was actually quite heartening, in particular given middle-bottom six linemates.

    My goal for McLeod this season is to be a full time center in the AHL (no more wing) and to play most of it in the top 6 with both special teams.

    High 2nd round pick that will turn in to material 3Cs in the NHL will usually start showing that pedigree in their 2nd season – again, anecdotally.

    I anticipate McLeod being a major part of the Condors this season – assuming there is one – please, please be one!

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    Friedman with some interesting additional details for the RTP/CBA extension that will be voted on (when finalized) – for those that care about the minutia:

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/potential-cba-modifications-emerging-nhl-nhlpa-continue-negotiations/

    – its a 4 years extension (plus the one year left) but is extended for a year if the players owe the league/owners over $125M

    – we know the $81.5M cap for the next two year – it stays there until revenues hit $81.5M and then the new cap will be calculated via the 2 years prior.

    – escrow is 20%, then 14-18 (depending on revenues), then 10%, then 6%

    – the one-time 10% deferral will be paid to the players in three years

    – trade protection clauses run with a player that is traded prior to them kicking in (acquiring team does not have to agree).

    – a player that signs a multi-year 35 plus contract and retires – well, there will be no more cap hit.

    (THAT IS HUGE)

    – no change to signing bonus matters

    (THAT’S A SHOCKER TO ME)

    – No more trade conditions dependant on the player signing with the acquiring team

    (This kind of sucks for trading players like college free agents that won’t sign – draft pick is often conditioned on signing)

    – As for return to play, anyone has the right to opt out without penalty. There will be pre-testing before everyone travels to the hub, and in the final week before arrival everyone will be asked to stay at home as much as possible, besides going to the rink. Once there, testing will take place on a daily basis, as each team will have a set time each day depending on their schedule.

  46. OriginalPouzar says:

    That last one is huge for me and, frankly, I’m highly disappointed.

    I don’t think players “being asked to stay home as much as possible” in the last week is enough.

    Shit, I think they should be happening now and I think Phase 3 (training camp) NEEDS to be a mandated home and rink quarantine – not a “stay home as much as you can” suggestion.

    I don’t think that goes far enough to try and get to the hubs COVID-free -in particular with those coming from “hotter zones”.

    Hopefully the players are very smart about this.

    I’ve lost a bit of confidence in this.

  47. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    That last one is huge for me and, frankly, I’m highly disappointed.

    I don’t think players “being asked to stay home as much as possible” in the last week is enough.

    Shit, I think they should be happening now and I think Phase 3 (training camp) NEEDS to be a mandated home and rink quarantine – not a “stay home as much as you can” suggestion.

    I don’t think that goes far enough to try and get to the hubs COVID-free -in particular with those coming from “hotter zones”.

    Hopefully the players are very smart about this.

    I’ve lost a bit of confidence in this.

    Here’s hoping none of them have the Djokovic attitude.

  48. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Marody is a skilled player, but he’s in rough waters. Not a great skater, under typical NHL size and not a prolific offensive producer.

    His ace in the hole is that the Oilers still lack skill in the bottom 6. That being said they also lack speed in the established bottom 6. Those that have speed are smaller players. There aren’t many ideal choices for the coaches.

    No straight path for Cooper. Strong two way play would really help his cause, and being strong on face offs. I don’t know if he’s NHL good in those areas.

    The Oilers are his best shot, having a big hole at RC. Opportunity knocks. It is really a shame he doesn’t appear to be focusing on skating which every player needs to these days if not already strong at it or well established.

    If they can find a solid defensive line to play behind the top 2 they could run a younger line (skilled and less experienced). Marody, Benson and maybe a decent more experienced RW. Has Tippet ever done that I wonder, if he has a line he can depend on when his top 6 aren’t on the ice?

  49. OriginalPouzar says:

    Darth Tu: Here’s hoping none of them have the Djokovic attitude.

    Hope not but, at the same time, MAF and Max P. can be strolling around Vegas and Jamie Benn and Tyler Seguin out for some beers in Dallas the night before they head to Edmonton and get in to the hub.

    They are NOT doing enough to ensure they get in the bubble Covid-free.

  50. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    That last one is huge for me and, frankly, I’m highly disappointed.

    I don’t think players “being asked to stay home as much as possible” in the last week is enough.

    Shit, I think they should be happening now and I think Phase 3 (training camp) NEEDS to be a mandated home and rink quarantine – not a “stay home as much as you can” suggestion.

    I don’t think that goes far enough to try and get to the hubs COVID-free -in particular with those coming from “hotter zones”.

    Hopefully the players are very smart about this.

    I’ve lost a bit of confidence in this.

    Agreed. Especially for players coming up from the States. Risky.

  51. OriginalPouzar says:

    leeinvan:
    As usual, it comes down to opportunity, bringing a player up and putting him on the 4th linewon’t help a young skilled player trying to make his way.
    When you look at teams like Chicago and Tampa who gave a prospect that wasn’t a 1st rounder a chance , they were rewarded. This all comes down to the coach.
    Old school coaches are big on loyalty, and want the prospect to pay his dues, sometimes this hurt the team and the prospect.
    Younger coaches tend to be more open, and maybe willing to try a prospecton a top line.

    Our coach is fairly old-school but it took him one game to try Yamamoto with Nuge and Drai.

    On the other hand, Benson was pretty much stapled to Archie and had only a couple shifts with Leon, Connor or Nuge.

  52. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    That last one is huge for me and, frankly, I’m highly disappointed.

    I don’t think players “being asked to stay home as much as possible” in the last week is enough.

    Shit, I think they should be happening now and I think Phase 3 (training camp) NEEDS to be a mandated home and rink quarantine – not a “stay home as much as you can” suggestion.

    I don’t think that goes far enough to try and get to the hubs COVID-free -in particular with those coming from “hotter zones”.

    Hopefully the players are very smart about this.

    I’ve lost a bit of confidence in this.

    I think it’s difficult for an employer to tell people what to do when not executing the job itself. I think that’s good.

  53. Melvis says:

    I came across this the other day. Some might find it of interest.

    Do empty stadiums affect outcomes? The data says yes.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/sports/soccer/soccer-without-fans-germany-data.html

  54. JOFA says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Marody is a skilled player, but he’s in rough waters. Not a great skater, under typical NHL size and not a prolific offensive producer.

    His ace in the hole is that the Oilers still lack skill in the bottom 6. That being said they also lack speed in the established bottom 6. Those that have speed are smaller players. There aren’t many ideal choices for the coaches.

    No straight path for Cooper. Strong two way play would really help his cause, and being strong on face offs. I don’t know if he’s NHL good in those areas.

    The Oilers are his best shot, having a big hole at RC. Opportunity knocks. It is really a shame he doesn’t appear to be focusing on skating which every player needs to these days if not already strong at it or well established.

    If they can find a solid defensive line to play behind the top 2 they could run a younger line (skilled and less experienced). Marody, Benson and maybe a decent more experienced RW. Has Tippet ever done that I wonder, if he has a line he can depend on when his top 6 aren’t on the ice?

    Now reread that first paragraph but insert Benson/Schremp instead of Marody. Interesting?

  55. N64 says:

    OP, Did not hear the details but heard there will be some new AHL financial aspects in the proposed new CBA.

  56. OriginalPouzar says:

    maudite:
    Far down the list of what will be strange about the finals no?Game will be watched on tvs regardless of where it is.Hopefully Not a ton of fanfare on streets regardless of who wins.

    Basically massive spike for katz hotel incomeand I imagine inhouse food income…people probably start proclaiming great economic benefits but I dont think they are really all that great.

    I was hoping it might be elsewhere.

    I don’t really think anyone has proclaimed great economic benefits but a minor boost.

    Jason Kenny himself, on Oilers Now about a month ago, downplayed the direct economic impact but cited “free marketing” as his primary factor – to show the world the Edmonton (and Alberta) is safe and to help kick-start the tourism industry, when feasible.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Hold on a minute and I’ll find 50 comments from posters on this site about Kailer Yamamoto being a failure from this time last summer.

    Absolutely you would.

    I’ve said it before (as I do) but I think the organization itself helped give the fanbase some unreasonable expectations about Yamamoto’s development path and arrival time. Giving him NHL games in his draft plus 1 season (and even his draft plus 2) helped set some unreasonable timelines and made it seem that there wasn’t much progression between his draft plus 1 and 2 years.

    Those that were privileged enough to view his games in the AHL in 2018/19 were able to see that he was a dominant AHL player, even if his straight box-cars under-represented that position. Same with his AHL games this past season – he wasn’t at a PPG but he was a scoring chance creating machine, playing on the 2nd line with some middling offensive help. A massive driver at the AHL level.

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: And Bear as well.

    I fully acknowledge being one of those. I wouldn’t say I called him “a failure” but put him behind Jones and Lagesson. This was based on watching many of his games at the AHL level in 2018/19 – he hadn’t improved on the areas that he had issues with in his cup of coffee the previous year. He sure as heck improved over the summer – better conditioning in general was massive for his on-ice play.

  59. OriginalPouzar says:

    JOFA: This is true Al. However, Benson’s skating ability, or lack thereof, is a huge issue imo.Furthermore, Benson’s skating is not even on the same planet as Yamamoto’s.

    and Drai’s skating isn’t on the same planet as McDavid’s yet Drai had the better 2019/20 season……

    Terrible comparison, of course, but the point is that not being a plus skater or having plus edges, isn’t prohibitive of an NHL career. There are many productive top 6 and middle 6 players that aren’t great skaters.

  60. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    Dave Tippett talking Tyler Benson: “There’s some guys in the league who aren’t great skaters but they anticipate so well. Tyler has hockey smarts and that’ll be an advantage for him. There’s a difference between fast and quick. Quick is making 10-foot plays here and there, fast is if you’re getting caught and the puck turns over. That’s a 100-foot sprint, not a 10-foot blink. As a player, you have to realize not to put yourself in the situation. I think he’s smart enough to realize that,”

    https://edmontonsun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/oilers-top-forward-prospect-tyler-benson-is-ready-for-bigger-things

    Great quote bump!

    Benson’s first NHL point was a perfect example of the 10-foot play. A very talented pass.

  61. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: I think it’s difficult for an employer to tell people what to do when not executing the job itself. I think that’s good.

    They are in phase 4 though……..

    Maybe this was a point and the players negotiating said no to strict restrictions during camp.

    Could very well be and I get it but I don’t think its good enough if they want this to work.

    We’ve got players at liberty to do as they please in Nevada, Dallas, etc. and then fly to Edmonton the next day to join a bubble. Not good enough in my opinion.

  62. Reja says:

    JOFA: The Golden Seals! You?

    Alberta Oilers. I did like the seals uniforms how could you not cheer for Gilles Meloche and Dennis Maruk who scored 60 goals with the caps later on in his career which was no small feat.

  63. JOFA says:

    OriginalPouzar: and Drai’s skating isn’t on the same planet as McDavid’s yet Drai had the better 2019/20 season……

    Terrible comparison, of course, but the point is that not being a plus skater or having plus edges, isn’t prohibitive of an NHL career.There are many productive top 6 and middle 6 players that aren’t great skaters.

    But it sure seems to be moving in that direction no?

    OP you should NEVER EVER question my eye for skill. You’re talking to a person that had Bennett over Dre?

  64. JOFA says:

    Reja: Alberta Oilers. I did like the seals uniforms how could you not cheer for Gilles Meloche and Dennis Marukwho scored 60 goals with the caps later on in his career which was no small feat.

    Never heard of them?

  65. OriginalPouzar says:

    N64:
    OP, Did not hear the details but heard there will be some new AHL financial aspects in the proposed new CBA.

    That would be great – some financial transition provisions would be magnificent.

    They weren’t mentioned at all in the Friedman article I read.

    Where’d you hear?

  66. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    That last one is huge for me and, frankly, I’m highly disappointed.

    I don’t think players “being asked to stay home as much as possible” in the last week is enough.

    Shit, I think they should be happening now and I think Phase 3 (training camp) NEEDS to be a mandated home and rink quarantine – not a “stay home as much as you can” suggestion.

    I don’t think that goes far enough to try and get to the hubs COVID-free -in particular with those coming from “hotter zones”.

    Hopefully the players are very smart about this.

    I’ve lost a bit of confidence in this.

    I hope I’m wrong but I’m still saying 80% chance Gary and his henchmen won’t be able to pull this off. Somebody is going to sneak in Ally May late at night who unknowingly has the virus.

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    JOFA: But it sure seems to be moving in that direction no?

    OP you should NEVER EVER question my eye for skill. You’re talking to a person that had Bennett over Dre

    Ha ha – you could be right.

    Absolutely it doesn’t help and there is a trend to better skaters.

    We’ll see where it goes, maybe he does end up playing most of his career with the Red Bull München but, for now, I’m going to focus on his high hockey IQ, ability to make plays in small spaces and, from all accounts, very high end work ethic (Woody talked about it many times through the year).

  68. JOFA says:

    Marody 23 years old
    Height 6.00 weight 195
    84 points 91 gp
    .92/ppg AHL

    Benson 22 years old
    Height 6.00 weight 192
    105 points 120 gp
    .875/ppg AHL

    Weird no? Marody doesn’t have a future in the NHL. Benson does?

    But wait. Benson is still a better prospect because all of the development time lost due to injury:

    Benson 126 games
    2015-16 to 2017-18

    Marody 93 games
    2015-16 to 2017-18

    Someone better check the numbers. My abacus has been off lately.

  69. Reja says:

    JOFA: Never heard of them?

    That figures.

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    JOFA:
    Marody 23 years old
    Height 6.00 weight 195
    84 points 91 gp
    .92/ppg AHL

    Benson 22 years old
    Height 6.00 weight 192
    105 points 120 gp
    .875/ppg AHL

    Weird no? Marody doesn’t have a future in the NHL. Benson does

    But wait. Benson is still a better prospect because all of the development time lost due to injury:

    Benson 126 games2015-16 to 2017-18

    Marody 93 games
    2015-16 to 2017-18

    Someone better check the numbers. My abacus has been off lately.

    18 months age difference is a major factor when talking about 20-23 year old prospects

  71. Munny says:

    JOFA,

    So Cooper is 15 months older… the 33 games diff in AHL injuries means he got an extra half season from that too.

    We’re also not counting The Butler’s injuries in Junior, which significantly affected his development pace.

    Of course, it’s also about taking steps forward. Hopefully we know more halfway through next season (whenever that may be). I cheer for all our prospects, but from my living room sofa, Benson looks more likely to become an NHL regular… he seems to have more drive than Cooper, and I think that’s the difference maker, especially with tweener types.

  72. JOFA says:

    OriginalPouzar: 18 months age difference is a major factor when talking about 20-23 year old prospects

    Agreed. Age is definitely a factor. Is my abacus off? Or is yours?

  73. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar: They are in phase 4 though……..

    Maybe this was a point and the players negotiating said no to strict restrictions during camp.

    Could very well be and I get it but I don’t think its good enough if they want this to work.

    We’ve got players at liberty to do as they please in Nevada, Dallas, etc. and then fly to Edmonton the next day to join a bubble. Not good enough in my opinion.

    You can’t ask people to leave their families in June and see them in September, OP. Two months is unreasonable. MORE than two months? No, I don’t think so.

  74. Lowetide says:

    Jeremy Rutherford
    @jprutherford
    ·
    11m
    Sources: Blues cancel practices due to ‘multiple’ COVID-19 positive tests https://theathletic.com/1908888/2020/07/03/sources-blues-cancel-practices-due-to-multiple-covid-19-positive-tests/ #stlblues

  75. Munny says:

    Reja: I hope I’m wrong but I’m still saying 80%chance Gary and his henchmen won’t be able to pull this off. Somebody is going to sneak in Ally May late at night who unknowingly has the virus.

    *googles Ally May*

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    Blues have shut down their facilities for a few days due to multiple players testing positive.

    I’ve been unconcerned about cases at this stage as there are no restrictions on players and I’ve assumed that, once camp starts, stage 3, they’d be highly restricted.

    Given that is not going to be the case and there will really just be a “suggestion to stay home as much as possible” during the last week, I am concerned.

    We can’t have players just going about their lives in Dallas, Vegas, St. Louis, Phoenix, etc. and then hop on a plane to Edmonton the next day.

    Players out and about in society in these jurisdictions will bring the virus to Edmonton.

  77. JOFA says:

    Munny:
    JOFA,

    So Cooper is 15 months older… the 33 games diff in AHL injuries means he got an extra half season from that too.

    We’re also not counting The Butler’s injuries in Junior, which significantly affected his development pace.

    Of course, it’s also about taking steps forward.Hopefully we know more halfway through next season (whenever that may be).I cheer for all our prospects, but from my living room sofa, Benson looks more likely to become an NHL regular…he seems to have more drive than Cooper, and I think that’s the difference maker, especially with tweener types.

    Yes Sir. Benson definitely has more pro experience under his belt. When do we stop talking about Benson’s injury history? He’s played almost two full seasons of pro.

    The comparison was made because my perception is that most would consider Schremp to be one of our top forward prospects, yet Cooper gets no love? People have commented that skating could hold Cooper back, but skating won’t be an issue for Benson because of his smarts. Really?

    Add Benson to this list:

    Schremp
    Omark
    Lander
    Rattie

  78. JOFA says:

    Lowetide:
    Jeremy Rutherford
    @jprutherford
    ·
    11m
    Sources: Blues cancel practices due to ‘multiple’ COVID-19 positive tests https://theathletic.com/1908888/2020/07/03/sources-blues-cancel-practices-due-to-multiple-covid-19-positive-tests/ #stlblues

    Yikes. Well I guess it was expected. Will the league get to the finish line? The black aces may be more important than I thought.

  79. Munny says:

    JOFA: Add Benson to this list:

    Schremp
    Omark
    Lander
    Rattie

    I called both of them “tweener types”. I.e., they’re already on that list (again barring steps forward).

    I’m not sure about your first paragraph. I think it is pretty clear that Cooper has had far more development time, not Benson, as your para reads.

    Maybe it’s better to look at it another way… Benson has more pavement ahead of him before org patience runs out than does Cooper.

  80. Harpers Hair says:

    JOFA: Yikes. Well I guess it was expected. Will the league get to the finish line? The black aces may be more important than I thought.

    Depends where those Black Aces come from.

  81. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: You can’t ask people to leave their families in June and see them in September, OP. Two months is unreasonable. MORE than two months? No, I don’t think so.

    The military does it all the time, and the soldiers are doing it for the benefit of others, on dangerous precarious missions. In the NHL, the players would be doing it to benefit themselves.

    This is likely a one time extenuating circumstance requiring the sacrifice.

  82. Reja says:

    godot10: The military does it all the time, and the soldiers are doing it for the benefit of others, on dangerous precarious missions. In the NHL, the players would be doing it to benefit themselves.

    This is likely a one time extenuating circumstance requiring the sacrifice.

    Some Tradesman go to camps and work months on end with very few days off if it’s a emergency but I can guarantee you if they were 25 years old making millions of dollars they would say See Yaa…

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    JOFA: Yikes. Well I guess it was expected. Will the league get to the finish line? The black aces may be more important than I thought.

    Totally expected in my opinion.

    The players are at liberty to be out and about in St. Louis – being part of society – shopping, beaches, clubs, whatever.

    I anticipated that to be 100% restricted during the training camp phase, players restricted to home and rink but, alas, that won’t be the case and, while they are “being asked to stay home as much as possible” during the last week of camp – no restriction on Shea Theodore and Willy Karlsson heading out to the club in Vegas the night before they hope on the plane for Edmonton.

    Terrible!.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: The military does it all the time, and the soldiers are doing it for the benefit of others, on dangerous precarious missions. In the NHL, the players would be doing it to benefit themselves.

    This is likely a one time extenuating circumstance requiring the sacrifice.

    They are also doing it in stage 4 – no reason they can’t do it in stage 3.

    Shit, it should be extended to “close contact” persons as well.

    I mean, if the players want this to actually work.

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Some Tradesman go to camps and work months on end with very few days off if it’s a emergency but I can guarantee you if they were 25 years old making millions of dollars they would say See Yaa…

    Its a little more involved than that.

    The players are getting an absolute sweetheart of a financial deal in the extended CBA and transitional provisions for revenues.

    If the players don’t agree to come back to play or agree with only a certain level or restrictions that shuts it down then the entire house of cards comes crashing down. It will cost the players huge in the short, medium and, probably, long term.

    The players, as a group, should be massively incentivized to ensure they can complete this post-season.

    Not to mention the increased Playoff Fund to $36M for this year (almost double what it was originally set at).

  86. €√¥£€^$ says:

    Benson will get his opportunities given his draft position, his Edmonton roots and his pre-junior career promise. What he has, above the Schremps and the Ratties is his drive and work ethic.

    He’ll be an NHL regular in 2 years. We wait.

  87. Pescador says:

    Lowetide:
    Jeremy Rutherford
    @jprutherford
    ·
    11m
    Sources: Blues cancel practices due to ‘multiple’ COVID-19 positive tests https://theathletic.com/1908888/2020/07/03/sources-blues-cancel-practices-due-to-multiple-covid-19-positive-tests/ #stlblues

    Waiting to hear about Tampa & FP,
    Stars, Coyotes….
    Yikes

  88. Lowetide says:

    godot10: The military does it all the time, and the soldiers are doing it for the benefit of others, on dangerous precarious missions. In the NHL, the players would be doing it to benefit themselves.

    This is likely a one time extenuating circumstance requiring the sacrifice.

    The military and the NHL are not similar.

  89. Pescador says:

    godot10: The military does it all the time, and the soldiers are doing it for the benefit of others, on dangerous precarious missions. In the NHL, the players would be doing it to benefit themselves.

    This is likely a one time extenuating circumstance requiring the sacrifice.

    Yep, lots of people travel abroad for work.
    My good friend travels to Iraq & Africa regularly for oilfield.
    Works exactly 6 months per year, 6 months off, can’t be easy but that’s the job

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    €√¥£€^$:
    Benson will get his opportunities given his draft position, his Edmonton roots and his pre-junior career promise.What he has, above the Schremps and the Ratties is his drive and work ethic.

    He’ll be an NHL regular in 2 years.We wait.

    I agree he will get his opportunities but they will also be based on his wonderful rookie pro season and the signs he did show in the NHL.

    Absolutely, huge work ethic on this player from all accounts.

    I see him as an NHL regular as well – question is middle six or does he have a legit top 6 future.

    Time will tell.

  91. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Its a little more involved than that.

    The players are getting an absolute sweetheart of a financial deal in the extended CBA and transitional provisions for revenues.

    If the players don’t agree to come back to play or agree with only a certain level or restrictions that shuts it down then the entire house of cards comes crashing down. It will cost the players huge in the short, medium and, probably, long term.

    The players, as a group, should be massively incentivized to ensure they can complete this post-season.

    Not to mention the increased Playoff Fund to $36M for this year (almost double what it was originally set at).

    It’s almost impossible too cage a bunch of hormone filled hound dogs who have bank accounts that start with 7 or 8 numbers. we shall see.

  92. Pescador says:

    Lowetide: The military and the NHL are not similar.

    This is 100% true,
    What about NHLer’s that play in one city but their wife & kids live in another?
    2 months apart seems normal to me.
    Others wouldn’t walk across the street without their family.
    I would leave mine behind,
    Especially if I was talented enough to play pro hockey.
    I can also see why collectively the players association would vote against it.
    I’m glad that they have that rite.

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: The military and the NHL are not similar.

    Agreed – not even a little.

    With that said, they are “doing it” for stage 4 and, in my opinion, it needs to be done for stage 3.

    Sure, players won’t like restrictions for an extra two weeks but given how sweet of a financial deal the RTP/CBA extension and transitional provision are for them, one would think they could agree to suck it up at home for an extra two weeks.

  94. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: The military and the NHL are not similar.

    You said “You can’t ask people”. I was just pointing out ,that some people are asked all the time, sometimes several times over, where there is no personal benefit and enormous risk.

    The players have an enormous stake in this. It is not self-sacrifice. They will be doing it for their own collective benefit.

    And they individually will have the right to opt out.

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: You said “You can’t ask people”.I was just pointing out ,that some people are asked all the time, sometimes several times over, where there is no personal benefit and enormous risk.

    The players have an enormous stake in this.It is not self-sacrifice.They will be doing it for their own collective benefit.

    And they individually will have the right to opt out.

    Agreed!

    Players should be, essentially, staying home right now, in particular in places like Phoenix, Vegas, St. Louis, etc.

    It should be mandated for the Stage 3.

    Of course, the players wouldn’t like it but they should accept it and comply in order to give this thing a real shot – its a massive win for them if they can get er’ done.

  96. JOFA says:

    Munny: jurisdictions

    From the organization’s standpoint, I definitely agree that Benson has more perceived “pavement” ahead of him. My argument is they are not that different, but they appear to be valued on opposite sides of the spectrum.

    I don’t think it’s clear at all that Marody has had more development time. Benson has played more games than Marody since turning pro in 2017.
    Benson – 127 gp
    Marody – 97 gp

    In addition to that, the same year they both turned pro both players played the follwing:

    Benson played – 58 games in the dub
    Marody played – 40 games in college

    Benson has played in 185 games since 2017-18
    Marody has played in 137 games since 2017-18

    *A 48 game difference since the start of the 2017-2018 season

  97. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Just a reminder: 15% of NHLers are 2nd round picks. Yeah cheer for Benson, Lavoie, McLeod, but also easier to cheer for them if there are not unreasonbale expectations put on them

    – It’s probable they don’t make it. It’s a massive gift to the team going forward if one or more of the 85% chance of not making it 2nd rounders do. Don’t count on it, and you will be happier IMO

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Just a reminder: 15% of NHLers are 2nd round picks.Yeah cheer for Benson, Lavoie, McLeod,but also easier to cheer for them if there are not unreasonbale expectations put on them

    – It’s probable they don’t make it.It’s a massive gift to the team going forward if one or more of the 85% chance of not making it 2nd rounders do.Don’t count on it, and you will be happier IMO

    This is a valid point but I would like to add that they were all high round second picks – all in the top 10 of the 2nd round and Benson the 2nd pick of the second round. I would anticipate materially more 30-40 drafts than 50-60 make it?

    Also, Benson was a first round pedigree pick that fell due to major injuries and then proceeded to have a huge rookie pro season at 20 that expanded expectations.

    Lavoie was also projected to go 1st round generally.

    To be fair to the community, I don’t think anyone is projected McLeod in the top 6 and most thing Benson will be a middle six or bottom 6 guy.

  99. Lowetide says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Just a reminder: 15% of NHLers are 2nd round picks.Yeah cheer for Benson, Lavoie, McLeod,but also easier to cheer for them if there are not unreasonbale expectations put on them

    – It’s probable they don’t make it.It’s a massive gift to the team going forward if one or more of the 85% chance of not making it 2nd rounders do.Don’t count on it, and you will be happier IMO

    Very true. Benson is the SUCCESS in the decade of drafted forwards, no matter what happens from here.

  100. Lowetide says:

    JOFA: From the organization’s standpoint, I definitely agree that Benson has more perceived “pavement” ahead of him. My argument is they are not that different, but they appear to be valued on opposite sides of the spectrum.

    The two big differences between the two are:

    1. Marody’s impact offensively appears to be greater than Benson’s and
    2. Marody’s injury had a massive impact on his career after turning pro. Players lose that NHL window over injuries just like that one.

  101. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    OriginalPouzar: This is a valid point but I would like to add that they were all high round second picks – all in the top 10 of the 2nd round and Benson the 2nd pick of the second round. I would anticipate materially more 30-40 drafts than 50-60 make it?

    – Nope: I get how reflex be “higher up in the 2nd = greater chance of making it” Math does not bear this out. There are many articles and math that have mapped this out. But you know this

    – It’s highly unlikely that any make an impact for the Oil (i.e great than Jar). But if one or more does become better than Jar, it makes a massive difference to the team. But 1-3 years away

    – Sure replacement level Jar type is a good hope

  102. JOFA says:

    Lowetide: The two big differences between the two are:

    1. Marody’s impact offensively appears to be greater than Benson’s and
    2. Marody’s injury had a massive impact on his career after turning pro. Players lose that NHL window over injuries just like that one.

    “There’s a lot to like about him, but as is the case with so many prospects, it will come down to luck and timing.”

    -LT

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Nope: I get how reflex be “higher up in the 2nd = greater chance of making it”Math does not bear this out.There are many articles and math that have mapped this out.But you know this

    – It’s highly unlikely that any make an impact for the Oil (i.e great than Jar).But if one or more does become better than Jar, it makes a massive difference to the team.But 1-3 years away

    – Sure replacement level Jar type is a good hope

    Nope, I did not know this – as I said in my post “I imagine…..” – if I imagined wrong, so be it.

    Each of the three could very well be more successful than Khaira and I would suggest that Benson and McLeod are both WAY ahead of were JJ was after his 1st and 2nd years of pro and are both treding to have better NHL careers.

  104. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Nope, I did not know this – as I said in my post “I imagine…..” – if I imagined wrong, so be it.

    Each of the three could very well be more successful than Khaira and I would suggest that Benson and McLeod are both WAY ahead of were JJ was after his 1st and 2nd years of pro and are both treding to have better NHL careers.

    Why do some folks want to see Benson fail they haven’t even watched him play but somebody said he has slow boots so he’s a loser prospect. It’s not Benson’s fault Oilers picked him over DeBrincat these folks should quit pouting and get over it.

  105. jp says:

    Pescador:
    Waiting to hear about Tampa & FP,
    Stars, Coyotes….
    Yikes

    Do many of the players actually live in those cities though? (think about how few Oilers were in Edmonton until this week).

    I wonder if teams with more players from New England might be the concern (new cases aren’t so high but they’re still higher than most/all of Canada). And honestly, Sweden may have the most per capita cases currently of places where players are spending their time (I of course don’t actually know where players are spending their time).

    I’m slightly concerned about this as it relates to the Oilers (only slightly).

  106. jp says:

    JOFA:

    Marody 23 years old
    Height 6.00 weight 195
    84 points 91 gp
    .92/ppg AHL

    Benson 22 years old
    Height 6.00 weight 192
    105 points 120 gp
    .875/ppg AHL

    Weird no? Marody doesn’t have a future in the NHL. Benson does?

    But wait. Benson is still a better prospect because all of the development time lost due to injury:
    Benson 126 games
    2015-16 to 2017-18
    Marody 93 games
    2015-16 to 2017-18

    Someone better check the numbers. My abacus has been off lately.

    Your dislike of Benson truly is odd. Is there a personal connection?

  107. JimmyV1965 says:

    Hello.

  108. jp says:

    Melvis:
    I came across this the other day. Some might find it of interest.

    Do empty stadiums affect outcomes? The data says yes.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/sports/soccer/soccer-without-fans-germany-data.html

    That’s really interesting.

    I don’t like it, but it is interesting and potentially relevant.

  109. Munny says:

    JOFA: From the organization’s standpoint, I definitely agree that Benson has more perceived “pavement” ahead of him. My argument is they are not that different, but they appear to be valued on opposite sides of the spectrum.

    I don’t think it’s clear at all that Marody has had more development time. Benson has played more games than Marody since turning pro in 2017.
    Benson – 127 gp
    Marody – 97 gp

    In addition to that, the same year they both turned pro both players played the follwing:

    Benson played – 58 games in the dub
    Marody played – 40 games in college

    Benson has played in 185 games since 2017-18
    Marody has played in 137 games since 2017-18

    *A 48 game difference since the start of the 2017-2018 season

    Sorry, I did miss that. Been slowly getting my brain back into hockey after a 5 week hiatus.

    Forgot that Benson took the extra year of Junior (which would’ve been a better way of making my point per that part of the development).

    As noted above, the timing of Cooper’s injury is far worse, no doubt. A short or perhps non-existent AHL season is no help to his cause either.

    At the end of the day, either player has me convinced at this point, but if I was making bets my money would be on Benson. The age difference is enough to sway me to that side of the equation, but it’s more than that. The drive too. Now Cooper hasn’t had the opportunity to come back from the level of injury adversity Tyler has, but he’ll get it next season. I’m very curious to see what he does with it.

    Hearing about the levels of 97’s workouts,I hope the likes of hopefuls like Benson and Marody are matching his efforts. No excuse for not working on fitness and fundamentals during this long AHL off-season.

  110. jp says:

    ArmchairGM: I wouldn’t be surprised if Cooper Marody was the one to surprise if given a chance. If he’s 100% he’s a pretty good hockey player.

    I’ll second that.

    I think i’d give him a better chance of contributing than anyone who played less than 30 NHL games this season.
    (partly because he’s a good hockey player, partly because Khaira and Haas are what’s ahead of him)

  111. hunter1909 says:

    Fantastic to see Oilers fans arguing which of KH’s players will turn up ready to blow the doors off.

    KH makes it easy for individual players to work hard and succeed. Whether Marody or Benson or whichever new additions turn up ready to win, the future appears workable.

  112. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Why do some folks want to see Benson fail they haven’t evenwatched him play but somebody said he has slow boots so he’s a loser prospect. It’s not Benson’s fault Oilers picked him over DeBrincat these folks should quit pouting and get over it.

    No Oiler fan “wants to see him fail” – some have an opinion that he lacks certain attributes to make it in the NHL – that doesn’t mean they don’t want him to make it.

  113. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    Nice update from Lebrun on what players will vote on:

    https://theathletic.com/1909008/2020/07/03/all-the-details-of-the-current-framework-for-the-nhls-new-cba-agreement/?source=twittered

    That was a great piece last night but I read it 4 hours prior in Friedman’s piece (as summarized in this thread) – bullet points mentioned were identical.

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: Do many of the players actually live in those cities though? (think about how few Oilers were in Edmonton until this week).

    I wonder if teams with more players from New England might be the concern (new cases aren’t so high but they’re still higher than most/all of Canada). And honestly, Sweden may have the most per capita cases currently of places where players are spending their time (I of course don’t actually know where players are spending their time).

    I’m slightly concerned about this as it relates to the Oilers (only slightly).

    They may not live in those cities generally but they will be back there now preparing for and during camp.

    Hall and OEL walking around Phoenix

    Tarasenko and Pieterangelo bumping in St. Louis.

    Stone and Nylander heading out in Vegas

    Then, boom, next day – on a plane to Edmonton.

  115. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: No Oiler fan “wants to see him fail” – some have an opinion that he lacks certain attributes to make it in the NHL – that doesn’t mean they don’t want him to make it.

    I’m tired of hyped up prospects who then go on to bust. Edmonton Oilers pre KH were in charge of writing the playbook.

  116. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: I’ll second that.

    I think i’d give him a better chance of contributing than anyone who played less than 30 NHL games this season.
    (partly because he’s a good hockey player, partly because Khaira and Haas are what’s ahead of him)

    I’d give that “award” to Evan Bouchard, maybe even Willie Lagesson, but I do agree that Marody has a chance if he is truly healthy and dedicated himself to improving where he needs to.

  117. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar: That was a great piece last night but I read it 4 hours prior in Friedman’s piece (as summarized in this thread) – bullet points mentioned were identical.

    I hope you can appreciate that I often pass along things for the group. If someone has read it in another form, previous to my posting it, that’s a risk I’m willing to take for the greater good.

  118. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: They may not live in those cities generally but they will be back there now preparing for and during camp.

    Hall and OEL walking around Phoenix

    Tarasenko and Pieterangelo bumping in St. Louis.

    Stone and Nylander heading out in Vegas

    Then, boom, next day – on a plane to Edmonton.

    Yes some of the players are out and about certainly. Are you speculating on Hall, Tarasenko, Stone etc though? Or are they on instagram posting about heading out in Vegas? (and what is bumping?)

  119. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’d give that “award” to Evan Bouchard, maybe even Willie Lagesson, but I do agree that Marody has a chance if he is truly healthy and dedicated himself to improving where he needs to.

    I’d agree for next season but Bouchard/Lagesson are 9 and 10 on the D depth chart. Marody is 6th with a guy who plays LW and a guy who scored 10 points standing between him and a lineup spot (Marody remains a very long shot to get games, of course)

  120. N64 says:

    Lowetide: I hope you can appreciate that I often pass along things for the group. If someone has read it in another form, previous to my posting it, that’s a risk I’m willing to take for the greater good.

    Of course reporters can have the same bullet points. How many different draft summaries are sources sharing with media?

    OP should be able to relate to posting before reading all prior posts ?

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca